America's motive

[mentalbunny]

It's been bothering me, why the hell does America bother? Why the fuck do they seem so intent on fucking up the world?!!!! I don't get it!

Oh by the way, a link you may find interesting:

US revealed to be secretly funding opponents of Chavez from The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=500711)

[Eastside Revolt]

Why does America bother?

Because there is a constant struggle amongst the most powerful and their advisers. You see if it were merely their advisers, they would be much more isolationist. Since the people with the money actually do have some say, they let their personal values, and interests get in the way of their actual causes. When you think about it, if they had just told the oil companies to fuck off, things would be much better for the american's overall cause. Since they've toppled hussein (the only secular state in the middle east) thing are only gonna get worse for their overall cause in Palestine. Don't worry these people aren't that smart they keep detroying themselves with greed, untill we win.

It's sorta like a line from a Stevie Wonder song:

"My name is Secluded,
We live in a house the size of a matchbox
Roaches live with us wall to wall
You killed all my leaders
I don't even have to do nothing to you
You'll cause your own country to fall"

[Capitalist Imperial]

We are making the world better. America's interest and sphere of influence must be maintained and expanded, for the good of the american people and the people of the world.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 10:06 PM
It's been bothering me, why the hell does America bother? Why the fuck do they seem so intent on fucking up the world?!!!! I don't get it!

Oh by the way, a link you may find interesting:

US revealed to be secretly funding opponents of Chavez from The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=500711)
It's simple really.

I know I have bored you all with this before however it keeps springing up. I will try to be real brief.


To continue to extract surplus value from goods and commodities you have to lower the rates of constant and variable capital.


Federal minimum wage and minimum labour per production rates ensure that variable capital can only be lowered to a certain level.

The domestic free market dictates that constant capital can only fall as far as the the producer's Constant and Variable capital levels increased my whatever profit margin is acceptable.

Free market competition as well as the Sherman Anti-trust act of 1890 (US only) ensures that all competitors will continually lower their rate of profit to JUST ABOVE the combined totals of C and V to retain market share.

Set Federal inflation rates (usually near 3.5%) ensure that constant capital will continually INCREASE by at least the rate of inflation every year.

Now, if your profit level equals constant capital plus variable capital minus market value and the rate of constant capital will always INCREASE every year while the rate of profit will continually fall due to the above mention factors, it is necessary to LOWER C and V rates to retain surplus value.

How do you do this? Use a labour pool that you can pay a fraction of the domestic labour pool minimum cost and extract C from similar locations while selling the products domestically at the domestic market value.

It has nothing to do with "spreading yanqui freedom" as this kid above thinks. It's about maintaining the current economic platform for as long as there are countries to exploit.


I hope that helps Mentalbunny.

[Capitalist Imperial]

While RAF dazzled you all with what is really simple economics that applies to all nations and not just the USA, he fails to mention that exported jobs actually raise the level of the local population's economy, putting them in a better position than the were before benevolent US business arrived there.

No one is holding guns to these worker's heads. They are fighting tooth and nail to get what is considered a great job. It's all relative. American business helps local economies, it does not hurt them. This is the reality of the global marketplace.

And, as usal, you ill-informed scum are pretty ignorant in thinking that, like all of the world's problems, that it's "America's Fault". What a freaking cop-out, and naive at that.

Why don't you put dowen the rage against the machine CD that you bought with mommies credit card and pick up a copy of the new Ann Coulter book, and get a good dose of reality for once?

[Morpheus]

"we have about 50% of the world's wealth, but only 6.3% of its population. ... In this situation, we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity. ... To do so, we will have to dispense with all sentimentality and day-dreaming; and our attention will have to be concentrated everywhere on our immediate national objectives. ... We should cease to talk about vague and ...unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are then hampered by idealistic slogans, the better." - PPS23 by George Kenan, State Department Planning Staff, 1948

See also Vision 2020 (http://question-everything.mahost.org/Archive/vision_2020.pdf) (pdf format), NSC 68 (http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsc-hst/nsc-68.htm), National Security Strategy of the United States of America (http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html) and Rebuilding America's Defenses (http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf) (PDF).

The book What Uncle Sam Really Wants by Noam Chomsky is also a really good critique of US foreign policy that addresses this stuff, well worth reading. It's online at http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-contents.html You can also read my essays Roots of the Empire (http://question-everything.mahost.org/Socio-Politics/antibush.htm) and Anatomy of the American Empire (http://question-everything.mahost.org/Socio-Politics/American_Empire.html), both of which address this.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Since when did you give a rat's ass about the economy of other countries? You don't give a shit if their people eat, get medicine, or get massacred, but you care about the ecomony? American businuss does not help foriegn ecomonies, its glorified wage slavery. People working in other countries often times don't even make enough money to eat. There is no economic growth, these people aren't bringing any real money into their country. What it is doing is increaseing the level of dependancy of foriegn ecomonies on American businuss. If there were no such businusses, then their governments would be forced to get off their corrupt asses and implement collectivization and industrialization plans to force forward a strong socialist economy. Not only does that hurt foriegners, but it hurts us here at home as well. High paying manufacturing jobs are being lost overseas and are being replaced by low paying service jobs. It hurts us, it hurts them, and the capitalist laughs his way all the way to the bank. But buy all means, go dive back into your Ann Coulter book.

http://www.imageshack.us/img2/6315/dancing.gif

Jackass

[Loknar]

It's simple, we act out in our own interests just like every other nation does. We just happen to be at the top for now, in the future someone else will take our place and do t he same kind of shit we do.



btw, the richest continents in the world are South America and Africa, yet they seem to be the poorest while North America and western Europe reap it all. Why is this? I don’t know, I don’t give a damn to be honest, but don’t pin everything on America. The 3 oil tycoons are America, Netherlands and Britain.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

It's simple, we act out in our own interests just like every other nation does. We just happen to be at the top for now, in the future someone else will take our place and do t he same kind of shit we do.

Is that an admittion that Bush's hunt for WMDs is a load of shit?


btw, the richest continents in the world are South America and Africa, yet they seem to be the poorest while North America and western Europe reap it all. Why is this? I don’t know, I don’t give a damn to be honest, but don’t pin everything on America. The 3 oil tycoons are America, Netherlands and Britain.

While other comrades love to say that everything is America's fault, but I place the blame on that to mismanagement by the African govt. Rather then simply selling the land to foriegn capitalists and letting them mine it themselves, what they need to do is take their oil fields, gold mines, and gem mines from the hands of the foriegn capitalists by force and have government workers harvest it, and sell it to 1st world countries directly, and put the revenue back into society in the form of industrialization and collectivization development projects, and then focus on desperately needed social welfare programs once that is taken care of.

[SittingBull47]

try to change too many people to benefit us.

[Vinny Rafarino]

While RAF dazzled you all with what is really simple economics that applies to all nations and not just the USA, he fails to mention that exported jobs actually raise the level of the local population's economy, putting them in a better position than the were before benevolent US business arrived there.



I reckon you did not read the portion that stated "I will be brief". Typical move from the right.

I did not think I NEEDED to explain that these "simple economics" apply to the remaining capitalist economies as the thread in question was about THE USA. Learn to read.

You are correct son, the local pupolation's GDP will absolutely be increased. Eventually that third world nation will indeed be considered "first world". Guess what is next esse? Once that country can no longer supply the
USA with what it needs to extract surplu value the USA will move onto the next country. Sound familiar son? Just watch CNN for a spell.


No one is holding guns to these worker's heads. They are fighting tooth and nail to get what is considered a great job. It's all relative. American business helps local economies, it does not hurt them. This is the reality of the global marketplace.



And?



And, as usal, you ill-informed scum are pretty ignorant in thinking that, like all of the world's problems, that it's "America's Fault". What a freaking cop-out, and naive at that.


Are you really sure that's why you are angry my boy? Could it really be that the truth HURTS?



Why don't you put dowen the rage against the machine CD that you bought with mommies credit card and pick up a copy of the new Ann Coulter book, and get a good dose of reality for once?


I don't care for that band and I have my own credit cards thank you. In addition young man, Ann Coulter obviously suffers from severe delusions as well as depression and anxiety disorder. Dr. Suess is more realistic.

[mentalbunny]

Ah Comrade RAF, how could I forget the econonic necessity of expoitation and increasing your "empire" (for lack of a better word) in order to continue economic growth, which of course is sooooo important (*coughs*).

Morpheus thanks very much for the quote and those links, highly informative.

And of course I am aware that it is not only the USA which causes these problems, it is also the rest of the West and some of the governments of the victim countries, and the WTO and all that.

[Hiero]

Hey come on now dont you remeber that time the USA did that thing and it help that country.....oh wait im just making stuff up. Maybe when all the amrican right wing hicks are dead they might do something usefull.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Ah Comrade RAF, how could I forget the econonic necessity of expoitation and increasing your "empire" (for lack of a better word) in order to continue economic growth, which of course is sooooo important (*coughs*).



I'm not quite sure where your bitterness is coming from here. I explained to you why the CAPITALIST empire (you referred to it as MY empire for some odd reason) continues to exploit 3rd world nations.

How could you possibly blow off the importance of economic growth? Remember my dear, until we actually achieve communism, we will have still have to live under an economic platform. To dismiss the issue is just silly.

[mentalbunny]

Sorry comrade, I wasn't meaning to sound bitter, it was just that I'd forgotten all that stuff which I'd been told before, I wasn't meaning to get at you or anything.

[antieverything]

I think that the key reason for this specific case is being largely passed over despite being mentioned briefly.

This is one of those rare questions that can be adequatly answered in one word...that word being:

OIL

That word cannot be emphasized enough!

Venezuela is the largest non-Arab supplier to the United States. World oil production is soon to peak if it hasn't already. Oil is more important now than it ever was.

That is why we invaded Afghanistan. That is why we invaded Iraq. That is why we will soon invade Syria, Iran, and Saudi Arabia! The plans have been laid out since at least the 70s.

Oh, and Mentalbunny, empire is the best possible word!

[antieverything]

Anyway, these guys aren't stupid. Maintaining the current growth patterns isn't realistic and they know it. The goal is dominance when the shit hits the fan...regardless of your feelings on peak oil, current rates of growth are unsustainable and as we should all know, when growth rates fall depression ensues. When depressions occur, PEOPLE DIE!!!!

edit: by die, I mean the empire will be forced to keep itself alive through a constant war economy that dwarfs what we have now.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 17 2004, 12:56 AM
Why don't you put dowen the rage against the machine CD that you bought with mommies credit card and pick up a copy of the new Ann Coulter book, and get a good dose of reality for once?
hhahahahahaha Ann Coulter....... Why don't you go read Al Franken's book "Lies and The Lying Liars Who Tell Them, where he exposes Ann Coulter on all the incredible lies she tells in her book. Ann Coulter is a f'n idiot, everybody knows that. Enjoy reading!

[Misodoctakleidist]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 16 2004, 11:13 PM
We are making the world better. America's interest and sphere of influence must be maintained and expanded, for the good of the american people and the people of the world.
So why do think the american government want to 'make the world better?' What's their motive, are they just benevolent, helping people achieve 'freedom' out of the goodness of their hearts?