Ideal Communism

[bluerev002]

Ive been thinking much about what an ideal communist country would be like.

I wonder,

Could it be possible to have a communistg country like we have today, with high tech computers and weaponry, machinery that can do any job man can do many times faster, new cars coming out ever other month, new computers that become obsolete in less than a year. Can Communism work in this state were everyone is triying to get where they want to get as quick as possible?

Or

Would it be much better to achive a means of communism were we go back to the old ways were most everyone was a farmer and things didnt go quite as fast? Of course they would be an educagted working class, not just poor pesants.

There would be a flaw in that, being that that is how capitalism got its roots.

Or

some where in between. With technology and good c0mputers, means of transportation, and whatnot. Wed have to go backwads with this.

TAking away faster means of technology would rid ourselves of many enviormental problems. but it could be used to get new medicines and things like that.

What do you think?

A fast world where we have new technology and the mass is always going for whats the newest, fastest, prettiest things?

A world were we go back in time and live the simple life?

Or somewher in between

the last two mean that we have to go back in time, but would that be so bad?

[redstar2000]

Tough question!

In some ways, I think "change" would slow down a lot. There would be no pressure to come up with a "new product" every six months or every year in order to "boost sales". (There wouldn't be anything for sale.)

You know that most of the time, these "new products" represent only tiny improvements or even simply style changes in already existing products.

On the other hand, when a change was introduced, it would be pretty significant...a huge number of existing products and techniques might be rendered obsolete "overnight".

Imagine people had been using MS-DOS for a decade and suddenly Windows XP is introduced.

Big difference!

But that's only one possible scenario and there are certainly others.

For example, with a good deal of "de-centralization" could come an explosion of human creativity...and the pace of change could be even faster under communism than it is now.

One thing that won't happen: people going back to some sort of idyllic pastoral existence. History suggests rather strongly that people won't retreat from a "high-tech" to a "low-tech" society unless they are bombed into it. And even if that happens, they'll do the best they can to restore the "high-tech" society as quickly as they can.

"Low-tech" life really sucks!

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Saint-Just]

I think the question is whether people in this kind of communist society would organise themselves and pool enough human and material resources together to make technological advances, and would they be motivated to do it. I think they would be motivated but I am not sure about the other question on resources and organisations.

Jumping from MS-DOS straight to Windows XP seems impossible, although I know very little about computers.

It is particularly true that "Low-tech" life really sucks!


I have wondered, is that cigarrette for during or after your typing redstar2000?

[Hate Is Art]

I have spent some time wondering on this question, a happy meduim is what I would go for, we don't really need huge ammounts of industrialisation or high tech gizmo's to get by, implementing Communism will be difficult though and some back tracking will need to be done erase the mistakes of capitilism.

[mia wallace]

i think the midle would be the best solution.
it would be kinda impossible to from this kind of life we are living go to the kind of live without any computes and technology generally.
technology should be developed in a communist country but it shouldn't be the primar thing. it should be developed for a certent use, not for simply having it around or sth like that.
and if something wouldn't have any use (e.g. weaponry in comunist society) it shouldn't be produced (in my opinion).

[redstar2000]

I have wondered, is that cigarette for during or after your typing redstar2000?

Before, during, and after. I'm smoking and drinking coffee (with a splash of cheap whiskey) the entire time I am online -- generally three to six hours per "session".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[Retro]

and if something wouldn't have any use (e.g. weaponry in comunist society) it shouldn't be produced (in my opinion


Heh, that's a huge problem. I won't say much, because i think its quite apparent why...but if you ever watched Family Guy, they did an episode on nuclear holocaust(end of the world y2k stuff). The main character started a new community and everything was peaceful. Peter then tried to bring guns into society, and everyone got mad and threw him out. Then the society got attacked by nuclear octopus babies. Weee, what irony.

My question im wondering is if a small militia will be necessary in a communistic society? Not sure.... :unsure:

[bluerev002]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 07:54 PM


and if something wouldn't have any use (e.g. weaponry in comunist society) it shouldn't be produced (in my opinion


Heh, that's a huge problem. I won't say much, because i think its quite apparent why...but if you ever watched Family Guy, they did an episode on nuclear holocaust(end of the world y2k stuff). The main character started a new community and everything was peaceful. Peter then tried to bring guns into society, and everyone got mad and threw him out. Then the society got attacked by nuclear octopus babies. Weee, what irony.

My question im wondering is if a small militia will be necessary in a communistic society? Not sure.... :unsure:
Well, if the whole world was Communist, like an ideal communist society should be, I dont think weaponry would be needed. But there is always the chance of someone making weapons and we would be vunerable to anything.

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 03:10 AM

I have wondered, is that cigarette for during or after your typing redstar2000?

Before, during, and after. I'm smoking and drinking coffee (with a splash of cheap whiskey) the entire time I am online -- generally three to six hours per "session".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas
Forgive me for asking Redstar.....but

Why do you smoke?

For someone of your capacity for logical reasoning it strikes me as odd....

[mia wallace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 04:54 AM


and if something wouldn't have any use (e.g. weaponry in comunist society) it shouldn't be produced (in my opinion


Heh, that's a huge problem. I won't say much, because i think its quite apparent why...but if you ever watched Family Guy, they did an episode on nuclear holocaust(end of the world y2k stuff). The main character started a new community and everything was peaceful. Peter then tried to bring guns into society, and everyone got mad and threw him out. Then the society got attacked by nuclear octopus babies. Weee, what irony.

My question im wondering is if a small militia will be necessary in a communistic society? Not sure.... :unsure:
well.... think you're right. i doubt there will ever be a nuclear octopus baby, but still.... :P
i suppose there should be something as a defencing system, but not like a weapon, more like a shield.
it's sounds a bit as a sf story, but i think ii would be the best :ph34r:

[shyguywannadie]

It seems you are assuming that the materialistic western world we live in is a better life style than that of the stress free life style ascosiated (sp?) with agriculture.

Correct me if im wrong Bluerev.

[redstar2000]

...the stress free life style associated with agriculture

It's not "stress free" -- the stresses are different from those of urban life. Indeed, when people have the opportunity to move to the city, they almost always grab it with both hands.

The biggest stress is probably weather...a late freeze, too little rain, too much rain, an early freeze -- any of these fairly common events can wipe out your labors. Not to mention insects, plant diseases, etc.

Spring plowing is laborious; Fall harvesting is absolutely exhausting.

In my opinion, agricultural life is one of the most stressful and exhausting ways of making a living that there is.

In fact, 20th century Leninism had monumental difficulties with agriculture...and I don't think we will have an easy time of it either.

There must be some way to "urbanize" agriculture...but I don't think anyone knows what it is yet.


Forgive me for asking Redstar.....but

Why do you smoke?

Pleasure. :)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.vze.com)
A site about communist ideas

[shyguywannadie]

Physically hardwork yes but I wouldnt say stressfull, in a mental sence (if you know what I mean?)

[crazy comie]

wodn't communism aim for higher technological growth but mainly in things like madcine where it is neaccecary and slightly less for things like cars.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by crazy [email protected] 22 2004, 04:39 PM
wodn't communism aim for higher technological growth but mainly in things like madcine where it is neaccecary and slightly less for things like cars.
Medicine could advance at a much greater rate in a free society and we have the technology for better transportation. "Cars," are worthless, they should mostly be scrapped for efficient, clean, productive...better in all ways, mass transportation. Anyway, you cannot say transportation is less important in a way because the supplies have to get to you somehow. If the medication (or food for that matter) doesn't reach you, you die. Also the faster transort works, the faster research can be done: > researchers-> supplies-> fasilities-> patients-. Communism would work as fast in all of these areas as people can and chose to work, one area benefiting the other.

[crazy comie]

By slightly less on things like cars i ment not brining out things with only looks that are improved and almost identical technology in all other respects.

[Guest1]

There will definitely be no "moving backwards". None of this mumbo-jumbo about getting rid of some technology. As redstar said, some of it may improve slower than other fields, but it will still progress as usual.

As for computers, I think it would be the opposite, check out the gnu free software projects to understand what I mean. The whole Linux side of the computing world is built on Communist, collective models, and it is moving at an incredible pace. Why? No profit motive, just the motive of improving for everyone. Everyone contributes to a greater whole, and gets no profit out of it.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by crazy [email protected] 25 2004, 05:33 PM
By slightly less on things like cars i ment not brining out things with only looks that are improved and almost identical technology in all other respects.
I think I answered that question too. Still, your post seemed to be about areas of technology growing in proportion to imediate need, though it was indistinct. Anyway, I don't think we would need useless flashy crap if people had jobs worth doing and were allowed to improve their lives.

[crazy comie]

I was just saying that i ment we would improve technology but there would be less of moving out models wich just looked diffrentliy.
Wouldn't it be amaizing pepole like linus torvald and the gnu group got inof moeny to design hardware too.

[God of Imperia]

Did anyone read Utopia by Thomas More? He planned to only keep the occupations who are needed to keep a large amount of people alive, but I didn't get which he wanted to keep. Could anyone tell me this?

[crazy comie]

I don't no what ocupations he wanted to keep but he had some strnge ideas like compulserary lecturesl

[God of Imperia]

I do think we live in to much comfort, but I don't want to give it up, yet ...

[crazy comie]

Originally posted by God of [email protected] 29 2004, 04:13 PM
I do think we live in to much comfort, but I don't want to give it up, yet ...
What do you mean by that.

[God of Imperia]

Well, you ask difficult question, it sounded good when I wrote that ... Hmm, I think we take things like computers, televison, radio and stuff like that for granted, but do we really need all those things? It might make our lifes easyier, but it also complicates it ...