Cuban human rights and wrongs

[uth1984]

I am involved in a cuban soldarity movement at uni -- humanitarian, non-political, I should add -- and would like to know more of the crimes committed under the regime and the benifits which Castro has brought. It's a naive to ask that you all try to be unbiased, but the truth is far more interesting and useful than your opinions.

Cheers, Increase the peace

Charlie

[Winston Smith]

Unforunately thats partially true. Cuba whent from being a total shithole to a country that has respectable health care (some of the best in the Carribain) and a fairly good education system. Unfortunatly Fedil is authoritain so there are some police state problems.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Unfortunatly Fedil is authoritain so there are some police state problems.
Elaborate on this point please, Ive vistied cuba and saw no problems what so ever that were as a result of it being a "policed state"? As for the fact the Fidel is authoritarian, i disagree, Compared to other countries in similar positions such as North korea he is suprisingly liberal.

[Fidel Castro]

Fidel and Cuba are two issues that I have great passions about, and so I may find it hard not to let my oppinions slip through.

Indeed, the health and education systems in Cuba are really rather remarkable considering that Cuba is under economic embargo and has suffered recent economic collapse. Housing is also said to be improving and homlessness is really non-existant.

In terms of civil rights, that has always been the key issue in a Cuba debate. Cuba abides by the international laws against torture (unlike Iran, Zimbabwe and also Iraq before US invasion). Death by firing squad has recently been ended and the death penalty itself is under review, besides, the death penalty is not often used. Those that are accused of crimes get legal representation and recieve trial. Violence in prisons is frowned upon, those that do not behave are punished by means other than violence. Like most countries, prostitution is largly tolerated if frowned upon. The people are free to practice religion and it is not compulsory to join the communist party.

What Solidarity Movement are you with? Is it the CSC by any chance?

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 10:42 PM

Violence in prisons is frowned upon, those that do not behave are punished by means other than violence. Like most countries, prostitution is largly tolerated if frowned upon.
People in prisons in Cuba are kept under abusive conditions. There is massive overcrowding in cells (not unlike a lot of countries). They lose weight during incarceration, receive inadequate medical care. They are the victims of physical and sexual abuse usually at the hands of other prisoners with the asquescience of the guards. Political prisoners who denounce these poor conditions or fail to observe prison rules are frequently punished by long periods of solitary confinement, restricted visits or denial of medical treatment. This would be much harder on the older dissident prisoners who are often in their sixties and in poor health.

If everything is so good there then why does Cuba continue to deny the International Committee of the Red Cross access to it's prisons??? Why are international human rights groups denied permission to send fact finding missions to Cuba????

If Fidel has nothing to hide then he would allow these people in.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

Well perhaps he doesnt want them noseying around, trying to run the place, and saying what he should be doing without taking into account the US blockades.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 8 2004, 04:09 PM
Well perhaps he doesnt want them noseying around, trying to run the place, and saying what he should be doing without taking into account the US blockades.
He doesn't want them to see what is really going on in there and going back and telling the world about the atrocities. Can't blame the U.S. blockade for prison abuses and lack of human rights. It's got nothing to do with them telling him what to do it has to do with human rights......you know those rights that we take for granted where we live?? Imagine if your rights were taken away, you wouldn't be able to voice your opinion the way you do or use a computer to make your comments. You need to open your eyes.....take the blinders off and see what is really going on in that country.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 01:22 PM
Can't blame the U.S. blockade for prison abuses and lack of human rights.

You need to open your eyes.....take the blinders off and see what is really going on in that country.
Yes we can, we can blame practically eveything on the U$ SANCTIONS, Ironically it is probably the sanctions that keep Fidel in place, with pricks like James Cater running around trying to organize militant opposition (see arrests, last year) Cuba is under seige and at war and as such counterevolutionaries have about as much rights as the Taliban do at Guantanamo - where the real abuses are taking place...

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur Rock+Mar 9 2004, 02:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arthur Rock @ Mar 9 2004, 02:12 PM)
[email protected] 9 2004, 01:22 PM
Can&#39;t blame the U.S. blockade for prison abuses and lack of human rights.

You need to open your eyes.....take the blinders off and see what is really going on in that country.
Yes we can, we can blame practically eveything on the U&#036; SANCTIONS, Ironically it is probably the sanctions that keep Fidel in place, with pricks like James Cater running around trying to organize militant opposition (see arrests, last year) Cuba is under seige and at war and as such counterevolutionaries have about as much rights as the Taliban do at Guantanamo - where the real abuses are taking place... [/b]
Only those that agree with what Castro does would blame everything on U.S. sanctions. The cuban people have no civil rights......what does that have to do with the U.S. sanctions??? That&#39;s Castro not the U.S.. The U.S. didn&#39;t take away their freedom of expression, association assembly and movement which is strictly limited under Cuban law.....again that&#39;s Castro not the U.S.

Cuba under seige and at war......please, you&#39;ve got to do better then that.....I remember the arrests last year, summary trials that lasted from April 3-7........I wonder how fair those trials were. All because they want democracy.

[Danton]

We are basically arguing the same point on two fronts..
Again I must state that Cuba&#39;s authoritarianism stems directly from U&#036; aggression..

The arrests were of dissidents who had been regularly meeting with James Cater - head of U&#036; interests in Havana, plotting insurrection, akin basically to treason.. Some dissidents got arms (probably through Cater) and hijacked a ferry, they were summarily executed ;)

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 08:55 AM
We are basically arguing the same point on two fronts..
Again I must state that Cuba&#39;s authoritarianism stems directly from U&#036; aggression..

The arrests were of dissidents who had been regularly meeting with James Cater - head of U&#036; interests in Havana, plotting insurrection, akin basically to treason.. Some dissidents got arms (probably through Cater) and hijacked a ferry, they were summarily executed ;)
We aren&#39;t arguing the same point......what does U.S. aggression have to do with the way Castro disregards basic human rights??? So what you&#39;re saying is that because of the U.S. sanctions/aggression this gives Castro the right to deny basic human rights such as freedom of association, expression, assembly and movement??? One has nothing to do with the other. How do you justify a statement like that?? The dissidents are pro-democracy and want change......no different than what most cubans want. They are nonviolent and during the searches of their homes there were no weapons seized, just computers, fax machines, typewriters and personal papers. Tell me, how do you get violent with these things, unless you consider expressing your opinion getting violent. Expressing ones opinion and wanting democracy is not treason......if it was, most of the people of the free world would be in jail.

The highjacking had nothing to do with the dissidents and was not committed by the dissidents but by a group of individuals trying to get to the U.S. to escape Castros oppressive regime. One had nothing to do with the other.......and to execute these three men within a week of the start of summary trials gives rise to questions as to whether they received a fair trial since summary trials are not the same as a regular trial.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 02:43 PM
So what you&#39;re saying is that because of the U.S. sanctions/aggression this gives Castro the right to deny basic human rights

The dissidents are pro-democracy and want change......no different than what most cubans want. They are nonviolent and during the searches of their homes there were no weapons seized, just computers,

The highjacking had nothing to do with the dissidents and was not committed by the dissidents but by a group of individuals trying to get to the U.S. to escape Castros oppressive regime. One had nothing to do with the other.......and to execute these three men within a week of the start of summary trials gives rise to questions as to whether they received a fair trial since summary trials are not the same as a regular trial.
I&#39;m saying that under the constant aggression and threat of invasion from the U&#036; which it has been from the start - the Revolution must be guarded at all costs, and the freedom of Cuba is of greater importance than any individual or minority group..

Which brings me to - The dissidents are pro-democracy and want change......no different than what most cubans want.

Wrong&#33; They are a loud minority, the majority of Cubans keep faith in the ideals of the Revolution, prove otherwise and I&#39;ll eat my own fingers..

You also say that the dissention has nothing to do with strangely frequent (at the time) hi-jacking&#39;s, possibly.. but isn&#39;t it a coincidence that they escalated in tandem with the arrests and the pressure being heaped on by supposed Intellectuals of Europe and Cater - that fuck, it was all a co-ordinated campaign to put international pressure on Fidel.. If you can&#39;t fathom that then you are naive..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur Rock+Mar 10 2004, 03:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arthur Rock @ Mar 10 2004, 03:25 PM)
[email protected] 10 2004, 02:43 PM
So what you&#39;re saying is that because of the U.S. sanctions/aggression this gives Castro the right to deny basic human rights

The dissidents are pro-democracy and want change......no different than what most cubans want. They are nonviolent and during the searches of their homes there were no weapons seized, just computers,

The highjacking had nothing to do with the dissidents and was not committed by the dissidents but by a group of individuals trying to get to the U.S. to escape Castros oppressive regime. One had nothing to do with the other.......and to execute these three men within a week of the start of summary trials gives rise to questions as to whether they received a fair trial since summary trials are not the same as a regular trial.
I&#39;m saying that under the constant aggression and threat of invasion from the U&#036; which it has been from the start - the Revolution must be guarded at all costs, and the freedom of Cuba is of greater importance than any individual or minority group..

Which brings me to - The dissidents are pro-democracy and want change......no different than what most cubans want.

Wrong&#33; They are a loud minority, the majority of Cubans keep faith in the ideals of the Revolution, prove otherwise and I&#39;ll eat my own fingers..

You also say that the dissention has nothing to do with strangely frequent (at the time) hi-jacking&#39;s, possibly.. but isn&#39;t it a coincidence that they escalated in tandem with the arrests and the pressure being heaped on by supposed Intellectuals of Europe and Cater - that fuck, it was all a co-ordinated campaign to put international pressure on Fidel.. If you can&#39;t fathom that then you are naive.. [/b]
What freedom??? There is no freedom in Cuba....just ask the cuban people.....they&#39;ll tell you differently. There are many more cuban that want democracy than those that don&#39;t......get your nose out of books and deal with the cubans themselves. If so many agreed with the revolution then why do so many want out, and not just for economic reasons, but they want freedom. U.S. sanctions/aggressions just give the cuban government an excuse for it&#39;s repressive policies.

The dissention had nothing to do with the highjacking as that was the third highjacking in two weeks and seems to be a common occurance.

As for the revolution......time to end it.......it isn&#39;t working.

[Danton]

I have dealt with real Cubans, I&#39;ve slept on stone floors in Havana, Iv&#39;e stayed with familes who have nothing, Nothing&#33; And what? They are stupid because they hold true to an ideology? You fucking patronising ***T.

Your assertion that the majority want capitalistic democracy is baseless and without a grain of evidence... As I said, the third Hi-jacking in as many weeks is no coincidence, there was a concentrated effort..

Viva la revolucion..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 04:13 PM
I have dealt with real Cubans, I&#39;ve slept on stone floors in Havana, Iv&#39;e stayed with familes who have nothing, Nothing&#33; And what? They are stupid because they hold true to an ideology? You fucking patronising ***T.

Your assertion that the majority want capitalistic democracy is baseless and without a grain of evidence... As I said, the third Hi-jacking in as many weeks is no coincidence, there was a concentrated effort..

Viva la revolucion..
No one said anything about them being stupid, nor did I say that everyone there wants democracy but enough do and enough want freedom. As for patronizing.....speak for yourself. Highjacking has been going on there for a long time and will continue to do so as long as a repressive government continues to rule.

[Danton]

Very quickly, yes hi-jackings are more common than in other countries but them three weeks were something else IMO...

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 04:32 PM
Very quickly, yes hi-jackings are more common than in other countries but them three weeks were something else IMO...
To true but it had nothing to do with the dissidents.....it was a separate incident.....IMO....