Why do communists here critize the embarrgo???

[Y2A]

I am personally very against the U.S embarrgo to Cuba for the fact that it really puts a burden on the Cuban economy and hurts the Cuban people much more then it does the reguime. With that said why are the commies against it??? In a communist world there would be no trade what so ever. So why are you against this??? Isn't it a
self-contradiction???

[cormacobear]

It's only natural that we sympathize with people who have undertaken left wing Ideals in ourder to hoist there entire population out of deplorable poverty, only to have their efforts fail due to ridiculous capitalist vengeance and deplorable strong arm tactics. If the U.S. wants them to know about freedom it should allow them to chart their own course rather than forcing poverty on another nation because their values are different than the U.S. govt.'s.

[Y2A]

That is besides the point. A communist society would have no trade. So why are you people against it??? Or are you really "capitalist pigs"!

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 12:16 AM
That is besides the point. A communist society would have no trade. So why are you people against it??? Or are you really "capitalist pigs"!
Let's not resort to absurdity. A Communist society would also not have seperate nations, making trade impossible. Clearly Cuba isn't the only nation around. Trade is necessary in the present world, you of all people should realize that.

[Som]

Originally posted by Y[email protected] 12 2004, 12:16 AM
That is besides the point. A communist society would have no trade. So why are you people against it??? Or are you really "capitalist pigs"!
and Cuba is Socialist.


Socialist nations have currency, therefore they trade.

[timbaly]

I would say many people are against it because Cuba loses out big when a country as big as the US will not sell their goods. They're losing out on a big market and therefore lots of money that could be used to improve the nation. As for the no trade idea, where did you get it? Do you mean that a communistic state is not supposed to be involved in foriegn trade? The question is a little unclear to me.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 01:19 AM
and Cuba is Socialist.


Socialist nations have currency, therefore they trade.
Exactly (but not necesarilly an universal truth).

The embargo is there so that Cuba has limited resources, and so it can't get those that they need but they can't find on their territory. This way the economy sucks, and yankeeland expects this to bring "Communism" down so that they can come in and use that cheap labour and still live them on poverty, but taking huge profits.

[redstar2000]

Y2A, I don't think you understand the impact of the embargo or how it really works.

It's not simply a matter of America not buying Cuban sugar or cigars or Americans not being allowed to travel to Cuba as tourists.

Nor is it simply that the Cuban Government can't import high-tech goods manufactured in the United States.

It goes much further than that.

For example, suppose an American company owns a European subsidiary that makes...a high-tech goodie. Now suppose another European company purchases a truck-load of those goodies and turns around and sells them to Cuba.

First of all, that American subsidiary will never sell to that European company again (for violating the "not to be re-exported to Cuba" clause in the contract of sale).

Secondly, that European company can be prohibited from doing business in the United States at all.

Thirdly, if any employees of that European company ever happen to enter the United States, they can be fined and imprisoned...even though the "crime" took place outside of American jurisdiction...and was not a "crime" at all where it did take place.

The American Empire claims "universal jurisdiction" over any "crime" that it wishes to define in any way it pleases.

Under these conditions, it is extraordinarily difficult for Cuba to trade with any country or any business in other countries. Who's willing to give up all commercial relations with the huge American market and risk imprisonment so that Cubans can have computers or air-conditioners or aspirin?

Communists oppose the embargo not because they think that "free trade" is something "progressive"...but because the embargo is another example of the arrogance of empire!

An empire that will abundantly deserve its ultimate fate.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[kylie]

Every country needs trade, none is big enough to be able to specialize in all industries, or even be able to just produce all goods. in Cubas case obviously it cannot produce all the things it needs, so trade has to happen. Look at how Albania is, that is the result of a country attempting to be completely self-sufficiant.

[SlimJin]

Im currently putting a research paper together on this topic. Any good sites or books that can help me out with this? Oh and if it helps any Im arguing that the embargo is an unjustified act on the US' part.

[Winston Smith]

Untill there is one country and no money trade is a necessity.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 07:06 AM
Y2A, I don't think you understand the impact of the embargo or how it really works.

It's not simply a matter of America not buying Cuban sugar or cigars or Americans not being allowed to travel to Cuba as tourists.

Nor is it simply that the Cuban Government can't import high-tech goods manufactured in the United States.

It goes much further than that.

For example, suppose an American company owns a European subsidiary that makes...a high-tech goodie. Now suppose another European company purchases a truck-load of those goodies and turns around and sells them to Cuba.

First of all, that American subsidiary will never sell to that European company again (for violating the "not to be re-exported to Cuba" clause in the contract of sale).

Secondly, that European company can be prohibited from doing business in the United States at all.

Thirdly, if any employees of that European company ever happen to enter the United States, they can be fined and imprisoned...even though the "crime" took place outside of American jurisdiction...and was not a "crime" at all where it did take place.

The American Empire claims "universal jurisdiction" over any "crime" that it wishes to define in any way it pleases.

Under these conditions, it is extraordinarily difficult for Cuba to trade with any country or any business in other countries. Who's willing to give up all commercial relations with the huge American market and risk imprisonment so that Cubans can have computers or air-conditioners or aspirin?

Communists oppose the embargo not because they think that "free trade" is something "progressive"...but because the embargo is another example of the arrogance of empire!

An empire that will abundantly deserve its ultimate fate.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas
Actually RedStar, I said from the begining that I was against the embarrgo. :)

I am just pointing out that you people are angry at the fact that Cuba can not trade, but in a communist society trade would be abolished would it not????

[redstar2000]

...but in a communist society trade would be abolished, would it not????

Yes, of course.

The details might be rather intricate. How to introduce "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" on an international level would doubtlessly involve some extraordinarily complicated calculations.

I trust that 8th or 9th generation computers will be able to handle them.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[shyguywannadie]

U$A is a sick retard.

Washington punishes Canadian company for trading with Cuba

Washington, DC, March 17.—The U.S. government affirmed on Wednesday that a Canadian based travel agency has links with Cuba and thus is banned from doing business in the United States.

The Treasury Department measure against Hola Sun Holidays Ltd, based in Ontario, is the most recent within the strategy of President George Bush’ team to intensify the restrictions that prohibit travel to Cuba, with a few exceptions.

The travel agency facilitates U.S. citizens’ trips to Cuba, the department stated.

www.granma.cu

[Capitalist Imperial]

America will do what it needs to in order to preserve its ideals. We will not reward a dicatatorial regime like Cuba with the benefit of free trade until they establish a more democratic government. The trade embargo is not what is wrong with cuba. Cuba was 3rd world b4 the US trade embargo.

This is simly more trite leftist pap, blaming the US for the shortcomings of other nations.

Castro's regime should actually be thanking it's stars that we haven't conducted a full scale invasion to liberate the cuban people yet. Hopefully we will one day.

[Hate Is Art]

but you traded weapons with lots of un-democratic nations? and gave them aid? and supported them when the civilians tryed to gain a better life? how weird??


Cuba was 3rd world b4 the US trade embargo.


Cuba was also a puppet dictatorship before the embargo, they haven't had a chance to get out of their poverty.

It was another one of those evil un-democratic dictatorships that you refused to trade with.

[/QUOTE]Castro's regime should actually be thanking it's stars that we haven't conducted a full scale invasion to liberate the cuban people yet. Hopefully we will one day. [QUOTE]

On what grounds would you invade them? Not wanting to be america's little *****? thinking for them selves? trying something different?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Eventually, Cuba will have to yield to America, otherwise we will eventually take action to demoratize it, extending the olive branch of demcracy to another nation in desperate need of change.

Before any of you argue, why don't you ask the 100's of cubans heading for florida on decrpit rafts how great cuba is compared to the USA?

[shyguywannadie]

Why dont you ask the millions that are happy to stay

[redstar2000]

Eventually, Cuba will have to yield to America, otherwise we will eventually take action to demoratize it...


Sorry, no dictionaries indexed in the selected category contain the word demoratize.

Evidently CI has a fresh horror in store for Cuba...one that hasn't made the One Look dictionaries yet.

One can only wonder... :o

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Eventually, Cuba will have to yield to America

great, so now every latin american country has to do what the U.S. tells them? look what happens in mexico. look what happens in half of south america when countries do what the U.S. tells them to do. they get screwed. NAFTA will move in and take advantage of the workers because the leaders of these capitalist countries are so scared of the American government (along with being corrupt) that they won't do anything to protect their poor. and who benefits from all this? we do. somehow i don't feel good about gettin ahead on the backs of marginalized latinos...... Cuba is one of the only coutries that said "BASTA" and told the U.S. that they won't have power in that country. does that give American politicians the right to say 'ok, we're not trading with you anymore' of course it does. does it give us the right to say 'nobody else is either?' hell no it doesnt. i'd would think that people would have more compassion and common sense than that. its just arrogant and imperialistic for the embargo to continue

[Urban Rubble]

I am personally very against the U.S embarrgo to Cuba for the fact that it really puts a burden on the Cuban economy and hurts the Cuban people much more then it does the reguime. With that said why are the commies against it??? In a communist world there would be no trade what so ever. So why are you against this??? Isn't it a
self-contradiction???

Y2A, I am actually really suprised you even asked this. You're not this dumb.

The answer ? Simple, Cuba is not self sufficient. Cuba is not Communist, they are Socialist, meaning that the rest of the world is still mostly Capitalist. They have to trade to survive, to feed and shelter their people, there is no getting around that.

And also, another obvious point, the people are the ones being fucked by it, like you said. It say alot about Castro that he can still have such support among his people in a time like this. And I mean his real people, not the ones that live in Miami.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 19 2004, 03:29 AM

I am personally very against the U.S embarrgo to Cuba for the fact that it really puts a burden on the Cuban economy and hurts the Cuban people much more then it does the reguime. With that said why are the commies against it??? In a communist world there would be no trade what so ever. So why are you against this??? Isn't it a
self-contradiction???

Y2A, I am actually really suprised you even asked this. You're not this dumb.

The answer ? Simple, Cuba is not self sufficient. Cuba is not Communist, they are Socialist, meaning that the rest of the world is still mostly Capitalist. They have to trade to survive, to feed and shelter their people, there is no getting around that.

And also, another obvious point, the people are the ones being fucked by it, like you said. It say alot about Castro that he can still have such support among his people in a time like this. And I mean his real people, not the ones that live in Miami.

And I mean his real people, not the ones that live in Miami.

LOL, that is funny, "his real people"? Do you mean the ones that are so browbeat by his dictatorial regime that they dare not oppose his tyrannical rule? The ones that live in the slums while tourists stay at state-sponsored posh seaside resorts?

The real people are the ones that woke up, smelled the tobacco, and rigged a raft to FL. I commend them for seeing the light. There are more on the way as we speak.

[Urban Rubble]

Do you mean the ones that are so browbeat by his dictatorial regime that they dare not oppose his tyrannical rule?

No, I mean the ones that actually live there and aren't brainwashed into thinking it some kind of slave state. Believe it or not, the majority of Cubans live happy lives and though times are very, still support Castro.


The ones that live in the slums while tourists stay at state-sponsored posh seaside resorts?

You know very well that that is a consequence of the Soviet Union breaking up and the U.S's 40 year embargo.

And most people do not live in "slums". Unless by slum you mean doesn't have a TV in every room and a fridge full of burritos and frozen pizzas.


The real people are the ones that woke up, smelled the tobacco, and rigged a raft to FL. I commend them for seeing the light.

If by smelled the tobacco you mean realized that they could no longer profit from the peasants wage slavery then yes, they "smelled the tobacco".