Opposition to police

[Ancom.Texas]

The worst part about protests is that cops are always there, and generally cause trouble. I'm having a hard time convincing people that fighting back against police is a good thing. They are suppressing political opposition, so we need solutions people.

[Jimmie Higgins]

well that's their job isn't it? Suppression, repression, controlling small crowds is what they are trained to do.

Most people I know (and not just leftists) do not trust the police to some degree. This is not universally the case and might have to do a lot with demographics like age and race as well as location.

But even among people who'd happily yell "fuck the police" if they feel safe or sneaky enough to do so are not convinced that anything can be done about it.

So I think the key to building a stronger opposition is in convincing people of a larger strategy and figuring out how to begin to work towards it. Police are powerful even when despised if they are ubiquitous and people feel powerless. We need to find ways to oppose them that do not just oppose police but also build class power and confidence.

If opposition is primarily seen as the actions of some crusading lawyers or bands of street-fighting protestors it reinforces that sense of passivity among most people who oppose policing.


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[Ele'ill]

So I think the key to building a stronger opposition is in convincing people of a larger strategy and figuring out how to begin to work towards it. Police are powerful even when despised if they are ubiquitous and people feel powerless. We need to find ways to oppose them that do not just oppose police but also build class power and confidence.

If opposition is primarily seen as the actions of some crusading lawyers or bands of street-fighting protestors it reinforces that sense of passivity among most people who oppose policing.

I wouldn't have used 'larger strategy' in regards to opposition to the police because I don't think one can exist within the scope of how shifty law and the justice system is but I think having a base project(s) as antagonism against the state that serve to circumvent our air supply while they hold us by the throat day to day can/will offer up the inevitable opportunity towards antagonism against their armed thugs. If people are put off by bands of street fighting protesters but are down with various projects that end up on the state's radar then they're gonna definitely be put off by the raids, jail, prison that are going to follow. Most of the time, the people who don't understand combative scenarios in the street usually wouldn't be down with anarchist/communist projects to begin with i.e. convincing them that everything they know of in law and order is wrong- and if anarchist/communists are watering down their political action or theory to fit into a legally and societally accepted set of procedures, they will at best, at some point in the future, have to make the break from it all, most likely without the particular majority they thought they had. I think it's important to be honest from the start and work with what's present now.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I wouldn't have used 'larger strategy' in regards to opposition to the police because I don't think one can exist...

Why is larger strategy "within the existing legal framework"?

In general, I'm not quite sure what you are arguing here... at least not how it relates to what I or the op said. Could you explain?

[Ele'ill]

Why is larger strategy "within the existing legal framework"?

In general, I'm not quite sure what you are arguing here... at least not how it relates to what I or the op said. Could you explain?

I meant one singular template of a strategy. I don't think a larger strategy in the way I think you're using it necessarily comes first. I was contrasting the goal of convincing everyone by talking to them about a larger strategy, to be built and carried out in some future when the time is right vs convincing those already on the cusp of militancy through action, or disregarding convincing people all together and finding others who share similar projectual ideas. It could be both or close to both of these different approaches but I think the problem with the first is that the full break isn't possible to strategize into the larger strategy. There isn't a comfortable way or way to lead a critical mass of people into the things that are going to be done. I think that often ends up with consumer communism with horribly watered down politics or worse because there is never a break from society and often the intentions from the start are to avoid a break, it's exotic political tourism, hence redirecting it back into conventional channels, struggle, existing legal frame work, and etc... The OP mentioned 'fighting back against the police' and I think that topic on a theory forum about revolution is literal. I can agree that projects which are antagonistic towards the state, shelter, food, medical, work, etc.. could be viewed as a larger strategy of direct communist action but it isn't a larger strategy to specifically fight back against the police.

you've now experienced my waking up before work post, and my end of shift going to bed post, I hope one was clearer than the other. If not, what don't you understand or what do you want more clarification on?