Mumia Abu-Jamal

[SlimJin]

This is a really big issue in the leftist society. I've been reading up on it and have no idea what to believe when I read because most are biased one way or another either for or against him. Are there any people here who can help me out because I have no idea what to believe. I go to independent bookstores that hand me flyers like FREE MUMIA but this could be leftist propaganda too? Anyone here want to share their thoughts about it?

[Hampton]

Good independent book is Killing Time by Dave Lindorff which as a lot of facts about the trial and what happened that night based on the witnesses.

You can check the Mumia thread (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=6743) in the Practice forum for some stuff too.

[Morpheus]

Well, another guy admitted to doing it, so he's probably innocent. Even if he isn't, it doesn't matter. He killed a violent cop who was attacking his brother and probably him. It's entirely justified.

[Freiheitfuralle]

I would also like some unbiased info on the trial too but...
It doesn't really matter to me if he's guilty or not, because they have violated his rights as an American to serve a rightist republican political agenda, and they plan to execute him.
He will die either in the electric chair, or a jail cell, because he's a threat to rightist security, and worse he's black! Just like Malcolm X,
MLK, Shermmie, and Jesus, he is a threat.
His trial was so botched I can't even stand to speak of it. And now they are even depriving him of medical care! So even IF he did it, they would still owe him a trial. And I think a REAL trial is all that is needed to prove him Not Guilty.

[Urban Rubble]

Malcolm X,
MLK, Shermmie, and Jesus, he is a threat.

Wow. So now Sherman Austin is up there with MLK and Jesus ? For running a fucking website ? Are you kidding me ?

Sherman is a great guy, and great for the cause, but this hero worship is ridiculous. He was a kid who ran a leftist website and got thrown in jail over some bullshit. It sucks, but it doesn't make him a revolutionary hero.

[Freiheitfuralle]

"Hero Worship"? No, people who have something in common.
Here, let me explain. What do Jesus, Sherman, Malcolm, and Mumia all have in common?(it's not a riddle) They were all jailed or eventually killed because people didn't like them very much.

Here's a riddle: What do a politician, an athelete, and a faucet have in common? They all run! Ha! Wait....
Wow. So now faucets are up there with atheletes and politicians?
For being leaky and ill-fitted? Are you kidding me?

[SittingBull47]

Good question. I've read "Live from Death Row", and i should read Killing time too...but in my opinion he is innocent. The trial was heavily fucked and the justice was tampered.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 17 2004, 06:04 AM

Malcolm X,
MLK, Shermmie, and Jesus, he is a threat.

Wow. So now Sherman Austin is up there with MLK and Jesus ? For running a fucking website ? Are you kidding me ?

Sherman is a great guy, and great for the cause, but this hero worship is ridiculous. He was a kid who ran a leftist website and got thrown in jail over some bullshit. It sucks, but it doesn't make him a revolutionary hero.
I think what Freiheitfuralle meant was that these ppl were all a threat to a higher grouping of ppl, who just bychance make and break the laws.

Jesus threatened religious ideology; claiming himself as the Messiah, etc. Most at the time who made the rules were pretty much centred around religious ideology. They thought the 'Messiah' would be some high King, as opposed to some Rabbi who hung out with social outcasts.

All the ppl Freiheitfuralle stated, went against a higher authority, and I think that was the point he was trying to make.

Just think of how ridiculous the gov't looks for chasing down someone who has a website. Doesnt that go against this whole 'freedom' notion our society boasts so much about? HA!

[roman]

Who cares if he did it? He is justified whether he did it or not. The pigs had been killing the black revolutionary leadship for decades: Malcolm X, the panthers, the move, etc.

[Freiheitfuralle]

Thanx Knowledge 666, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 02:37 AM
Well, another guy admitted to doing it, so he's probably innocent. Even if he isn't, it doesn't matter. He killed a violent cop who was attacking his brother and probably him. It's entirely justified.
Yeah read that too, but I also read that the guy who admitted it has some mental issue, and actually had admitted to crimes and stuff before, which he cant have commited.

There is a site that my mate goes on about all the time called justice for daniel fawlkner, with trial transcripts, etc, which they say prove he's guilt etc.

I dont know what to believe.

[SlimJin]

Yeah I decided to look up Sherman thats fucked up what they did to him

[Urban Rubble]

Freiheitfuralle: I wasn't trying to single you out. I just see alot of people acting like Sherman is some kind of leader to be admired. The kid was the victim of some overzealous bureaucrat who decided to have some fun with the Partriot act. He was running a website, and yes, that takes work and is admirable, but alot of people want to act like he is some kind of martyr. Sorry to sound like I was attacking you, I've just been seeing people do that alot. I get the point you were trying to make about them all being put in jail because someone didn't like them. Though I wouldn't go that far for Mumia. The evidence that he shot the guy is just alot more convincing than the defense's. I don't know whether he did it or not, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say he is in jail just because "some people didn't like him".


Yeah read that too, but I also read that the guy who admitted it has some mental issue, and actually had admitted to crimes and stuff before, which he cant have commited.

Yeah, people admit to crimes they didn't commit all the time. I don't think that proves anything about the case. To act like it means he didn't do it is ridiculous.

I wish I could find the website that I had read. I went into it thinking he didn't do it, and after spending a while at that site reviewing all the actual evidence, I tend to think he probably shot the guy. And if he did, it's ridiculous for him to be sentenced to die. Gary Rideway (the Green River serial killer recentley caught) isn't even going to die, and he killed around 50 people. Just because the guy was a cop doesn't mean he is more important, in fact, he gets paid to put his life on the line, so maybe it should be less.


Who cares if he did it? He is justified whether he did it or not.

You need to get some respect for human life kid. Not every cop is a bloodthirsty animal looking for black people to shoot. Some are just good, ignorant men that think they are making a difference. Some cops actually try to do the right thing and help people. Even if you find it unacceptable to be a police officer, that doesn't mean he should be killed. This kind of shit makes me sick. It makes me wonder what would happen if a group of you kids actually got some power. Would you go out blasting every cop you see ? How about their families (don't even laugh at that if you're a Lenin admirer) ?

[Hampton]

www.danielfaulkner.com/ (http://www.danielfaulkner.com/)

What Urban said is a major problem with the whole Mumia support group, they don't have a site like that which systematically lists what happened in the trial and what was wrong and what was right. The book Killing Time does this, the book is about the trial and that's why I think it's such a good book for people to read if they have questions about Mumia. And I'm glad people do and are not just supporting him based on blind faith alone. Mumia has never really explained what happened that night, why I have no idea. His account is pretty brief and dosen't fill in all the gaps.

I'm not going to type out the whole book but I did list some things that are in the book once in the Mumia thread in practice if you want to see what's in the book.

I don't think Faulkner was a saint either, he had an FBI file which when requested some parts were cut out and a video camera in his patrol car when most did not, the video has never been released. What he was doing that night when he pulled over Mumia's brother is not really known, the Philly police were famous for being racist and corrupt in the 80's, was he pulling over Billy Cook becuase he was black or for something else? There was another person in the car with Billy, did he shoot Faulkner? I think he was found dead somewhere though so we might never know.

[Urban Rubble]

Yeah, I read some of that Killing Time book. I don't really know what happened that night, all I know is that the details, as well as the persons involed (on both sides) are sketchy as hell. There are two things we need established though. 1. Too many people hear some vague story about how a black man was framed by a racist cop and that some other guy admitted the crime and then blindly support Mumia. That is not right, study the shit. 2. We need to get past this idiotic idea that it doesn't matter whether he did it or not because it's O.K to kill a cop. Killing a random cop is not O.K, nor is killing a random government official. They are still people, though they may have made bad decisions.

Hampton, so what do you think about the whole thing ? I am inclined to think that you believe he is innocent. I don't really know why, maybe you mentioned it somewhere.

[Hampton]

Too many people hear some vague story about how a black man was framed by a racist cop and that some other guy admitted the crime and then blindly support Mumia. That is not right, study the shit.

Exactly, that's what I was trying to say. Getting behind something because a lot of other people do is stupid and irresponsible on their own part. Never take one side of the story, injest both then decide. But I think a lot of people do that with Mumia and when asked why they support him, don't know anything about him or why they think the way they do and look like fools and people assume that we're all like that.

Nobody except Mumia and his brother know what happened that night, neither seem to want to talk much about it so we have to go by what the "witnesses" say, that's good and bad.


2. We need to get past this idiotic idea that it doesn't matter whether he did it or not because it's O.K to kill a cop. Killing a random cop is not O.K, nor is killing a random government official. They are still people, though they may have made bad decisions.

Si senor. There's a vaule on every human life which should be important and shouldn't be so easily discarded.


Hampton, so what do you think about the whole thing ? I am inclined to think that you believe he is innocent. I don't really know why, maybe you mentioned it somewhere.

I sit on the side of innocence. I don't take much stock in what Cynthia White or Robert Chobert said on the stand but at the same time I'm not satisfied about Mumia's offical account of what happened that night, I'm still not sure why he fired Leonard Weinglass when he did, and Arnold Beverly is a shady dude.

But, the Philly Police's account and documentation of what happened is flawed and has errors on it as well, like when they said Mumia said something about killing Faulkner in the hospital and the whole thing about the bullets in Faulkner and the prints, I'm not sure who's telling the truth on a lot of issues.

I do think that if he shot Faulkner it would have been in self defense, he was fighting with Mumia's brother, Faulkner sees Mumia rushing towards the area gets worried shots Mumia and Mumia shoots back or Mumia shoots first when he sees his brother being beaten up by a cop.

One thing though I think everyone can agree on is that he didn't get a fair trial, throw away the question of innocence or guilt, he deserves another trial, a fair trial. I don't know if he will ever get it though.

[Hate Is Art]

maybe he did kill the cop? maybe he didn't?

only way we will know is when he gets a fair trial, like hampton I don't see it happening though.

[DSCH]

He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. He was found at the scene of the crime with his gun in his hand. He should be executed as swiftly as possible.

[Hampton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 07:30 PM
He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. He was found at the scene of the crime with his gun in his hand. He should be executed as swiftly as possible.
You're a putz, "the jury of his peers" had one other African American on it, the rest were all white. The gun wasn't in his hand either, he was unconscious when the police arrived at the scene. Get your facts straight before you talk stupid shit.

[insurgency03]

What bothers me is that they'll find some way to capitalize their images in some shpae or form. They did it to MLK. they did it to Malcom X, and they've probley got plans ready for a market line of Mumia related material. I think that the buisness world relishes in the death of proud idealists and great revolutionaries, because one way or another they'll try to put a copyright on their memory. screwed up isn't it?

[Nickademus]

k i have a few things to say (yeah that's right ... I'M BACK!!!! kinda). most of you probably don't have any clue who i am but that's ok. its been a very long time since i've been here.

anyway here's what i wanted to say:

first of all, the guilt or innocence of this man isn't really the issue. the issue is the fact that he was denied a fair trial. that is NOT acceptable. and many people do fear he was imprisoned because of his political believes.

second to whoever the hell it was that said he was found guilty by his peers and found with a gun in his hand at the scene. WELL GEE THAT PROOVES EVERYTHING THEN! well then, donald marshall jr should have been killed, leonard peltier should definately be done for .... have you never heard of the fact that people are wrongly convicted all the time! please....read something ... educate yourself. its not uncommon for people to believe that beceause someone was found guilty they are guilty .. but that unfortuantely is not the truth. i can give you plenty of examples. argh, frustration.