Farewell comrades

[revolutionindia]

Its been a long time since i started posting on che-lives.com.Just when i was nearing 50 posts i got restricted not that that i was not expecting it of late i have been voicing my opinions a bit too loud and censorship is after all the birth right of all communists.

Che was a great man i am sorry the same cannot be said about his followers and those who idolize him especially those on this site.

I am sure majority of the people on this site are pseudo revolutionaries for whom this site is a outlet for their fantasies of being a hero like che but come morning they wake up and they realise what losers they are in real life.

I am not a homosphobe but i dont think it should be encouraged either.
About homosexuality
Tell me what do you have to say about your great idol fidel castro who expelled all homosexuals from cuba along with criminals calling them scum after he came to power i am sure che was a part of it.

After 4 months at che-lives.com i can confidently say communism is dead
Long live what ever comes next??

As for me i found a better site its called

www.opendemocracy.org (http://www.opendemocracy.org)

its a great site and not filled with misguided pseudo revolutionaies like those in che-lives.com
thats where you can find me.

In my quest for the truth che-lives.com has served its purpose my journey goes on wish all comrades at che-lives.com a Happy revolution!!!!

Revolutionindia will be back someday till then AAAAaaooooommmmm

[RedAnarchist]

Dont let the door whack your arse on the way out! :D :lol:

[SittingBull47]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 03:02 PM
censorship is after all the birth right of all communists.

I am not a homosphobe but i dont think it should be encouraged either.
i hate censorship...it should be abolished.

your stance on homosexuality is very moderate.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 03:12 PM
your stance on homosexuality is very moderate.
Since when has claiming that homosexuality should not be encouraged moderate. Maybe If you're Hienrich Himmler that could be argued.

I would say at theast two thirds of the people who are accused of being homophobic do not actually think that they are homophobic. Maybe Revolutionindia would not put a gun to a gay persons head and pull the trigger but that does not mean he is not homophobic. Homophobia is an attitude, not just a vocal expression of hatred.

Homophobia comes in many different forms, some blatant and some latent. To express that "homosexuality is a threat to universal brotherhood" or that "homosexuals are ok as long as they dont express their sexuality publicly" ie kissing in the streets is homophobia. To create an opinion which serves to repress the actions, freedoms or expression of another group is a form of oppression. In this case homophobia. To suggest that homosexuality is a curse or "moderatly" assert that it is a problem is to create a feeling of difference. That is fundamentally wrong, no matter who it is. I am no different to a straight person, I just have sex differently. To tell me, violently or with "moderate" language that that is wrong is homophobic and should not be tolerated anywhere in society.

People should not worry themselves with what gay people do or how they do it. It is not a problem, nor is it a curse. It is not a threat to anyone or anything, it is a lifestyle, it is a way that people are and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

Revolutionindia has a right to sit here and debate the issue and maybe he will have the opporunity to be unrestricted. It looks as if he has no intention of doing that. Instead, he accuses us of being anti-communist, anti-revolutionary and uses his idols as an excuse to justify his own opinions as if that is all it takes to be a communist or a revolutionary.

Homophobia is wrong, and evil, no matter whether Guevara was a homophobe or whether George Bush is it can not be tolerated. Just because you agree with someone on certain issues does not make them right on every issue.

Also, to say that revolutionindia has moderate opinions on homosexuality is dangerous. His opinions were not moderate at all. Maybe to the social norm, but that is not what we and this board are. We are not moderate, and we do not accept the social norm as being credible. We are radicals, we are revolutionaries, we desire a society which breaks down the social norms and creates a society based on freedom, where opinions such as this are regarded as cruel and backward, because that is what they are and they need to be fought against at every single opporunity.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 11:02 AM
Tell me what do you have to say about your great idol fidel castro who expelled all homosexuals from cuba along with criminals calling them scum after he came to power i am sure che was a part of it.
That was in the 60's. At that time, rights for homosexuals were unheard of. America was in the stone at that time as far as civil rights. We still segregating whites and blacks while they were discriminating against homosexuals. We should worry about the big things that are wrong with ourselves rather then critize the party for its prior stance toward homosexuals. The Cubans were always leaps and bounds ahead of us as far as civil rights are concerned. Equal rights are always something that should be fought for, but you have to understand that we don't just go out and say everyone is equal out of nowhere. It takes time for people to accept how certain people live. We aren't perfect, but we are always far ahead of the time. The Cubans did away with racial segregation immediately after the revolution, and the Soviets gave men and women equal rights after the 1917 revolution and the party has long since changed its policy toward homosexuals. In the US, we still have yet to give equal rights to woman, much less homosexuals. To compare Cubans to perfection is unfair. Their system has had its flaws, and they are working them out. Why don't we try and worry about the oozing tumor of a civil rights record that we have before we cry about the freckle that Cuba's system had 30 years ago.

[Danton]

Whether it be through malice or ignorance, homophobia must never be tolerated, how can we reach for total equality without renouncing such bigotry, comrade TAT has spoken eloquently on this subject many times and through his and others vigilence and I must say bravery we are weeding out these hipocrites and this place is all the better for it.. :)

[shyguywannadie]

I havnt been here long but so far my impression would side WITH revolutionindia.

[Danton]

What? that gays are a threat to the universal brotherhood?

[Intifada]

shut the door on your way out you stupid homophobic wanker.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Mar 15 2004, 11:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Anarchist Tension @ Mar 15 2004, 11:49 AM)
[email protected] 15 2004, 03:12 PM
your stance on homosexuality is very moderate.
Since when has claiming that homosexuality should not be encouraged moderate. Maybe If you&#39;re Hienrich Himmler that could be argued.

I would say at theast two thirds of the people who are accused of being homophobic do not actually think that they are homophobic. Maybe Revolutionindia would not put a gun to a gay persons head and pull the trigger but that does not mean he is not homophobic. Homophobia is an attitude, not just a vocal expression of hatred.

Homophobia comes in many different forms, some blatant and some latent. To express that "homosexuality is a threat to universal brotherhood" or that "homosexuals are ok as long as they dont express their sexuality publicly" ie kissing in the streets is homophobia. To create an opinion which serves to repress the actions, freedoms or expression of another group is a form of oppression. In this case homophobia. To suggest that homosexuality is a curse or "moderatly" assert that it is a problem is to create a feeling of difference. That is fundamentally wrong, no matter who it is. I am no different to a straight person, I just have sex differently. To tell me, violently or with "moderate" language that that is wrong is homophobic and should not be tolerated anywhere in society.

People should not worry themselves with what gay people do or how they do it. It is not a problem, nor is it a curse. It is not a threat to anyone or anything, it is a lifestyle, it is a way that people are and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

Revolutionindia has a right to sit here and debate the issue and maybe he will have the opporunity to be unrestricted. It looks as if he has no intention of doing that. Instead, he accuses us of being anti-communist, anti-revolutionary and uses his idols as an excuse to justify his own opinions as if that is all it takes to be a communist or a revolutionary.

Homophobia is wrong, and evil, no matter whether Guevara was a homophobe or whether George Bush is it can not be tolerated. Just because you agree with someone on certain issues does not make them right on every issue.

Also, to say that revolutionindia has moderate opinions on homosexuality is dangerous. His opinions were not moderate at all. Maybe to the social norm, but that is not what we and this board are. We are not moderate, and we do not accept the social norm as being credible. We are radicals, we are revolutionaries, we desire a society which breaks down the social norms and creates a society based on freedom, where opinions such as this are regarded as cruel and backward, because that is what they are and they need to be fought against at every single opporunity. [/b]
I think you are a tad oversensitive TAT.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 04:41 PM
I think you are a tad oversensitive TAT.
I see a pattern emerging...

Would you like to elaberate?

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+Mar 15 2004, 12:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (The Anarchist Tension @ Mar 15 2004, 12:48 PM)
[email protected] 15 2004, 04:41 PM
I think you are a tad oversensitive TAT.
I see a pattern emerging...

Would you like to elaberate? [/b]
You ***** about just about anything that you find even remotely not in wholehearted agreement with yours, and instead of just just refuting what they say, you go behind their backs and ***** to the admins. You are like a spoiled four year old, try coming out from behind mommys some time. If someone is saying something like "kill all the faggots" thats one thing, but you cry like a baby over EVERYTHING. For petes sake, you raise hell with the admins just because I am critical about talking about masterbating in a room full of naked men.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Since when has claiming that homosexuality should not be encouraged moderate. Maybe If you&#39;re Hienrich Himmler that could be argued.



A valid point. The comparison to Himmler may be a bit extreme however.



I think you are a tad oversensitive TAT.


Also a valid point. I reckon there are much worse things to be rather than being a "tad oversensitive" though.

This is the least of anyones concerns. I would suspect that Mr. Tension is "oversensitive" since he has had to deal with not only the individuals that profess that "some of their best friends are gay" while finishing a joke about "them queers" at the pub but also the individuals that get their kicks from tieing "them damn dirty queers" to the bumber of their primered chevy 4x4&#39;s while doin&#39; a little mud rompin&#39; out over yonder.

Perhaps you should just cut the cat some slack you dig? If you don&#39;t like all these threads about homosexuality then don&#39;t post in them.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 15 2004, 01:31 PM
Perhaps you should just cut the cat some slack you dig? If you don&#39;t like all these threads about homosexuality then don&#39;t post in them.
TAT needs to cut us some slack. I don&#39;t think everyone should have to walk on eggshells when speaking as not to offend TAT, but rather TAT needs to learn that everyone will not give in to his *****ing because he knows how to cry to daddy admin and the rest of totalitarian anarchists safe within the snug confines of the "Commie Club". People should not have to keep from saying their mind just because TAT doesn&#39;t have the maturity to handle a little critisizm. TAT needs to learn to deal with everyone else, not the other way around.

[Individual]

I am sure majority of the people on this site are pseudo revolutionaries

Might that be why you are here? A &#39;pseudo&#39; revolutionary, revolutionindia? Well what else would explain you going to another, non-revolutionary, webforum? If you are such a &#39;non-pseudo&#39; revolutionary, what are you doing to help India?


After 4 months at che-lives.com i can confidently say communism is dead
Long live what ever comes next??

As for me i found a better site its called
www.opendemocracy.org

its a great site and not filled with misguided pseudo revolutionaies like those in che-lives.com
thats where you can find me.

Yes, you know how revolutionary those &#39;democracy&#39; forums are. You are so revolutionary RI, that while whining to us about being &#39;psuedo&#39;, instead of doing something, you find another webforum to supply activity in that life of nothing that you lead.


In my quest for the truth che-lives.com has served its purpose my journey goes on wish all comrades at che-lives.com a Happy revolution&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Revolutionindia will be back someday till then

I thought we weren&#39;t revolutionary enough for you? Why would you come back? Ah, maybe because your life has nothing in it, and you feel that you were going to get comforting goodbyes by insulting us.

Come back, you will not be welcomed.

:redstar2000: -Inspite of one in which you might have actually learned from.

[Individual]

I havnt been here long but so far my impression would side WITH revolutionindia.

Shyguy: www.opendemocracy.org (http://www.opendemocracy.org)


;)

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 04:56 PM
You ***** about just about anything that you find even remotely not in wholehearted agreement with yours,
This is just a piss poor rationalization for your dislike for me. If you actually take the time to pay attention the people I get annoyed with are people who are homophobic or generally narrow minded.


and instead of just just refuting what they say, you go behind their backs and ***** to the admins.

I get so bored of trying to teach you people the ability to rationalize that what&#39;s the fucking point. I have constantly tried to change peoples minds, including yours, but to what purpose. You are not going to accept when you are wrong even if you think you are.

Furthermore, I dont owe you anything. I dont owe any of the misgreants that think it is acceptable to be homophobic. And what exactly are you doing to prove me wrong accept do exactly what you have accused me of doing, *****ing&#33;


You are like a spoiled four year old, try coming out from behind mommys some time.

It is quite easy for you to rationalize my anger and disgust at peoples prejudicies in this way because it means you do not have to understand what I am saying. You dont even like me, so what on earth could I say to you that would make any difference.

Read the guidlines for this site and there you will find it in black and white, exactly what is and what is not acceptable. Homophobia is something which affects me personally so yes, I am sensitive to it. I also understand what it is more than you or any other straight person could because I live with it. Just as a black person knows what racism is, just as a woman knows what sexism is. Taking those guildines and my ability to understand and spot homophobia all I have attempted to do is bring homophobia to peoples attentions and most often than not the admins and the rest of those in CC agree with what I am saying and restrict members because of it.

These restrictions are not permenant anyway, and any final decision regarding a restriction is done by the administrators not by me. You used homophobic language in a a debate with me if you dont think you were being homophobic then that&#39;s not my problem, that&#39;s yours. The admins agreed with my argument and you were restricted, and in all honestly, I dont even know whether it was my argument that got you restricted.

The problem here isnt with me it&#39;s with peoples inability to see their own prejudice. If you dont believe me then there is nothing more I can say to you.


If someone is saying something like "kill all the faggots" thats one thing, but you cry like a baby over EVERYTHING.

But gay oppression does not exist solely in that form there are many different forms of homophobia which are equally as disturbing and should be fought against as much. It is difficult to try and get people to understand this because the social norm is very prejudice towards gay people. Even those people who consider themselves to be "liberal" are actually homophobic. One debate that I started was abou this very thing. It was written by some guy who said it had nothing against gay people aslong as they didnt protest about it. What he actually means by that is, that gay people are acceptable in society as long as they dont protest against the injustices that are brought against them. Such as gay marriage, inheretence rights, the age of consent. Many people agree, that gay people are perfectly ok to do what they do in their own home as long as they do not expect the same rights as everyone else. Whether this is conscious or not is irrelevant. Just because someone may not realize what they are doing and may not associate it with homophobia does not stop it from being homophobia. Having a minority legislated against is wrong, its barbaric and it has to stop and these so called liberals also have to be challanged.


For petes sake, you raise hell with the admins just because I am critical about talking about masterbating in a room full of naked men.

I am unsure exactly how you know anything about my private conversations with the admins or any one else for that matter. I didnt not request your restriction because of you do not want to talk about masturbation in a room full of naked men, and in fact I think you know that. I requested your restriction because you did, whether you want to admit it or not, use homophobic language, and homophobes do not have the right to the entire board. I have made it my business to make sure that homophobes on here do not have the ability to infect it. Just as I hope everyone else does in regards to this, racism, sexism, national chauvinism and fascism.

As far as I understand it nobodies restriction is permenant, so you do have the opporuntity to correct your misguided opinions.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr+Mar 15 2004, 05:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr @ Mar 15 2004, 05:43 PM)
COMRADE [email protected] 15 2004, 01:31 PM
Perhaps you should just cut the cat some slack you dig? If you don&#39;t like all these threads about homosexuality then don&#39;t post in them.
TAT needs to cut us some slack. I don&#39;t think everyone should have to walk on eggshells when speaking as not to offend TAT, but rather TAT needs to learn that everyone will not give in to his *****ing because he knows how to cry to daddy admin and the rest of totalitarian anarchists safe within the snug confines of the "Commie Club". People should not have to keep from saying their mind just because TAT doesn&#39;t have the maturity to handle a little critisizm. TAT needs to learn to deal with everyone else, not the other way around. [/b]
This is beginning to be a problem...

If you have a problem with me or the way I conduct myself on this board then speak to an admin about it and let them deal with it. Do not use every opportunity to turn this into a TAT vs MM thread. It&#39;s boring, its a waste of time and it&#39;s pissing people off. Just drop it&#33;

If you want to refute the points I have made about homophobia then do it. If you want to have a slanging match with me, i&#39;m all up for it [email protected] there&#39;s my msn...bring it on...But stop using these threads as some personal vendetta against me&#33;

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Oh dear God, will you all stop *****ing.

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 11:15 PM


In my quest for the truth che-lives.com has served its purpose my journey goes on wish all comrades at che-lives.com a Happy revolution&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Revolutionindia will be back someday till then

I thought we weren&#39;t revolutionary enough for you? Why would you come back? Ah, maybe because your life has nothing in it, and you feel that you were going to get comforting goodbyes by insulting us.

Come back, you will not be welcomed.


I will be back so that we can set up gay people s utopia on earth that what most communists dream of on this site. :D

The smallest deed is greater than the grandest vision

The only thing you communists are obsessed with is building gay people s utopia in the last four months the only deed i have heard of on che-lives.com is of some oompa loompa waving his arm out of the window because somebody raised his college fees. :D

revolutionaries indeed :lol:

www.Opendemocracy.org is like a breath of fresh air after breathing the pungent rotten odours of decaying communists leftover from the collapse of communism.


If you are such a &#39;non-pseudo&#39; revolutionary, what are you doing to help India?


I know what i have done and what has to be done someday you will hear about if you keep your head on planet earth and not in gay utopia among the clouds

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

This is just a piss poor rationalization for your dislike for me. If you actually take the time to pay attention the people I get annoyed with are people who are homophobic or generally narrow minded.

No, its a fact, when I was in CC, 90% of the restriction threads were started by you.


I get so bored of trying to teach you people the ability to rationalize that what&#39;s the fucking point. I have constantly tried to change peoples minds, including yours, but to what purpose. You are not going to accept when you are wrong even if you think you are.

Then why are you here?


Furthermore, I dont owe you anything. I dont owe any of the misgreants that think it is acceptable to be homophobic. And what exactly are you doing to prove me wrong accept do exactly what you have accused me of doing, *****ing&#33;

Have I ever said it is acceptable to be homophobic? I think you are blowing this way out of proportion. If people have homophobic leaning tendancies then they will grow out of them simply by being here and listening to what we have to say. Unless someone outright says something along the line of "Kill all the faggots" then I don&#39;t think they should get resticted.


It is quite easy for you to rationalize my anger and disgust at peoples prejudicies in this way because it means you do not have to understand what I am saying. You dont even like me, so what on earth could I say to you that would make any difference.

Read the guidlines for this site and there you will find it in black and white, exactly what is and what is not acceptable. Homophobia is something which affects me personally so yes, I am sensitive to it. I also understand what it is more than you or any other straight person could because I live with it. Just as a black person knows what racism is, just as a woman knows what sexism is. Taking those guildines and my ability to understand and spot homophobia all I have attempted to do is bring homophobia to peoples attentions and most often than not the admins and the rest of those in CC agree with what I am saying and restrict members because of it.

YOU are the one who needs to learn not to be so sensitive to remarks critical of the way you live. I understand the purpose of banning homophobes, but to say that I am a homophobe is akin to saying that I am a racist because I do not support black nationalism. You need to stop taking everything out of proportion.


These restrictions are not permenant anyway, and any final decision regarding a restriction is done by the administrators not by me. You used homophobic language in a a debate with me if you dont think you were being homophobic then that&#39;s not my problem, that&#39;s yours. The admins agreed with my argument and you were restricted, and in all honestly, I dont even know whether it was my argument that got you restricted.

The problem here isnt with me it&#39;s with peoples inability to see their own prejudice. If you dont believe me then there is nothing more I can say to you.

On the contrary, the people that I&#39;ve seen restricted when I was here, remain restricted to this day. (That immature Comrade Caususcau for example, but I understand that one). Not your arguement? Whose do you think it was? Who do you think started the thread?&#33; As for people not being able to see through their prejudice, restricting them won&#39;t solve the problem. Talking to them and explaining things will, and even if they dont understand immediately, they will most likely come around eventually, which definately won&#39;t happen if you insist on silencing them. Homophobia is one thing, but kicking people out just for being even slightly critical is rediculous.


But gay oppression does not exist solely in that form there are many different forms of homophobia which are equally as disturbing and should be fought against as much. It is difficult to try and get people to understand this because the social norm is very prejudice towards gay people. Even those people who consider themselves to be "liberal" are actually homophobic. One debate that I started was abou this very thing. It was written by some guy who said it had nothing against gay people aslong as they didnt protest about it. What he actually means by that is, that gay people are acceptable in society as long as they dont protest against the injustices that are brought against them. Such as gay marriage, inheretence rights, the age of consent. Many people agree, that gay people are perfectly ok to do what they do in their own home as long as they do not expect the same rights as everyone else. Whether this is conscious or not is irrelevant. Just because someone may not realize what they are doing and may not associate it with homophobia does not stop it from being homophobia. Having a minority legislated against is wrong, its barbaric and it has to stop and these so called liberals also have to be challanged.

There you go, taking everything to the extreme again. Hatred of gays is one thing, but if a person isn&#39;t confortable around a homosexual, then what businuss is it of yours?


I am unsure exactly how you know anything about my private conversations with the admins or any one else for that matter. I didnt not request your restriction because of you do not want to talk about masturbation in a room full of naked men, and in fact I think you know that. I requested your restriction because you did, whether you want to admit it or not, use homophobic language, and homophobes do not have the right to the entire board. I have made it my business to make sure that homophobes on here do not have the ability to infect it. Just as I hope everyone else does in regards to this, racism, sexism, national chauvinism and fascism.

As far as I understand it nobodies restriction is permenant, so you do have the opporuntity to correct your misguided opinions.

I do not think I used homophobic language. Your arguement in that thread seemed to be implying that if you didn&#39;t get with a bunch of guys, strip naked, and start talking about masterbation then there was something wrong with you. Nowhere in that thread did I say anything along the lines of "the only place I should ever see a fag is hanging from a tree". I merely gave a critical arguement against what you thought people should do. I support gay marriage and I think that they should be given the same rights as everyone else, but somehow, being critical of their lifestyle, promiscuity in your case, makes me a homophobe? Lastly, it doesn&#39;t take a rocket scientist to know that you were driving force in lobbying to both get me kicked out of CC and again when I got restricted.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 06:44 PM
Then why are you here?
To debate with leftists.


Have I ever said it is acceptable to be homophobic?

No.


I think you are blowing this way out of proportion.

I know.


If people have homophobic leaning tendancies then they will grow out of them simply by being here and listening to what we have to say.

I hope so.


Unless someone outright says something along the line of "Kill all the faggots" then I don&#39;t think they should get resticted.

You are entitled to you opinion. However, that is not the opinion of the admins or the majority of CC.


YOU are the one who needs to learn not to be so sensitive to remarks critical of the way you live.

I presume you are implying my oversenstivity is negative. I have explained in detail why I do not agree. They are being critical of my sexuality, that is wrong and I have said so and will continue to say so.


I understand the purpose of banning homophobes,

Good.


but to say that I am a homophobe is akin to saying that I am a racist because I do not support black nationalism. You need to stop taking everything out of proportion.

Of course peoplemay not think you are being homophobic. People may not even want to be homophobic. It is obviously completely unconscious to them, it is not uncommon. That dosnt stop what people say from being homophobic. As I explained it is not just hatred, im not saying you hate gay people, it is also an attitude.


As for people not being able to see through their prejudice, restricting them won&#39;t solve the problem.

I agree, but this website is not designed to cater for homophbes. Unfortunatly in the real world ther isnt a restrict button, but in che-lives, a message board for leftists there is, and we do not have to tolerate it.

People in OI have the ability to correct their mistakes. They have not been banned and they have the right to bring up any social and political issue they choose and have it debated. If they do not change their attitude why should they be unrestricted.


Talking to them and explaining things will, and even if they dont understand immediately, they will most likely come around eventually, which definately won&#39;t happen if you insist on silencing them.

Nobody has been silenced they have been removed from the rest of the board in order for leftists to debate left wing issues with left wing people. I agree that talking and explaining things is important, especially in a message board, but actually, when trying to do that, people will not listen, they will not learn, and in fact accuse you of *****ing, or back stabbing, or calling everyone names. People do not want to be wrong, and very often than not they will not accept the argument. Maybe that has something to do with restriction or maybe it&#39;s because people have a very hard time saying "i am wrong."


There you go, taking everything to the extreme again. Hatred of gays is one thing, but if a person isn&#39;t confortable around a homosexual, then what businuss is it of yours?

Because these people run the world. Straight, white men. They control the world, and it is these attitudes that have to be challanged. This opinion of feeling uncomfortable is not only rediculas but a little mad. Why does a person who has sex with the same sex make someone uncomfortable. These differences create oppression and have to be challanged. And it is my business because I do not want to make other people uncomfortable. I want to be accepted as an equal.


I do not think I used homophobic language. Your arguement in that thread seemed to be implying that if you didn&#39;t get with a bunch of guys, strip naked, and start talking about masterbation then there was something wrong with you.

That&#39;s not what I was saying at all. What I said was, if two straight men want to dance or want to sit naked in a room why is that wrong. What happened then was "straight" men suddenly started, without provocation, defending their sexualities. I told them that I wasnt implying they were gay and then was told that these feelings just exist. I then asked why and was accused of calling everyone a homophobe. I never implied it was wrong to not want to do those things I was simply asking why people would feel uncomfortable doing it.


Nowhere in that thread did I say anything along the lines of "the only place I should ever see a fag is hanging from a tree".

And as I have explained homophobia is not just about wanting to kill gay people.


I merely gave a critical arguement against what you thought people should do

No you didnt&#33; You called me and my friends names and then accused me of random things.


I support gay marriage and I think that they should be given the same rights as everyone else,

Good&#33;


but somehow, being critical of their lifestyle, promiscuity in your case, makes me a homophobe?

I am not premiscuas. I do not sleep with people I do not know. I do not go to clubs and fuck the nearest thing too me. I am mynogomus in my relationships unless we mutually consent and when I am not in a relationship those people I do have sex with are people I know, I like and I spend a lot of time with. To be critical of homoxeual lifestyle is a form of prejudice. I am sorry if you do not like that fact, but as you have said it is important for people to listen to arguments and change their minds.


Lastly, it doesn&#39;t take a rocket scientist to know that you were driving force in lobbying to both get me kicked out of CC and again when I got restricted.

I do not have magic powers which i can use to make the admins do what I want them to do. I do not force people to listen to me or accept my arguments. The admins do what they do and people accept what theyt believe to be right. If the admins didnt agree with my arguments then they would have restricted you. Obviously the admins, the people who own and run this board, agreed with me......

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Then why are you here?


To debate with leftists.

I happen to be a leftist. I think your opinion of a "leftist" includes only those who think and do exactly like you.


YOU are the one who needs to learn not to be so sensitive to remarks critical of the way you live.


I presume you are implying my oversenstivity is negative. I have explained in detail why I do not agree. They are being critical of my sexuality, that is wrong and I have said so and will continue to say so.

What I said was in retaliation to your critisizm of stright people who don&#39;t sit around naked talking about masterbation. It was in no way intended to be an attack on your sexuality.


Of course peoplemay not think you are being homophobic. People may not even want to be homophobic. It is obviously completely unconscious to them, it is not uncommon. That dosnt stop what people say from being homophobic. As I explained it is not just hatred, im not saying you hate gay people, it is also an attitude.

Just because a person is critical of some of the things that homosexuals do does not in any way make them homophobic. I would be equally concerned if a bunch of stright people did that if it is of any condolance.


As for people not being able to see through their prejudice, restricting them won&#39;t solve the problem.


I agree, but this website is not designed to cater for homophbes. Unfortunatly in the real world ther isnt a restrict button, but in che-lives, a message board for leftists there is, and we do not have to tolerate it.

People in OI have the ability to correct their mistakes. They have not been banned and they have the right to bring up any social and political issue they choose and have it debated. If they do not change their attitude why should they be unrestricted.

Restricting/banning homophobes is good (ex. "kill all the faggots") but this is being blown way out of proportion.


Talking to them and explaining things will, and even if they dont understand immediately, they will most likely come around eventually, which definately won&#39;t happen if you insist on silencing them.


Nobody has been silenced they have been removed from the rest of the board in order for leftists to debate left wing issues with left wing people. I agree that talking and explaining things is important, especially in a message board, but actually, when trying to do that, people will not listen, they will not learn, and in fact accuse you of *****ing, or back stabbing, or calling everyone names. People do not want to be wrong, and very often than not they will not accept the argument. Maybe that has something to do with restriction or maybe it&#39;s because people have a very hard time saying "i am wrong."

Most of the time, when people get resticted they leave this board. Maybe you didn&#39;t outright silence them, but its all to the same effect. Furthermore "being wrong" is hardly justification for restriction. If it was, then we would have to restrict probably 1/2 the people who participated in every thread.


There you go, taking everything to the extreme again. Hatred of gays is one thing, but if a person isn&#39;t confortable around a homosexual, then what businuss is it of yours?


Because these people run the world. Straight, white men. They control the world, and it is these attitudes that have to be challanged. This opinion of feeling uncomfortable is not only rediculas but a little mad. Why does a person who has sex with the same sex make someone uncomfortable. These differences create oppression and have to be challanged. And it is my business because I do not want to make other people uncomfortable. I want to be accepted as an equal.

Guys get uncomfortable around hot women (most of them), but does that mean we go and round up and shoot all the worlds horny guys? Big fat ugly old smelly people scare some small children, so does that mean we go and send all the brats to reeducation camps? There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable.


I do not think I used homophobic language. Your arguement in that thread seemed to be implying that if you didn&#39;t get with a bunch of guys, strip naked, and start talking about masterbation then there was something wrong with you.


That&#39;s not what I was saying at all. What I said was, if two straight men want to dance or want to sit naked in a room why is that wrong. What happened then was "straight" men suddenly started, without provocation, defending their sexualities. I told them that I wasnt implying they were gay and then was told that these feelings just exist. I then asked why and was accused of calling everyone a homophobe. I never implied it was wrong to not want to do those things I was simply asking why people would feel uncomfortable doing it.

The way you said it seemed to imply that if you didn&#39;t, then you had some deep rooted subconscious homophobia. If you ask that sort of question to a bunch of stright people, espeically in a place like OI, then what do you expect to hear?&#33;


Nowhere in that thread did I say anything along the lines of "the only place I should ever see a fag is hanging from a tree".


And as I have explained homophobia is not just about wanting to kill gay people.

Ok then, where did I say, "I hate all those fucking faggots&#33;"


but somehow, being critical of their lifestyle, promiscuity in your case, makes me a homophobe?


I am not premiscuas. I do not sleep with people I do not know. I do not go to clubs and fuck the nearest thing too me. I am mynogomus in my relationships unless we mutually consent and when I am not in a relationship those people I do have sex with are people I know, I like and I spend a lot of time with. To be critical of homoxeual lifestyle is a form of prejudice. I am sorry if you do not like that fact, but as you have said it is important for people to listen to arguments and change their minds.

You said before that you lived with two other homosexual men, I am not going to ask what happens from there, but I don&#39;t think it&#39;s very monogamous. So what? You get their names and phone numbers first? Just out of curiousity, how many men exactly have you done any sort of sexual activity with?


Lastly, it doesn&#39;t take a rocket scientist to know that you were driving force in lobbying to both get me kicked out of CC and again when I got restricted.


I do not have magic powers which i can use to make the admins do what I want them to do. I do not force people to listen to me or accept my arguments. The admins do what they do and people accept what theyt believe to be right. If the admins didnt agree with my arguments then they would have restricted you. Obviously the admins, the people who own and run this board, agreed with me...

Believe it or not, you have the power to influence other people&#39;s opinions, and if it weren&#39;t for you, many of the people who are banned/restricted now would still be regular members.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by MiDnIgHt[email protected] 15 2004, 08:26 PM
I happen to be a leftist
That is debatable.


I think your opinion of a "leftist" includes only those who think and do exactly like you.

The arguement I you have put forward to validate this I have already attempted to refute. If you don&#39;t believe me then there is little I can do to change that. Please stop repeating yourself, it&#39;s getting boring.


What I said was in retaliation to your critisizm of stright people who don&#39;t sit around naked talking about masterbation.

*sigh* I didnt critisize anyone for not wanting to sit around naked talking about masturbation. Stop acting like a child and pay attention. I can not say the same thing any differently to the way I have said it the last three, four, five times already.

The Anarchist Tension

That&#39;s not what I was saying at all. What I said was, if two straight men want to dance or want to sit naked in a room why is that wrong. What happened then was "straight" men suddenly started, without provocation, defending their sexualities. I told them that I wasnt implying they were gay and then was told that these feelings just exist. I then asked why and was accused of calling everyone a homophobe. I never implied it was wrong to not want to do those things I was simply asking why people would feel uncomfortable doing it.


Just because a person is critical of some of the things that homosexuals do does not in any way make them homophobic...

...Restricting/banning homophobes is good (ex. "kill all the faggots") but this is being blown way out of proportion...

Ok then, where did I say, "I hate all those fucking faggots&#33;"

The Anarchist Tension

But gay oppression does not exist solely in that form there are many different forms of homophobia which are equally as disturbing and should be fought against as much. It is difficult to try and get people to understand this because the social norm is very prejudice towards gay people. Even those people who consider themselves to be "liberal" are actually homophobic. One debate that I started was abou this very thing. It was written by some guy who said it had nothing against gay people aslong as they didnt protest about it. What he actually means by that is, that gay people are acceptable in society as long as they dont protest against the injustices that are brought against them. Such as gay marriage, inheretence rights, the age of consent. Many people agree, that gay people are perfectly ok to do what they do in their own home as long as they do not expect the same rights as everyone else. Whether this is conscious or not is irrelevant. Just because someone may not realize what they are doing and may not associate it with homophobia does not stop it from being homophobia. Having a minority legislated against is wrong, its barbaric and it has to stop and these so called liberals also have to be challanged.

The Anarchist Tension

Of course peoplemay not think you are being homophobic. People may not even want to be homophobic. It is obviously completely unconscious to them, it is not uncommon. That dosnt stop what people say from being homophobic. As I explained it is not just hatred, im not saying you hate gay people, it is also an attitude.


Most of the time, when people get resticted they leave this board.

That&#39;s there choice.


Maybe you didn&#39;t outright silence them, but its all to the same effect. Furthermore "being wrong" is hardly justification for restriction. If it was, then we would have to restrict probably 1/2 the people who participated in every thread.

The Anarchist Tension

Nobody has been silenced they have been removed from the rest of the board in order for leftists to debate left wing issues with left wing people. I agree that talking and explaining things is important, especially in a message board, but actually, when trying to do that, people will not listen, they will not learn, and in fact accuse you of *****ing, or back stabbing, or calling everyone names. People do not want to be wrong, and very often than not they will not accept the argument. Maybe that has something to do with restriction or maybe it&#39;s because people have a very hard time saying "i am wrong."


Guys get uncomfortable around hot women (most of them), but does that mean we go and round up and shoot all the worlds horny guys? Big fat ugly old smelly people scare some small children, so does that mean we go and send all the brats to reeducation camps? There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable.

Would it be acceptable for someone to uncomfortable around a black person? Would it be acceptable for someone to uncomfortable around a Jewish person or a disabled person? These attitudes are what cause oppression. They are not the same as being uncomfortable around an attractive woman or being scared of an old person. Attractive women and ugly old people arent legislated against.


If you ask that sort of question to a bunch of stright people, espeically in a place like OI, then what do you expect to hear?&#33;

You got me there...


You said before that you lived with two other homosexual men, I am not going to ask what happens from there, but I don&#39;t think it&#39;s very monogamous.

One of them was gay, the other was bisexual, as was my boyfriend. Nevertheless, any fun we had envolved both me and my boyfriend and we both consentant to it. I would never sleep with someone behind my partners back.


So what? You get their names and phone numbers first?

You&#39;re like an 7 year old school boy who&#39;s been asked by his mom if they have a girlfriend, it&#39;s really quite sad...Since I broke up with my boyfriend I have found two wonderful men with which I have conducted a sexual relationship with. One of these men I new previously and whom now has a girlfriend, the other I met at a friends house. We hit it off, we spent time together, we got to know each other and we have sex when we see each other. I am not in a relationship with him, he is not in a relationship with me. I am not sure if he has other sexual partners, as it happens I do not. We have fun, we enjoy each others company, in free, it&#39;s easy and there&#39;s no strings attached. It&#39;s how we both like it...

Do you know what I think your problem is...You&#39;re not getting any. In fact, I think you&#39;re jealous because I am, and because I am loving every minute of it...why dont you go out and get laid, then maybe you wont be so uptight.


Just out of curiousity, how many men exactly have you done any sort of sexual activity with?

<_< How big&#39;s your cock?


Believe it or not, you have the power to influence other people&#39;s opinions,

No&#33; I have no power or responsability over what people choose to think. I give my opinion, people can either accept, debate it or reject it. They can listen or they can choose not to listen. I am not responsable to anyone. People make their own choices. If any of the people I have asked to be restricted wanted to educate themselves and change their minds then they could have chosen to do so. They did not.

[redstar2000]

I visited "Revolutionindia&#39;s" new choice for a message board. In a three-page thread on Syria as "the next American target", neither the word nor the concept of imperialism appeared...until I posted.

They seem to be rather naive political science majors; they can find Syria on a map and speak "learnedly" about Syrian minorities, but they seem to take the "new world order" -- free markets and bourgeois democracy -- with the upmost seriousness.

Their disagreement with Bush & Co. seems to be that the current "administration" is incompetent. "Right goals; wrong methods."

Utterly clueless.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I happen to be a leftist


That is debatable.

I would say the same about you.


Most of the time, when people get resticted they leave this board.


That&#39;s there choice.

I&#39;d bet if you got restricted, it wouldn&#39;t take long for you to get fed up and leave either.


Guys get uncomfortable around hot women (most of them), but does that mean we go and round up and shoot all the worlds horny guys? Big fat ugly old smelly people scare some small children, so does that mean we go and send all the brats to reeducation camps? There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable.


Would it be acceptable for someone to uncomfortable around a black person? Would it be acceptable for someone to uncomfortable around a Jewish person or a disabled person? These attitudes are what cause oppression. They are not the same as being uncomfortable around an attractive woman or being scared of an old person. Attractive women and ugly old people arent legislated against.

Yes, it is acceptable to be uncomfortable around anyone. I happen to feel a degree of discomfort around everyone. With some more then others, but I am uncomfortable around anyone no matter who it is to some degree. (Ex. I would be rather nervous about singing and dancing like a fool in front of someone, even more if I didn&#39;t know that person, where I would feel quite confortable doing it alone.) Being uncomfortable doesn&#39;t cause oppression, hate does, and the first definately does not always lead to the other. On the contrary, it is quite possible to make legislation against certain catagories of people, like fat ugly old people, but we don&#39;t, because the government at least knows that doing so would be utterly ludicrus, something I can&#39;t say for most people however, but I have yet to see a "deport all ugly fat old people" movement get started, mainly because most of our government would fall into that catagory.


If you ask that sort of question to a bunch of stright people, espeically in a place like OI, then what do you expect to hear?&#33;


You got me there...

I&#39;m starting to think you go actively go looking to try and get people banned/restricted, especially when you go asking a question like that to the likes of Loknar.


You said before that you lived with two other homosexual men, I am not going to ask what happens from there, but I don&#39;t think it&#39;s very monogamous.


One of them was gay, the other was bisexual, as was my boyfriend. Nevertheless, any fun we had envolved both me and my boyfriend and we both consentant to it. I would never sleep with someone behind my partners back.

That is THREE people simultaniously&#33; Petes sake you&#39;ve only got 2 holes&#33; Definately not monogamous.


So what? You get their names and phone numbers first?


You&#39;re like an 7 year old school boy who&#39;s been asked by his mom if they have a girlfriend, it&#39;s really quite sad...Since I broke up with my boyfriend I have found two wonderful men with which I have conducted a sexual relationship with. One of these men I new previously and whom now has a girlfriend, the other I met at a friends house. We hit it off, we spent time together, we got to know each other and we have sex when we see each other. I am not in a relationship with him, he is not in a relationship with me. I am not sure if he has other sexual partners, as it happens I do not. We have fun, we enjoy each others company, in free, it&#39;s easy and there&#39;s no strings attached. It&#39;s how we both like it...

Do you know what I think your problem is...You&#39;re not getting any. In fact, I think you&#39;re jealous because I am, and because I am loving every minute of it...why dont you go out and get laid, then maybe you wont be so uptight.

If you were with one man in a long and healty relationship, then I would be happy for you, and yes, maybe even a bit jealous for the fact that you found love, but hearing that you have sexual relations with multipule people at the same time who you are not even committed to is just appauling. Behavior like that is why we have problems with HIV/AIDS.


Just out of curiousity, how many men exactly have you done any sort of sexual activity with?


How big&#39;s your cock?

I was trying to prove my point about you being promiscuous, but you did that for me above, as for the cock thing, wouldn&#39;t you love to know?


Believe it or not, you have the power to influence other people&#39;s opinions,


No&#33; I have no power or responsability over what people choose to think. I give my opinion, people can either accept, debate it or reject it. They can listen or they can choose not to listen. I am not responsable to anyone. People make their own choices. If any of the people I have asked to be restricted wanted to educate themselves and change their minds then they could have chosen to do so. They did not.

Everyone has some power over what other people think. Before I gave my "reactionary" ideas on abortion, no one had even heard of that concept. You know why? Because I totally made it up on my own. My idea of shared rights to a fetus are absolutely unheard of. You know why some members now have the same opinion of abortion as I? Because I convinced them. Just like you have the power to convince people that I am a reactionary rightist. Furthermore, I should not have to "educate" myself and change my mind about my opinions just because you don&#39;t like them. In fact, quite a many Che-Livers and a few CC members have sided with me on my opinions on things like abortion and your views on "sexual liberation", and I think that is something you anarchists perceive as a threat because I am changing people&#39;s minds in ways that you don&#39;t like. Other opinions like my wanting to abolish all drugs and alcohol, are extremely unpopular, but why should I have to change my views to conform with yours?

[Vinny Rafarino]

I do not sleep with people I do not know.


I do.






Mr. Maurader,

It is clear that no one will get through to you until you are more gwowed up. I was hoping that you would consider the fact that TAT and I RARELY agree on ANYTHING and to be honest, he annoys me. I&#39;m sure that I annoy him just as much. The point was that you have limited understanding of the human psyche and how certain individuals will instinctively react to certain stimuli.

I was hoping you (since you obviously consider YOURSELF to be highly intelligent) would actually sit and piece together the actual reasons why Mr. Tension reacts the way he does to certain comments.

I mean really mate, it ain&#39;t that hard to figure out.

It must be easy for you to trivialize the man&#39;s own personal and social struggle right? Is that because you happen to be a white, heterosexual male? How exactly does Mr. Tension&#39;s aversion to even the slightest hint of homophobia upset the equilibrium of your little world? Why exactly do you feel so compelled to get the cat to relax? What if he DOESN&#39;T want to relax? What if he feels compelled to tell EVERYONE and their mother he is gay and that&#39;s that? What if being silenced in any way at all (remind yourself of his politics) can possibly adversely affect his psychological stability.

Did you know that individuals with serotonin system disorders can possible live their entire lives without ever developing any specific manifestations of that disorder? Did you also know that mental trauma can easily cause these manifestations that would otherwise lay dormant begin to show themselves? Not that this is the case here, but who knows? People that are genetically pre-disposed to serotonin system disorders (two of the most common being anorexia and bulimia nervosa) usually show signs of a disorder after suffering some sort of psychological trauma.

I reckon you never thought of that right? Perhaps from now on you will think a little further into an issue prior to breaking balls for the sake of breaking balls. Some issues are just BIGGER than you.

[synthesis]

This is by far the shittiest thread I&#39;ve seen in a long time. It was shitty when it started, it was shitty up until now, and I can&#39;t see any end to the shittiness any time in the near future.

I will not take sides here except to say that the people involved should really consider the "kiss and make up" option. Throw some tongue in there if it floats your boat.

If there is a moderator who vehemently disagrees that this thread is as shitty as I have stated, then they may unlock it.

[Vinny Rafarino]

I would like to give Mr. Maurader a chance to reply to my previous post. If that reply is simply to get in the "last word" then I will lock it up again.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I do not sleep with people I do not know.


I do.

Well, I feel strongly against that, but ultimately it is your own decision. I, just like you, am entitled to my own opinion.


It is clear that no one will get through to you until you are more gwowed up. I was hoping that you would consider the fact that TAT and I RARELY agree on ANYTHING and to be honest, he annoys me. I&#39;m sure that I annoy him just as much. The point was that you have limited understanding of the human psyche and how certain individuals will instinctively react to certain stimuli.

I was hoping you (since you obviously consider YOURSELF to be highly intelligent) would actually sit and piece together the actual reasons why Mr. Tension reacts the way he does to certain comments.

I mean really mate, it ain&#39;t that hard to figure out.

It must be easy for you to trivialize the man&#39;s own personal and social struggle right? Is that because you happen to be a white, heterosexual male? How exactly does Mr. Tension&#39;s aversion to even the slightest hint of homophobia upset the equilibrium of your little world? Why exactly do you feel so compelled to get the cat to relax? What if he DOESN&#39;T want to relax? What if he feels compelled to tell EVERYONE and their mother he is gay and that&#39;s that? What if being silenced in any way at all (remind yourself of his politics) can possibly adversely affect his psychological stability.

Did you know that individuals with serotonin system disorders can possible live their entire lives without ever developing any specific manifestations of that disorder? Did you also know that mental trauma can easily cause these manifestations that would otherwise lay dormant begin to show themselves? Not that this is the case here, but who knows? People that are genetically pre-disposed to serotonin system disorders (two of the most common being anorexia and bulimia nervosa) usually show signs of a disorder after suffering some sort of psychological trauma.

I reckon you never thought of that right? Perhaps from now on you will think a little further into an issue prior to breaking balls for the sake of breaking balls. Some issues are just BIGGER than you.

If TAT can&#39;t handle a little mental stress, then I would suggest he get some medication, and move into the little house with the padded walls where the fine people dressed in white will take wonderful care of him. If it is damaging to Mr. TAT&#39;s fragile virgin ears to hear some critisizm of his flamboyant homosexual lifestyle, then perhaps he should avoid making posts like that in Opposing Ideologies. If Mr. TAT goes actively looking to get some critisizm in that manner, then that is exactly what he is going to get, and if he doesn&#39;t like it, its up to get to get away from it. We shouldn&#39;t have to silence ourselves just because we would want to put any emotional pressure on Mr. TAT fragile psyche. Weather or not an issue is bigger then me is completely irrelevant. Argueing and debating is what people do on a forum, and that is exactly what I am going to do, regardless of what the topic is, if I have something to say about it, then I am going to say it.

EDIT:

This is by far the shittiest thread I&#39;ve seen in a long time. It was shitty when it started, it was shitty up until now, and I can&#39;t see any end to the shittiness any time in the near future.

You seem to be implying that I am a shitty poster. <_< If you think its so shitty then perhaps you should consider clicking on that little X on the top right hand corner of your screen.

[Individual]

Not to further debate past MM&#39;s response.

However thought I&#39;d add my quick two cents concerning this reply:


I&#39;d bet if you got restricted, it wouldn&#39;t take long for you to get fed up and leave either.

MM.

Notice my restriction. I was not restricted for anything near a proposal from TAT for one. For two, I wasn&#39;t about to &#39;get fed up and leave&#39; as you suggest. For three, if you feel that what you did was justifiable, and your restriction was incorrect, the best way to go about being un-restricted is to not sit and whine about it.

Go about it respectfully (not by wishing AIDS upon TAT and furthering your homophobic status), and present yourself in semi-decent fashion so that considerations might be made for your forgiveness. Instead you took it way to far, and started digging your hole with a tractor instead of your previous slow pace of a shovel. When I was restricted, I sure as hell didn&#39;t take it as you did, and while I was curious as to why I was restricted, I didn&#39;t get emotional and rage out in the manner that you have.

So for you to say that those that just get &#39;fed up and leave&#39;; it is either because you realized what you did was completely unforgiveable, or you lie to heavily upon your status hear, and you took it as an ego crush in which you felt your ego had been damaged. Grow up, pull yourself togethor, and get over it. You are getting nowhere by dwelling on the fact, focus on trying to get out.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Well I reckon that&#39;s that then.