Fidel Castro

[AmericanZionist2004]

I just wanted to know all of your opinios on Fidel Castro. I think he is an oppressive Stalinesque dictator, and likely not what Che Guevara envisioned for Cuba. Just wanted to know.

[LuZhiming]

Che Guevara was much more authoritarian than Fidel. Personally, I think Fidel wouldn't be very reppressive if there weren't so many attempts to subvert and kill him.

I do not support many of Fidel's actions against "counter-revolutionaries," but again, I don't think it's because he's evil, but paranoid and constantly under threat. Fidel has helped Cuba in many ways, he has done so in equality, healthcare, scientific research, medical research, reforestation, political organization, freedom from the U.S., etc. Cuban doctors and teachers have also done many good things in other nations. I also support Fidel's defiance of the U.S. I do believe he should pay more attention to the enviornment and water supply. What is unfortunate to me, is that Fidel would have been able to do so much more if he wasn't suffering from such economic strangulation, internatnional terrorism, and methods to inspire Cubans to overthrow him.(Which have been unsuccessful.)

[Dirty Commie]

His authoritarianism is bad, but he has done more good for the people of Cuba and for the third world than anyone else has, he has never sponsored an invasion (sponsoring revolution is quite different). I think that while many, if not most Cubans would like a bigger say in governmen, I feel that they are happier with socialism than they would be under capitalism.

[Winston Smith]

Fidel has doen many good things for Cuba mainly in education and healthcare. There is autoritarianism because there have been atemtps on his live and a US back invation so it is fairly justifiable.

[Dirty Commie]

Onething I'd like to know is how the communist party would hold up if there were elections supervised by the UN.
I've heard from my friend who went to Cuba a few months ago that the opinion of Fidel is that he is in need of a successor, but a socialist one but with more emphasis on democracy and socialism.

[Vinny Rafarino]

likely not what Che Guevara envisioned for Cuba


Don't know much about comrade Guevara do you?







My opinion is that Comrade Castro has done the very best he could in a really bad situation. It's a feat in itself that Cuba did not fall to imperialist aggression in '91.


For all those "socialists" that claim Comrade Castro's policies are against Marxism and are in no way "socialist" I implore YOU to fly your arse to Havana and try to do ANY better in the existing conditions.

I guarantee you will be in bed right next to Uncle Sam giving him a 5 peso handjob in 6 weeks.

[Fidel Castro]

In my oppinion, Fidel is the first man that has managed to give the Cuban people what they have been yearning for years, freedom from foreign domination, either by Spain or the US.

Whilst it would be foolish to claim that Cuba is perfect under Fidel, he has done a really fantastic job with the resources and finances available. Healthcare and education are the two areas in particular that shine as a success for Socialism, and his aid to foreign nations, from Haiti most recently to the Angolan struggle against the apartheid government of South Africa, even Nelson Mandela said,

"If it were not for Cuba, I would not be a free man today"

The main struggle for Fidel has always been trying to put some life into Cuba's economy (in which he was starting to have success up until the Soviet collapse) and also avoiding the wrath of the colossius to the North. The only real criticims he has recieved as a leader are the civil rights issues, however many academics accept that US aggression is a large factor contributing to Fidel's determination to preserve the revolution from both external and internal enemies.

Whatever people's feelings on Fidel, from supporters like myself to critics such as Bu$h, he is widely known for his charisma, and passion for the Cuban revolution he led. He is a campaigner for social justice, and anti-capitalism and in the past has rallied the likes of Nelson Mandella and Malcom X to the Cuban cause.

[sparky44]

He's a communist dictator that is long overdue for replacement. Sure he's done some good for the country but that was in the beginning of the revolution.......well the revolution is over (even though he doesn't think it is) and now is the time for change. He may have given them freedom from foreign domination but that was replaced by domination by Castro and the communist party. If he has done such a fantastic job with the resources and finances available then why is the main problem there malnutrition. Castro rakes in quite a bit of money on the tourist trade yet the average worker makes about 200 pesos a month. What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban, especially if they don't work in the tourist trade and even then tips aren't always that much. As for civil rights in Cuba......you have none.......try and speak out against the government and see where it gets you. He needs to take care of his own people before he worries about other countries......considering the poverty in Cuba wouldn't that make more sense?? Everything there is for the tourist......not for the cuban so I don't understand how one can admire a leader that walks all over his own people like this.

[__ca va?]

I don't like Fidel and I tell you why: i think it was him who wanted to get rid of Che. When Che went to Kongo he wrote a letter to Fidel he was supposed to read up for the people only after the death of Che. In fact, Fidel read it up when Che was still alive (Che said about this: It's not funny when they are trying to bury you alive). In Bolivia, God knows why, neither funding nor reinforcements arrived. Their connectives went back to Cuba and no new ones came. So I think these couldn't be just accidents.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Greatest man living. 'Nuff said.

[Fidel Castro]

"sparky",


He's a communist dictator that is long overdue for replacement

This is exactly the kind of U$ attitude that he has meant Fidel having to watch his back constantly for decades, oh and this dictator last held a general election in 1997/98, when most of the candidates voted in were new candidates.


well the revolution is over (even though he doesn't think it is) and now is the time for change.

lol, simply gaining power does not mark the end to a revolution. Consider the fact that he has had to defend the success of the revolution from foreign aggression, attempted mercinary invasion, terrorist attacks, illegal trade embargo and a wave of U$ anti-Fidel propaganda. I agree with you totally that it is a time for change, and Cuba is changing, human rights are improving and Cuba is slowly opening herself up to the outside world. For Cuba to change further the U$ needs to end it's spitefull campaign against Cuba.


He may have given them freedom from foreign domination but that was replaced by domination by Castro and the communist party.

Batista needed to be removed, and the United States were unwilling to do so, because it was not in their economic interests. Trade Unions, the Cuban equivallent of parliament, and several organisations including a woman's union all influence Cuban life.


If he has done such a fantastic job with the resources and finances available then why is the main problem there malnutrition

lol, you obviously have some impression that Fidel has a vast amount of resources and finances available. Note that before the Soviet collapse and resulting Cuban economic collapse there was no rationing as food was in pleanty supply, the economy was doing rather well. Times have hardened, and rationing is in place. Of course, the illegal trade embargo is nothing but an act of starving the Cubans into submission.


Castro rakes in quite a bit of money on the tourist trade yet the average worker makes about 200 pesos a month.

The tourist trade in Cuba is relatively new, and most of the money made from it has been funneled back into expanding this industry, I will admit that this is a questionable policy. However, do not get the impression that tourism will solve all of Cubas financial problems, potential thousands of tourists avoid Cuba due to the U$ travel ban, and the Western propaganda of Cuba also acts to dissuade some from visiting. None of that 22 pesos a month has to go towards health insurance, pension funds or education bills.


What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban, especially if they don't work in the tourist trade and even then tips aren't always that much.

lol, tips are not a responsability for the government. It is a sad fact that to attract more tourists, prices must be reasonable. Importing certain goods, notably pharmacutical goods and electronics is a costly affair, and that reflects on the price Cubans are forced to pay. This high pricing has not always been the case.


As for civil rights in Cuba......you have none.......try and speak out against the government and see where it gets you

This is always the area which the Western propaganda machine attacks hardest. The appears to be some illusion that anyone who so much as criticises the government is rounded up and locked away for years. This is not the case, Cuba is no Stalinist state. Execution is becoming a rare occurance, torture is not used in accordance with international law, and all accused are tried and can have legal representation. The United States media makes it very difficult for people to voice their support for Cuba, and the Cuban media does the same towards the US. People in Cuba do criticise their government, however just now it is frowned upon as helping the US cause. Academics have argued that if the US were to resume normal relations with Cuba, then civil rights would relax in Cuba.


He needs to take care of his own people before he worries about other countries......considering the poverty in Cuba wouldn't that make more sense??

Should Bush not worry about his own people before spending billions on Iraq? Should Blair not spend the billions he wasted bombing Iraq on the NHS? Cooperation between nations, and international aid is a perfectly normal activity, and should be applauded rather than criticised. It is a great shame that developing nations like Cuba have to take responsability for their neigbours because selfish capitalist nations like the U$ are only willing to invest in nations they can gain profit from!


Everything there is for the tourist......not for the cuban so I don't understand how one can admire a leader that walks all over his own people like this.

Yes, a fantastic nationalised Health service and education system which would be a great burden off the governments shoulders if privatised is merely in place for tourists, as well as social security and continuing falling unemployment. The hotels and resorts are there for the tourists, of course they are, and just like you can walk through London and see tours of this that and the next you can see the same in Havana.

Fidel has been demonized by the U$ because of his refusal to follow the examples of most other nations and keep in line with U$ interests. Before the revolution Cuba was seen by the US as just an extension of their territory, one US politician once said that it was "inevitable" that Cuba would become US territory. Castro nationalised the major US companies in Cuba, and then had the nerve in US eyes to take a socialist path and look to the USSR for assistance (despite the fact that the US shunned Cuba, I meen who else was Fidel to turn to for trade and protection from US aggression?)

The former presidential palace, occupied b Batista with US support, is now literally a museum. Instead of fine suits, Fidels preferres drab military uniform. Instead of travelling in limos, fidel goes in an army jeep. Instead of speaking from a palace office, he goes into the streets and speaks to his people.

Fidel does not walk over his people, he walks amoungst his people.................

Geng

[Lardlad95]

You've totally bought into every negative thing said about castro haven't you?


Sure he's done some good for the country but that was in the beginning of the revolution.......

....Tthe Urban Farming program? The Preventive MEdicine Research? THE EDUCATION PROGRAMS? Those were done at the beginning of the revolution? I'm sorry which cuba are we talking about?


If he has done such a fantastic job with the resources and finances available then why is the main problem there malnutrition.

For one the famine that existed in the early to mid ninties is being eradicated mainly by new agricultural reforms.

Second the US embargo has done a number on Cuba. Because Cuba can't import food from the closest and cheapest markets they have to spend more inportiing them from lower quality markets farther away.


What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban, especially if they don't work in the tourist trade and even then tips aren't always that much.


Of course it's cheap for the tourist...the Tourist isn't from a third world nation. Cuba is a third world nation, it's done alot better than most third world nations, but it is still third world none the less.




As for civil rights in Cuba......you have none.......try and speak out against the government and see where it gets you.

1. Some of the "counter-revolutionaries" as castro calls them weren't just protestors. Some of them were terroists from the Miami Mafia, I suggest you look into them, go to http://www.cubasocialista.com/orgeng4.htm#what

That contains info on Cuban Exile Terrorists. They have names of the organizations too

http://www.cubasocialista.com/orgeng0.htm

this site contains info on teh MAfia in general

2. You can speak your mind in Cuba. Alot of people do. Now you don't have as much freedm of speech as you do in America, but Castro isn't Trujillo. He doesn't slaughter people who disagree with him.

3. Cubanet has lots of Contributors in Cuba who are anti-castro.



For a poor nation Cuba has made alot of strides. But hey if you want it to go back to how it was under Batista be my guest.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 06:06 PM
likely not what Che Guevara envisioned for Cuba.


I think Che Guevara was a brilliant man, but let's face it, he was much more radical than Fidel EVER was! :P

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by COMRADE [email protected] 2 2004, 06:48 PM

likely not what Che Guevara envisioned for Cuba


Don't know much about comrade Guevara do you?







My opinion is that Comrade Castro has done the very best he could in a really bad situation. It's a feat in itself that Cuba did not fall to imperialist aggression in '91.


For all those "socialists" that claim Comrade Castro's policies are against Marxism and are in no way "socialist" I implore YOU to fly your arse to Havana and try to do ANY better in the existing conditions.

I guarantee you will be in bed right next to Uncle Sam giving him a 5 peso handjob in 6 weeks.
:unsure: OOps! Sorry Comrade! I should read ALL the posts first, then reply.


I am 3'4 of the way through Jon Andersons difinitive book on Che, and I can't wait till I go to Cuba in a couple of months!

Fidel Castro is truly a remarkable man, and yes, he has fucked up a few things, but all in all, Cuba is a country that has done very well under his leadership. Surviving the brutal embargo by the U$ is a feat unto itself!

[Don't Change Your Name]

I think he is a nice guy


But on politics I think that the Cuban people need a bit more of freedom and more direct democracy. It's time to stop moving into a new order and leave the state capitalism.

I don't agree with some policies they have but Cuba still seems to be doing pretty good considering their situation. If Cuba would be under capitalism I'm sure most people would be in absolute poverty, without education, health and working in ugly sweatshops for 2 cents a year. But if Cuba would be split in 2, one being "leftist" and the other being capitalist, I'm sure that for some weird reason the capitalist one would be in richness...

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 03:20 AM
What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban,
Fidel is doing what is necessary to keep the country communist. Nowto teh above quote im not sure if you mean tourist pay cheaps for things, if you do you a complete fool everybody knows that locals rip off tourist because the dont know the value of the goods being sold to them. All the people i know who are experinced travelers know that you wacth what the locals do and buy and it will be much cheaper.

[The Feral Underclass]

He's another failed example of a dud theory...

[Danton]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 4 2004, 02:41 PM
He's another failed example of a dud theory...
Right,

If you consider being the longest serving premier in the world to be a failure, if you consider leading your beloved people out of the gangsterism and corruption of yankee imperialism a failure..

If you consider repelling a U.S.A led invasion a failure and emerging unscathed from decades of assassianation attempts a failure, if you consider implementing agrarian reforms a failure or creating a health service which is the envy of South America a failure, if you consider cutting crime to aroundabouts zero a failure, an Olympic team delivering medals upon medals a failure, surviving the death of the Soviet union a failure, I call all these things a triumph!

Cuba is a tiny island, Fidel is one man.. More of a man than anyone here could ever imagine, without him Cuba would've been royally fucked, by the Yankees, by the Soviets.. As it is, Cubans own Cuba and long may that last..

:castro: Viva el Lider

[sparky44]

Originally posted by comrade neonate+Mar 4 2004, 05:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (comrade neonate @ Mar 4 2004, 05:10 AM)
[email protected] 3 2004, 03:20 AM
What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban,
Fidel is doing what is necessary to keep the country communist. Nowto teh above quote im not sure if you mean tourist pay cheaps for things, if you do you a complete fool everybody knows that locals rip off tourist because the dont know the value of the goods being sold to them. All the people i know who are experinced travelers know that you wacth what the locals do and buy and it will be much cheaper. [/b]
Duh.....no shit shirlock. Obviously the locals will try to rip off tourists by upping prices....that goes anywhere that there is tourism. That&#39;s not what I&#39;m talking about....read the rest of the post. Considering the average cuban makes about 200 pesos a month.....just how far do you think that goes?? Clothes aren&#39;t that cheap, and I&#39;m not talking designer clothes. The necessities of life aren&#39;t cheap.....the average cuban can&#39;t afford to buy a dozen eggs. What you and I take for granted is not easily accessible to them.

[Fidel Castro]

Ok "Sparky", although I would beg to differ of this definition, you encourage people to "read the rest of your post", why do you yourself not read the replies given to your post?

For your benifit, I&#39;ll re-post my reply here



He&#39;s a communist dictator that is long overdue for replacement


This is exactly the kind of U&#036; attitude that he has meant Fidel having to watch his back constantly for decades, oh and this dictator last held a general election in 1997/98, when most of the candidates voted in were new candidates.



well the revolution is over (even though he doesn&#39;t think it is) and now is the time for change.


lol, simply gaining power does not mark the end to a revolution. Consider the fact that he has had to defend the success of the revolution from foreign aggression, attempted mercinary invasion, terrorist attacks, illegal trade embargo and a wave of U&#036; anti-Fidel propaganda. I agree with you totally that it is a time for change, and Cuba is changing, human rights are improving and Cuba is slowly opening herself up to the outside world. For Cuba to change further the U&#036; needs to end it&#39;s spitefull campaign against Cuba.



He may have given them freedom from foreign domination but that was replaced by domination by Castro and the communist party.


Batista needed to be removed, and the United States were unwilling to do so, because it was not in their economic interests. Trade Unions, the Cuban equivallent of parliament, and several organisations including a woman&#39;s union all influence Cuban life.



If he has done such a fantastic job with the resources and finances available then why is the main problem there malnutrition


lol, you obviously have some impression that Fidel has a vast amount of resources and finances available. Note that before the Soviet collapse and resulting Cuban economic collapse there was no rationing as food was in pleanty supply, the economy was doing rather well. Times have hardened, and rationing is in place. Of course, the illegal trade embargo is nothing but an act of starving the Cubans into submission.



Castro rakes in quite a bit of money on the tourist trade yet the average worker makes about 200 pesos a month.


The tourist trade in Cuba is relatively new, and most of the money made from it has been funneled back into expanding this industry, I will admit that this is a questionable policy. However, do not get the impression that tourism will solve all of Cubas financial problems, potential thousands of tourists avoid Cuba due to the U&#036; travel ban, and the Western propaganda of Cuba also acts to dissuade some from visiting. None of that 22 pesos a month has to go towards health insurance, pension funds or education bills.



What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban, especially if they don&#39;t work in the tourist trade and even then tips aren&#39;t always that much.


lol, tips are not a responsability for the government. It is a sad fact that to attract more tourists, prices must be reasonable. Importing certain goods, notably pharmacutical goods and electronics is a costly affair, and that reflects on the price Cubans are forced to pay. This high pricing has not always been the case.



As for civil rights in Cuba......you have none.......try and speak out against the government and see where it gets you


This is always the area which the Western propaganda machine attacks hardest. The appears to be some illusion that anyone who so much as criticises the government is rounded up and locked away for years. This is not the case, Cuba is no Stalinist state. Execution is becoming a rare occurance, torture is not used in accordance with international law, and all accused are tried and can have legal representation. The United States media makes it very difficult for people to voice their support for Cuba, and the Cuban media does the same towards the US. People in Cuba do criticise their government, however just now it is frowned upon as helping the US cause. Academics have argued that if the US were to resume normal relations with Cuba, then civil rights would relax in Cuba.


He needs to take care of his own people before he worries about other countries......considering the poverty in Cuba wouldn&#39;t that make more sense??


Should Bush not worry about his own people before spending billions on Iraq? Should Blair not spend the billions he wasted bombing Iraq on the NHS? Cooperation between nations, and international aid is a perfectly normal activity, and should be applauded rather than criticised. It is a great shame that developing nations like Cuba have to take responsability for their neigbours because selfish capitalist nations like the U&#036; are only willing to invest in nations they can gain profit from&#33;


Everything there is for the tourist......not for the cuban so I don&#39;t understand how one can admire a leader that walks all over his own people like this.


Yes, a fantastic nationalised Health service and education system which would be a great burden off the governments shoulders if privatised is merely in place for tourists, as well as social security and continuing falling unemployment. The hotels and resorts are there for the tourists, of course they are, and just like you can walk through London and see tours of this that and the next you can see the same in Havana.

Fidel has been demonized by the U&#036; because of his refusal to follow the examples of most other nations and keep in line with U&#036; interests. Before the revolution Cuba was seen by the US as just an extension of their territory, one US politician once said that it was "inevitable" that Cuba would become US territory. Castro nationalised the major US companies in Cuba, and then had the nerve in US eyes to take a socialist path and look to the USSR for assistance (despite the fact that the US shunned Cuba, I meen who else was Fidel to turn to for trade and protection from US aggression?)

The former presidential palace, occupied b Batista with US support, is now literally a museum. Instead of fine suits, Fidels preferres drab military uniform. Instead of travelling in limos, fidel goes in an army jeep. Instead of speaking from a palace office, he goes into the streets and speaks to his people.

Fidel does not walk over his people, he walks amoungst his people.................

Geng

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 10:24 PM
"sparky",


He&#39;s a communist dictator that is long overdue for replacement

This is exactly the kind of U&#036; attitude that he has meant Fidel having to watch his back constantly for decades, oh and this dictator last held a general election in 1997/98, when most of the candidates voted in were new candidates.


well the revolution is over (even though he doesn&#39;t think it is) and now is the time for change.

lol, simply gaining power does not mark the end to a revolution. Consider the fact that he has had to defend the success of the revolution from foreign aggression, attempted mercinary invasion, terrorist attacks, illegal trade embargo and a wave of U&#036; anti-Fidel propaganda. I agree with you totally that it is a time for change, and Cuba is changing, human rights are improving and Cuba is slowly opening herself up to the outside world. For Cuba to change further the U&#036; needs to end it&#39;s spitefull campaign against Cuba.


He may have given them freedom from foreign domination but that was replaced by domination by Castro and the communist party.

Batista needed to be removed, and the United States were unwilling to do so, because it was not in their economic interests. Trade Unions, the Cuban equivallent of parliament, and several organisations including a woman&#39;s union all influence Cuban life.


If he has done such a fantastic job with the resources and finances available then why is the main problem there malnutrition

lol, you obviously have some impression that Fidel has a vast amount of resources and finances available. Note that before the Soviet collapse and resulting Cuban economic collapse there was no rationing as food was in pleanty supply, the economy was doing rather well. Times have hardened, and rationing is in place. Of course, the illegal trade embargo is nothing but an act of starving the Cubans into submission.


Castro rakes in quite a bit of money on the tourist trade yet the average worker makes about 200 pesos a month.

The tourist trade in Cuba is relatively new, and most of the money made from it has been funneled back into expanding this industry, I will admit that this is a questionable policy. However, do not get the impression that tourism will solve all of Cubas financial problems, potential thousands of tourists avoid Cuba due to the U&#036; travel ban, and the Western propaganda of Cuba also acts to dissuade some from visiting. None of that 22 pesos a month has to go towards health insurance, pension funds or education bills.


What would be cheap to the tourist is not so cheap for the cuban, especially if they don&#39;t work in the tourist trade and even then tips aren&#39;t always that much.

lol, tips are not a responsability for the government. It is a sad fact that to attract more tourists, prices must be reasonable. Importing certain goods, notably pharmacutical goods and electronics is a costly affair, and that reflects on the price Cubans are forced to pay. This high pricing has not always been the case.


As for civil rights in Cuba......you have none.......try and speak out against the government and see where it gets you

This is always the area which the Western propaganda machine attacks hardest. The appears to be some illusion that anyone who so much as criticises the government is rounded up and locked away for years. This is not the case, Cuba is no Stalinist state. Execution is becoming a rare occurance, torture is not used in accordance with international law, and all accused are tried and can have legal representation. The United States media makes it very difficult for people to voice their support for Cuba, and the Cuban media does the same towards the US. People in Cuba do criticise their government, however just now it is frowned upon as helping the US cause. Academics have argued that if the US were to resume normal relations with Cuba, then civil rights would relax in Cuba.


He needs to take care of his own people before he worries about other countries......considering the poverty in Cuba wouldn&#39;t that make more sense??

Should Bush not worry about his own people before spending billions on Iraq? Should Blair not spend the billions he wasted bombing Iraq on the NHS? Cooperation between nations, and international aid is a perfectly normal activity, and should be applauded rather than criticised. It is a great shame that developing nations like Cuba have to take responsability for their neigbours because selfish capitalist nations like the U&#036; are only willing to invest in nations they can gain profit from&#33;


Everything there is for the tourist......not for the cuban so I don&#39;t understand how one can admire a leader that walks all over his own people like this.

Yes, a fantastic nationalised Health service and education system which would be a great burden off the governments shoulders if privatised is merely in place for tourists, as well as social security and continuing falling unemployment. The hotels and resorts are there for the tourists, of course they are, and just like you can walk through London and see tours of this that and the next you can see the same in Havana.

Fidel has been demonized by the U&#036; because of his refusal to follow the examples of most other nations and keep in line with U&#036; interests. Before the revolution Cuba was seen by the US as just an extension of their territory, one US politician once said that it was "inevitable" that Cuba would become US territory. Castro nationalised the major US companies in Cuba, and then had the nerve in US eyes to take a socialist path and look to the USSR for assistance (despite the fact that the US shunned Cuba, I meen who else was Fidel to turn to for trade and protection from US aggression?)

The former presidential palace, occupied b Batista with US support, is now literally a museum. Instead of fine suits, Fidels preferres drab military uniform. Instead of travelling in limos, fidel goes in an army jeep. Instead of speaking from a palace office, he goes into the streets and speaks to his people.

Fidel does not walk over his people, he walks amoungst his people.................

Geng
Don&#39;t give me your bullshit about an american attitude.....I&#39;m not an american and I don&#39;t have there attitude. I&#39;m speaking from experience.....are you??? My husband moved here from Cuba (after quite a hassle to get out legally) and he gets angry when he reads the shit that some of you write. As he would put it.....you&#39;ve never lived under communist rule so how the hell would you know what it&#39;s like. You have no freedom of speech.....just ask the prisoners of conscience that are in prison.......they&#39;ll tell you a whole different story. If you were living there you wouldn&#39;t be able to be using a computer like you do.......it&#39;s controlled......private citizens aren&#39;t allowed to have one even though a small percentage of the population manages to get access to the internet. A new law passes on Jan 10 2004 restricts internet access to certain officially recognized businesses and government offices with special telephone accounts and is payable in american dollars which means that the average cuban isn&#39;t allowed access......so there is no freedom of expression and information. As for the media it is totally controlled by the government and only tells you what they want you to hear......but you should know that. No one ever speaks out publicly against the government......otherwise they are arrested. As for human rights, I can&#39;t even begin to tell you of the experience my husband and I have had.......my husband couldn&#39;t even pick me up at the airport until after we were married and we had to prove we were married. When I was 8 months pregnant we were detained for hours in 35C heat just because his cousin and his cousins girlfriend were with my husband and mother in law when they picked me up at the airport. We had no idea his cousin couldn&#39;t pick us up after all he&#39;s family. When we would travel to other provinces we had to register with immigration.......my passport number, his identity card number and our marriage certificate. And these are smaller abuses of power.

I&#39;ve never said anything against their healthcare system or education system......a lot of countries could learn from them. To bad the supplies and medicines are in such short supply.

And yes Fidel does wear suits as well as military uniforms.......I doubt he would ride in a limosine there&#39;s a shortage of gas there. He only walks amongst his people in front of the media but walks on them when there is no media around. Why don&#39;t you go and live amongst the cubans if you want to see what life there is really like instead of just relying on books.

Castro is and always has been a communist dictator and will be until the day he dies.

[Fidel Castro]

Whoop&#33; A Response at last. Why didn&#39;t you say before that your husband was Cuba and that you have spent much time there. Do not wish to offend you in any way, but there are people who come on here I think and claim to be or know Cubans to try and back up their arguments.

Also, I am pleased to say that I am indeed visiting Cuba this summer, and no, I am not going through some tour company to a resort. In fact I&#39;m going with a solidarity movement and will be living and working an a state-farm, and visiting schools, hospitals and Cuban families. So indeed I will be asking many questions, both of officials, and quietly with ordinary Cubans.

Would you also accept, that with all the exile attempts to infultrate the Cuban population, cause civil unrest and terrorists actions, that it is understandable that the government take concern over security, possibly to the point of paranoia?

Just out of interest are you living in Miami? Also, how did you manage to leave Cuba when there are so many cappies here preaching about how it is impossible to leave the island?

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 01:12 AM
Whoop&#33; A Response at last. Why didn&#39;t you say before that your husband was Cuba and that you have spent much time there. Do not wish to offend you in any way, but there are people who come on here I think and claim to be or know Cubans to try and back up their arguments.

Also, I am pleased to say that I am indeed visiting Cuba this summer, and no, I am not going through some tour company to a resort. In fact I&#39;m going with a solidarity movement and will be living and working an a state-farm, and visiting schools, hospitals and Cuban families. So indeed I will be asking many questions, both of officials, and quietly with ordinary Cubans.

Would you also accept, that with all the exile attempts to infultrate the Cuban population, cause civil unrest and terrorists actions, that it is understandable that the government take concern over security, possibly to the point of paranoia?

Just out of interest are you living in Miami? Also, how did you manage to leave Cuba when there are so many cappies here preaching about how it is impossible to leave the island?
No offense taken......I would have said something earlier but at the time I didn&#39;t think I needed to. I hope you enjoy your trip to Cuba but be careful when you ask questions because officials will get suspicious. The ordinary cubans will give you more info than officials. I&#39;m glad to see that you&#39;re not staying at a resort and that you&#39;ll be living amongst the people.

Did you ever stop to think that the civil unrest is caused by the cubans lack of civil and human rights?? What we take for granted the cubans only wish they had......freedom. I&#39;m not saying everything there is bad but lets face it their track record on human rights sucks......Amnesty International has been watching them for a long time.

And no I don&#39;t live in Miami.....you couldn&#39;t pay me enough money to live in the U.S.......both my husband and I hate the U.S. and would never live there.

I can leave Cuba anytime as I&#39;m not a citizen of that country but it took a little over a year to get my husband out. It wasn&#39;t easy and Cuba was the ones that made it difficult but it can be done. That&#39;s the only way he can go back to visit family is because he left legally. If a cuban leaves illegally (eg raft, boat) they&#39;ll never be allowed back in as long as Castro is alive.......and god only knows what would happen to the persons family still in Cuba.

[Fidel Castro]

I&#39;m glad to see a critic of the Cuban Government willing to admit that there is good in Cuba. Human Rights issues have always been a sore point in any discussion about Cuba, although I read recently that Amnesty International has reported imporovements (such as the ban on firing squads recently, more tolerance of religion etc). My personal view is that US aggression is a large contributing fact to the government&#39;s tough stance.

Going to Cuba will be the perfect oppertunity to see it for myself, and weigh up the pros and cons of life in Cuba.

My general feeling is that Cuba is an island in constant change, even though a walk through Havana might suggest otherwise. If you observe you can find that as Cuba is opening up to the outside world, (partly through tourism) then it is slowly relaxing the laws.

I will of course approach the subject of politics whilst I&#39;m in Cuba, with tact and respect.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2004, 04:06 PM
I&#39;m glad to see a critic of the Cuban Government willing to admit that there is good in Cuba. Human Rights issues have always been a sore point in any discussion about Cuba, although I read recently that Amnesty International has reported imporovements (such as the ban on firing squads recently, more tolerance of religion etc). My personal view is that US aggression is a large contributing fact to the government&#39;s tough stance.

Going to Cuba will be the perfect oppertunity to see it for myself, and weigh up the pros and cons of life in Cuba.

My general feeling is that Cuba is an island in constant change, even though a walk through Havana might suggest otherwise. If you observe you can find that as Cuba is opening up to the outside world, (partly through tourism) then it is slowly relaxing the laws.

I will of course approach the subject of politics whilst I&#39;m in Cuba, with tact and respect.
I&#39;ve never said that there wasn&#39;t anything good in Cuba. The human rights issue will always be a sore spot in any discussion about Cuba because of the violations going on there. First of all, I don&#39;t know what report you read but Cuba has not banned execution by firing squad as shown by the execution by firing squad of three men last April within a week of the start of their trial. In the year 2000 there had been a de facto moratorium on the death penalty which ended last year with the execution of these three men. As a matter of fact, under Cuban law the death penalty is an option for a broad number of crimes. Cuba may not use the death penalty much but it is still an option for a broad range of crimes.......I saw nothing in Amnesty Internationals writings that states it has been banned.

Human rights monitoring is not recognized as a legitimate activity but rather is stigmatized as a betrayal of Cuban soverignty with local human rights groups facing systematic harassment. International human rights groups are not allowed to send fact finding missions to Cuba.

Cuba is the only country in the Western Hemisphere to deny the International Committee of the Red Cross access to its&#39; prisons.

Yes I agree that the U.S. embargo is part of the problem because the only ones that suffer because of it is the people but Fidel is the other part of the problem......it&#39;s not the U.S. that is denying the Cuban people their human rights but it is Fidel and his oppressive government.

Do you remember the arrests in March 2003 of the political dissidents, independant journalists, human rights advocates and labour rights activists??? It was the worst crackdown in more than ten years. Homes across the country were searched (probably without a warrant) and fax machines, computers, typewriters and personal papers were seized. The summary trials of these 75 persons lasted from April 3-7 and were prosecuted under a draconian legal process that bans actions deemed to undermine the socialist system or what that government thinks supports the U.S. economic embargo. All 75 people were convicted and received sentences of up to 28 years with an average of over 19 years. No defendants were acquited. These people were sentenced to a cumulative total of 1454 years in prison. So are you going to tell me they got a fair trial???? Not likely &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

The legal and institutional structure is at the root of rights violations. The freedom of expression, association, assembly, movement and the press is strictly limited under Cuban law criminalizing so called enemy propaganda, the spreading of unauthorized news and insult to patriotic symbols curbing the freedom of speech under the guise of protecting state security (likely story). Imprisonment (the prisons are horrible) and ordered surveillance of individuals who have committed no crimes is common, for the Cuban government has relied on laws penalizing supposedly dangerous persons and allowing for official warning. The government controlled courts have undermined the right to a fair trial by restricting the right to defense and frequenly have failed to observe the few due process rights available to defendants under domestic low. Remember there is no such thing as a fair trial in Cuba.......it&#39;s a communist state not a democratic state......so don&#39;t blame the U.S. for these restrictions, they didn&#39;t put them there......Fidel did.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

I have toured round Cuba, and i think it is doing brilliantly when you take into account the sanctionsit has gone through as well as the fall of the Union. If i had to pick one bad thing it would be that locals arent allowed in hotels/any where near resorts, they have a guard on the door stopping them.
All in all i would say Fidel is doing a wonderful job.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 8 2004, 04:21 PM
I have toured round Cuba, and i think it is doing brilliantly when you take into account the sanctionsit has gone through as well as the fall of the Union. If i had to pick one bad thing it would be that locals arent allowed in hotels/any where near resorts, they have a guard on the door stopping them.
All in all i would say Fidel is doing a wonderful job.
The only thing the american sanctions are responsible for is the poverty there. The american sanctions have nothing to do with the human rights violations going on in that country........that&#39;s Castro and his government. Castro has done some good things such as healthcare and education but that doesn&#39;t excuse his human rights violations.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 01:15 PM
The american sanctions have nothing to do with the human rights violations going on in that country........
THE SANCTIONS ARE A FUCKING VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS&#33; SO ARE THE HIDEOUS AND UNLAWFUL IMPRISONMENTS AT GUANTANAMO&#33; :angry:

EDIT; excuse me but I&#39;m really fucking riled by your ignorance, I quit smoking yesterday...

[SittingBull47]

Man, Che would have been way more authoritarian than Fidel. Think of it like a family. Fidel&#39;s the relatively easy-going mother and Fidel&#39;s the Strict father, but in this case they&#39;re both far left wing. Not a great analogy, but that&#39;s what i look upon it as.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur Rock+Mar 9 2004, 02:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arthur Rock @ Mar 9 2004, 02:00 PM)
[email protected] 9 2004, 01:15 PM
The american sanctions have nothing to do with the human rights violations going on in that country........
THE SANCTIONS ARE A FUCKING VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS&#33; SO ARE THE HIDEOUS AND UNLAWFUL IMPRISONMENTS AT GUANTANAMO&#33; :angry:

EDIT; excuse me but I&#39;m really fucking riled by your ignorance, I quit smoking yesterday... [/b]
No one said that the sanctions weren&#39;t a violation of human rights.....but that has nothing to do with what Castro does to his own people.

As for the unlawful imprisonments at Guantanamo Bay......there are no cubans there......they&#39;re Al Quaeda terrorists. What do you suggest we should do with them??? Do you want them in your country???

If you&#39;re like this after one day without smoking, I&#39;d hate to see you after a week. Go get Zyban......at least you&#39;ll be a much happier nonsmoker.

[Comrade Zeke]

I usta think all these Communist countires were cool, like it was a toal paradise and everyone lived humbly...you know like oh you go to the store you get gorciers you go home everyone smiles, you laugh, you play you go out in the streets and not have to worry about crime every can help everyone else...doesn&#39;t that sound good???

CONS of FIDEL CASTRO"S CUBA
Well here is the reality in Fidel&#39;s Cuba....no civil rights, no freedom of speech, no writers no artists no nothing. Everyone frowns no was is happy you go home and you get dinner started you only have two chanels on the T.V you get up have to put on your school uniform then you go to school and guess what your brainwashed into thinking Cuba is the greatest county on Earth and Fidel Castro is god.CRAPY goods, no good food

PROS OF LIVING IN CUBA
Free Medical,great education (althougth not the best just Castroism and the Revolution) Free food, everyone trys to help everyone out. People don&#39;t have to worry about getting raped,murdered or any of the sort. Fidel Castro is a carasmatic and inspiring leader loves his people, and wants to keep it free from forigen Imperalism, is the longest living still leader. Has his philosophies starit.

Those are the Pro&#39;s and Con&#39;s of Cuba I have learned not to live by all the books I have read.
Zeke.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 06:00 PM
No one said that the sanctions weren&#39;t a violation of human rights.....but that has nothing to do with what Castro does to his own people.

As for the unlawful imprisonments at Guantanamo Bay......there are no cubans there......they&#39;re Al Quaeda terrorists. What do you suggest we should do with them??? Do you want them in your country???


Dear oh dear, of course it has everything to do with Fidel&#39;s policies, the Revolution has never been allowed to progress naturally and certain authoritarian charachterstics have had to remain, I disagree that Fidel routinely rounds up innocents because it is not true, those who do face penalties are more often than not counterevolutionaries in the pay of the U&#036; interests section or some group of bitter exiles or even goverment agencies.. Effectively Cuba is at war with the U&#036; and as such dissidants should expect severe treatment..

In refererence to Guantanamo, firstly no court of law has ruled that these people have commited any crime at all, and secondly, yes&#33; I want the British citizans returned home to face legal and just charges if any...

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur Rock+Mar 10 2004, 08:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arthur Rock @ Mar 10 2004, 08:46 AM)
[email protected] 9 2004, 06:00 PM
No one said that the sanctions weren&#39;t a violation of human rights.....but that has nothing to do with what Castro does to his own people.

As for the unlawful imprisonments at Guantanamo Bay......there are no cubans there......they&#39;re Al Quaeda terrorists. What do you suggest we should do with them??? Do you want them in your country???


Dear oh dear, of course it has everything to do with Fidel&#39;s policies, the Revolution has never been allowed to progress naturally and certain authoritarian charachterstics have had to remain, I disagree that Fidel routinely rounds up innocents because it is not true, those who do face penalties are more often than not counterevolutionaries in the pay of the U&#036; interests section or some group of bitter exiles or even goverment agencies.. Effectively Cuba is at war with the U&#036; and as such dissidants should expect severe treatment..

In refererence to Guantanamo, firstly no court of law has ruled that these people have commited any crime at all, and secondly, yes&#33; I want the British citizans returned home to face legal and just charges if any... [/b]
The U.S. sanctions give Castro an excuse for its&#39; repressive policies since some prisoners of conscience are held without charge for more than a year. These dissidents were arrested for having peacefully exercised their rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly.....those basic rights that we take for granted. The imprisonment of prisoners of conscience is imprisonment of innocent people.....they dared to peacefully exercise basic fundamental rights. As for Guantanamo, I do agree that no one should be held without charge or trial........so try these prisoners and if they&#39;re innocent release them and if they&#39;re guilty imprison them.

[Danton]

Tell me Sparky44, are you an exile? You seem very emotionally attached to this subject.. And you are putting things in a personal perspective.. Are you familiar with dssidents on the island?

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 03:44 PM
Tell me Sparky44, are you an exile? You seem very emotionally attached to this subject.. And you are putting things in a personal perspective.. Are you familiar with dssidents on the island?
No I&#39;m not an exile, I&#39;m married to a cuban and have seen firsthand violations of human rights. And yes I&#39;m familiar with the dissidents on the island and firmly believe that they have been imprisoned unjustly for peacefully exercising the basic human rights to freedom of expression, association assembly and movement. When the government takes those away what do you have left????

[Danton]

double bubble

[Danton]

Are you European? did you go to Cuba expressly to find a young man? Sorry, I&#39;m teasing.. So you are here to put us all to rights, and your husband? Are you speaking for him too, did you rescue the poor wretch from the terrible place? I bet he misses home..

Cuba&#39;s sovereignty is more important than shitty little movements like yours, peaceful or otherwise..

[sparky44]

One....no I&#39;m not european and two....no I didn&#39;t go to expressly meet a young man. We happened to meet and clicked right away. You should be sorry for implying that.....we have no control over who we fall in love with.

[Danton]

And a Gusano can fall in love with anything, as long as it&#39;s foreign..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 04:15 PM
And a Gusano can fall in love with anything, as long as it&#39;s foreign..
OOOOOO.....hitting below the belt now are we??? Who said he fell in love just because I&#39;m a foreigner??? Did you ever stop to think that I happen to be a very nice person??? Of course not....ignorant people don&#39;t think.

[Danton]

Ok, ok that was a little naughty, I apologize.. Look I gotta go now we&#39;ll pick this up tommorrow if you want?

edit; I&#39;m not ignorant..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 04:26 PM
Ok, ok that was a little naughty, I apologize.. Look I gotta go now we&#39;ll pick this up tommorrow if you want?

edit; I&#39;m not ignorant..
Ok sounds good to me.....apology accepted.....talk to you tomorrow.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur [email protected] 10 2004, 04:04 PM
So you are here to put us all to rights, and your husband? Are you speaking for him too, did you rescue the poor wretch from the terrible place? I bet he misses home..

Cuba&#39;s sovereignty is more important than shitty little movements like yours, peaceful or otherwise..
Actually my husband chose to come here......he didn&#39;t have to.....I didn&#39;t force him as he could have stayed in Cuba....it was his choice. He didn&#39;t like being so far away from his wife, especially with a baby on the way.....whether you believe it or not some men actually love their wives. The only thing he misses about home is his family......very nice people to. And no, I don&#39;t speak for my husband, actually he wonders why I would waste my time at this site as he&#39;s read many of the posts when I&#39;ve been at this site and wondered where some of the people got their ideas. If he has something to say he tells me and I post it. Actually he&#39;s a little ticked about some of your insinuations.....but I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll have something to say tomorrow.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 05:54 PM
Actually my husband chose to come here......he didn&#39;t have to.....
Obviously.. Lured no doubt by all your fabulous wealth and luxury products.. And I bet he&#39;s really enjoying those precious freedoms you bleat on about, where are you Miami? Has he been - peacefully exercising the basic human rights to freedom of expression, association assembly and movement.

And for Cuba, what do you want? A return to the whorehouse of the fifties, you want it to be America&#39;s little ***** again right? Puerto Rico style, you want Cuba to surrender herself to Yanqui imperialism.. It&#39;s a complex issue and the bigger picture is sometimes obscured but in my eyes and I maintain, most Cubans eyes.. those insignificant freedoms (which really add up to dry shit in any capitalist nation) are worth sacrificing for the greater good - equality.. If the yanqui&#39;s just relented their oppression for once I think we&#39;d see improved freedoms for every Cuban..

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Arthur Rock+Mar 11 2004, 11:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Arthur Rock @ Mar 11 2004, 11:21 AM)
[email protected] 10 2004, 05:54 PM
Actually my husband chose to come here......he didn&#39;t have to.....
Obviously.. Lured no doubt by all your fabulous wealth and luxury products.. And I bet he&#39;s really enjoying those precious freedoms you bleat on about, where are you Miami? Has he been - peacefully exercising the basic human rights to freedom of expression, association assembly and movement.

And for Cuba, what do you want? A return to the whorehouse of the fifties, you want it to be America&#39;s little ***** again right? Puerto Rico style, you want Cuba to surrender herself to Yanqui imperialism.. It&#39;s a complex issue and the bigger picture is sometimes obscured but in my eyes and I maintain, most Cubans eyes.. those insignificant freedoms (which really add up to dry shit in any capitalist nation) are worth sacrificing for the greater good - equality.. If the yanqui&#39;s just relented their oppression for once I think we&#39;d see improved freedoms for every Cuban.. [/b]
Just to bring you down a notch or two.....we don&#39;t live in Miami, we don&#39;t live in the U.S.......couldn&#39;t pay me enough to live there. As a matter of fact, we live quite simply and not in luxury. Tell me what luxury products are you talking about??? He has a decent job where he doesn&#39;t have to rely on tips to earn enough to eat and buy the things he needs. And yes he gets to exercise his rights to freedom of expression, association, assembly and movement......those same rights that you and I exercise everyday.......and we don&#39;t have to prove to officials when ever we want to vacation anywhere in this country that we&#39;re married like we do in Cuba.

No one said that Cuba should return to the way it was in the fifties but the country does need to open up. It is a complex issue but I will never believe that these freedoms are insignificant nor are they worth sacrificing. Equality is a right as well......and everyone is entitled to it.

If both the americans and Castro would relent their oppression I believe that we would see improved freedoms for all Cubans.

[Chewillneverdie]

In Michigan theres a handy little Cuban restaurant, kickass food, I was wearing my Che shirt inside, since it was run by Cuban refugees I was wondering what they would happen to say to me. Turns out these people spoke fondly of him, said Fidel was a very smart man, but the island was in poverty. bladeeblabla stuff id heard millions of times. I was very suprised for the warm welcome i got. Fidel has been great, but isnt it time to open up elections?