Does Hezbollah classify as left wing?

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

This a their https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_Hezbollah

[RedSonRising]

No. Religious fundamentalism can be anti-colonialist, but it is not left-wing because it has no class analysis and does not meaningfully challenge the class system. On the contrary, it reinforces it with a strict ideology.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

This a their https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_Hezbollah



No. Religious fundamentalism can be anti-colonialist, but it is not left-wing because it has no class analysis and does not meaningfully challenge the class system. On the contrary, it reinforces it with a strict ideology.
But why does the left support them?

[willowtooth]

This a their https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology_of_Hezbollah



But why does the left support them?who specifically?

[Gavrilo93]

Some people on the left support Hezbollah because it fights against Israel. But they are wrong about that, in my opinion. Even though it is certain that the state of Israel has oppressed several people (mainly Palestinians) they are still better than the other side of religious fundamentalists.

Besides, one should be extremely careful when he criticizes Israel. A lot of far-right people hijacks the (justified) rage against Israel, to promote their antisemitic propaganda.

[Ale Brider]

Besides, one should be extremely careful when he criticizes Israel. A lot of far-right people hijacks the (justified) rage against Israel, to promote their antisemitic propaganda.

And this is what many North American/Western European people just don't manage to understand. The critique of the Israeli militarist, and often fascistic tendencies must be exercised in a way that it does not become an echoing of nazi dog-whistle speech about "Israel", which is just a cover up of antisemitic thinking. I understand the the general ML or the anarchist critique of Israel is different in many ways from the sociopathic hateful ramblings of the far-right, but the communist critique of Israel should be always nuanced and should not be reduced to simple-minded slogans and phrasemongering.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Sometimes people forget that you can criticise imperialist actions and colonial oppression without blindly supporting the bourgeois political movements of the oppressed peoples.

However in a very basic way you can call Hezbollah 'left-wing' in the sense that they try (and generally fail) to convey an image of left-wing nationalism. In part it stems from the semi-support of the Soviet Union who tried to undo the US influence in the region and also the support networks of workers in the 'West' which are usually human-rights oriented and generally politically left-wing so Hezbollah might attempt to portray themselves as natural allies of those movements (and in the past the Soviet Union) in order to maintain material and political support. Of course, they in no way represent any revolutionary movement dedicated to the end of capitalism.

[ckaihatsu]

No. Religious fundamentalism can be anti-colonialist,


Anti-colonialism / anti-imperialism *is* left-wing as a matter of *practice* -- Hezbollah cuts against Israel adventurism / imperialism in the region, and so is *effectively* left-wing in terms of geopolitics.





but it is not left-wing because it has no class analysis and does not meaningfully challenge the class system. On the contrary, it reinforces it with a strict ideology.


No argument on this -- it's *not* left-wing in any theoretical sense.





And this is what many North American/Western European people just don't manage to understand. The critique of the Israeli militarist, and often fascistic tendencies must be exercised in a way that it does not become an echoing of nazi dog-whistle speech about "Israel", which is just a cover up of antisemitic thinking. I understand the the general ML or the anarchist critique of Israel is different in many ways from the sociopathic hateful ramblings of the far-right, but the communist critique of Israel should be always nuanced and should not be reduced to simple-minded slogans and phrasemongering.


I'm *stunned* -- you're saying that people would be so ignorant as to confuse or conflate left-wing anti-Zionism with far-right antisemitism -- ?

And as a result of this possibility we on the left have to 'be careful' in our criticisms of Zionist Israel -- ?

You're arguing for revolutionary self-censorship.

A reminder:


http://ifamericaknew.org/

Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed

September 29, 2000 - Present

134 Israeli children (http://ifamericaknew.org/stat/children.html) have been killed by Palestinians and 2,150 Palestinian children (http://ifamericaknew.org/stat/children.html) have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information (http://ifamericaknew.org/stat/children.html#source))

http://ifamericaknew.org/images/childrenkilledindex.png

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Anti-colonialism / anti-imperialism *is* left-wing as a matter of *practice* -- Hezbollah cuts against Israel adventurism / imperialism in the region, and so is *effectively* left-wing in terms of geopolitics.





No argument on this -- it's *not* left-wing in any theoretical sense.





I'm *stunned* -- you're saying that people would be so ignorant as to confuse or conflate left-wing anti-Zionism with far-right antisemitism -- ?

And as a result of this possibility we on the left have to 'be careful' in our criticisms of Zionist Israel -- ?

You're arguing for revolutionary self-censorship.

A reminder:


http://ifamericaknew.org/

Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed

September 29, 2000 - Present

134 Israeli children (http://ifamericaknew.org/stat/children.html) have been killed by Palestinians and 2,150 Palestinian children (http://ifamericaknew.org/stat/children.html) have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information (http://ifamericaknew.org/stat/children.html#source))

http://ifamericaknew.org/images/childrenkilledindex.png
http://www.lebanonrenaissance.org/assets/Uploads/15-The-New-Hezbollah-Manifesto-Nov09.pdf
The link is their new manifesto

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[GiantMonkeyMan]

http://ifamericaknew.org/
Interesting website. Never heard of it before but it looks to be a useful source.

[Ale Brider]

I'm *stunned* -- you're saying that people would be so ignorant as to confuse or conflate left-wing anti-Zionism with far-right antisemitism -- ?
And as a result of this possibility we on the left have to 'be careful' in our criticisms of Zionist Israel -- ?
You're arguing for revolutionary self-censorship.


See, this is what I was talking about when I said some people just don't have the capacity to get it because they lack the very experience to even have the chance to comprehend what I was speaking about. I can't provide you English links on how the far-right in Hungary and other Eastern European countries uses anti-Israel rhetoric to justify their anti-semitism. And I never said that we should not criticize Israel, as they persecute non-white jews as well, orthodox and socially conservative communities persecute women and LGBTQ people, there is no legitimate grounds on which revolutionary leftist politics could "support" Israel or deny the critique of its system. Demanding discipline in critique is not "self-censorship" is it called having principles using the right methods and maintaining the proper theoretical framework. It is our duty to exercise critique in a way that it will be not conflated with far-right dog-whistling. You imply that I think people are "dumb" (your words, not mine), but I speak from actual experience. If a left-wing party is unprincipled and lazy in its critique of Israel and reduces it to phrases, and does so in a heavily anti-semitic environment THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES because we don't live in a political vacuum. To put it simple, being lazy and schematic in this question in Eastern Europe is literal and conscious decision on the behalf of certain left-parties to pander to far-right voters. And this kind of shit leads to occasional querfronts. And this is why I get so agitated in any thread in which the general line is "but it's geopolitics, you have to choose". Because you, Chris, may be well educated, you may be principled in your critique. I doubt you will ever join hand in hands with actual nazis to protest from some common goal, like, in favor of an independent Donbass. But I do have counter-examples, there are people out there who do just that.

[ckaihatsu]

See, this is what I was talking about when I said some people just don't have the capacity to get it because they lack the very experience to even have the chance to comprehend what I was speaking about. I can't provide you English links on how the far-right in Hungary and other Eastern European countries uses anti-Israel rhetoric to justify their anti-semitism. And I never said that we should not criticize Israel, as they persecute non-white jews as well, orthodox and socially conservative communities persecute women and LGBTQ people, there is no legitimate grounds on which revolutionary leftist politics could "support" Israel or deny the critique of its system. Demanding discipline in critique is not "self-censorship" is it called having principles using the right methods and maintaining the proper theoretical framework.




It is our duty to exercise critique in a way that it will be not conflated with far-right dog-whistling. You imply that I think people are "dumb" (your words, not mine)


No, I was actually *asking a question* of you:





[Y]ou're saying that people would be so ignorant as to confuse or conflate left-wing anti-Zionism with far-right antisemitism -- ?


---





, but I speak from actual experience. If a left-wing party is unprincipled and lazy in its critique of Israel and reduces it to phrases, and does so in a heavily anti-semitic environment THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES because we don't live in a political vacuum. To put it simple, being lazy and schematic in this question in Eastern Europe is literal and conscious decision on the behalf of certain left-parties to pander to far-right voters.


Okay, noted.





And this kind of shit leads to occasional querfronts. And this is why I get so agitated in any thread in which the general line is "but it's geopolitics, you have to choose".


I don't *quite* understand your meaning on this -- wouldn't a geopolitical-left stance *be* anti-Zionist by default, as a matter of anti-imperialism -- ?





Because you, Chris, may be well educated, you may be principled in your critique. I doubt you will ever join hand in hands with actual nazis to protest from some common goal, like, in favor of an independent Donbass. But I do have counter-examples, there are people out there who do just that.


I defer to your superior flattery.


= D

[ckaihatsu]

http://www.lebanonrenaissance.org/assets/Uploads/15-The-New-Hezbollah-Manifesto-Nov09.pdf
The link is their new manifesto

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


Thanks -- sounds pretty *secular* throughout.