Aristide has Fled Haiti

[Fidel Castro]

News has just come in that Aristide has fled Haiti, don;t know where to. Anarchy has engulfed the nation and the U$ has sent marines to restore order.

Whats next for Haiti, and do you support the U$ in sending troops there?

[LuZhiming]

Amnesty International has already reported the terrorists rounding up suspected Aristide sympathizers. I am almost sure terror is going to rule Haiti... Again.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Er, excuse me, anarchy? I don't think so.

Try 'chaos' it would be more appropiate.

And the U$ should stay out, as it always should.

[RedAnarchist]

Gengis, its a common mistake that chaos and lawlessness mean anarchy.

Anarchy is neither of these things. It is a political idealogy that is againt all forms of government.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 09:14 AM
Gengis, its a common mistake that chaos and lawlessness mean anarchy.

Anarchy is neither of these things. It is a political idealogy that is againt all forms of government.
:rolleyes: Let's not go overboard. He obviously meant the literal definition of the word anarchy. When someone says a social Revolution needs to be carried out, they don't mean Socialism needs to be carried out.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Democracy Now!, among others, is reporting that Aristide is claiming he was kidnapped, and that this is another coup.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Link (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/01/1521216)

Here is an article from Democracy Now!... Among the sources confirming Aristide's kidnapping story is Rep. Maxine Waters (Dem), of the U.S. House of Representatives...

[Fidel Castro]

Well, technically there is currently no rule of law or government. Is that not Anarchy? (Not an expert on the subject of Anarchism obviously)

Call it chaos then if you will.

I was watching a news interview of an ex-army major, or colonel or something and he said this:

"This is not a United Nations problem, it is a US problem!"

To me this is totally wrong, it should not be the duty of the United States to tell the United Nations what it's concerns should be. The United Nations must be given a central role in Haiti, and it must be ensured that the US is given no influence over the Haiti political process and is there for peacekeeping purposes only.

[Zombie]

Apparently he fled to somewhere in Africa, I overheard a couple of people talking about it today at the coffeeshop, although this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1159318,00.html) from The Guardian speculates many places he could be heading to such as Morocco, France or Brazil ...

How can anybody, in their sane and rationnal minds and especially here at che-lives, support any US troop deployment in any part of the world beats me... I sure don't.

.Z.

[Stapler]

I haven't made up my mind about this. I don't know what Aristride's ideology was, although I think he was a populist, and I have no idea what the various rebles stand for. Are they marxist? are they capitalist? they seem pro-american, or that's how the BBC puts it. Who are these rebels? who is Aristride? I can't find the answers to these questions in the media. maybe I can find them here.

[Retro]

Well i do know that Aristide has fled the country, supposedly with US backing....Not sure where he fled to, Africa would be the safe bet...

Guy Phillipe is the rebel leader. Theya re saying they want to put him in power, but people fear it will be a military dictatorship...

I hope that the US doesn't get involved again, but then again they can't keep their noses out of anything...

[praxis1966]

I don't honestly know what to make of this either. I do know that Aristide's security was not provided by the U$ itself, however. That assertion by Democracy Now is a little misleading. It was provided by a private firm out of San Francisco. I do not doubt, however, that the U$ government tampered with its efficacy, or that he was kidnapped by the American government. It wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened; for some reason the name Allende comes to mind.

[pandora]

Aristide obviously had the helping hand of soldiers in fatigues helping him out of the country.
Obviously the IMF is using him as an excuse of the starvation they forced on Haiti, of which he became an instrament
But to starve many people all democracy must be wiped clean, and so silently under dictatorship,
Fuck get the Americans out and let them work it out themselves,
Here comes France to give a "helping hand"
In the newspaper today they listed nothing between 1492 and 1807 when the Haitian people fought Napolean and won!
What happened between then?
The French murdered nearly every single native person on the island with starved work camps of brutal slavery,
The only mark of the tribe which once inhabited the island and now is what blood lies in the Africans who now live there
Since 1807 basically the G7 has made Haiti pay for its independence in blood
Why do we fear them
Because in their heart is the love of freedom
Yes I too fear they will suffer again under a brutal dictator
But for now, just for today,
Before the troops arrive
Look at the joy they have as they dance in the streets!
Oh that it could always be like this for Haiti

[Saint-Just]

Aristide is said to be in the Central African Republic. And his supporters claim the Americans kidknapped him, he has had contact with the Americans.

[seen_che]

And the U$ should stay out, as it always should
HELL YE

By the way he is @[email protected] arouond Africa
I think that the second place he went 2 was south africa
WELL anyway he is pritty safe

[SittingBull47]

yep, Aristide's out. Yesterday in History i asked my teacher if she thought the US would try to come in and create an "agenda" for the country...she asks me (cynically) what I meant. WtF did she think i meant. Anyway, i think the rebels are right-wingers. can anybody specify on that?

[bunk]

yeh im pretty sure there baisically right-wingers.
BTW the only thing i heard was that Aristide was in the Dominican rep. perhaps im out of date

[Rasta Sapian]

Good ridence, Aristide has fled! The people of haiti have already risin up against Aristide, he was the corrupt problem! Guy will be the new leader, with his rebels, its hard to see if this will be reign of terror, or a well organized new military dictatorship, to liberatre the people? Regardless, I am glad that Aristide is gone!

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 2 2004, 09:20 PM
Good ridence, Aristide has fled! The people of haiti have already risin up against Aristide, he was the corrupt problem! Guy will be the new leader, with his rebels, its hard to see if this will be reign of terror, or a well organized new military dictatorship, to liberatre the people? Regardless, I am glad that Aristide is gone!
:angry: That murderer Philippe has said that he admires Augusto Pinochet. He was a CIA paid leader of the death squads that murdered Haitians after Aristide was overthrown. The people aren't rising up against Aristide. The people of Haiti don't even have the sort of weapons the killers controlling Haiti now have. These murderous people are already detaining Haitians.


I haven't made up my mind about this. I don't know what Aristride's ideology was, although I think he was a populist, and I have no idea what the various rebles stand for. Are they marxist? are they capitalist? they seem pro-american, or that's how the BBC puts it. Who are these rebels? who is Aristride? I can't find the answers to these questions in the media. maybe I can find them here.

These are the thugs and killers that launched a wave of terror on Haiti from 1991-1994. They're members from FRAPH, the terrorist group formed and supported by the DIA and CIA.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 12:45 AM
Well, technically there is currently no rule of law or government. Is that not Anarchy? (Not an expert on the subject of Anarchism obviously)
Technically, there is no King. Is it not democracy? Anarchy literally means "no rulers," not choas. The association of anarchy with choas is just slander created by opponets of anarchism. Monarchists used to say the same thing about democracy & republics. Haiti isn't anarchy, they still have bosses, sweatshops and other rulers. It is just another American coup. For an introduction to anarchism, go to my homepage and read "Basic Principles of Anarchism" in the socio-politics section.

Also, technically there is a government. IIRC, the head of the supreme court took over after Aristide was kidnapped. And the rebels have established an unofficial government in the territory they control (most of the country).

[Stapler]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 2 2004, 09:20 PM
Good ridence, Aristide has fled! The people of haiti have already risin up against Aristide, he was the corrupt problem! Guy will be the new leader, with his rebels, its hard to see if this will be reign of terror, or a well organized new military dictatorship, to liberatre the people? Regardless, I am glad that Aristide is gone!
Is Aristide the corrupt dictator? I've seen videos of people in ghettos saying things like 'We were hungry Aristide gave us food. We had no houses, Aristide gave us homes.' From what i've read and seen of Aristide - which is very little, so forgive any innacuracies - he's a good guy. He is an idealist, who cares for his people, and was doing as much as he could to improve the lives of the middle class. The rebels, however appear to be right-wing, and pro-bush. Because this is a revoloution in a latin american country, it doesn't mean it is a good thing. If it isn't a revolution led by strong moral convictions and ideals, the country is worse off than it was before the revolution. Remember the Contras?

[Rasta Sapian]

I was just pointing out that the rebellion or cout de taut (overthrough via US and international involvement) ie. He was placed in power by a US helicopter, and taken away by a US helicopter.

I have been told that Aristide was a good man, and he still does have supporters!
He was a priest before he was placed or democtratically elected with help of the international community to lead his troubled carribean nation for the next 5 years!
My point is even though he was eccentially elected, he was still representing a right winged agenda to his people, and was not satisfing his people!

I am not condoning the rebel's butal revolt, to overtrough the president, all I was pointing out is that at least the rebellion is basically over, the killing has stopped for the most part! Things will be reorganized, with or without Guy Phillipe, but hopefully with the help of international aid and releif. ;)

peace yall

[kingbee]

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/mar2004/.../hait-m03.shtml (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/mar2004/hait-m03.shtml)

i hope this links.

i didnt know much bout haiti before, but i know a tad more now. quite a bit on haiti if you search through here.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Rasta [email protected] 4 2004, 01:59 PM
at least the rebellion is basically over, the killing has stopped for the most part!
I wouldn't assume that. From the Newswire part of this board:


On Monday 1 March, 2004, thirty-four (34) members of the Sendika Ouvriye Kodevi Wanament (SOKOWA, Ouanaminthe Codevi Workers' Union) were fired by the management of the Grupo M textile assembly factory in northeast Haiti. (This union
had filed its official registration with the Ministry of Social Affairs and Labour in Port-au-Prince on 10 February, 2004.) The following day, as co-workers prepared to take action in support of the union, members of the so-called
"rebel" forces, who in recent days staged a violent coup d'etat against the Haitian government, arrived at the factory and attacked the workers. After several workers were handcuffed and others beaten up, the workforce was compelled to resume work. The "rebels" said they had been called in by the Grupo M factory management

To send protest e-mail (http://www.labourstart.org/cgi-bin/solidarityforever/show_campaign.cgi?c=24)

For more detailed info (http://www.nosweat.org.uk/article.php?sid=825&mode=thread&order=1)

This speaks to Washington's main reason for wanting to remove Aristide, I think. He carried out a lot of economic policies they asked for, and they could have got him to do more in exchange for keeping him in power.

But he lacked the ability to violently crush working people in Haiti. At least to Washington's satisfaction. We many see more cases like the Grupo M factory, or there may be more that we haven't heard about yet.

Also of interest:

In the capital, US and French troops joined Haitian police for a second day of patrols through the streets to dissuade looters.

They did not interfere with the large pro-Aristide, anti-US march from the presidential palace to the US embassy and then to the port, waving portraits of the ex-president and revolutionary Che Guevara.

The crowd of between 3,000 and 4,000 shouted "Foreigners go come and come back with Aristide" and "Long Live Fidel Castro" as it moved through the streets, according to witnesses.

AFP (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040305/1/3ik0x.html)

[Osman Ghazi]

It's not that he was a bad guy.
Yes, he was brought in on a U$ helicopter but he was kicked out by U$-backed militarists.
The thing is that it is very difficult to get anything done in Haiti due to mass corruption.
He did a lot but just not enough to satisfy everyone. Port-au-Prince is mostly poor and they supported Aristide and that means something. Things will undoubtedly get worse in Haiti.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected] 6 2004, 11:50 PM
Yes, he was brought in on a U$ helicopter but he was kicked out by U$-backed militarists.
Yeah, not to mention some knowledgeable individuals on the subject have claimed he was kidnapped.

[Danton]

I read somewhere that this coup was organized by the French & U$ goverments in a view to both overthrowing Aristide and setting up close quarters support for Castro's enemies, and if within three months time we see uprisings in Cuba - I'll beleive it..