Discussion: A.C.A.B.

[(A)]

All cops are Bastards!

This point is not the subject of the debate but the starting fact. What then are viable alternatives to the authority of the legal system and the class of police that enforces it.

Saw this resource full of related works on the subject.


How do we ensure public safety w/o police? Check out this list on alternatives to policing



Alternatives to Police (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usprisonculture.com%2F blog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Falternatives-to-police-web.pdf&t=NjMxZjk2ZTIxZWYwZDUzNWM4ZDY2ZGNlZTI4YThkYjdiODgy YjM5Myx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1)(PDF) by Rose City Copwatch (2008)
Alternatives to the Police (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mcgilldaily.com%2FPoli ceIssue%2FRestorative-Justice.html&t=ZjU5YTNlZDc4YzI1ODA3NWFhOTE1YjdhNTQ4NWMyZjFhMTcw YTViMSx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Evan Dent, Molly Korab, and Farid Rener
The Avant-garde of White Supremacy (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ocf.berkeley.edu%2F%7 Emarto%2Favantguard.htm&t=MDkzN2Y0N2U3YzEzZTg5NGY5YWQ2ZDUyZDk5MzY4NzY1OGEy MGQ5ZSx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Steve Martinot and Jared Sexton
Broken Windows is On Hiatus: Community Interventions We Can Enact Now for Real Justice (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autostraddle.com%2Fbro ken-windows-is-on-hiatus-community-interventions-we-can-enact-now-for-real-justice-271625%2F&t=NmFlN2E5MjJjZmU3OGQyMjE5NGI4YWUwZDVlN2M3OGUwMDRh ZjczZix1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Hannah Hodson
Can We Build an Anti-Policing Movement that Isn’t Anti-Police? (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fradfag.wordpress.com%2F201 4%2F12%2F29%2Fcan-we-build-an-anti-policing-movement-that-isnt-anti-police%2F&t=N2Q0MTkyMTY1YmVhOGRkYjY4MTc0YTNkZDk0YzNiMjZmYjY2 MGEyNix1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Radical Faggot
Citizens, Cops, and Power: Recognizing the Limits of Community (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.powells.com%2Fbiblio%2 F0226327302%3Fp_isbn%26PID%3D36604&t=YTQyNDlhNDUyNTUzMmFjOWFlNjRmZTA4NjEyYjVmNTk1NjFl MmUxMix1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Steve Herbert
Feeling for the Edge of your Imagination: finding ways not to call the police (http://imaginealternatives.tumblr.com/)
A New Year’s Resolution: Don’t Call the Police (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Ftruth-out.org%2Fopinion%2Fitem%2F28215-a-new-years-resolution-don-t-call-the-police&t=NzY2NGJmMjUwZjBkMzJkOWI3ZjZkMjMwNWNjMjJjOWEwYWI0 MzVlYix1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Mike Ludwig
Not Calling the Police (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usprisonculture.com%2F blog%2F2012%2F03%2F08%2Fnot-calling-the-police%2F&t=M2VlOTdhM2QwYmUxZTJjZDE3MjYyNDc1MDY3NTZiZDBiMTg0 ZjVkMCx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Prison Culture
Origins of the Police (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fworxintheory.wordpress.co m%2F2014%2F12%2F07%2Forigins-of-the-police%2F&t=YmNhMGQ0YzVjY2NjNDBhMTNhMmNhNzg0OWFjNTc4MjM3NTQx MWU0Nix1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by David Whitehouse
The Other Side of the COIN (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interfacejournal.net%2 Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2FInterface-3-1-Williams.pdf&t=OWEwMTRmYjk4YmJlMmNkNzkwMmU0ZTcxNWMxOTMzNDkzMTRl ODIwOCx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) (PDF) by Kristian Williams.
Policing is a Dirty Job, But Nobody’s Gotta Do It: 6 Ideas for a Cop-Free World (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollingstone.com%2Fpol itics%2Fnews%2Fpolicing-is-a-dirty-job-but-nobodys-gotta-do-it-6-ideas-for-a-cop-free-world-20141216%23ixzz3MAjhe2IM&t=ZmUzZDE5Y2M0OTVkODlmNGQzM2RmYTNmMWM4MDcwZjcxOWIy MDliNSx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Jose Martin
Policing Slaves Since the 1600s (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Ftherebelpress.com%2Farticl es%2Fshow%3Fid%3D2&t=Y2FkZThhMDk1NWNjODc0N2Y2NGZlYmVmM2NkOWRjZmI3Njgz MGRiOSx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Auandaru Nirhan
The Shanti Sena ‘peace center’ and the non-policing of an anarchist temporary autonomous zone: Rainbow Family peacekeeping strategies (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usprisonculture.com%2F blog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2FNiman.pdf&t=OTA0NmJiZDliMWQ3N2MyZmY4ODc5NzUwMGJkMDBkNzIzMDM4 ZmVjYyx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) (PDF) by Michael Niman
Stop Kidding Yourself: The Police Were Created to Control Working Class and Poor People (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Flawcha.org%2Fwordpress%2F2 014%2F12%2F29%2Fstop-kidding-police-created-control-working-class-poor-people%2F&t=OTNkZWQ4ODlkYzAwNThhNmE5M2QxZjMwMWJjODExN2Y2Y2Iz NTkzZCx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Sam Mitrani
We Don’t Just Need Nicer Cops. We Need Fewer Cops (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenation.com%2Farticl e%2F191985%2Fwe-dont-just-need-nicer-cops-we-need-fewer-cops&t=MjM1NjU0N2MyODE4M2M2NjY2NDRmY2E5MTUxMWUwNGNmNjA3 NTQyYSx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Alex S. Vitale
What Does It Mean to Be Anti-Police? (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenation.com%2Farticl e%2F193737%2Fwhat-does-it-mean-be-anti-police&t=ZmUwOGQyY2E3YjM4NDMxZDUzZDNjNThmMTcwZDRlODUwZWU3 NjFiYix1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) by Alex S. Vitale
Where abolition meets action: women organizing against gender violence (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usprisonculture.com%2F blog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F12%2Fvikkilaw.pdf&t=ODQxYjQ3NmUyMDE0ZmMwMWQwYjJmZGRhYzc0OGVkNGMyMzQ2 OWQxMSx1dlJOQkc1eg%3D%3D&b=t%3A9PP1_YZITtU_4xaHgTda3g&p=http%3A%2F%2Fcultural-resistance.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F157456995344%2Fhow-do-we-ensure-public-safety-wo-police-check&m=1) (PDF) by Vikki Law



Disclaimer: I have not yet ready any of them at the time of posting. I am going to start now and leave the topic open for discussion.
What do you believe are viable alternatives to the authority of the police.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Really interesting, i have been thinking of this recently. I am not sure either, some kind of collective action by the commune is necessary but i don't know if you are just making police with a other name then.

[(A)]

I see enforcement of the rules as a matter of equality. Everyone must have the same ability to enforce their rules; The problem with that being so many people; either everyone must obey the dictates of some polity that legislates what is right and wrong (Not Anarchy) Or everyone has the right to enforce their own law over their own polity; that is the politics of the free individual.

So how do you create a legal system where every individual makes their own law? Where one person does not have the ability to dictate judgement over others; where no one has a monopoly on authority.

The logical conclusion I believe is the line of consent. Every person must have the right to autonomy of the individual and the universal law then is simply the law of consent.
No property laws or rule by legislation; simply the law of Anarchy; destroying what destroys you.

What this means for policing is that everyone must police their own activity's; or suffer the consequences of their actions if they attempt to harm or exploit others.
Because without capitalist governments to protect exploitation and violence via nationalist law; everyone will be equal in the reality that is a system with no legal protections for those who harm others.
That is why the working class must be armed and organized; for if we are to establish a new system without class & inequality; everyone must be a part of maintaining order so that no one can form a class of armed enforcers who have a monopoly on violence (government)

All government is in the end is one class using violence against another.

Equality demands autonomy.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I think these are false options and the idea of autonomous individuals is a (usually right-wing) myth. we are pretty much defined by social interrelations--so the question is, how are these arranged.

Laws are unjust not because of some abstract "don't tread on me" bullshit but because they protect the ruling imbalance of power and wealth.

Mostly humans have policed themselves through custom and social pressure. A communist society likely would mostly operate that way but maybe some formal "rules" would exist for specific reasons... like stop at a stoplight because it's in all of our interests to not crash into each-other.


Edit: under a commune situation (or "worker's state") there would likely be the need for formal laws and enforcement at least temporarily and depending on circumstances. Workers would need to enforce their own rule for some amount of time (and probably directed at former official police who will not be on our side). This would be police by another name--but if a totally different composition and purpose and accountable to worker's power rather than capitalist beurocracies who in turn are accountable to local business power. This happened in Russia, Spain and the Paris commune (I think with the existing police in the commune which seems absurd to me).

But if there is no threat from fascists or elements of the old state or whatnot, there would be little need for a militia/police. Most "public safety" policing today is done through custom or ad hoc (people calm down a drunk at a bar) and this under shitty capitalist society where people don't trust eachother.