Criminal Punishment

[Individual]

Very recently I have had to open my eyes, realizing that what is considered crime can hit very hard.

My question is:

How many feel that criminal punishment is neccessary? Do criminals from everything from narcotic possesion, to prostitution; from drunk driving, to money laundering. Should all criminals be punished with jail time? And it not, should crimes be punishable for murder?

Should narcotics be illegal, and if so, what good does it do to punish someone with taking many years from a life? Why are narcotics illegal, when they are a personal freedom? Please do not respond with a 'in a communist society...' statement. I am asking for morals here. Please state the honesty of what you truly feel.

If you do believe that those that make mistakes and commit acts of (US) crime, should all crime be punished? Or do you believe that some crime in the US should not be considered crime. Obviously serial murderers are not welcome in society, nor rapists. However should there be a limit on crime, and should we reconsider what is 'crime' and what is not?

I am asking for personal opinions, please don't answer with what goes with the flow. Answer with your own morals, and what you think is the common good.

[Individual]

Sure thought someone might have thoughts on this...

bump.

[Fidel Castro]

Governments should concentrate more on rehabilitation than punishment. In the UK I believe 2 out of 3 criminals go on to re-offend once released.

Prison should be reserved for only the worst crimes, and where rehabilitation has failed. Of course Murder, Sexual crimes, serious assaults and terroristm are crimes worthy of long jail senteces, if more to protect society from these potentially dangerous people. However even here rehabilitation is essential to minimise the risk of re-offending.

Even after release the prisoner should not be sent away and that's that. Social Work services should help the offender find decent employment, housing and monitor the progress and offer help where needed. The majority do not wish to re-offend, of that I am sure, the key is to give as little reason as possible to do so.

laws such as age limits on certain computer games and films should be abolished. Marajuana should be made legal and sold in a similar fashon to tobacco products. Bans on travel to certain nations should also be abolished.

[New Tolerance]

Criminal Psychology research has already showed that Punishing Criminals doesn't really make a difference, and does not make society safer.

more than 2/3 of the "crimes" committed are done by people who has been punished before.

[Fidel Castro]

Perhaps more than anything, imprisoning criminals is just a way to make society feel safer rather than aiming to do any real good. If they were to abolish prisons there would be a huge outcry!

[Redalias]

Just one question... If there is no "criminal punishment" how do you enforce law?

[Individual]

Here's a question:

What if there was no law?

Besides, you can enforce law through punishment aside from 'imprisonment'.

Community Service etc.

The main point is, what good does imprisoning a human do? Are we to not try to rehabilitate an individual? Murder is one thing. Imprisoning a drug addict for many years is another. We need to be able to help our society, not forget about it.

[Osman Ghazi]

My philosophy is to try to rehabilitate them. If that fails however, death is the only option. Just putting them in jail doesn't do any good.

[Commie Girl]

Rehabilitation should be the only reason to lock some one up! Most of the prisoners seem to have come from very disadvantaged backgrounds, so throwing them in prison and releasing them years later, without any rehab or advancement, makes no sense whatso ever.

[Fidel Castro]

death is the only option

Absolutly not! If an individual fails a rehabillitation course we do not just then kill them. It's not like a toy you throw away when it breaks!

Consider those undergoing drug rehab sometimes have a "downer" causing them to go back to drugs, in your view should we then just take them to a field to be shot? I would prefer to think that the individual would be given the assistance to come out of the slump.

Sure, just jailing offenders doesn&#39;t usually do them any good, but killing them doesn&#39;t do them any good either&#33; Ever considered moving to Texas? <_<

[Capitalist Imperial]

I will not suffer this trite criminal apologism.

People are responsible for their own actions. If they do the crime, they do the time. I really don&#39;t believe that rehabilitation works either, but I want them off the street and locked up, exactly where they belong and receiving what they deserve, for the sake of punishment, whether they learn anything or not. Leaving them on the streets would in no way be a better alternative.

However, as usual, the liberals want to keep them on the streets so they can continue to perpetuate the drug/crime problem, and have more illegitimate babies hooked on crack.

I don&#39;t care what "criminal psychology" statistics say, as those studies only focus on people who have already offended, and does not take into consideration the peoiple with an iota of common sense that are deterred by the thought of going to prison, and thus they never committ a crime and don&#39;t go to jail in the 1st place. There is no way to accurately measure this phenomeneon on a populace. The reason that offensders tend to repeat is that they were stupid enough to proceed with a crime the 1st time, when they knew about the consequences then. Most potential offenders think twice before committing the 1st crime, that is the key deterrent potential of incarceration.

[Fidel Castro]

People are responsible for their own actions

True, but you also have to ask what drives them to those actions. Very few people carry out crime for the sake of it, many do so out of despiration (in which case it is often the fault of the state for failing such desperate individuals), and others do so out of a moment of loss of rational thought (such as murder suspects).


I really don&#39;t believe that rehabilitation works either, but I want them off the street and locked up, exactly where they belong and receiving what they deserve, for the sake of punishment, whether they learn anything or not

Rehab can make a huge difference to those in drug-related crime especially, but also has the potential to help many more. You say it doesn&#39;t matter if they learn anything or not, but think what happens when some of these people get out of prison, they committ another crime, ruin another life, or several lives in the process. Punishment for the sake of Punishment is pointless and Kantian.

The fact is, prison does not act as a deterrant for crime, especially when people are made so desperate that crime is the only option for them.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Blaming the state for the actions of the individual is a terrible cop-out. I will not hold the state responsible for someone committing a crime under the horrible excuse of "desperation".

[Y2A]

I agree with CI, fuck this crap about the "poor" individual forced to kill or rape by his "society". It&#39;s a cop-out, that is all it is. A scapegoat because people can&#39;t admit that some people are just naturally bad human beings.

[BuyOurEverything]

People are responsible for their own actions. If they do the crime, they do the time.

And what does that accompish, other than making you feel better?


I really don&#39;t believe that rehabilitation works either

Well if you&#39;re going to just state a lie as blatant as that, I would expect at least some falsified statistics from a conservative christian website. Why do not believe that rehabilitation works?


but I want them off the street and locked up, exactly where they belong and receiving what they deserve

Maybe they would be &#39;off the street&#39; if they actually had a house. However, violent criminals that pose an immidiate risk to society could be temporarily imprisoned, in humane conditions, while they are being rehabilitated.

The problem with prison is that you&#39;re taking thousands of violent criminals and locking them all together in small cages, then releasing them back into society, without any rehabilitation. This is a dangerous system merely from a practical point of view, unless you&#39;re advocating imprisoning all criminals indefinately.


However, as usual, the liberals want to keep them on the streets so they can continue to perpetuate the drug/crime problem, and have more illegitimate babies hooked on crack.

Want to solve the drug/crime problem? Legalise drugs. This would almost completely cut off the funding of orginized crime and drug dealers.


I don&#39;t care what "criminal psychology" statistics say, as those studies only focus on people who have already offended, and does not take into consideration the peoiple with an iota of common sense that are deterred by the thought of going to prison, and thus they never committ a crime and don&#39;t go to jail in the 1st place. There is no way to accurately measure this phenomeneon on a populace. The reason that offensders tend to repeat is that they were stupid enough to proceed with a crime the 1st time, when they knew about the consequences then. Most potential offenders think twice before committing the 1st crime, that is the key deterrent potential of incarceration.

First of all, by your own admission, there is no evidence at all to support your claim that the only reason people don&#39;t commit crimes is fear of prison. There is no way you could possibly prove it. Kind of "faith based" concept. Second, if deterence is your only goal, why not execute everybody for any crime at all?


Absolutly not&#33; If an individual fails a rehabillitation course we do not just then kill them. It&#39;s not like a toy you throw away when it breaks&#33;

No, it&#39;s not like a toy. Because when a criminal &#39;fails&#39; a rehabilitation course, people die. If rehabilitation fails, it is an unnacceptable risk to the public to release them anyways or try it again.


Consider those undergoing drug rehab sometimes have a "downer" causing them to go back to drugs, in your view should we then just take them to a field to be shot? I would prefer to think that the individual would be given the assistance to come out of the slump.


Doing drugs is not the same as violent crime. The fact that you would compare the two is ridiculous.


Sure, just jailing offenders doesn&#39;t usually do them any good, but killing them doesn&#39;t do them any good either&#33; Ever considered moving to Texas?

The point of killing them isn&#39;t to do them good. If it is neccessary to kill a criminal, it means that they are a danger to society and have shown themselves to not be capable of being rehabilitated. At this point, there is no other option.

[New Tolerance]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 02:31 AM
I agree with CI, fuck this crap about the "poor" individual forced to kill or rape by his "society". It&#39;s a cop-out, that is all it is. A scapegoat because people can&#39;t admit that some people are just naturally bad human beings.
And why is it that I think this comment is also a scapegoat made by the more strategic bad people deliberately trying to find people to hurt (born agressive), but just want to do it with the approval of others, so they will get away with doing the exact same thing?

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 3 2004, 06:44 PM
If that fails however, death is the only option. Just putting them in jail doesn&#39;t do any good.
:D That is pretty easy for YOU to say...what about people who are FALSELY accused and CONVICTED?

[New Tolerance]

Originally posted by sexydj4u+Mar 5 2004, 04:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sexydj4u @ Mar 5 2004, 04:34 PM)
Osman [email protected] 3 2004, 06:44 PM
If that fails however, death is the only option. Just putting them in jail doesn&#39;t do any good.
:D That is pretty easy for YOU to say...what about people who are FALSELY accused and CONVICTED? [/b]
Seriously.

This is the thing, everyone think that this criminal justice thing can&#39;t happen to them, because they think they are "good" people. So when it comes to talking about it, they don&#39;t really give a damn about the well being of the convicted, until they themselves end up running into some trouble. Then they will start trying to explain how it&#39;s not their fault, but now it&#39;s too late. Once they put that label of criminal on you, nobody will give a damn about what you say, to them, you are no longer a person, you are a symbol. A symbol of all of their problems, and they just want to get rid of you and move on.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by New [email protected] 5 2004, 03:04 PM
This is the thing, everyone think that this criminal justice thing can&#39;t happen to them, because they think they are "good" people. So when it comes to talking about it, they don&#39;t really give a damn about the well being of the convicted, until they themselves end up running into some trouble. Then they will start trying to explain how it&#39;s not their fault, but now it&#39;s too late. Once they put that label of criminal on you, nobody will give a damn about you say, to them, you are no longer a person, you are a symbol. A symbol of all of their problems, and they just want to get rid of you and move on.
:angry:

This is my point exactly.... my son, when he was 14, was accused and charged with raping a 12 year old girl....unfortuantely, the trial wan&#39;t for 6 months....she of course, said on the stand that she "made the whole thing up"&#33;

My son was a draft pick for the WHL (hockey) and that dream was gone...forever.... when he was charged....we went bankrupt paying lawyer fees and because of the stress this put on our family, and now my ex-husband has commited suicide....so don&#39;t even think about telling me that there is any reason for the death penalty. My son is now 21 and TRYING to get his life together...because once you come to the attention of the cops, look out&#33; There are always people who think he MUST have done it because he was charged&#33; This will haunt him for the rest of his life. :(

This DOES happen, it could happen to you&#33;

[Fidel Castro]

Your story is a prime example of how the search for so called justice (which more often than not is just a cloak for revenge) has the potential to ruin people&#39;s lives, even when they are innocent.

Something needs to change, should the accused not be given the right of confidentiality, especially before trial in which case the accused is supposedly innocent until proven guilty.

[Le Libérer]

Using drugs is not a personal right. It&#39;s against the law. Wanna smoke pot, don&#39;t get caught...or move to a place where its legal.

I must say, If someone who murders a fellow human being knew they would see a firing squad, I think that would be rehabilitation enough to figure out you just dont want to do it.

You ever wonder why Castro has the drug problem under control in Cuba? Cubans know what will happen if they are caught with drugs. In the middle east, if are you caught smuggling herion, you are tried as a mass murderer. Yeah, that would deter me from smuggling.

Theres something to be said about knowing the consquences for broken laws and adhering to them.

[Individual]

In the middle east, if are you caught smuggling herion, you are tried as a mass murderer. Yeah, that would deter me from smuggling.

That is wonderful that it would deter you. However has it stopped in the middle east? Hell no. People are willing to take the risks.

Here in the US if you are caught in a large drug ring, you are facing life in prison. This is the equivalent to a murderer. However, in the US are people worried about this? No.

Rehabilitation is not supposed to be a deterrant. Realize this. It is supposed to help the people, not take away their lives. Everyone makes mistakes, and I&#39;m sure we can all agree on that. So why should you be deprived from years of your life, for making a mistake?

Obviously prison is needed for serious crime. However my main point in this question is, have the limits of crime gone overboard? Are we imprisoning people for personal freedoms? Is this sane and humane to take away someone&#39;s life for petty crime?

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 5 2004, 01:49 AM
People are responsible for their own actions. If they do the crime, they do the time. I really don&#39;t believe that rehabilitation works either, but I want them off the street and locked up, exactly where they belong and receiving what they deserve, for the sake of punishment, whether they learn anything or not. Leaving them on the streets would in no way be a better alternative.
So, basically, you want to spend the taxpayers money on feeding criminals??? You must be insane. I&#39;m not surprised that this come from the side of the spectrum who asks for tax cuts, but don&#39;t mind if all the taxes they pay are used to create nuclear bombs.


However, as usual, the liberals want to keep them on the streets so they can continue to perpetuate the drug/crime problem, and have more illegitimate babies hooked on crack.

Be careful, the liberal press is out there to get you... :rolleyes:


Most potential offenders think twice before committing the 1st crime, that is the key deterrent potential of incarceration.

Yeah sure, they sit down for 3 hours thinking about if they should rape that woman over there or not...seriously, I suppose they all think they can escape the law.


This is the thing, everyone think that this criminal justice thing can&#39;t happen to them, because they think they are "good" people. So when it comes to talking about it, they don&#39;t really give a damn about the well being of the convicted, until they themselves end up running into some trouble. Then they will start trying to explain how it&#39;s not their fault, but now it&#39;s too late. Once they put that label of criminal on you, nobody will give a damn about what you say, to them, you are no longer a person, you are a symbol. A symbol of all of their problems, and they just want to get rid of you and move on.

Exactly&#33; They all think that by letting the politidiots that manage their lives spend the money they pay with their taxes in electric chairs or prisons they are safe. Or they don&#39;t care about that money spent onthe criminal&#39;s food rations while they are isolated from themselves. Not only the attitude of "let&#39;s hang them&#33;" is stupid, and almost the same as comitting a crime, but it&#39;s not productive, not even for the economy. I say we give guns to 2 or 3 trustable people to watch those who have been proven guilty while their work all day in the hardest jobs you can imagine, so that at least they give things back to society and gain their own food. If you think that oppose my ideas then you must be insane, because if you make a crime such as raping or murdering it&#39;s clear that you don&#39;t respect freedom.

Some drugs should be legalized and people must understand the consequences of using them.

[Le Libérer]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 07:59 AM

In the middle east, if are you caught smuggling herion, you are tried as a mass murderer. Yeah, that would deter me from smuggling.

That is wonderful that it would deter you. However has it stopped in the middle east? Hell no. People are willing to take the risks.

Here in the US if you are caught in a large drug ring, you are facing life in prison. This is the equivalent to a murderer. However, in the US are people worried about this? No.

Rehabilitation is not supposed to be a deterrant. Realize this. It is supposed to help the people, not take away their lives. Everyone makes mistakes, and I&#39;m sure we can all agree on that. So why should you be deprived from years of your life, for making a mistake?

Obviously prison is needed for serious crime. However my main point in this question is, have the limits of crime gone overboard? Are we imprisoning people for personal freedoms? Is this sane and humane to take away someone&#39;s life for petty crime?
Are you saying smuggling herion is a petty crime? Herion =death. It kills the soul and is nearly impossible to kick it. What is considered a petty crime?

IMO, I believe marijana should be legalized. My AIDS patients that smoke pot almost all of them are still alive today, alot of them 15 and 20 years full blown.

I&#39;m not sure a murderer who commits the crime, premeditated can be rehabilitated. There is something called the criminal mentality, a sociapath. And child sex offenders are usually unrehabiltiable. These are the people who dont want to risk putting out on the streets again.

[Individual]

DA.

Did you even read my post? Or did you just read the first paragraph? Did I say that murder was not a serious crime?

I am talking about &#39;petty crime&#39;. As in possesion of narcotics, traffic violations, prostitution, etc.

Here, read my last two paragraphs, and see if you don&#39;t understand:

"Rehabilitation is not supposed to be a deterrant. Realize this. It is supposed to help the people, not take away their lives. Everyone makes mistakes, and I&#39;m sure we can all agree on that. So why should you be deprived from years of your life, for making a mistake?

Obviously prison is needed for serious crime. However my main point in this question is, have the limits of crime gone overboard? Are we imprisoning people for personal freedoms? Is this sane and humane to take away someone&#39;s life for petty crime? "

My point is, have the &#39;perimeters&#39; of crime gone to far? Are we imprisoning people for things that are personal freedoms, or minor mistakes in which the offender can be rehabilitated.

I agree that there are psycopaths out there, however what about the people that have murdered in self-defense? Do you think that these people are likely to kill again, and are not worthy of rehabilitation? There should be limits on what we consider crime, and imprisoning a human body and mind is not acceptable for minor mistakes in which a person can be rehabilitated.

The thing is, most people don&#39;t realize what actually happens to a &#39;criminal&#39;. They don&#39;t think about it, they flat out don&#39;t care. Just as long as it doesn&#39;t happen to them. This is why many people defend it, and label all offenders under the stereotype of &#39;cold hard criminal&#39;. And that&#39;s that.

[SittingBull47]

this country is too concerned with the PUNISHMENT of criminals that the rehabilitation is overlooked. Here&#39;s a new idea, why don&#39;t we try to guide the wrong-doers so they stop doing whatever they&#39;re doing?&#33;

A government that is more concerned on punishing people proves that they don&#39;t hold the population very high.