Things are so messed up - I'm tired of this shit

[GLF]

I'm so upset and sick of everything. Everything is so fucked. After the whole shit in Charlottesville I was angry and itching for a fight but now that I've settled a bit I'm just depressed and without any hope. People are going to continue to fight and die and we can't do anything to stop it. Not to mention the president is a moron and is going to start some kind of a war. Everything is so fucked up right now and this country is so divided and pissed off. I don't even feel like fighting anymore I just want to find a rock and crawl under it and die. I can't go on like this it's destroying me and sucking all pleasure out of life. I feel like I'm in some kind of a nightmare that I can't wake up from. I've never been so politically charged and I'm just completely drained.

Nobody can see the truth - everyone embraces lies and no one cares about right or wrong only that their side wins. We are headed for civil war and there's going to be lunatics with guns running around. You better arm yourselves so as to defend those who cannot defend themselves, in the instance that things take a major turn for the worse.

I beg...we desperately need a mass movement that brings working class people together. We need it so bad. We have to be able to appeal to the great mass of people. There is so much misdirected and misguided discontent boiling over in this country and the west in general. Misplaced hatred. Workers blaming one another and it makes me want to weep so bad. We need a revolution in this country with workers of all colors and creeds - people are so hungry for this. So hungry for unity and justice and to belong. People want to belong so bad and they want their values espoused by everyone else...that's why we need a mass-movement that can unite common people on the things that bind us together...to passionately appeal to things that all workers hold common.

Sorry I just had to vent. Seriously though, we have to unite the common people and begin a fresh movement somehow, someway. This shit has to end - we can't keep doing this. We're banging our heads against the wall and the inequality worsens.

[BIXX]

Who are the "common people"?

[GLF]

Who are the "common people"?

Commoners. People of every race, color, nationality, etc who are a slave to capitalism...and some have it worse than others. I'm so tired of the idiocy of workers who take out their frustration on those who have it even worse than themselves. I'm so tired of people who exploit working class agitation for their own political ends. We have to do something about it. Create a third party to unite the workers in ways that transcend the divisions imposed upon them...to educate and agitate. We have to go from the shadows into the political arena. We can't continue to allow liberals and the fake left to play our role, and play it in a way that only serves to create more division and reactionism.

[ckaihatsu]

What I'm hearing from all of this is that workers / people need to *make a break* with identity politics (the furthest-left extent of nationalist-reformist politics), so as to move onto more-generalized and politically-appropriate *class* politics.

We should keep in mind -- and remind people -- that they're basically *dispossessed* under the system of capitalism, and that they have more strength *with others* of their same class, rather than pinning their hopes on securing their own *thinner* slice of the pie as it exists today.

In line with the liberals-are-sell-outs sentiment at the other thread, we should point out that the liberal ideology doesn't even have any political 'turf' / legitimacy to stand on, if it's willing to side with the Trump establishment on the fascist attack in Charlottesville. (And if it's *not* willing to side with fascists, then what would liberalism *propose* to do about the increasing threat from the far-right -- ?)

Polarization has the benefit of *accelerationism*, in that there's a rapidly shrinking 'middle ground' (the bourgeois nation-state), so those who think they can just 'ride it out' are going to be at a loss (politically inept, passive, and irrelevant) in the socio-political context of stark political polarization.


Ideologies & Operations -- Left Centrifugalism



http://s6.postimg.org/3si9so4xd/110211_Ideologies_Operations_Left_Centrifug.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/zc8b2rb3h/full/)

[Ele'ill]

I'm so upset and sick of everything. Everything is so fucked. After the whole shit in Charlottesville I was angry and itching for a fight but now that I've settled a bit I'm just depressed and without any hope. People are going to continue to fight and die and we can't do anything to stop it. Not to mention the president is a moron and is going to start some kind of a war. Everything is so fucked up right now and this country is so divided and pissed off. I don't even feel like fighting anymore I just want to find a rock and crawl under it and die. I can't go on like this it's destroying me and sucking all pleasure out of life. I feel like I'm in some kind of a nightmare that I can't wake up from. I've never been so politically charged and I'm just completely drained.

Nobody can see the truth - everyone embraces lies and no one cares about right or wrong only that their side wins. We are headed for civil war and there's going to be lunatics with guns running around. You better arm yourselves so as to defend those who cannot defend themselves, in the instance that things take a major turn for the worse.

I beg...we desperately need a mass movement that brings working class people together. We need it so bad. We have to be able to appeal to the great mass of people. There is so much misdirected and misguided discontent boiling over in this country and the west in general. Misplaced hatred. Workers blaming one another and it makes me want to weep so bad. We need a revolution in this country with workers of all colors and creeds - people are so hungry for this. So hungry for unity and justice and to belong. People want to belong so bad and they want their values espoused by everyone else...that's why we need a mass-movement that can unite common people on the things that bind us together...to passionately appeal to things that all workers hold common.

Sorry I just had to vent. Seriously though, we have to unite the common people and begin a fresh movement somehow, someway. This shit has to end - we can't keep doing this. We're banging our heads against the wall and the inequality worsens.

There's a lot happening right now, I think it's normal to be feeling like that. Flier, flier drops, banners, are all things you could quickly do on your own, or with friends. Focusing on something can give you a bit of a break even if you're still dwelling within it.

[AngryDwarf]

What do you limp as a wimp? You want to start a movement - get busy, do it yourself, but don't cry in the comments on the forum like a girl. Tough answer, but you deserve it

[GLF]

What do you limp as a wimp? You want to start a movement - get busy, do it yourself, but don't cry in the comments on the forum like a girl. Tough answer, but you deserve it

I'm not crying - I'm just sick of the bullshit and conflict because none of it's necessary and all of it, as in every goddamn bit of it, is socially engineered by the capitalists. And no one gives a shit. I'm tired of giving a shit.

I can't do a thing on my own. I don't want to lead a movement - I want the PEOPLE to lead one themselves or it completely defeats the fucking purpose.

[Ele'ill]

I think you most certainly fit into that larger picture of revolt.

[AngryDwarf]

I want the PEOPLE to lead one themselves

lol you are live in cloud-cuckoo land, if you so say

[GLF]

lol you are live in cloud-cuckoo land, if you so say


You said for me to start a movement. I try to do my part. I haven't had much success, unfortunately. What happened in Virginia was like a punch to the gut.

I'm getting over it - just felt like venting the other day.

[GLF]

What I'm hearing from all of this is that workers / people need to *make a break* with identity politics (the furthest-left extent of nationalist-reformist politics), so as to move onto more-generalized and politically-appropriate *class* politics.

We should keep in mind -- and remind people -- that they're basically *dispossessed* under the system of capitalism, and that they have more strength *with others* of their same class, rather than pinning their hopes on securing their own *thinner* slice of the pie as it exists today.

In line with the liberals-are-sell-outs sentiment at the other thread, we should point out that the liberal ideology doesn't even have any political 'turf' / legitimacy to stand on, if it's willing to side with the Trump establishment on the fascist attack in Charlottesville. (And if it's *not* willing to side with fascists, then what would liberalism *propose* to do about the increasing threat from the far-right -- ?)

Polarization has the benefit of *accelerationism*, in that there's a rapidly shrinking 'middle ground' (the bourgeois nation-state), so those who think they can just 'ride it out' are going to be at a loss (politically inept, passive, and irrelevant) in the socio-political context of stark political polarization.


Ideologies & Operations -- Left Centrifugalism



https://www.revleft.space/vb/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revleft.space%2Fvb %2Fcache.php%3Fimg%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.revle ft.space%252Fvb%252Fcache.php%253Fimg%253Dhttps%25 253A%25252F%25252Fwww.revleft.space%25252Fvb%25252 Fcache.php%25253Fimg%25253Dhttps%2525253A%2525252F %2525252Fwww.revleft.space%2525252Fvb%2525252Fcach e.php%2525253Fimg%2525253Dhttps%252525253A%2525252 52F%252525252Fwww.revleft.space%252525252Fvb%25252 5252Fcache.php%252525253Fimg%252525253Dhttps%25252 525253A%25252525252F%25252525252Fwww.revleft.space %25252525252Fvb%25252525252Fcache.php%25252525253F img%25252525253Dhttps%2525252525253A%2525252525252 F%2525252525252Fwww.revleft.space%2525252525252Fvb %2525252525252Fcache.php%2525252525253Fimg%2525252 525253Dhttps%252525252525253A%252525252525252F%252 525252525252Fwww.revleft.space%252525252525252Fvb% 252525252525252Fcache.php%252525252525253Fimg%2525 25252525253Dhttp%25252525252525253A%25252525252525 252F%25252525252525252Fs6.postimg.org%252525252525 25252F3si9so4xd%25252525252525252F110211_Ideologie s_Operations_Left_Centrifug.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/zc8b2rb3h/full/)

I agree with this.

I think the biggest problem with identity politics is that much of it comes from a passive acceptance of capitalism as the status-quo. People see the unearned privilege of the capitalist class and the way that it intersects with other forms of inequality, and for many the solution is to make the capitalist class more diverse. For these people, a diverse proletariat and a diverse bourgeoisie is an ideal society. It never dawns on them that the solution isn't to elevate everyone else to the level of white men, it's to yank white men and all other capitalists down to the level of everyone else; instead of changing the complexion of the kings, we should overthrow the monarchy altogether. The question is whether or not ID politics in the current application work toward such a goal. Increasingly, for many leftists, the answer is starting to become "no".

[AngryDwarf]

You said for me to start a movement. I try to do my part. I haven't had much success, unfortunately. What happened in Virginia was like a punch to the gut.

So ill try. Read Lenin's book, look both struggled capitalism they. They sure do, don't snivel. And about the events in Virginia - you got off easy. Of course, pity the girl, but think, what if the nazi rammed a crowd on a truck?

[GLF]

So ill try. Read Lenin's book, look both struggled capitalism they. They sure do, don't snivel. And about the events in Virginia - you got off easy. Of course, pity the girl, but think, what if the nazi rammed a crowd on a truck?

Good point. It could be so much worse.

[willowtooth]

So ill try. Read Lenin's book, look both struggled capitalism they. They sure do, don't snivel. And about the events in Virginia - you got off easy. Of course, pity the girl, but think, what if the nazi rammed a crowd on a truck?
what about what's going on in the rest of the world?


http://allafrica.com/stories/201708110129.html atleast 30 killed in the CAR
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2017/cholera-yemen-mark/en/ Cholera outbreak in Yemen kills 500,000
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/suicide-bombers-kill-27-wound-83-northeast-nigeria-n793071 27 dead by suicide attack in Nigeria
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/africa/burkina-faso-attack/index.html 18 killed in motorcycle attack in Burkina Faso
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-drugs-idUSKCN1AX0BO?il=0 30 dead in the Philippines in 1 day

[ckaihatsu]

I agree with this.

I think the biggest problem with identity politics is that much of it comes from a passive acceptance of capitalism as the status-quo. People see the unearned privilege of the capitalist class and the way that it intersects with other forms of inequality, and for many the solution is to make the capitalist class more diverse. For these people, a diverse proletariat and a diverse bourgeoisie is an ideal society. It never dawns on them that the solution isn't to elevate everyone else to the level of white men, it's to yank white men and all other capitalists down to the level of everyone else; instead of changing the complexion of the kings, we should overthrow the monarchy altogether. The question is whether or not ID politics in the current application work toward such a goal. Increasingly, for many leftists, the answer is starting to become "no".


Yes, and in the direction of having something concrete to bring to people, we may want to focus on this 'monarchy' aspect, especially since the U.S. and Saudi Arabia (a monarchy) are joined at the hip, too.

I think 'neofeudalism' is a good term here, to emphasize that the world may be more integrated, but it's on the basis of ruling-class diktats, which is politically about the same as being a serf or slave on a landed estate, anywhere and everywhere in the world. Additionally there's still *rentier* capital, which, for most, is the existential obligation to make payments for the temporary use of space in which to live. Ditto for food, jobs (requiring the costs of education), and everything else that by now should have been generalized and collectivized, at very least on a nation-state basis, as for water, transportation, etc.

So I'm suggesting that we may want to 'get our shit together' into a more-marketable format, with 'talking points' to use on why proletarian revolution is objectively needed in the world, especially right now.





what about what's going on in the rest of the world?


http://allafrica.com/stories/201708110129.html atleast 30 killed in the CAR
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2017/cholera-yemen-mark/en/ Cholera outbreak in Yemen kills 500,000
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/suicide-bombers-kill-27-wound-83-northeast-nigeria-n793071 27 dead by suicide attack in Nigeria
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/africa/burkina-faso-attack/index.html 18 killed in motorcycle attack in Burkina Faso
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-drugs-idUSKCN1AX0BO?il=0 30 dead in the Philippines in 1 day


-Thanks- on this.

[TomLeftist]

GLF: And the worst people are not the nazis, Donald Trump, the fascists, the racists, the KKK. The worst people that I see in America, that are one of the main impediments for socialism, for communism. Are the great majority of regular people, who because they don't have fighting habits, warrior habits, do not want to fight, stay away from politics. In order to evade any danger, because politics is really a war. It requires to be warrior, and specially leftist political activism.

The great majority of people are pieces of human trash, who blindly believe in UN, in laws, in US government laws, in the justice system, in the status quo. And even if they are aware that UN, US laws and all laws are really evil and built in order to defend the wealth of the rich. Most humans are weak, lazy, have low will power, hate pain and suffering, evade pain and suffering. And try to live a very comfortable life. And those are the worst people.

Many people in America, in Mexico, in Europe also have this idea that a few leftist intellectuals like Amy Goodman, Chris Hedges, Cornell West, Carl Dix etc. they alone can overthrow capitalism and create a communist paradise for the masses, without the work of the masses. They think that a few communists, a few revolutionaries is all that is needed to turn any nation ino a Disney World paradise. What a stupid world this is.

Regular people are to blame for their apathy, their divorce from politics, their hatred of fighting, of being agressive and fear of pain and suffering. And their individualism.

In USA even poor people hate other people, they think that they can be as popular and as famous as Vin Diesel by driving a sports car

What a stupid society this is, and the poorer people are, the more right-wingers they are



I'm so upset and sick of everything. Everything is so fucked. After the whole shit in Charlottesville I was angry and itching for a fight but now that I've settled a bit I'm just depressed and without any hope. People are going to continue to fight and die and we can't do anything to stop it. Not to mention the president is a moron and is going to start some kind of a war. Everything is so fucked up right now and this country is so divided and pissed off. I don't even feel like fighting anymore I just want to find a rock and crawl under it and die. I can't go on like this it's destroying me and sucking all pleasure out of life. I feel like I'm in some kind of a nightmare that I can't wake up from. I've never been so politically charged and I'm just completely drained.

Nobody can see the truth - everyone embraces lies and no one cares about right or wrong only that their side wins. We are headed for civil war and there's going to be lunatics with guns running around. You better arm yourselves so as to defend those who cannot defend themselves, in the instance that things take a major turn for the worse.

I beg...we desperately need a mass movement that brings working class people together. We need it so bad. We have to be able to appeal to the great mass of people. There is so much misdirected and misguided discontent boiling over in this country and the west in general. Misplaced hatred. Workers blaming one another and it makes me want to weep so bad. We need a revolution in this country with workers of all colors and creeds - people are so hungry for this. So hungry for unity and justice and to belong. People want to belong so bad and they want their values espoused by everyone else...that's why we need a mass-movement that can unite common people on the things that bind us together...to passionately appeal to things that all workers hold common.

Sorry I just had to vent. Seriously though, we have to unite the common people and begin a fresh movement somehow, someway. This shit has to end - we can't keep doing this. We're banging our heads against the wall and the inequality worsens.

[TomLeftist]

GLF: The USA is a nation of human trash, USA is the toilet of the world, the great majority of people in USA are headed toward a physiological collapse, the great majority of US citizens are becoming so physically decadent, so sick, obese, with teeth problems, that in USA, right now to be fit, thin and white teeth is like having a Harvard Masters Degree. And poor people are not becoming humble at all, exept older poor people. And even older poor sick Americans behave like if they are George Clooney, Madonna and Taylor Swift.

I don't understand the stuck-up, arrogance of very poor indigent people, even 300 lbs people are behaving very arrogant. They are also developing all sorts of mental disorders, specially with the rise of the stupid inane mobile smart phones. People, specially the white european race of low income, are dressing and behaving like barbarian vikings. Lots of angry faces with almost no ethical and no social skills. Specially with all those stupid Discovery Channel, History Channel and NATGEO wildlife vikings. Another anti-social trend is an extreme love of pets, of dogs, cats (specially in the middle classes). It's like these right-wing individualist US citizens, hate humans so much, and at the same time are so eager to be like Vin Disel, and Taylor Swift, that they think that if they evade eye-contact and social contact with other of their nieghbors, sooner or later they will rise toward a Vin Disel, Dwayne Johnson status (but of course without the painful weight-lifting and diet exercises). Because these pieces of right-wing anti-politics trash are so low that they don't even have any will power for any muscle gaining activity.

How sad the USA is turning out to be. It is headed toward a shitty nation of older wooden houses, with cheap material that break down very easy. Toilets, appliances etc. that are not good anymore, break down. Houses and apartments and condos at 1000 dollars or more. In a totally bankrupt society. Broke country, a country that is totally economically doomed, because after Bush and his war-hawks blew up the Twin Tower on 9-11-2001. They created an economic hole of 5 trillion dollars. The country is quickly becoming a hell. A lot faster than with Obama, Bush and Clinton. Because at least theey were politicians. But this piece of trash, this rapist, and casino crook who doesn't even know how to talk is destroying USA at a pretty fast pace. May God help us all. Something has to give



Commoners. People of every race, color, nationality, etc who are a slave to capitalism...and some have it worse than others. I'm so tired of the idiocy of workers who take out their frustration on those who have it even worse than themselves. I'm so tired of people who exploit working class agitation for their own political ends. We have to do something about it. Create a third party to unite the workers in ways that transcend the divisions imposed upon them...to educate and agitate. We have to go from the shadows into the political arena. We can't continue to allow liberals and the fake left to play our role, and play it in a way that only serves to create more division and reactionism.

[I Am The Walrus]

We need to make these Fascists scared to open their fucking mouths, everytime they organise we should be there to challenge them, to make them know that they are nothing but scumbag bootlickers exercising a faulty ''''''''''rebellion'''''''''' that in no way challenges the current state of things. All their talk of political correctness, all their posturing, gestures, arcane symbology, pseudo-ironism and platitudes must be countered with rigourous opposition. Everytime someone denigrates antifa we must affirm their violent nature, we must show them that we are not going to fall for the same trick that the liberals do. We are not liberal, we are not scared of opposing them (at least we shouldn't be), we do not accept the horseshoe theory and we should not be intimidated by the centrist moralists. The idea that what I am saying could be considered controversial demonstrates how pathetic political discourse has become, millions of people did not die for mediocrities to defend reactionaries or for reactionaries to be confident enough to reveal themselves.

I have put my money where my mouth is. I have taken blows protesting against these Fascists and I am not going to let any smug liberal convince me to allow them to 'express their free speech', this is a time where action is clear. Fascists and reactionaries must be countered. I will not argue that history is cyclical, but do not pretend that the rise of actual Fascism is not a possibility. We need to nip it in the bud, every rise in Fascism distracts us from organising the end of Capitalism. I know that my post may not be very practical, but we must never lose our passion.

[GLF]

Hey Tom, I just got booted off of Democratic Underground.

I attacked white identity and said that it allows rich white people to use poor whites as a shield. I said that while I agree that white privilege exists, it's current universal application is flawed inasmuch as it pertains to those who don't own capital or the means that produce it, and that rich white people are afraid of the proletariat uniting, so they socially engineer poor whites into fighting their war for them...much the same way poor whites were deluded into fighting the civil war even though they didn't own slaves. I said that the kids across America's universities need to go home and protest their parents if they are truly concerned with social justice.

So they booted me off for "peddling right-wing talking points". You can't make this shit up.


Fascism distracts us from organising the end of Capitalism.

You're completely right. As long as there are fascists on the streets, we can forget bringing an end to capitalism. So I wonder where these fascists come from? In America, they often come from the working class. By design of course.

[I Am The Walrus]

@GLF

I agree with your post, but I think that poor whites are attracted to Fascism because it appeals to the small amount of privilege they maintain. These immigrants 'threaten their job security', 'alter the face of their communities' and 'will make them a minority'. Alongside our opposition to Fascism we must try to make these poor whites realise, at the same time, why privilege is messed up and how they themselves are not so privilged.

[willowtooth]

So they booted me off for "peddling right-wing talking points". You can't make this shit up.


I believe it

[GLF]

@GLF

I agree with your post, but I think that poor whites are attracted to Fascism because it appeals to the small amount of privilege they maintain. These immigrants 'threaten their job security', 'alter the face of their communities' and 'will make them a minority'. Alongside our opposition to Fascism we must try to make these poor whites realise, at the same time, why privilege is messed up and how they themselves are not so privilged.

A good point, and I agree completely. I've often said that one way they are privileged is they don't have to fear fascism to the same extent (their lives aren't automatically forfeit if the blackshirts take over). Another way they are privileged is most of the people in western society look like them. This can have a bigger psychological effect than many realize.

Race loyalty over class loyalty is the biggest problem the west has as it pertains to revolution, and has been for the last century. White identity is the biggest enemy to communists - we have to attack it and undermine it every chance we get. This is why fascists are so fucking problematic. They might as well as show up to their rallies with a big "bow gift wrap" addressed to the bourgeoisie.


I believe it

And I believe that you believe it the same way they believe it, and for the same reasons too.

[willowtooth]

And I believe that you believe it the same way they believe it, and for the same reasons too.
the reason being that you're constantly peddling right wing talking points.... seriously how many breitbart articles do you read in a day?

[TomLeftist]

GLF: The whole USA, the right-wing parties of USA, the right-wing people of USA, the center-left of USA (Bernie Sanders supporters, Green Party, US citizens who dont vote but who are sort of centrists moderates. And even the left and ultra-left of the USA is devoid of love, of loving other human beings, other creatures.

It is ok for me for a right-winger and a center-leftist to be evil, racist and hateful. But even the radical marxist website of World Socialistist Web Site, specially in its comments-debate section is full of people who are supposed to be leftists, but who are nationalists, xenophobic (In favor of Donald Trump's wall), treat other leftist comrades like trash and are egocentric in their world view.

Most of my families, my parents, brothers, sisters, cousins uncles etc. are also full of evil, lack of love for other humans, for poor black humans, for poor muslims etc. And are really walking digestive systems and pieces of trash (who are so materialists, that they only praise things that they can touch with their hands)

That's why they dont care if Bush killed 2 million Iraqui people (because the pieces of trash cannot touch that with their hands, cannot see it, they dont care if Donald Trump will lead USA to an economic collapse. But they are great at praising lawn-mowers, the stupid modern cars with inane gadgets and toys (like automatic parking, GPS etc), and that's why millions of americans love to visit Pawn shops, Thrifty Stores, normal retail stores. Because the great majority of US citizens are empty, are sub-humans, feel very low. And that's why they feel the need to shop and shop and buy stupid things that will tham poorer and not richer


I'm so upset and sick of everything. Everything is so fucked. After the whole shit in Charlottesville I was angry and itching for a fight but now that I've settled a bit I'm just depressed and without any hope. People are going to continue to fight and die and we can't do anything to stop it. Not to mention the president is a moron and is going to start some kind of a war. Everything is so fucked up right now and this country is so divided and pissed off. I don't even feel like fighting anymore I just want to find a rock and crawl under it and die. I can't go on like this it's destroying me and sucking all pleasure out of life. I feel like I'm in some kind of a nightmare that I can't wake up from. I've never been so politically charged and I'm just completely drained.

Nobody can see the truth - everyone embraces lies and no one cares about right or wrong only that their side wins. We are headed for civil war and there's going to be lunatics with guns running around. You better arm yourselves so as to defend those who cannot defend themselves, in the instance that things take a major turn for the worse.

I beg...we desperately need a mass movement that brings working class people together. We need it so bad. We have to be able to appeal to the great mass of people. There is so much misdirected and misguided discontent boiling over in this country and the west in general. Misplaced hatred. Workers blaming one another and it makes me want to weep so bad. We need a revolution in this country with workers of all colors and creeds - people are so hungry for this. So hungry for unity and justice and to belong. People want to belong so bad and they want their values espoused by everyone else...that's why we need a mass-movement that can unite common people on the things that bind us together...to passionately appeal to things that all workers hold common.

Sorry I just had to vent. Seriously though, we have to unite the common people and begin a fresh movement somehow, someway. This shit has to end - we can't keep doing this. We're banging our heads against the wall and the inequality worsens.

[TomLeftist]

And on top of the fact that the great majority of the 320 million people of USA are sub-humans, trash, and even literally crazy, paranoid, social phobic, agora-phobic (fear of open outdoors spaces), conformists, who suffer from The Stockholm Syndrome etc etc and many other mental disorders.

If you try to propose to them socialism as a solution for the rise in poverty and in low buying power and on destroyed dreams and destroyed blocked goals of the great majority of young people who like to be doctors or a pilot (but who are aware that they will never be that, because in capitalism college degrees are super-expensive)

If you try to tell that communism, a political party following the basic foundations of communism is the solution, they then blackmail you with the anti-USA card, the hating America card and that socialism in USSR failed (without even them checking out the statistics of the Human Development Index of USSR comparing it with the Russia of Putin today.

And that's the way these trashy people behave in all aspects of their life.

That's why I hate my parents, my brothers and sisters, my whole family and most of the people i know outside of the internet. Because another thing wrong i see in USA is that when people are members of the lower-class, they are not only banned from wealth and luxuries. But they are also banned from having any social interaction with smart, well-read, humanists interesting people. That's why the poor people in America feel so depressed, because not only they are economically poor and banned from visiting a dentist, a general doctor, an endocrinologist. But poor people, most people of the lower-classes are literally banned from inter-acting, from having good relationships with professionals of the middle class.

Because even the progressive writer Joe Bageant said that the middle class people are very evil and very violent in this video interview:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYaqEgyrh1M

.


I'm so upset and sick of everything. Everything is so fucked. After the whole shit in Charlottesville I was angry and itching for a fight but now that I've settled a bit I'm just depressed and without any hope. People are going to continue to fight and die and we can't do anything to stop it. Not to mention the president is a moron and is going to start some kind of a war. Everything is so fucked up right now and this country is so divided and pissed off. I don't even feel like fighting anymore I just want to find a rock and crawl under it and die. I can't go on like this it's destroying me and sucking all pleasure out of life. I feel like I'm in some kind of a nightmare that I can't wake up from. I've never been so politically charged and I'm just completely drained.

Nobody can see the truth - everyone embraces lies and no one cares about right or wrong only that their side wins. We are headed for civil war and there's going to be lunatics with guns running around. You better arm yourselves so as to defend those who cannot defend themselves, in the instance that things take a major turn for the worse.

I beg...we desperately need a mass movement that brings working class people together. We need it so bad. We have to be able to appeal to the great mass of people. There is so much misdirected and misguided discontent boiling over in this country and the west in general. Misplaced hatred. Workers blaming one another and it makes me want to weep so bad. We need a revolution in this country with workers of all colors and creeds - people are so hungry for this. So hungry for unity and justice and to belong. People want to belong so bad and they want their values espoused by everyone else...that's why we need a mass-movement that can unite common people on the things that bind us together...to passionately appeal to things that all workers hold common.

Sorry I just had to vent. Seriously though, we have to unite the common people and begin a fresh movement somehow, someway. This shit has to end - we can't keep doing this. We're banging our heads against the wall and the inequality worsens.

[TomLeftist]

Hi ckaihatsu: Your idea is 100% right, correct. But what I am affraid, is that the behaviour patterns of the great majority of people in US, have a sort of Roman Empire, Ancient Greek Empire, British Empire megalomaniac, self-absorbed, narcissist, family-narcissist (Family Narcissism was also very powerful in Ancient Scottland), specially in the time where nations were divided into Castles, where each castle was a sort of country. Nations were divided into many countries, and each powerful right-wing family who owned castles were very exclusivists. In USA even homeless people behave like that.

I am not Marx, Einstein, Freud, Engels so it is very hard for me to give tips to ultra-leftist activists, about what ultra-leftists should do in order to destroy the dictatorship of the Democratic Party and The Republican Party, to be replaced by a repressive dictatorship of the ultra-leftists, exercising a tyranny specifically against the overthrown right-wingers and the social-democrats who will be against that new ultra-leftist government.

But I think it will be real hard to convince the great majority of US oppressed people that the solution is a dictatorship of the proletariat. Not only because most poor low income oppressed people have never heard of capitalism, socialism and politics theories. But because most oppressed people in USA are family-narcissists, group-narcissists and-or do not have a lot of talking skills. I think Huey Newoton or Fred Hampton (i forgot who said it). Said that one of the most important things for liberation is the right communication skills in order to turn, the anger, depressions, needs, wants, goals, dreams, objectives of the masses into words, into arguments, into a conversation:

Like the following problems that the oppressed of USA have right now (like obese people who can't lose weight under capitalism, the poor people with dental problems, poor people with glaucoma, poor people with tooth-aches, poor people who are depressed (and who need mental doctors, teens and poor young people who would like to study law, medicine etc. but have no money for superior education under the current privatized university system. Like poor people who are scared of being forced to sleep on the streets. Poor black, poor latinos, poor muslims who are scared fo being killed by racists, poor people who have to burn in summer and to freeze in winter, because they don't have 500 dollars for the monthly electricity bill (under the current neoliberal model of both traditional parties) And many many more problems of about 60% to 70% of the population of the USA, who are oppressed, by 30% oif the population of USa


What I'm hearing from all of this is that workers / people need to *make a break* with identity politics (the furthest-left extent of nationalist-reformist politics), so as to move onto more-generalized and politically-appropriate *class* politics.

We should keep in mind -- and remind people -- that they're basically *dispossessed* under the system of capitalism, and that they have more strength *with others* of their same class, rather than pinning their hopes on securing their own *thinner* slice of the pie as it exists today.

In line with the liberals-are-sell-outs sentiment at the other thread, we should point out that the liberal ideology doesn't even have any political 'turf' / legitimacy to stand on, if it's willing to side with the Trump establishment on the fascist attack in Charlottesville. (And if it's *not* willing to side with fascists, then what would liberalism *propose* to do about the increasing threat from the far-right -- ?)

Polarization has the benefit of *accelerationism*, in that there's a rapidly shrinking 'middle ground' (the bourgeois nation-state), so those who think they can just 'ride it out' are going to be at a loss (politically inept, passive, and irrelevant) in the socio-political context of stark political polarization.


Ideologies & Operations -- Left Centrifugalism



https://www.revleft.space/vb/cache.php?img=http%3A%2F%2Fs6.postimg.org%2F3si9so 4xd%2F110211_Ideologies_Operations_Left_Centrifug. jpg (http://postimg.org/image/zc8b2rb3h/full/)

[TomLeftist]

GLF: And you are right. Even though, we live in a pacifist-passive society that hates pain, problems, and even hates news, and tries to get away from every thing that is painful (In USA people are taught to evade people who complain a lot). They are taught that anti-conformism people are evil to the peaceful American Dream. And thats' why i have no friends in the physical world outside of internet. Because even though the USA got a little bit revolutionary with Occupy Protests, the Anti-Police pro-blacks protests of Ferguson, the Anti-Trump protests. The USA is back to its original behaviour (Majority of people behaving like walking digestive systems, caring only about eating, taking showers, buyin food, buying soaps to take those showers, shitting, paying bills and going back to Walmarts and grocery stores again to keep on Living in a sort of ETERNAL RETURN HELL. A SORT OF ETERNAL RETURN OF THE SAME BORING LIFE. LIKE THIS VIDEO HERE "TURNING JAPANESE"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR4XNqrqxrU

And this other video Pressure by Billy Joel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyv905Q2omU

And the negative thing that I am affraid is called depressive-realism. Which means that reality is so depressive, that people who live close to reality, tend to feel depressed. And so pre-determined, that living in the USA even with spending lots of energies on reading marxist literature, in being an active ultra-leftist activist, in spending physical, mental and economic energies on leftist activism, at the end of the day is not having any major impact and both capitalist parties are still strong even with the rise of alternative leftist TV stations like The Russia Today News, Free Speech TV, Link TV and even with rich Hollywood celebrities defending Socialism, and the word "Socialism" on HBO and on corporate TV, and even mainstream politicians defending the ideology of socialism. With socialist leftist movie directors (Oliver Stone, etc), philosophical movies like Lord of the rings, The Matrix, Superman, Man of Steel, Captain American: Civil War, in which Captain America rebelled against the capitalist state. etc, even with Obama traveling to Cuba etc. even with all that, the right-wing party, The Republican Party is still powerful. As a result of all the human-trash that lives in the mid-south brain-less states and as a result of many other things like (The excess of physical labor that exists in America, like mowing lawns, people being forced to fix their houses all the time.

Living in the USA feels like a conspiracy, or maybe it is a real conspiracy of the USA rulers building the USA like it is, with cheap houses made of cheap materials, breaking down easy, forcing people to spend lots of energies in fixing their houses, toilets, changing the appliances every 1 year, changing their cars every 4 years (because cars today suck and wont last long). People trraveling 2 hours to work etc.

Maybe all this feels like this other video of the song Subdisivions by Rush (which is a sort of depressive song because it literally says that the future and lives of people are already determined and chosen by the ruling classes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYYdQB0mkEU


I'm so upset and sick of everything. Everything is so fucked. After the whole shit in Charlottesville I was angry and itching for a fight but now that I've settled a bit I'm just depressed and without any hope. People are going to continue to fight and die and we can't do anything to stop it. Not to mention the president is a moron and is going to start some kind of a war. Everything is so fucked up right now and this country is so divided and pissed off. I don't even feel like fighting anymore I just want to find a rock and crawl under it and die. I can't go on like this it's destroying me and sucking all pleasure out of life. I feel like I'm in some kind of a nightmare that I can't wake up from. I've never been so politically charged and I'm just completely drained.

Nobody can see the truth - everyone embraces lies and no one cares about right or wrong only that their side wins. We are headed for civil war and there's going to be lunatics with guns running around. You better arm yourselves so as to defend those who cannot defend themselves, in the instance that things take a major turn for the worse.

I beg...we desperately need a mass movement that brings working class people together. We need it so bad. We have to be able to appeal to the great mass of people. There is so much misdirected and misguided discontent boiling over in this country and the west in general. Misplaced hatred. Workers blaming one another and it makes me want to weep so bad. We need a revolution in this country with workers of all colors and creeds - people are so hungry for this. So hungry for unity and justice and to belong. People want to belong so bad and they want their values espoused by everyone else...that's why we need a mass-movement that can unite common people on the things that bind us together...to passionately appeal to things that all workers hold common.

Sorry I just had to vent. Seriously though, we have to unite the common people and begin a fresh movement somehow, someway. This shit has to end - we can't keep doing this. We're banging our heads against the wall and the inequality worsens.

[GLF]

the reason being that you're constantly peddling right wing talking points.... seriously how many breitbart articles do you read in a day?

I read a lot of right-wing articles just as I read a lot of liberal articles. I like to stay informed on what my enemies are disseminating.

I honestly don't know what I did to give you the impression that you have of me, but your thoughts couldn't be further from the truth. In fact if you suspect me as having right-wing sympathies because of my illiberal attitudes than I know some Marxists that you'd just downright accuse of being Nazis. Not everyone on the left is an anarchist/left-communist/whatever and not everyone adheres to New Left revisionism. But there is too much factionalism among the left today and we need to work together.


But even the radical marxist website of World Socialistist Web Site, specially in its comments-debate section is full of people who are supposed to be leftists, but who are nationalists, xenophobic (In favor of Donald Trump's wall), treat other leftist comrades like trash and are egocentric in their world view.

Are you serious? Are you sure you're interpreting them correctly? Most ICFI/Trotskyist types, even though they are a little to the right of myself, at least from what I've seen want open borders. I'd report them to the mods if I were you.

[Bohr]

I would consider myself one of the commen people too.

[ckaihatsu]

Most ICFI/Trotskyist types, even though they are a little to the right of myself


Hey, GLF, would you mind elaborating on this -- how would you consider yourself to be to the left of Trotskyists?