Lychurgus

[Comrade BNS]

What are people's views on Lychurgus the Spartan law-giver? His law code governed the Spartan people from around 660 B.C to the fall of Sparta, although some Pelloponesians still adhere to many moral codes developed by Lychurgus... Could he have early communist ideals (and please, it's a shame I have to explain this, look at it contexturaly. Slaves, inequality of women etc... were an accepted part of society then)

Comrade BNS

P.S if you don't know anything about Lychurgus please don't post your ignorant oppinions based on what you think you know Sparta was like.

[Comrade BNS]

Come on!! someone must have heard of lychurgus? if not go find out about him, as leftists and egalitarians you owe it to yourselves to find out about him!

Comrade BNS

[Ian]

This post is to spare you the embarassment you would get if you received no replies.

[Hiero]

I dont get what you mean with

Could he have early communist ideals (and please, it's a shame I have to explain this, look at it contexturaly. Slaves, inequality of women etc... were an accepted part of society then)

He was to excast oposite of a communist, the slave class outnumbered the ruling spartiates 20 to 1.

[Comrade BNS]

*urgh*


He was to excast oposite of a communist, the slave class outnumbered the ruling spartiates 20 to 1.

NO SHIT!

but among the citizens of sparta there was amazing egalitarian ideals and codes. To use George Orwell's well conceived analogy, we don't give a second thought to the right's of animals in most cases so long as they are well fed and looked after etc... it would just be whacked out to say dogs and whales should have the right to vote on world issues. In ancient Sparta the attitude to slaves was exactly the same. SO, leaving that aside as a contextural nuance, Lychurgus gave sparta some very fair, open minded and egalitarian laws. READ ABOUT THEM!

Comrade BNS

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 19 2004, 03:36 PM
*urgh*


NO SHIT!

Come on!! someone must have heard of lychurgus? if not go find out about him, as leftists and egalitarians you owe it to yourselves to find out about him!

please, it's a shame I have to explain this, look at it contexturaly

P.S if you don't know anything about Lychurgus please don't post your ignorant oppinions based on what you think you know Sparta was like.


New guy, youd better watch a bit more about what you say. Dont underestimate us and take us all for ignorant people. If we know not what you are talking about dont respond with your "NO SHIT!" as if we were idiots.

And as a leftist you should not act as though your smarter than us.

Personal attacks are not allowed in this forum- so stop

[Hiero]

Fact is Sparta was not communist, it was more facist. It was extremley xenophobic, it was a oligarchy with 30 men most of the time controling the government. Once a sparten turned 30 then he was allowed rights adn right to vote on issues although if the ephors(5 men) didnt like the outcome then it could dismiss the vote. Sparta was far off being communist.

[Comrade BNS]

Lychurgus as having communist-esque ideals is very different to the Spartan oligarchy which arose several hundred years later!

And since this has turned into a discussion about Spartan society (which is exactly what i was aiming away from but any way...), How about the fact that all men over 18 had equal rights within the millitary. A wet behind the ears soldier could challenge the decisions etc.. of his commander and or/general. This fact led to Generals and commanders really having to earn and deserve their position as otherwise they would not gain the trust of their soldiers.

And then yes at age 30 all men were completely equal citizens. Each having the right to vote, each receiving the same amount of rations, each receiving the same amount of land etc..

but how about you find out about Lychurgus?

Comrade BNS

[Hiero]

How about the fact that all men over 18 had equal rights within the millitary. A wet behind the ears soldier could challenge the decisions etc.. of his commander and or/general
No they couldnt, your just guesing arent you


How about the fact that all men over 18 had equal rights within the millitary. A wet behind the ears soldier could challenge the decisions etc.. of his commander and or/general
You mean if they reached 30 and survived all the fighting then they were allowed in teh assembly which when it a had a vote on bills that chosen by the ephors(5 people) or the geruiosa(60 people encluding the 2 kings) there vote could be called invalid and not matter.
So really even in the spartiate citizens (20 to 1 compared ot slaves) it was still a oligarchy.

[Comrade BNS]

Ok you have clearly missed the point here, what i was trying to point out was that egalitarian outlooks have existed for a long time, and most have a different and unique perspective that we could learn from.

and btw please don't challenge me on historical facts with puerile, naive responses you got from your teacher or your textbook.

Comrade BNS

[Hiero]

"OOOH i am sorry master of historical facts who was already got a number of them wrong already, i bow down to you"

And what is wrong with the teahcer of ancient history and my textbooks are you impleying that the basic facts they have on sparta wih i havent seen different anywhere else must be wrong, and that you have the coorect answers.

Stop trying to act hardcore you dont impress anyone

[The Red Factor]

Hey BNS, what's the point of this discussion if you won't debate certain facts or issues? Don't just say he's wrong proove it! If you can't then he may be right and everyone will learn something, isn't that just great :D. If you were just trying to point out certain things let someone else point out what they think is a mistake, it's only fair because everyone's opinion should be taken seriously.

[Comrade BNS]

Originally posted by comrade [email protected] 30 2004, 12:48 PM
"OOOH i am sorry master of historical facts who was already got a number of them wrong already, i bow down to you"

And what is wrong with the teahcer of ancient history and my textbooks are you impleying that the basic facts they have on sparta wih i havent seen different anywhere else must be wrong, and that you have the coorect answers.

Stop trying to act hardcore you dont impress anyone
lol.....sorry i just can't take any one seriously who says "coorect" lol!!

What is wrong with textbooks and ancient history school teachers? well basically most textbooks only contain the most basic well affirmed facts and never step outside the box concerning context of ancient sources. And school teachers are trained entirely on those books. why don't you read some Roebuck or Hallton?

lol and I'm amazed you have the gall to come right out and say that I am historically "wrong" a very bold claim for a student of ancient history...even the experts of the field use the terms "wrong" and "historically inaccurate" with great unease and very sparingly.

and in this case i think the onus of proof is on Neonate to prove me wrong since they claim that I am.

Comrade BNS

[Hiero]

Great comeback in trying to redemm yourself by trying to make a joke at my typing, but see you still havent proved your facts to be accurate.

So you telling me that the textbook can step on basic facts which you have got wrong. Then when i have made comment back on what you said and gave the corret terms whic you left out which has proved you wrong you didnt come back at me.

So far you have proved to me that you know a little bit of sparta, not yet to give examples and terms so you adviod a discussion or you think you are supior to me so youi dont have to answer me because its a waste of time.

Which one is it

[Comrade BNS]

sorry if your going to make me choose something you have to give me choices...or at least make them legible...

and like I said you claim I'm "wrong" so prove it.

Comrade BNS

[Hiero]

Why dont you just admit that you know little about sparta, and you have read a bit about lychurgus thought of him as being a great man and have somehow link it in your mind to communism so you can claim that the famous Lychurgus was a communist

And i have proved you wrong in one of my other post in this thread, im waiting for you to respond so i can give more backing, but your an idiot so it isnt working.

[Comrade BNS]

ok mate what exactly do you want me to say? I am just retelling what I have learnt from true and very comprehensive sources (roebuck etc...)...do you want me to write a note to your school asking them to give you an A for ancient history? or would you prefer it if I gave you a gold sticker?

Don't bandy bullshit with me here, I said Lychurgus was an ancient incarnation of leftist ideals...no one said anything about communism. But if you'd rather argue about trivial shit like what his favorite colour was then let's have it!

Comrade BNS

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 12 2004, 05:02 AM
Lychurgus... Could he have early communist ideals

Ok so im just going to say your an idiot who doesnt know much and cant even have a simple debate.


P.S if you don't know anything about Lychurgus please don't post your ignorant oppinions based on what you think you know Sparta was like.

Hey thats you.

[Ian]

One line warning: Dude, Sparta wasn't communist... I'm bored... pardon the spam.