spain

[kingbee]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3502218.stm

almost 200 killed- but did eta do this?

the spanish goverment claims so, but
a) eta deny
b) there was no warning before, as eta usually does
c) it was a remote controlled bomb, not the technology that eta posesses.

it is claimed that al qaeida set off the bomb. does this mean that al qaedia are working closer to europe?

[monkeydust]

It could be ETA, that would be the most immediately likely suspect, though you give valid reasons as to why it might not be them.

Al qaeda, possibly, though the target seems fairly random, I never thought the Spanish were particularly high on their 'hit list'.

I suppose we'l just have to wait and see.........

[kingbee]

they did support the war, and i dunno why, but the moorish history kinda makes me think maybe.

but we just have to wait.

[Hate Is Art]

hmmm an interesting one, i think it was ETA and al-qaeda working together on it, but only time will tell.

[Invader Zim]

According to the BBC which I am listening to now, unconfirmed reposrts state Al Quada have actually claimed responcibility.

[sh0cker]

According to every media right now, what happened is that Arab newspaper in London received e-mail from group linked to Al Kaida, they are like sub-group, they did it because of Iraq, which is non-sence!

They gone MAD, they kill INNOCENT people, 200 of them! And someone is telling me that Iraq have rights, NO while they are doing this, they can do this any where in the world!

This is horrible, I just can't believe!

[demonio comunista]

yes it has been confirmed, IT WAS AL-QAEDA!!! assholes. i hate al-qaeda, and they said their huge strike on america is 90% done.
192 dead, 1400 wounded. thats messed up.
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp...910.htm&sc=1107 (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=NW_1-T&oldflok=FF-APO-1107&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040311%2F1622470910.htm&sc=1107)
theres the link if u wanna read all about it. i want them to invade so i can shoot some of them.

[timbaly]

I've heard that this group claiming responsibility on behalf of Al-Qaeda is actually very untrustworthy. They claimed responsibility for that black out in Ontario and the north eastern US which they had nothing to do with.

[FatFreeMilk]

Al qaeda, possibly, though the target seems fairly random, I never thought the Spanish were particularly high on their 'hit list'.

It's cus Spain is homies with the US. Well that's what they were saying on NPR. 3-11, 9-11 ?

[El Brujo]

It has been confirmed that it wasn't ETA. First off, it wasn't conducted in ETA style. ETA usually gives warnings about attacks and does small-scale operations. Furthermore, they found a van nearby with explosives and excerps from the Q'ran and al-Quaeda had claimed Spain as one of the targets for supporting the US. I don't support ETA at all but Im pretty sure they are in no way related to al-Qaeda.

If it was al-Qaeda, it most-definitely is a result of Aznar's support of the neo-con crusade against Iraq. Unfortunately, the people (of which 90% didn't support the war) are paying the price for that vermin's imperialism.

[Cambodia]

Multiple Blasts in Madrid Leave 192 Dead
Newspaper Receives Claim of Responsibilty in Name of al-Qaida
By MAR ROMAN, AP

MADRID, Spain (March 12) - A series of bombs hidden in backpacks exploded in quick succession Thursday, blowing apart four commuter trains and killing at least 192 people and wounding more than 1,400. Spain at first blamed Basque separatists but a shadowy group claimed responsibility in the name of al-Qaida for the worst terrorist attack in Spanish history.

Panicked rush-hour commuters trampled on each other, abandoning their bags and shoes, after two of the bombs went off in one train in the Atocha station in the heart of Madrid. Train cars were turned into twisted wrecks and platforms were strewn with corpses. Cell phones rang unanswered on the bodies of the dead as frantic relatives tried to call them.

''March 11, 2004, now holds its place in the history of infamy,'' Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar said.

The bombing came three days ahead of Spain's general election on Sunday. A major campaign issue was how to deal with ETA, the Basque militant group that is seeking greater autonomy.

Campaigning for the election was called off and three days of mourning were declared.

The bombings occurred exactly 2 1/2 years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States, and was Europe's worst since the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, that killed 270 people.

The attacks also reawakened terrorism fears among investors. Stocks fell in London and in New York, where the Dow Jones industrial average dropped nearly 170 points. On Friday, Tokyo stocks opened sharply lower.

The 10 backpack bombs exploded in a 15-minute span, starting about 7:39 a.m., on trains along nine miles of commuter line from Santa Eugenia to the Atocha terminal, a bustling hub for subway, commuter and long-distance trains just south of the famed Prado Museum. Police also found and detonated three other bombs.

The Interior Ministry said 192 people were killed and 1,421 injured.

''An act of barbaric terrorism has engulfed Spain with profound pain, repulsion and anger,'' King Juan Carlos said on national television.

Worst hit was a double-decker train at El Pozo station, where two bombs killed 70 people, fire department inspector Juan Redondo said. One corpse was blown onto the roof.

At the Santa Eugenia station, ''there was one carriage totally blown apart. People were scattered all over the platforms. I saw legs and arms. I won't forget this ever. I've seen horror,'' said Enrique Sanchez, an ambulance worker.

Forty coroners worked to identify remains, the national news agency Efe said, and a steady stream of taxis carried relatives to a sprawling convention center that was turned into a makeshift morgue.

Three days of national mourning were declared and thousands of people took part in spontaneous anti-terror rallies across the country Thursday. The government called for nationwide anti-ETA demonstrations on Friday evening, and millions were expected.

Who carried out the highly coordinated attack was a mystery. The government put the Basque separatist group ETA at the top of its list of suspects, although a shadowy group claimed responsibility in the name of al-Qaida.

The Arabic newspaper Al-Quds al-Arabi said it had received a claim of responsibility issued in the name of al-Qaida. The e-mail claim, signed by the shadowy Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri, was received at the newspaper's London offices and said the brigade's ''death squad'' had penetrated ''one of the pillars of the crusade alliance, Spain.''

''This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam,'' the claim said.

Spain had backed the U.S.-led war on Iraq despite domestic opposition, and many al-Qaida-linked terrorists have been captured in Spain or were believed to have operated from there.

Spain's government is studying the reported al-Qaida claim but still believes ETA is more likely responsible, a senior official in Aznar's office said.

Spain's security forces were not ruling out ''any line of investigation,'' Interior Minister Angel Acebes said.

The United States believes Al-Masri sometimes falsely claims to be acting on behalf of al-Qaida. The group took credit for blackouts in the United States and London last year.

The purported al-Qaida statement also claimed the terror group would soon hit the United States with a major attack. ''The expected strike against America, is now at its final stage - 90 percent ready,'' it said.

Some officials think Spain, along with Germany, was an important staging ground for the Sept. 11 attacks. Since then, Spain has arrested more than 40 al-Qaida suspects.

If the attack was carried out by ETA, it could signal a radical and lethal change of strategy for the group that has largely targeted police and politicians in its decades-long fight for a separate Basque homeland.

But after police found a stolen van with seven detonators and the Arabic-language tape parked in a suburb near where the stricken trains originated, Acebes said: ''I have just given instructions to the security forces not to rule out any line of investigation.''

A top Basque politician, Arnold Otegi, denied ETA was behind the blasts and blamed ''Arab resistance,'' noting Spain's support for the Iraq war.

The government said ETA had tried a similar attack on Christmas Eve, placing bombs on two trains bound for a Madrid station that was not hit Thursday.

''ETA had been looking for a massacre,'' said Acebes, the interior minister. ''Unfortunately, today it achieved its goal.''

The Interior Ministry said tests showed the explosives used in the attacks were a kind of dynamite normally used by ETA.

The bombers used titadine, a kind of compressed dynamite also found in a bomb-laden van intercepted last month as it headed for Madrid, a source at Aznar's office said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Officials blamed ETA then, too.

In a break with past ETA tactics, there were multiple attacks and no advance warning. ETA has usually gone after one target at a time and the largest casualty toll was 21 killed in 1987.

ETA has claimed responsibility for more than 800 deaths since 1968.

Sympathy poured in from capitals worldwide, led by Spain's partners in the 15-nation European Union, and neighboring France raised its terror alert level. In Athens, security also was tightened at train stations and the Spanish Embassy, although overall plans for the Aug. 13-29 Olympics will not change, officials said.

The United States, Britain and Russia said the attacks demonstrated the need for toughened resolve against terrorists.

President Bush called Aznar and Juan Carlos, saying he expressed ''our country's deepest sympathies toward those who lost their life.

''I told them we weep with the families. We stand strong with the people of Spain,'' he said.

The U.S. Senate unanimously passed a resolution expressing outrage and urging Bush to ''provide all possible assistance to Spain'' in pursuing the terrorists.

Aznar was a staunch supporter of U.S.-led war that ousted Saddam Hussein and Spain sent 1,300 troops to Iraq.

Aznar, who himself survived an ETA car bombing in 1995, will step down when a new government is formed after the elections.

Revulsion over the attack could benefit Aznar's ruling conservative Popular Party because of its hard-line stance against ETA.

Both the Popular Party and the opposition Socialists ruled out talks with ETA during the campaign.

''No negotiation is possible or desirable with these assassins who so many times have sown death all around Spain,'' Aznar said.

The Socialists came in for withering criticism during the campaign because a politician linked to the Socialist-run government in the Catalonia region, which also has separatist sentiment, admitted meeting with ETA members in France in January. The Socialists were lambasted as allegedly undermining Spain's fight against ETA.

The group - Euskadi ta Askatasuna, or Basque Homeland and Freedom - is believed by police to number perhaps only several dozen hard-core militants who are supported by a wider group of Basque nationalists.

The government had recently expressed cautious optimism that ETA was near defeat after mass arrests, seizures of weapons and explosives, increased cooperation from France and the banning of ETA's purported political front. The number of people killed in ETA attacks dropped to three last year.

[IPkurd]

if it was al queda, then they can hit britain aswell probably, well thats what the right wing newspapers well tell us tomorow so the people can support future wars against "terror" and anti islamic tendancies well rise

:angry: fuck these pussy white ppl (right wingers)

[SittingBull47]

Originally posted by demonio [email protected] 11 2004, 10:44 PM
yes it has been confirmed, IT WAS AL-QAEDA!!! assholes. i hate al-qaeda, and they said their huge strike on america is 90% done.
192 dead, 1400 wounded. thats messed up.
theres the link if u wanna read all about it. i want them to invade so i can shoot some of them.
True, but thank god they didn't kill anymore people. No matter how radical somebody is on this board (generally speaking) you must admit that killing innocent people should not happen.

[Intifada]

wasnt the war on iraq supposed to stop terrorist acts? :huh:

[RedCeltic]

All the news I've seen so far tells me that they still aren't clear who it was, so I don't think anyone should jump to conclusions yet...


Regardless of who did it, my heart goes out to all those victoms and relitives of victoms of the attacks.

I hope this isn't used as a reason for more world agression, eather by Spain or on behalf of Spain!

[Kez]

Terrorist Atrocity in Madrid (http://www.marxist.com/Europe/terrorist_atrocity_in_madrid.html) was from yesterday as an news analysis
Todays analysis (http://www.marxist.com/Europe/madrid_atrocities.html)

These have interesting details, such as what role workers should play now, and how people have demonstrated breaking class demonstrations from basque region to madrid workers have protested in solidarity, when Aznar said it was an attack on "Spanish People".

On another note it will be interesting to see what happens in sunndays elections.

[FistFullOfSteel]

Its Al-Qaida,ETA they have a another work method.

Al-Qaida attacked the trains because Spain stood behind USA in the Iraq war.

In school today,we didnt held a quiet minute for the victims, i thought what the hell, why do we most care of the Usa?


peace!

[Winston Smith]

It doesn't fit ETA's profile. They usually call before the bomb goes off and the target government buildings. But still they have good reason to be suspected.

[Sabocat]

Aznar probably had it done to remain in power. Bush will do the same thing here in the U.$. Nothing would surprise me. Berlusconi will probably do it in Italy, Blair will probably do it in England. 200 lives mean nothing to these animals. I read that they suspect Al Qaida because the bombs used copper wire. Imagine that. Copper wire. The most common wire there is. It's all just a little too convenient. Before an election and all.

It strikes me as odd that Al Qaida would do this knowing the vast numbers of people in Spain that protested the war. It seems counter-productive to turn people that supported no war, and troop withdrawal into staunch supporters and backing the right wing currently in power.

[kingbee]

agreed.

wasnt there a bomb in a train station in italy in the 80's, which was deployed by the goverment?

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 04:27 PM
Aznar probably had it done to remain in power. Bush will do the same thing here in the U.$. Nothing would surprise me. Berlusconi will probably do it in Italy, Blair will probably do it in England.
Come on man, your one of the more sensible people around.. That's just potty, that's fiction..

Of course it's speculation but the explosive and detonator used were Spanish made and have been used by ETA before, that and the fact that they have in fact targeted civilians before, including a remarkably similar effort just weeks ago - backpacks and mobiles were seized along with large quantaties of incendry materiel Madrid bound..

There is though the van, the co-ordination and the sheer audacious and coldbloodedness of an Al Qai-da effort, that and the spooky fact that this attack comes exactly 911 days after, well 9-11.. Bin Laden does have a liking for that kind of symbolism..

The only argument against a joint effort seems to ba that Al Qai-da have never previously alligned themselves with a non-Muslim organization..

To put it all into perspective,the news today that the youngest victim - a six month year old baby- died this morning due to terrible chest injuries..

[Sabocat]

Come on man, your one of the more sensible people around.. That's just potty, that's fiction..

Is it? You may be right. We'll probably never know for sure. In the U.$., we have the likes of the Northwoods Operation that (at least for me) will always keep me skeptical of these reactionaries.


This is what I'm talking about.... http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-i.htm

You can deny all you want, but this is proof that at least one of the Western Governments (U.$.) have considered killing civilian population for implementation of a military plan.

[Morpheus]

Everytime something blows up a copycat group calling itself "Al-Qaeda" claims credit. Sometimes multiple different groups, all claiming to be Al-Qaeda, claim credit for the same attack. The Spanish government should be on the top of our suspects list. This occured right before an election and benefits the government more than any other group. 90% of Spaniards were against the Iraq war but the government supported it and tried to hype up fear about the "terrorist menace." There's plenty of historical precedent for these kinds of things, like the "strategy of tension" in Italy. The real conspiracy theorists are the people who believe a giant conspiracy of evil muslims directed by some old people in caves did it.

[redstarshining]

Originally posted by Arthur Rock+Mar 13 2004, 09:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arthur Rock @ Mar 13 2004, 09:17 PM)
[email protected] 13 2004, 04:27 PM
Aznar probably had it done to remain in power. Bush will do the same thing here in the U.&#036;. Nothing would surprise me. Berlusconi will probably do it in Italy, Blair will probably do it in England.
Come on man, your one of the more sensible people around.. That&#39;s just potty, that&#39;s fiction..

Of course it&#39;s speculation but the explosive and detonator used were Spanish made and have been used by ETA before, that and the fact that they have in fact targeted civilians before, including a remarkably similar effort just weeks ago - backpacks and mobiles were seized along with large quantaties of incendry materiel Madrid bound..

There is though the van, the co-ordination and the sheer audacious and coldbloodedness of an Al Qai-da effort, that and the spooky fact that this attack comes exactly 911 days after, well 9-11.. Bin Laden does have a liking for that kind of symbolism..

The only argument against a joint effort seems to ba that Al Qai-da have never previously alligned themselves with a non-Muslim organization..

To put it all into perspective,the news today that the youngest victim - a six month year old baby- died this morning due to terrible chest injuries.. [/b]
There are more and more hints that point towards Al-Qaida (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=22991&st=20).

Although ETA have targeted civilians ( that is people not directly involved in government activities )in the past, the organization has always carefully been "selecting" it&#39;s targets, and never killed people at random.
That the same type of detonators and a similar type of TNT was used doesn&#39;t mean much, here in Germany most militant organizations used to buy their material within the country, from one source. I imagine it could be the same in Spain.

There is no evidence whatsoever that ETA has changed it&#39;s tactics so far... except that they no longer announce every attack in advance anymore.

[redstarshining]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 09:56 PM
Everytime something blows up a copycat group calling itself "Al-Qaeda" claims credit. Sometimes multiple different groups, all claiming to be Al-Qaeda, claim credit for the same attack. The Spanish government should be on the top of our suspects list. This occured right before an election and benefits the government more than any other group. 90% of Spaniards were against the Iraq war but the government supported it and tried to hype up fear about the "terrorist menace." There&#39;s plenty of historical precedent for these kinds of things, like the "strategy of tension" in Italy. The real conspiracy theorists are the people who believe a giant conspiracy of evil muslims directed by some old people in caves did it.
I am also very sceptical about this, it is definately not in the interest of ETA to cause a bloodbath on this level just a few days before the election leading to the sure victory of the PP. Except if they are suicidal.
Nor is it in the interest of Al-Qaida, although it looks like the work of an affiliated group.

Whether the government was involved or not, we will probably never know for sure but the media will keep on blaiming both groups at least until after the election.

[Morpheus]

Whether the government was involved or not, we will probably never know for sure

We may find out in 30-40 years when the appropriate documents have been declassified or leaked.

[Christopher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 01:05 AM
I&#39;ve heard that this group claiming responsibility on behalf of Al-Qaeda is actually very untrustworthy. They claimed responsibility for that black out in Ontario and the north eastern US which they had nothing to do with.
Yes, and they stated that the motive was to strike at the crusaders of Spain and America as an extention of an old conflict. That part I believe.

Religious war. Disgusting&#33;

[Wenty]

Aznar isn&#39;t actually running in todays elections, he is staying true to a pledge he made years ago stating he wouldn&#39;t run for a third four year term.

[Saint-Just]

I think the Spanish might have wanted to blame ETA because otherwise their decision to join the war on terrorism in Iraq looks like a bad one because of the casualties it has just inflicted upon the Spanish people at home.

The moment it went off most politicians suspected it can&#39;t have been ETA since ETA would not kill so many people, they never have done and it would be counterproductive for their cause, it would draw such attention to warrant a massive counter offensive from the Spanish government as in the 80s when they assassinated the entire ETA leadership, hundreds of people until they killed members in France and the international community saw what they were doing.