Che Guevara, yes, the one who killed people.

[Kurai Tsuki]

I used to think that the majority of mainstream America simply did not know who Che Guevara was, now I've seen that there are those who do. But when I consider their perception of him I think it would be better if they didn’t in the first place. The typical liberal or right-wing thought process seems to be “Che Guevara- he killed people.”

There is no denying that.

The first person that Che Guevara killed was in the Cuban Revolutionary War; this makes since, as Che was a revolutionary soldier. There were people whom Che had executed or had other people execute in this war, but these were people who had individually committed an unjustifiable act; such as commanders who participated in torture or rape. In fact, when commanders were captured who had not done anything to hurt the population, he would simply release them. Then there is the act for which he was notorious, having 600 of Fulgencio Batista’s henchmen executed. Remember that these were men who had worked closely with a dictator. After WW2 many Nazi government officers and commanders were executed, why should Che have taken a different path during the Cuban revolution? Also, Che had personally witnessed the fall of Guatemala’s revolutionary government at the hands of a coup led by officials of the old government who were allowed to go free; Che cared too much about the fate of Cuba’s new revolutionary government to allow the same thing to happen there.

And so it can be seen that Che Guevara only killed people when it was necessary or absolutely justified, and when it was not he simply let the prisoners go free.

:ph34r: Hippie Boy:ph34r:

This text was originally written after I had a conversation with a hippie acquaintance (after noticing a Che patch on his jacket) who said, referring to Che, that he could never have as a role model somebody who killed people. At the time I tried to reason that the oppressed cannot expect to overthrow a dictatorship without the use of violence, but of course he brought up Gandhi, the hippie poster-boy. The mention that many of Gandhi’s own protestors got shot made little impact on the hippie, so I left it alone.

On another day I commented that for a nonviolent person he seemed to have many items on his jacket that implied military themes, like a star button and of course the Che patch. I was just saying it in an offhanded way but apparently it made him think. A week later (this week) he told me that he thinks that there are cases where violence serves a useful purpose. I told him about this post and he agreed with everything in it, he even said that in the case of the Batista henchmen executed it would have been dangerous to keep him alive.

[che's long lost daughter]

And we already know that.

[Monty Cantsin]

"And we already know that. " i hope you didn’t mean that in a nasty way.


and for the thread starter i know what your geting at, it pisses me off to.

[che's long lost daughter]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 07:52 AM
"And we already know that. " i hope you didn’t mean that in a nasty way.


and for the thread starter i know what your geting at, it pisses me off to.
Of course, I did not mean in a nasty way.

[Monty Cantsin]

ok good cos thats how i read it.

[Hiero]

This week when i told me history teacher about a movie beeing made about che he said in a laughing tone as most of the converstation went, that it would be more rubrish. We then had a debate wether che was just a thug or revolutionary, all up he didnt care if i thought his murders were justified or not since he teachers modern, ancient and a few other periods in history he has read all the murderous men in history (justified or not).

But anyway i see what your gettinmg at im sick of all these hippie like people wearing che t-shirts and being all pacifist, and here is was what i advise to use when defending che's actions.

If one person in time of war is risking peace or defending or is a exploiter of mankind and unwilling to surrender all power then that person is no freind of humankind. So if it cant not accept demands or imprisonment then they the must die in battle, so must his contacts who may revenge his death. This is fair an all good and has been done through out history WWII as Kurai_Tsuki has stated above, and with religous terriost. But what do numbers matter, if one man does this he must die same as another and another which may rise to the 600 in che case or even higher.

Now to the extreme pacifests. I tend to agree that angry cant be beaten by arms, but class war can. So there cant be peace while there is socio-economic class and arms should be used were needed

[communist_comrade]

hey,


If che and his comrades did'nt shoot anyone it wouldnt really have been a war then ? ...it also pisses me off the way people wear a che-shirt when they no nothing about him.

[Take the Power back]

Of the very few people I've talked to who have an understanding of who Che was, I do not think that any of them underminded the fact that he killed, and had people killed. It's just not a major factor when talking about Ernesto Guevara as a person, and not his exploits on the field of battle.

[Rasta Sapian]

Alexander the Great, was a butcher on and off the battle field, he claimed to have been derived from both greek gods, and pharoh's from egypt.

As a king he expanded the macedonian empire all the way to India, making himself the new king of asia!

Maybe we should start calling Che, "Che the Great!" ya dig? :huh:

peace yall

[SittingBull47]

Yea, the che-shirt wearers are commonly just hippies that have no idea about the passionate violence he committed in the name of revolution. Some call him psychotic, a murderer, etc. He was true to his convictions and he said himself he would use any means possible to carry the revolution. He knew his duty might call for revolutionary justice.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 21 2004, 09:44 PM
Alexander the Great, was a butcher on and off the battle field, he claimed to have been derived from both greek gods, and pharoh's from egypt.

As a king he expanded the macedonian empire all the way to India, making himself the new king of asia!

Maybe we should start calling Che, "Che the Great!" ya dig? :huh:

peace yall
If Che were anything like Alexander the Great then I would not be posting on a website dedicated to him. Alexander the Great was an imperialist who invaded the Middle East and among many other things invaded the capital of ancient Iran (Persia was a name that the Greeks gave to it), Percepolis. Then while he was drunk on the night after the invasion burned down the city. As an Arab and an anti-imperialist I just can’t find it in myself to be a fan of him. If I did then I might as well become a fan of Caesar or Napoleon.

I do however think giving Che a title that would signify his deeds would not be a bad idea, only his name already does that, as Che was not his original name but a title given to him by the members of the July 26’th movement. So if he were to be given a title then the word speaker might have to avoid saying Che, and maybe just say Ernesto the Great or Guevara the Great.

I myself have a t-shirt of Che with a halo, implying that he was some kind of saint.

[Heesh]

Che did shoot deserters and government informers as well though i think that was necessary.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 02:25 AM
Che did shoot deserters and government informers as well though i think that was necessary.
I aggree with that. The July 26'th Movement was a guerilla army that was joined completely by choice, but once people inlisted it was understandable that they should be expected to uphold their responsibilities and be trustworthy.

[nz revolution]

What is worse is crappy social democrats wearing and selling Che t-shirts, and shirts with hammer and sickles on them, and the red star.

We have a party here in NZ who when in parliament totally toed the capitalist line, voted for war on afghanistan, went through a power struggle, split into two parties, mildly different from each other. Still selling the left-wing symbols.

Even though I am friends with them, I still let them know that what they are doing is false advertising and falsely stating their party's principles.

Cheer

ps Hippies kill people with their stupidity. Also bore people to tears, thus causing suicide.

[jacobthehun]

Hi i just joined and i know a little bit about Che would someone be able to tell me more about him
thx

[Intifada]

Hi i just joined and i know a little bit about Che would someone be able to tell me more about him
thx

welcome to the site comrade!

just look around the place for info about che. this is a site dedicated to him so there is a lot of stuff about him right here.

[SittingBull47]

indeed. Welcome.

you can go to www.chahasta.narod.ru to learn some more about our revolutionary, and pretty much just anywhere on google, but chehasta and che-lives are faster.

[Dune Dx]

As long as you know about Che and you support what he did there is no problem wearing a t shirt. :D
Its only dam hippies that dont know who he is are the problem :angry:

[mia wallace]

about che killing - he's killed only the people he thoght it is necessary to be killed for various reasons (for example if he thought they were a threat to the society, ...) and the rest he would simply let go. i consider myself kinda pacifist, but more i study communism and society we live in, more i believe there's not any other way but the armed revolution.

bout the people wearing che shirts:
i also hate it when someone's wearing an image of this great man and doesn't know anything about him. but then, i consider it as my duty to educate that person about the man on the image he's wearing. in the end, i first found out bout che just because of that popular image and now i consider myself a commie :)

[insurgency03]

I think that Che wasnt afraid to get his hands dirty in the ways of combat. We killed tons of commanders throughout wars( we had 2 watch Uday and Quesays bullet riddled bodys on tv time after time after time) He was overall a very intelligent, strong, and full of ideal, more than most revolutionaries ive ever learned about( much more at least by 100 times than George washington)

[Hiero]

Originally posted by mia [email protected] 24 2004, 08:50 PM
i first found out bout che just because of that popular image and now i consider myself a commie
Yeah me to.

[mia wallace]

don't get me wrong - when i said che killed only the people he thought it was necessary to kill, i ment on mass executions, not on the be battles.

[Rasta Sapian]

Originally posted by Kurai_Tsuki+Mar 22 2004, 01:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kurai_Tsuki @ Mar 22 2004, 01:04 AM)
Rasta [email protected] 21 2004, 09:44 PM
Alexander the Great, was a butcher on and off the battle field, he claimed to have been derived from both greek gods, and pharoh&#39;s from egypt.

As a king he expanded the macedonian empire all the way to India, making himself the new king of asia&#33;

Maybe we should start calling Che, "Che the Great&#33;" ya dig? :huh:

peace yall
If Che were anything like Alexander the Great then I would not be posting on a website dedicated to him. Alexander the Great was an imperialist who invaded the Middle East and among many other things invaded the capital of ancient Iran (Persia was a name that the Greeks gave to it), Percepolis. Then while he was drunk on the night after the invasion burned down the city. As an Arab and an anti-imperialist I just can’t find it in myself to be a fan of him. If I did then I might as well become a fan of Caesar or Napoleon.

I do however think giving Che a title that would signify his deeds would not be a bad idea, only his name already does that, as Che was not his original name but a title given to him by the members of the July 26’th movement. So if he were to be given a title then the word speaker might have to avoid saying Che, and maybe just say Ernesto the Great or Guevara the Great.

I myself have a t-shirt of Che with a halo, implying that he was some kind of saint. [/b]
All I have is an old barret my folks brought me back from cuba, the red star is an amazing symbol that I almost always associate with Che&#33;

He is one of the more recent revolutionaries, and I have no problem calling him either St. Che or Guevara the great, either way your right he definatly does have a name for himself, and rightly so&#33;

peace yall

[Nas]

if you could make an impact, if you could change the system , i mean isnt that worth living for? isnt that worth fighting for? isnt that worth dying for?

[Nas]

if you could only make an impact, if you could change the system , i mean isnt that worth living for? isnt that worth fighting for? isnt that worth dying for?

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 05:11 AM
if you could only make an impact, if you could change the system , i mean isnt that worth living for? isnt that worth fighting for? isnt that worth dying for?
Isn&#39;t it worth coming up with an original phrase instead of a cliche?

[Kurai Tsuki]

Yeah i dig rasta, St Guevara has definately made a name for himself :D I wonder how long it will be before someone with his abilities, knowledge and commitment (a rare combination) becomes a dissident.