Marshal Tito

[sh0cker]

I can see that this forum is concern a lot about Lenin, Stalin, Kastro and others..
But I have not found anything any discussion about this leader of Yugoslavia during after II WW period..

I would like to hear what you people think and how far you know about him..



sh0cker

[j.guevara]

look into the old posts. I know there was one on tito and "titoism."

[Comrade Zeke]

I comrade Zeke is the best expert on Tito and TItoism...for it think it was one of the better Communist countires....not like I worship the guy like all these other Stalinists worship Stalin. I started the topic of Tito and Titoism....and it was a big hit intill I got restricted lol now I am back as a member. Long live a United Yugoslavia! Ask me anything you want to know I will tell anyone who wishes to know.

[Comrade Zeke]

OK I will give you a big history of Tito so get ready and sorry in advance about the spelling.....

Josip Broz is Tito's real name....he became the Communist pary leader of Yugoslavia through 1935-1940 he after most of the Yugoslav Communist members went to Russia and died in the purges or were taken to prison by the Yugoslavian Kingdom. In 1941 when the Germans attacked he was in Zagreb....after that he went to Belgrade. In of the social states in Yugoslavia Monterngro *think that is how you spell it* Milan Djilas one of his main captains in the war tried an un succesful Communist revolution. After Tito left Belgrade he met up with Alexander Rankovic, and Djilas somewhere on the Serbian-Montergorian border. Alexander Rankovic would become leader of the UGBA the Yugoslav secret Police when Communist Yugoslavia was set up. The Partisans as they latter became know in the war started off Very very very un popular Communists and had enemies eveywhere. Up intill 1943 the Partisans were around such small Bosnain towns as Foca Bihac and Drvar. The main enenmies of the Partisans were the Royalist Chetniks who wanted to see KIng Peter of the old Yugoslav kingdom to be back on the throne once the war was over. There were the Germans,Italians,the USTSHA. The Ustasha were a terrorist organisation from the N.H.D (Independet state of Croatia) the Nazis had set up the N.H.D and it was a puppet state that slaughter thousands of Jews,Gypies,Serbs and many others who wern't Croat. Tito started out with only around 2,000 Partisans, poorly armed trained and low on Amuntion. He had no support what so ever, from Stalin,the British or the Americans...they all backed the Chetniks. In the winter of 1941 Tito's small Partisan army almost froze to death in Bosnia. In 1942 the Partisans launched an offensive against the Chetnik bands that was very unsucesful. From Novemeber 1942 to January 1943 the the Germans,Italians,and the Chetniks launched two massive offensives against the Partisan army that had gained support and now had at least 20,000 combat troops. The reason for such high numbers was because Tito and the Partisans had save the Jews from being gased and many Serbs were fed up at the Chetniks. Tito also let all the religions in the small towns he captured to worship freely. When the Germans launched the main asualt on the Partisan montain stronghold the Partisans were getting driven back to the river Nervata to be destoryed by the Italians. The Italians made a secret Alliance with the Chetniks in hopes to destory the Communist fighters. Even know the Chetniks were on the allies side they still wanted to destoryed the Partisans more then ever. Tito made a secret truce to the Germans he would give them back some of there top officers if they stopped attacking him from the rear. They agreed and Tito broke out of what became know as the fourth Offensive. There were several major offensivs against the Partisans but I won't go into it. In the spring of 1943 the Allies decicded to switch their support to the PArtisans deserting the Chetniks. Around 1944 the masive Communist uprising in Yugoslavia gained more and more fallowers that it could take over several major cities. In auttum 1944 the Russians came from the east and helped liberate Belgrade...but not to much. The Russians rape over 500 Serbian woman and Tito was disgusted..it would latter lead to the break with Stalin. The Partisans now attack ever German, Chetnik,or Uatsah memeber across Yugoslavia. The Italians had surrendered and left there weapons behind. THe Partisans drove out the Germans and destoryed the Utasha state of Croatia. In 1945 the Partisans came right up to Trireste in Northern Italy it bordered the Yugoslav border. The could have been a third world war right there but Tito chose to back down and set up Communist Yugoslavia. In 1947 Tito totally broke with the Soveit Union cutting all ties and refusing to trade with the corrupt and evil empire. At first Tito was a strong beiliver that the Soveit system worked. But when colleztiviced farming didn't work he tryed new systems. He let some small buiness be set up and he introduced the system of National pride in a Communist country, with some small buinesses and a diffrent style from Soveit Polotics:"TITOISM was the form of it. He was procalimed president for life in 1963. He was loved Leader and many Yugoslavs still look back at his rule as the golden age of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia out of all those crapy Communist countries turned out to be the best one,having no shaby goods, workers Unions and several small buniesses to help the econemy run..he set up relations with the west and Yugoslavia and Romania helped build the Yu-Rom fighter. Tito was also the leader who said up the non-aligined movment. Its first meeting was in Belgrade and many many third world countries join the alliance to stay nuetral in the great cold war. Tito went to countless countries and was in charge of setting up a strong third world. In Yugoslavia everyone was happy and people liked where they lived. In 1980 sadely Marshal Tito died at the age of 91. He had kept Yugoslavia together with "Brotherhood and Unity" The world saw him as a Dicatator but not as bad as the others he was a dictator for a purpouse to keep Yugoslavia from falling apart. His dream of a Yugoslavia that was toatly united fell apart 12 years latter and everyone started to kill everyone else!!!! And well you know what happend after that...Thank you I know more on Tito if you want. :D

[Uhuru na Umoja]

Tito was briefly discussed on this thread (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=22825), where I posted links to a couple of long debates that have previously occurred on the topic. If I have the time I shall write up some of my ideas on this thread tomorrow.

[sh0cker]

Well Comrade Zeke I am very glad that you know that so much and that we can discuss because some things I disagree..

First of all you explained Tito's gaining to power very well and he was really good and clever communist.
His international relationships were enormosly great for country such as Yugoslavia was, it became in 70's fifth country in the WORLD!
He had great relationships with middle east countries, and being one of non involved countries to any side, he get many loans which he had not to pay back. And highly repspected Yugoslavia was strong and powerful as well as it's army was. Golden ages were during his period, but it wasn't very nice during later 40's as you said.

After Stalin wanted to divade all communist counties (almost all Eastern Europe) into one big area which would not have almost any connections with West of course under himself, he saw that it's not going to work that so easy.. So he turned back to Stalin and rejected to be part of that divided Eastern Europe. By that time relationships with Yugoslavs and Russians was very very good, and they were concering them selfs as "brothers". He knew this. So to make sure that there won't be any opposition to his decision, he ordered, that anyone who says opposite to him or in favour of Russia have to be exiled. And place where they were exiled was called and it is nowdays Goli Otok. It is an island, where tree's are not growing, so there are just stone's, no earth, bloody hardly life there. I won't go in what they were doing. But it wasn't just if you support Russia that you would be exiled, you had to say just "Russia is fine" you would be exiled, as it is described in some book I was reading few monthes ago. And he showed some parts of behaving here as Stalin was, also as you mentioned all those Chetniks who survived after II ww were killed, or they fled to mostly Australia, Argentina, USA, Russia and some other European country.
So he wasn't that so polite as you presented, but it is true that he made incredible things with Yugoslavia and no one can oppose that..

Now I want to explain you and others some things about Chetniks, because what you said is a non-sence..
I actually had chance to meet one of Chetniks which had fled after II ww so I hear some really truth things, which I also read later one, and he wasn't true Chetnik but he was supporter I'll explain why..

Chetniks were kings elite army, after he fled in exile they started fighting AGAINST Germans, Italians and Partisans as well.
They contained elite forces mostly from Montenegro and Serbia (Much less number of others) and they were not even close to Ustashe from Croatia which supported Naciz and who were in charge of some concentration camps. Chetniks are presented as very ruthless and almost with animal insticts people, which wasn't that so true, but war is war. I must mention that neither that Partisans were polite! After kings fled they wanted to bring him back after peace and keep monarchy, so they started fighting. They had supporters all around Serbia and Montenegro. They were quite strong. But in order to have more people with them they (as well as Partisans) were blackmailing people which they cought in area they occupaid. So many people who were fighting with them weren't really supporters of their ideas. Also people who opposed Partisans in order to survive had to be with Chetniks, even thay had not support them! It is true that in some parts of Yugoslavia Chetniks were cooperating with Germans to destroy Partisans.
After all those battles when Tito gain the power almost every singe Chetnik was or killed or he fled to some other country.
To prove that Chetniks were NOT from Croatia at all (except on beggining after king fled, if some were in that forces but after NO) because Croatia as you said had it's own groups Ustasha which was against Chetniks as well as against Partisans.
And Chetniks consists very very educated and clever people who opposed Partisans so they join Chetniks to survive. Chetniks also consists of people who were blackmailed by or killing their family or things like that to go in Chetniks.
Now days most of people who thinks that if someone is Chetnik he was for king, he was this or that.. It isn't true, many people weren't supporters of Chetniks but they had to be that. So it is not right to talk about them like that.

Just to correct you few things..
Montenegro --> One of republics of Yugoslavia, you wrote little diffirent.
UDBA --> Tito's secret police.
Milovan Djilas --> Man who gained first communisam revolution which you mention and very close friend of Stalin (was with him in Yalta) you wrote Milan, just to be more clearer. He was from Montenegro. ;)


This would be what I wanted to say, very cofused because I don't have a lot of time now and sorry for my poor spellings..

[sh0cker]

Zeke I answered you on your topic of Titoism form Febreuary, we could started posting again maybe some good discussions came, or we can continue here..

I answered something similar there as well as here..


sh0cker

[insurgency03]

he's 1 of my overall favorite communist leaders. He helped unite the people of a country filled with strife and war.

[Solace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 11:45 AM
He helped unite the people of a country filled with strife and war.
It's amazing how people can keep throwing the same classic shit over and over again. Left of right, the lamest patterns of "thinking" are the most popular.

Tito did such a great job in uniting the folks that as soon as he died, the country sunk into an ethnic war.

The only thing Tito did well is building the path for capitalism.

[ComradeRed]

In a nutshell, what is titoism?

[Comrade Zeke]

Titoism:A Socalist system invendted by Josip Broz the real name of Tito,is a system that is opposed toSoveit Marxist-Lenneism, the people elect the people who they want to run the facotroies and super markets.The Communist party however is still completly in control. Titoism alows some private buinesses from forgien countries.....thats why the Yugoslav econmy was running fairly well with the help of some aid in the early 1950s. Titoism also involves some Labour Unions to help boost the econmy. Tourist industry was well as communication services.

In short Titoism:is totlly opposite of Soveit,Chinese and Cuba Communism, still Communist system accepts a little, tiny bit of Capitalism to boost the econmy from starving to death in a crapy factory you also get better made goods and services. Utopia on earth in my opnion only draw back......Tito and not a Democracy
Zeke