Considerations on the "human nature"

[El Che]

A popular argument amongst right-wingers and capitalist suporters is the human nature argument. Is man inherently bad or good? is he inherently selfish or does society influence him that way? Because if you look at the problem form a philosophical point of view and come to the conclusion that man is inherently selfish, and cares more about him self and possibly those close to him than all the others, then in this case you would have to agree that capitalism, while fundamentaly wrong (from a moral point of view) is the system that goes to the encounter of man`s wishes and a nature of sorts. The question is, when we look around and see things we consider to be unjust and therefor opose and protest them are we atempting to change an unjust society that can be just, or are we atempting to change a "natural" soceity and force an unatural state of afairs where the big fish cant eat the little fish? Democracy is the system that ensures each soceity get the goverment they deserve. Is it reasonable to assume the powerfull will not abuse their power? is it reasonable to assume that if one where to start working for the comunity insead of for him self he would then work less? is it reasonable to assume the Isrealies not abuse there situation of power to create the nation they have wanted for so long?
By reason and logic, one can see what is wrong and what is right but we are more than reason and logic. We act more out afections, disafections, fears and all other emotions then out of reason or sense of justice.


For something to be natural means its apears naturaly and not as the result of a premeditated thought. Capitalism apeared naturaly over the course of history, maybe because it is inconformity with his selfish nature (is it?), if this is the case then the conclusion you arrive at is that man deserves capitalism and all the misery it brings.

[booga]

i believe human nature to be not so complex only broad.
one issue of human nature is that it cannot be defined by only one man only by the man who exists in its fortitude. one must considered the "elements" as well.

i believe there are more good men than bad, yet the bad could hold more influence or power through greed and evil only because as humans we have not evolved into a full understanding of the "human nature". Instincts play a vital role and are a permenant trait for survival. good points you make...these thoughts seem to ponder when one is searching for purpose.

[Kez]

Me thinks the following:
That If we were left alone in a group of five in a jungle , we would unite and continue the struggle that is life, however, if there are more people then groups will derive, and therefore lead to competition, leading to injustice, war ad unhappiness.

Our job is to show the world that in a bigger area and a bigger population, we can still co-operate and still live happily.
To do this we must eradicate capitalism, and the hell it has tied to it.

comrade kamo

[peaccenicked]

"To what extent some economists are misled by the Fetishism inherent in commodities, or by the objective appearance of the social characteristics of labour, is shown, amongst other ways, by the dull and tedious quarrel over the part played by Nature in the formation of exchange-value. Since exchange-value is a definite social manner of expressing the amount of labour bestowed upon an object, Nature has no more to do with it, than it has in fixing the course of exchange."
To consider what Marx found dull and tedious, the platitdes on 'human nature' we hear ad nauseum.
I have become confrontational(surprise!), if that is your human nature keep it to yourself. you don't want anybody else to catch it.
It tends to work as a conversation stopper.

[El Che]

Maybe i am exeptionaly dumb today Peacenicked but i dont think i understood your point.
In any case i think we all agree there is some kind of human nature... Caracteristics that we all have and similar reactions when faced with similar situations. For example, when given absolute power 95% of people will be corrupted. If that were true then one could say man is easily currupted by power and that is in his nature. If we are even to being to discuss this the frist thing that is required is to agree or agree to disagree on wheather or not there is such a thing as "human nature".

[Dreadnaht1]

I feel that man's nature in our society is that of greedy. It is only through this society, however, that feed's his desire to get as much money as possible. If our society, especially that of U$A's society were to change drastically then greed would not be so great. So while man is naturally greedy in society this nature can also be overcome by intelligence and love.

-Dread

[peaccenicked]

History makes people. people make history.
nature controls limitations
We want to control nature even our own
This part of ourselves Frued calls 'the superego'
When people tell me what human nature is like, I want to puke. The power is in our hands to make this world
a safe peaceful place where human nature is truly free.
There aspects of humanity that covered by pyschologists
and various social theorists. All of it is human nature of a certain time under certain cultural conditions.
People, usually small c conservatives use human nature as a comfort. saying to themselves.'If they are all like that I am not going to lift a finger to help them. What do they deserve? Nothing or What they get' Even some feminists I have met go on like this. I say to them how can you fight misogyny and be a misanthropist at the same time. When people talk to me about human nature it is usually a sigh of despair at the world which they have boiled down to hopeless nightmare.
The 95% figure seems unreasonable. I think a union of the world top rich should try to corrupt the human race,
with healthy food, decent housing, education etc
It is only workers at the base of Imperialism. Like the US and Britain who know anything of this 'corruption'
Lenin talked of the bourgeoified working class.
'human nature' platitudes tend to boil life down to moral
indefinites, and undermines the class content of any analysis of a given political situation.