Announcement [Archive]

Edelweiss

14th January 2002, 21:33

This new forum is a result of the various capis and right-wingers who have infiltrated the community. So far they have been tolerated in all forums. But nearly every thread in the politics forum has turned into a general socialism vs. capitalism debate. This is a leftist community and I did not founded it for endless discussions with stupid right-wingers. But no one here is afaid of a discussion with the other side. So I decided to open this new forum with the support of most of the community.
That means that from now on this new forum will be the only one were right-wingers are tolerated. Posts from them in other forums will be ignored or deleted. Right-wingers who do not obey to this rule will be banned.
Current posters which will from now on only be tolerated in the new forum:
ImperialPower, Capitalist and HardcoreCommie
A few words to them: If you can accept this new rule, good. If not, FUCK OFF and never come back!

El Che

14th January 2002, 21:38

Hell yea!! GO Malte! =)

Moskitto

14th January 2002, 21:46

What about tomb?

Although he'd only post in any political forum if something really big happened like WTC attacks and he wanted to give his opinion.

Markxs

14th January 2002, 22:20

i think malte you should really watch out with this shit. you being on a power rush isnt helping at all, it scares ppl of ppl with the revolutionary potential. its to bad some ppl are blinded with money and power

(Edited by Markxs at 12:26 am on Jan. 15, 2002)

Valkyrie

14th January 2002, 22:31

:ph34r:

revolutionary spirit

14th January 2002, 22:40

concentrate all the right wingers in one area seems goond enough for me

PYROMANIAC

14th January 2002, 22:42

Welcome to Chairman Malte's forum!!! Where we promote the stereotypical image of the Stalinist Left!!
Punish the criminals, not free speech :)

LONG LIVE STALIN, HAHAHA

Your Wonderful Authortarian,

Pyro

Markxs

14th January 2002, 22:42

freedom of speech for everyone who agrees!!!!!

buy books here !!!!!!

PYROMANIAC

14th January 2002, 22:44

Please don't send us to the gulags Chairman Malte!!
Spare us anarchists!!!!!!

Markxs

14th January 2002, 22:45

hello its big brother time again

who will be voted out this week you can call and win this wonderfull che shirt with diamond eyes!!!

who will be the new mclaren? but first the commercials!

El Che

14th January 2002, 22:49

this is a leftist community if you dont like it fuck off.

PYROMANIAC

14th January 2002, 22:51

To El che: If this is a Leftist community shouldn't we practise what we preach?? ALLOW FREE SPEECH!!!!

Markxs

14th January 2002, 22:52

this is turning into a right wing community, we already got seperate rights, lets not tolerate this apartheid. ( does being member to the party ring a bell )

PYROMANIAC

14th January 2002, 22:54

MY #1 PET HATE IS AUTHORTARIANISM!!!!!!!
#2 RIGHTISM

El Che

14th January 2002, 22:57

Listen you two your starting to get on my nerves. I really like this place and as of late discution has bin impossible because every thread has bin sabotaged. These guys dont want to learn they dont even listen to whatever you say to them. If i was Malte i would BAN them all and probably ban both of you as well because if you cant understand that this is just a bb not a state and freedom of speech has nothing to do with anything then you can add anything of substancial to the debate.

Anyway shut up, they can still post there crap they just cant run trough the hole fucking forum sabotaging everything.

Markxs

14th January 2002, 23:07

when you cant say all you better say nothing.

i have something to add to this debate. i am not scared to get banned by your intimidations. and since when is banning ppl good for a debate?

reconsider before you loose all you want.

El Che

14th January 2002, 23:10

and since when is banning ppl good for a debate?

Why dont you take a wild guess Sherlock?

El Che

14th January 2002, 23:12

and since when is banning ppl good for a debate?

Why dont you take a wild guess Sherlock?

Markxs

14th January 2002, 23:17

i am not that ignorant that i call myselve wise or smart. to know anything is to know that you know nothing. (socrates ) its the only way you can stay humble to the ppl.

i still heard not argument that is a legal one. is there one reason .is it so hard that we cant deal with the truth that we dont now all. we are humans knowing all is imposible. but degrading yourselve to the capitalist level (which i did by insulting malte) is really bad for this forum.

no preferences just a revolutionary heart !

Edelweiss

14th January 2002, 23:33

Wtf do you want? The decision for the new forum has been backed by most of the active posters. It was a democratic decision. Like every leftist member with 50 posts or more you have access to the Commie Club, there was a long thread about the idea of creating the new forum, you could have said what you think about it instead of waiting til now and than attacking me for it. That's not very fair. You have a very vague idea of anarchism, who do you think decisions in an anarchist society are made? By throwing a coin?

Derar

14th January 2002, 23:36

I totally agree with malte .....
these guys piss me off with their stupid posts !!
when i came here i was expecting a leftist site , forum where i can discuss my thoughts with ppl that would understand ....... but didnt come here to see stupid rightwinger !! i see such ppl everyday in real life !!! which is enough !

Markxs

14th January 2002, 23:38

vague is not the same as clear. my views are clear. do what you want without hurting others. and we are right now we are doing to the capitalists what they would do to us thats very. USA ! if you arent with us you are against us !

so if you have a view which is not the view others have you are bad that sucks! hardcorecommie is not a capitalist nor a communist i think when we start banning ppl we already know which side they will turn to

(Edited by Markxs at 1:40 am on Jan. 15, 2002)

Markxs

14th January 2002, 23:47

descisiions in anarchy are made in a consensus which hurts nobody. this is defintly not the way it will go. besides the more respected members have no higher vote then the once with less posts. democracy based on inequality is fascism!

Dreadnaht1

14th January 2002, 23:49

I don't know if I concur with Malte's discision on this new forum but perhaps time will change my mind and then again it isn't my forum to be concurring with etc. Seems like we're putting them in a Zoo or something. Well I'm going to go feed the animals.

-Dread

Edelweiss

14th January 2002, 23:56

Markxs, you have no idea on what you talking about. I doubt that any anarchist group would accept right-wingers to join them....

Imperial Power

15th January 2002, 00:02

Quote: from Malte on 10:33 pm on Jan. 14, 2002
This new forum is a result of the various capis and right-wingers who have infiltrated the community. So far they have been tolerated in all forums. But nearly every thread in the politics forum has turned into a general socialism vs. capitalism debate. This is a leftist community and I did not founded it for endless discussions with stupid right-wingers. But no one here is afaid of a discussion with the other side. So I decided to open this new forum with the support of most of the community.
That means that from now on this new form will be the only one were right-wingers are tolerated. Posts from them in other forums will be ignored or deleted. Right-wingers who are not obey to this rule will be banned.
Current posters which will from no on only be tolerated in the new forum:
ImperialPower, Capitalist and HardcoreCommie
A few words to them: If you can accept this new rule, good. If not, FUCK OFF and never come back!

Tell us how you really feel. O and by the way in the terms of use it says no profanity.

Markxs

15th January 2002, 00:06

all anarchists would accept those ppl with views, thats what keeps them sharp. and members are interested so can get interested. like paris said if the ppl come to you its the easiest way

Moskitto

15th January 2002, 00:07

O and by the way in the terms of use it says no profanity.

Ah, but he's got the button that says...

No wait, it's a dropdown list that says Member Type: "Member" "Banned" "Admin" "Moderator"

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:09

Markxs you make no sense. And i think you just trying to draw atention to your self. I absolutly agree with this measure, this situation has gon on for far to long. Plus these forums arent run by anarchy, there run by dictatorship, and Malte dictates so shut the fuck up. If you want to discuss with capitalist and imperial power nock your self out but dont force me to put up with there ignorance and propaganda!! because i dont want to!! Nore do i want the threads i start to all turn into the same thing. One of them comes in with not a care in the world and just posts some propaganda and then everybody disregardes the thread and the issue of the thread and starts proving them wrong which does no good because they dont care. But the point is everything thing turns into the same uninteresting and pointless discution. And thats not what i am interested in now is it? people get feed up with that, there is a limit to someones patience! If we dont dont do something people are going to start leaving, those i want to hear form anyway. Malte ask everyone what they thought like he ALWAYS does so shut up.

Moskitto

15th January 2002, 00:13

Annother thing is, the no profanity rule is a default rule for Ikonboard and it isn't really enforced anyway.

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:19

Rules have change and i for one think its about time. As for profanity i think we are all grow ups here but some people do abuse (hint hint Kamo).

Markxs

15th January 2002, 00:19

he did not ask everybody did he imperialist power ? hardcore ?

if you like a place to chat amongst like minded why dont you go to the commie club or is that infected as well ?

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:22

your out of line markxs, i dont remember giving you any confidences.

Edelweiss

15th January 2002, 00:24

Quote: from Markxs on 1:06 am on Jan. 15, 2002
all anarchists would accept those ppl with views, thats what keeps them sharp. and members are interested so can get interested. like paris said if the ppl come to you its the easiest way

They CAN still come here and discuss with us in the new forum. And I still doubt that an anarchist group would accept right-wingers. There is probaply not a single one at all.

Valkyrie

15th January 2002, 00:25

I gotta wonder sometimes.

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:30

What the hell is wrong with you people. El Che- trying to pull rank on Markxs????

i want you to explain what that is supost to mean. This is really geting crazy, i dont know what you people have in that head of yours. Please explain your self Paris since your acusing me of "pulling ranks" what "rank" do i have? eh?

Moskitto

15th January 2002, 00:34

Yes it was me who brought Mclaren on here.

But I had no idea he'd be like that. He's normally a bit wierd but he doesn't normally act like that.

I think it's just he doesn't seem to go on internet communities very much so probably doesn't know what the basic borderlines are.

Tomb on the other hand does go on internet communities and he does know the boundries.

Valkyrie

15th January 2002, 00:35

not cool, man

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:36

who is Tomb?

Markxs

15th January 2002, 00:38

when you tell ppl to shut up you are using power and are therefore higher in rank. dont let the power get a grip on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Moskitto

15th January 2002, 00:39

he signed up and made 5 posts but didn't post any more. He doesn't like politics.

And I nearly hurt him when we were playing pool at his house.

I sort of couldn't hit my ball cos there were 2 of his in the way so i tried to chip it over and ended up flicking it off the table at him.

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:39

Paris you arent very smart if you havent figured out that the "ranks" dont mean anything. You are atacking me with no reason or fundamentation i dont apreciate that. When i sayed what i sayed it was in a personal sense and i stand by it. I am no different form any other member nore do i hold any especial position.

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:42

oh i have a power grip! oh ok well that explains it! silly stalinist me.what power?

Markxs

15th January 2002, 00:43

you better not ban ppl then! and dont use words like shut up. cause when ppl shut up you will be really in trouble.

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:45

ill say what i feel and what i think i should say.

Markxs

15th January 2002, 00:48

definition of power. a toold that ppl use when they cant with arguments full of shut ups, and lies like democratic votes, feeling better then someone because you know it all. i would say open up for other views we can even learn from capitalists. (anyway how we shouldnt debate we learned from them ). we learned also from them that power is a drug and its dangerous. ppl tend to forget their equality when things get messy. that are two valuable lessons we should all learn!

Markxs

15th January 2002, 00:50

you say what the capitalists want you to say. because they want us to fight amongst eachoter and forget our views at the same time. which i cant blame you fore because its not a shame to not know everything !

El Che

15th January 2002, 00:57

i still think you should shut up because i also think your full of shit.

Edelweiss

15th January 2002, 00:59

You are so ignorant Markxs. the capitalists can still come here, that's why I created the new forum. What you are saying makes no sense.

Markxs

15th January 2002, 01:01

the reason i reacted so heavily is because when i see good ppl like all of you, get caught by the arms of power i feel really fucked. i only want to make you see that banning ppl is not helping its only showing that we are a weak, and we are not only on the unity part . but lets not fight on their level. i hope we can post all together as some sort of friends. then the rev will be in our sight. the capitalist will either dissapear of become part of the ppl. all that counts is now and i dont let the rev go down and certainly not to an essential as freedom of speech. unite and fight. i think the rev has a place for both you and me at the same side el che !

Markxs

15th January 2002, 01:05

the capitalist are the ppl we fight for malte. all the ppl who are poor are potential capitalist. the capitalist will be the last we can convert but what if they could be the first > that would really make us strong.

El Che

15th January 2002, 01:10

look man i have nothing against you, its just my way of talking. Because i dont know what your talking about, i dont need to be saved for the "arms of power". What the hell? where did that come from. I just want to discuss in peace, it is a leftist community thats why i am here. If it becomes something else well then have a dice day because im off. Besides they can still post there "arguments" cant they? but they wont and ill tell you why: what they want is not to discuss but to disrupt. And thats why im ready to bet you that know they `ll just leave, because they cant disrupt anymore (thank god). Im sorry if i got exalted but all i want is some peace and quiet around here.

Markxs

15th January 2002, 01:19

its not becoming someting else it will be stronger and more united because we will ban the hypocrisy. not the hypocrite messengers.

you are disturbing peace with silence comrade. silence is when bad things happen and no one dares to break it. peace is when the capis either dont post anymore volunteerly or continue there poor arguments and personal attackes and we just ignore them. i think we can really safely ignore there personal arguments but we have to learn not to use them ourselves. or we fall right into their survival of the fittest. when ppl are bugging you the cruelst and best thing you can do is be nice to them that way they dont get power over you and they will learn to be a better person. we need this better person this educated men or women for the rev!

my revolutionary love to all of you ( dear capi's please open your eyes for it )

RedCeltic

15th January 2002, 02:44

What a very long pointless argument. As Vox had said during the debate about this in the Commie club.. .it's almost as if it's an open invitation for the right wingers to come in here. You are wrong about thinking we are now shipping them off to Siberia... it's more like we have now flung the doors open.

And... this isn't public property this is a BB on a web site that generates bills that need to be payed by Malte. So... it's not really public property... it's more like Malte's house... and if you came over to my house and I asked you kindly to smoke only in the Kitchen... would I be justifide to kick you out if I saw you smoking in the bedroom?

Also... we are no longer going to argue if they belong here or not... they have their space now. Malte isn't being a Fascist and banning them all... he's being democratic and allowing them to stay, and providing them a room for which they can play.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 9:51 pm on Jan. 14, 2002)

Markxs

15th January 2002, 02:50

it is public property. because there is no use for private property. besides its an illusion. property doesnt exist. its just moving around goods untill you die.

as for intelectual property which this message board is according to you. intelectual property is like not giving the aids medicine to africa and russia. the corporations have the right to that right? WRONG

RedCeltic

15th January 2002, 02:53

Good points about property there... but..

Well.. they are here to stay.. so why not give them a place to play?

(Edited by RedCeltic at 9:54 pm on Jan. 14, 2002)

Markxs

15th January 2002, 03:08

yes amongst us as equals. and once we will react friendly to their terror they have nothing to beat us with !

RedCeltic

15th January 2002, 03:11

Imperial Power is out calling up the capitalist troops right now... I think he's happy about it and is going to make the best of it. The room is soon to be flooded with American Conservitives waving the stars and stripes.

Markxs

15th January 2002, 03:20

lets get scared about more of those ppl who cant defend most what they say. i am not scared. fear is the only thing we should fear

RedCeltic

15th January 2002, 03:23

So you shouldn't have a problem with the forum then.. because the right wingers are now welcome and are going to use it for sure.

And BTW.... I am not going to avoid them... I think the forum is a good idea... and we need to show them that we are not afrade of them.

Markxs

15th January 2002, 03:28

you dont have to avoid them. stand up to them hit it were it hurts whatever. the most horribile weapon is your friendliness.

RedCeltic

15th January 2002, 03:52

That's good point Markxs... being open and friendly is powerful... rather than spouting out propaganda and negitivity. Anyway... we have been negitive to them in the past... and considered them as outsiders invading "our board" ( I agree with your point on pulic property)

Not any longer however... now they have their own room. Can't exactly say "Right wingers are not tolerated" when they have their own room now.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 10:53 pm on Jan. 14, 2002)

vox

15th January 2002, 05:16

Well then there now.

After reading through this thread, I have to wonder if it's the capitalists to blame for bringing down the level of discussion on this board. I would like to suggest that people do their dick-swinging elsewhere, please.

Now then, there is this:

"it is public property. because there is no use for private property. besides its an illusion. property doesnt exist. its just moving around goods untill you die.

"as for intelectual property which this message board is according to you. intelectual property is like not giving the aids medicine to africa and russia. the corporations have the right to that right? WRONG"

No, it isn't public property, and to suggest that is, I think, to not realize the social relations that capitalism entails, and failure to realize that leads to the sort of essentialist garbage spewed by right-wingers.

While it is a fine and good thing to discuss the notion of property in general, do not forget that this space is leased from the capitalists who own the Net, and they have to be paid. To make judgments about a world using social relations that DO NOT exist in that world borders on lunacy, no?

Perhaps you should get a site, set up a board and invite people to post, for free. You may then understand that free speech isn't so free.

This may not be the world we want, but it's the world we have. To turn away from that and Idealistically pronounce things to be public property, when Materially they are not, is to avoid the difficulty of not only changing the world, but living in it, as well.

vox

Valkyrie

15th January 2002, 05:34

:ph34r:

RedCeltic

15th January 2002, 05:38

lol... then don't swing your medephorical dick :)

vox

15th January 2002, 05:43

Quote: from Paris on 1:34 am on Jan. 15, 2002
I don't have a dick.

Good to know, but I didn't mean you, in particular. Regardless, the statement stands as metaphor, taking in to consideration the gender bias in power relevent to the Western world.

vox

Son of Scargill

15th January 2002, 09:12

Good move Malte.
And though I can understand the feelings of Markxs,Paris and Pyro,it is about time the capitalists damage to the forum was limited,for damage is all they've come here for.Preaching to these people is not going to achieve anything,their minds are already set.They do not listen,don't want to listen.So to convert them is highly unlikely.But,as Malte says,they are not totally banned,so if we want to get into disscusions with them,we can.But I can get into disscusions with people over capitalist veiwpoints everyday(and I frequently do)I just don't want to have to deal with it here,I'm working class and ignorant,I want to learn more but end up in petty arguments with people who just want to make trouble for their own amusement.

Well....I've said my piece,so I'll shut up now.

libereco

15th January 2002, 17:59

You people (Markx and Company) are clearly overreacting.

All of this didn't happen because there are capitalists here, there were capitalists here before, who acted at least a bit normal and were able to discuss things.

But these guys (Imperial Power, Capitalist) don't want to listen to anything. All they do is post the same things over and over and over and over again, without ever listenting to the counter-arguments. It's whats called "Trolling" in internet terms...they are mostly just here to annoy people, and stir up shit - and see how well it works.

What they don't understand is that probably everybody here lives in a Capitalist Societyand that we very much have an idea of what it is like, how it works and so on. Still they feel the need to educate us in some way.

And this doesn't have shit to do with anarchy...seriously, anarchy can only exist if nonone acts like crazy. In an anarchist society decisions also have to be made, and yes consens is what everything is based upon, but consense of the community of course.....and those people neither are part of the community nor want to be! It is so tolerant to let them post in this forum.....it's all they need also! Because all they ever do is argue the fundamentals of capitalism vs. socialism....they never get into any specific discussions without turning them into those.

So now they can argue their case all they want, but at least other people can talk in peace.
And freedom of speech is still guaranteed.

Imagine some Fascists bust into an anarchist meeting and whenever the Anarchists try to talk about something the Fascist starts yelling "Anarchy doesn't work, you need a leader!".
Do you seriously think that, if he didn't ever learn (as the capies here sadly) they wouldn't be removed? or told to leave?

Hayduke

15th January 2002, 18:04

the fools are blind...........

ANT

15th January 2002, 22:49

Malte and comrads, I really don't understand you.

How do you ever want to get ppl to get to know your thoughts? If you go on with this outkicking of ppl you don't like, the number of commie's will never grow!
Every1 has the same right to speak isn't that so? Eaven ppl who had been brainwashed by all kinds of kapitalistic propaganda. They don't really know what they say because they just say the things they were tought to say.
Wouln't it be wonderfull if we can change there minds by telling them the trough and showing them the other side. You guys are spilling a great opportunity to turn peaple over. And I feel very sad about that:(

My love to all of you!

Markxs

15th January 2002, 23:22

hi and welcome to the community! its nice to have you here.

There are some good points made by ANT here. everybody is different has the same rights. thats a base of socialism. in a society based on inequality this board could be the exception to the world.

to vox

i find it hard to believe that malte is not gaining any profit form all that commercials. there is the shitshirtsguevaraa and those banners.
i think you are right its not the fault of the capitalists that this forum is the way it is. we frist hed the commie club there everybody could debate without capi's. why should we ban them also in the general topics then, its pointless.

if you dont believe in the power of the ppl, why are you ppl socialists anyway. ppl have the opprtunity to free themselves once organized they will take. offcourse education of yourself is also important, but the education of the masses is not 2nd place to that. no one should be denied acces to the general topics!!!! all ppl who want to come are interested anyway the trolling doesnt exist anymore once ppl start reacting possitvily to it. the power games the capis play are we playing we shouldnt forget but not be like them either. we are preaching about acting kind to others so lets practice what we preach. i would like everyone two think twice whenever someting negative is said, its just a waste of energy we could use for the revolution. ands shouldnt waste on kicking the capitalist ass.i am affraid there wont be anything but elite left once this rules tay here. this paranoya stuff should end we humans are not enemies we are friends. thats the feeling, the positve look on ppl we are here to promote i think.

let the revolution embrace you

I Will Deny You

16th January 2002, 02:22

I side with Malte on this one. We're not censoring IP or Capitalist, because with the exception of IP's post in the Prince of Darkness thread on "Harry Potter" (not quite the world's most susbstantive post on the world's weightiest topic) all they post about how great capitalism is and how awful Che is. It's not as if they have been banned.

And as far as us "converting" them to our views, they didn't come here to "convert" and I doubt they'd ever move anywhere but farther right. Here, we can make a point and they won't have to concede, they can just ignore a post. It's not like real life where they will have to respond to everything. Also, if they did move farther left because of a webpage, it would be a Tom Hayden page and not a Che page. Let's face it, a lot of people on the left will never be as hard-line left as the average member here. And in order for Che to inspire them, they would have to come here with an open mind.

ANT

16th January 2002, 10:11

Don't think so negatively man!

Everyone can be turned over to the left! It may take longer to some persons but...

'I Will Deny You', listen.
Imagine you were leading the revolution... Would you also be able to ban the ppl who are against it? Or would you just kill them?
We must learn from the argues with the capi's! Even if they are talking shit! Though it doesn't seems like it, we LEARN from it, and that means we get better and stronger.

libereco

16th January 2002, 11:01

Listen....I don't have anything against capitalists being allowed everywhere and talking to them. Guess what, I have capi friends in real live. The point is that those people who we have encountered here are not here to have a discussion, they don't want to learn, not even teach.....just annoy.

The moment I started to be annoyed by both Imperial Power and Capitalist was, when I noticed that neither of them would ever respond to you again after you pointed out their mistakes.....they would simply ignore it. So I ask you, what is arguing good for if the other side never admits that they were wrong, and try to better themselves?

It's mostly not about being a capi or not, it's about being a Jackass or not.

RedCeltic

16th January 2002, 13:40

Ant... they had been allowed to post freely all over this board for months even though most of their posts are simply propaganda.

NO ONE IS BEING BANNED!

They have their own room now!

In the past.. every time someone would post a topic on curent events, the capitalist supporters would turn it into a capitalism vs. socialism argument. Every thread thus far that they posted in, had become a carbon copy of the same back and forth argument.

We aren't discouraging it... we are encoraging it by setting up a specal room for it!

(Edited by RedCeltic at 8:54 am on Jan. 16, 2002)

Markxs

16th January 2002, 17:38

yes a special room the black ppl in the usa had a private part in the train to. nothing wrong iwth that right ?

i think that since you ppl have your own room why should they have one as well. since you have the commie club, where you can post without being anoyed
please leave this space to the ppl. new ppl will hardly come if you keep sending those who are potential capitalist (99%) away.........

libereco

16th January 2002, 17:53

damnit...this didn't happen because of some factor they can't change as "being black".

It happened because they acted like idiots....it's more like kicking the people out of your part of the train because they run around and yell at you "You idiot you're wrong" and when you start discussing with them they ignore what you say and say "you suck. haha", or just ignore you and annoy the others.
So you just tell them to leave your part of the train so you can live in peace, and whoever wants to visit them can do so.

That analogy is far better than the racism analogy IMHO.

(Edited by libereco at 7:03 pm on Jan. 16, 2002)

El Che

16th January 2002, 17:56

quote from markxs
yes a special room the black ppl in the usa had a private part in the train to. nothing wrong iwth that right ?

I think its bin explained to you that Che-Lives.com isnt public property... Is it that you disagree, and think it is or what? where is the validity of your analogy?

(Edited by El Che at 6:59 pm on Jan. 16, 2002)

I Will Deny You

16th January 2002, 18:17

ANT - I admire your optimism, but the fact of the matter is that they can just ignore our arguments that are correct, point it out when there's too much in-fighting and are really only here to piss us off. If I was leading a revolution, I would be able to talk to people face-to-face. I would demand that they concede points when I was right, and I would acknowledge good points that they made. This would build mutual respect and a good deal of trust. But Capitalist and Imperial Power use twisted facts in their arguments, and especially as someone with no label (socialist, communist, etc.) I am more than willing to admit that there is, in fact, a valid argument or two in favor of capitalism. They ignore valid arguments and just aggrivate us when they could have used the opportunity to make a point. As someone who comes here for intelligent conversation I am pissed off by their immaturity and as someone who comes here for a nice distraction from work/homework I am aggrivated by the fact that I end up spending so much time with counter-arguments. The people who say that this site is private property are correct, and unless you're a Cathar (highly fucking likely!) it's pretty obvious that this site is not owned by any government, etc. And considering the fact that Capitalist and IP only posted about how great capitalism is and how much socialism sucks (when's the last time you saw one of them posting in Music or Literature?) they can still write about what they want to, only now it's separated from the rest of us and anyone who feels like sharing ideas instead of arguing about them can post in peace. If they were banned, it would be a different story, but they're not.

peaccenicked

16th January 2002, 18:31

When I first came to this room I came across a guest
who was pro war. We had a wee ding dong and he left the thread. I think our argument upset him as he started
from being semi logical to being abusive, not just to me but to others. He stopped and that was that. As far as Imperial power and Capitalist are concerned they became members. That strikes me as odd. When I stated reading their posts. There is something very wrong with the social skills of these people. I meet their patriotic drivel all the time but I get some respect and known boundaries are set up. Here I found nothing but vitriol.
there was absoutely no point of contact. No shared perception. now I have been on the new forum often,
these guys are actually opening up a bit, and
taking us down new paths. I wanted to ban them completely just for their absolute rudeness. What were they were saying was idiotic but i felt it might effect those who were new to leftist ideas, if they were to persist unanswered. The new forum is just as good as
any other part of the forum because people can post on any subject. Here is merely a more stressless environment.
My vision of the messageboard when it comes to right wingers is let them be but don't let them be abusive.
Malte's solution seems to be working to a degree. It seems to have served as a warning to them. it seems as those 'guy's need this site. I have the flu and this has been my escape from it and they are here daily.
Why they want to win the capitalist propaganda war here still escapes me, but surely the average right winger who stops by will maybe only post about his feelings about some important event. The majority of people are not right wing ideologues. probably the most dominant tribe are hedonists whose major asset is that
they don't like the police, and if they find this site might find it cool, man

RedCeltic

16th January 2002, 19:38

Markxs... I believe that if you would to ask Imperial Power and Capitalist why they where on this board they would tell you to educate us on why communism is wrong and capitalism is right. That the only reason they are on this board is to argue that point.

I don't like your analagy at all.. their agruments are being contained within one section not because of who they are like being black. That's obsurd!

A better comparison would be if you would go into a resturaunt and want to smoke. Well, while the majority of the establishment is smoke free, they have a spot reserved in the back for smokers.

Is this segragation? I mean... come on man... I personaly have asthma and can't stand people smoking around me. I don't have anything against them personaly... just that they are smoking and I can't breath because of it. To protect everyone's rights, smokers are allowed to smoke in a particular section. I can go talk to them if I want... but I don't have to be choked when trying to enjoy a meal.

These people don't have "Right winger" tattooed on their forheads... however, are only here to spread their propaganda, or educate us as they would say... which is fine... so they have a place now, so we don't have to be choked from their fumes.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 2:39 pm on Jan. 16, 2002)

Markxs

16th January 2002, 23:36

hello everybody.

i think we just have to let ppl in with a different opion. and if we just respond to them on a grown up way so no swearing back. they cant get pissed or fuck up the debate. the best thing is to love your enemy!!!!!

oh sorry forget to reply to the analogy thing. well lets see, them being black is something they cant help. i doubt if you can do something about being ignorant, it took me about 16 years to realize capitlaism was a lie. how can we suspect that the capi's here adapt so soon. when i came here first on the old forum i was a capitalist to in my actions, old habits like throwing empty bottles of coca cola in the envoirment, even drinking it. i think swearing to ppl is also something i did to everybody and always. when you learn to get over that even when ppl piss you off you feel really free. the capitalist trick is divide and conquer. the leftist answer is to stick together even with the enemies. as contradictionary that may sound its my truth. i think letting it become your truth will help you.

there is a reason to be seen that ppl live in a capi world on the religous level as well. ppl feel cut off from the live energy source. thats why they compete for eachothers energy. and swearing to them gives them energy. once you reconnect to the energy inside you. you feel no need to swear another time. it only costs there is nothing to gain from it.

(Edited by Markxs at 1:46 am on Jan. 17, 2002)

Edelweiss

17th January 2002, 00:00

Markxs, if every anarchist would be like you, the blackbloc would be a bunch of hippies throwing flowers! :)

Imperial Power

17th January 2002, 04:39

I just wanted to say that I was not aware of missing any of your responses. I was only aware of you not replying to my questions. But it is possible considering going to college takes a lot of my time and I spend about 5 min a day on this.

El Che

17th January 2002, 16:29

Being a part of che-lives isn`t a right its a privilege. One that can be revoked if abused. As an example of a right winger that shouldnt be confined to the Capitalism Vs Socialism forum, one could present Augostos Sandino. He is a right winger that doesnt disrupt but rather argues his points in a rather inteligent fashion. His fights with Vox where one of the most intersting debates this site saw. But guys like fantomas, mad max, reagan lives, capitalist etc etc etc.... They add nothing so they should be at the very least confined to a cage were we can visit them if we wish and discuss all other points and issues without the horrible experience of having them all sabotaged.

RedCeltic

18th January 2002, 03:17

Being a part of che-lives isn`t a right its a privilege

Uh... El Che... now you have me worried about you... I personally think your going way too far in considering yourself part of a "privilaged" class... I mean WTF?

I have a great deal of respect for you comrade, but I think you better rethink that rash statement... maybe it lost something in translatiion... I can only hope so...

This is not something a socialist would say. I believe you simply misrepresented yourself comrade, or got carried away.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 11:41 pm on Jan. 17, 2002)

Nickademus

18th January 2002, 03:29

Quote: from Imperial Power on 5:39 am on Jan. 17, 2002
I just wanted to say that I was not aware of missing any of your responses. I was only aware of you not replying to my questions. But it is possible considering going to college takes a lot of my time and I spend about 5 min a day on this.

gee how surprising that you are only aware of other peoples' faults/errors and not your own. gee why doesn't that surprise me. and there are many of us who don't spend a lot of time on here either cause well, law school and all the other stuff i do definately keeps me busy as well, but i still find time to advocate for my political beliefs.

I Will Deny You

18th January 2002, 05:09

El Che, I think I agree with you. The vast majority of people on these boards are socialists or communists, but the fact of the matter is almost all of us (if not all of us) live in capitalist countries, and this board is, in fact, owned. The owner, Malte, chose to make this a socialist/communist board but it is owned, in the capitalist sense of the word. RedCeltic, people who are allowed in all forums are not members of a priviliged class, but simply a priviliged group. All capitalists and right wingers have the privilige of going out and spending their time, effort and money on a Batista-Lives.com message board if they so choose, and they would have the right to ban us from it. The owners have property rights, but this is not a freedom of speech issue because the board is owned, so it's a privilige.

RedCeltic

18th January 2002, 05:53

I Will Deny You... I have great respect for you... I agree with everything you said there.... heck... is it any wonder? I've been a fan since you have arived here!

You are correct and I simply misread, my mistake comrade "El Che"

El Che

18th January 2002, 16:57

I think there is a great deal of confusion here, and you can see that through out this thread... Confusing freedom of speech with the fact that we dont want everyone to be able to post anything they want, because that would destroy these forums. You see this isnt a society, or a state, its a private space for discution. So my point is, Capitalist does not have the right to be here, as he doesnt have the right to any freedom of speech here. Because once again this is a private space on the net, if it where a society then he would have all those rights. But although he would have the right to free speech i would also have the right to move as far away from him as i could so i wouldnt have to listen to his crap. But im getting off track, due to the fact that this is a little private corner of the web noone has anyrights here, Markxs said something like this: these forums should be run acording to anarchist principles, so nothing could/should be done without the agreement of all. Following this logic everyone has the right not only to say what they like but also to decide how the community is run. So a right wing troll comes online today and he is imidiatly participating in the decision making, without his agreement noone can do anything. This is in my opinion a wrong position, based on the confusion between this place and a public space. This is what i was trying to say with that sort sentence you singled out RedCeltic, maybe i should have explained my self better. And my choice of words was poor because using the word "privileged" obviously have raise to the continuation of the confusion this thread and this arguement is based on. So let me refraise that: We are all guests here, noone has any rights to anything, on the contrary we are all allowed to do all we do here. And if we dont behave we will cease to be allowed.

Valkyrie

18th January 2002, 20:10

Should'nt we as socialists apply our theories and beliefs into actual practice towards every situation?? Here and in practical life? Otherwise, alternatively, our socialism is just theoretical academic discourse.

I Will Deny You

18th January 2002, 20:21

Right back at ya, RedCeltic. Now on to the next one:

Quote: from Paris on 9:10 pm on Jan. 18, 2002
Should'nt we as socialists apply our theories and beliefs into actual practice towards every situation?? Here and in practical life? Otherwise, alternatively, our socialism is just theoretical academic discourse.Our socialism is just theoretical academic discourse, you are correct. It would be impossible to apply socialist values to property that is by all means located in capitalist territory, socialism wasn't meant to work that way. Socialism must be run by the government, which is not the case, or it must be run in a small society that the government leaves alone. (The closest thing to this would be a Kabutz.) A Kabutz is run democratically if my memory serves me correctly, with no one defined leader. Since this place is owned by Malte and people waltz in and out as they please, we could never successfully apply socialist values to it. A website is property, not a society.

Markxs

19th January 2002, 01:18

how about treating ppl as equals.i think we should try to allow nobody to be trolling. so lets ban anyone who messes up a argument. lets say a new capitalist comes in with the name of 'el commandante ernesto'. he is starts messing up a argument (you ppl really hate that), he is trolling around. so here comes the 'true' socialist. he starts trolling back? yes ppl on this forum trol back they play with there enemies a bit. harmless you say ? wrong. the ppl who call themselves knowing as opposed to ignrorant (that are the capitalists right ?) . they reply a message with swearing back. what kind of 'freed' ppl are we. we do the same things as our enemies. we are as much to blame as well.

i think you should either ban everybody who messes up debate, then rather some kind of ppl with the bad names like capitalist. be consequent please.