Socialist Workers Party

[Raul Castro]

Have any of you heard about the socialist workers party? We see castroism as the guide towards world revolution I suggest you check us out, have you heard about us?

our bookstore:
http://www.pathfinderpress.com/

our newspaper:
http://www.themilitant.com/

We are also friends with the communist league of canada, communist league of new zealand, communist league of australia, and communist league of the u.k.

[Bea Arthur]

"We"? You mean the Jack Barnes led cult that sells Trotskyist literature for a profit while disavowing his politics? The rump group that was created through that man's megalomaniacal purging of large swaths of the cadre created back when the US had a growing revolutionary heritage? Yeah, I've heard of you all.

[Raul Castro]

it is not a cult we do not worship him, and we still like trotsky but we are not trotskyists, we think his permanent revolution theory failed, we still respect his ideas though and dislike stalin. We now think that castro is the guide for revolution in the 21rst century

[jdneel]

I am getting quite tired of Comrades from the various tendencies trolling each other instead of finding common ground on which we can work together to rid ourselves of our common enemy - Capitalism. I am not SWP but find I have much more in common with them than I have with the two Capitalist parties - the Democrats and the Republicans.

Sent from my SM-S920L using Tapatalk

[ckaihatsu]

it is not a cult we do not worship him, and we still like trotsky but we are not trotskyists, we think his permanent revolution theory failed, we still respect his ideas though and dislike stalin.


Trotsky's 'Permanent Revolution' "failed" -- ??

It's really more like a materialist *axiom* for any revolutionary socialist activity going-forward:





Trotsky believed that a new workers' state would not be able to hold out against the pressures of a hostile capitalist world unless socialist revolutions quickly took hold in other countries as well. This theory was advanced in opposition to the position held by the Stalinist faction within the Bolshevik Party that "socialism in one country" could be built in the Soviet Union.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution


In other words physical reality only gives us the empirical options of 'sitting tight' (with only one country revolutionized), or else 'expanding outward', to encompass the whole world.

Here's a treatment:


Political Spectrum, Simplified



http://s6.postimg.org/eeeic5c6p/2373845980046342459jv_Mrd_G_fs.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/c9u5b2ajx/full/)


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We now think that castro is the guide for revolution in the 21rst century


Care to elaborate -- ?

[Raul Castro]

We like Trotsky but we are not Trotkyists, and since the soviet union collapsed, cuba is a living example for what humanity should try to achieve today that is our belief

[ckaihatsu]

We like Trotsky but we are not Trotkyists, and since the soviet union collapsed, cuba is a living example for what humanity should try to achieve today that is our belief


Cuba was *inconvenienced* (to put it mildly) by the ceasing of the USSR's patronage when it collapsed.

How much of Cuba's actual history (especially revisionism) do you include in your estimations of the Cuban model -- ?

Is this a socialism-in-one-country kind of thing, or not -- ?

[jdneel]

Is this a socialism-in-one-country kind of thing, or not - ?

Internationalism, hmm. I detect a fellow Trotskyist. Just out of curiosity, what party or organization are you associated with?






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[Raul Castro]

Castro rejected Stalin and recongnized him as a mass murderer, and 15% of the cuban population is self employed, and there is actual workplace democracy in cuba.

Castroism professes that as Castro stated, "there will be a successful revolution in the United States before a successful counter-revolution in cuba."

When working people suffer at the hands of capitalists cuba will be the guide for 20th century ML

[comrada]

The SWP and that paper is reactionary garbage.

[ckaihatsu]

Is this a socialism-in-one-country kind of thing, or not - ?





Internationalism, hmm. I detect a fellow Trotskyist. Just out of curiosity, what party or organization are you associated with?






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Yes and no -- over the years I've developed a more 'hybrid' (by scale) approach, which is here, below. I'll leave it to you to figure out how to categorize my politics, based on what I advocate.

Here's a brief summation, in one line, from a fairly recent thread:





[T]he layout of *work roles* would be the 'bottom' of 'top-down' (though collectivized) social planning, and would be the 'top' of 'bottom-up' processes like individual self-determination.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/196538-Several-Questions?p=2879529#post2879529


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labor credits framework for 'communist supply & demand'



http://s6.postimg.org/jjc7b5nch/150221_labor_credits_framework_for_communist_su.jp g (http://postimg.org/image/p7ii21rot/full/)


communist supply & demand -- Model of Material Factors



http://s6.postimg.org/7liqtmar5/2526684770046342459_Rh_JMHF_fs.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/nwiupxn8t/full/)

http://www.revleft.com/vb/entries/1174-revolutionary-policy-*solution*-(communist-supply-amp-demand)


A post-capitalist political economy using labor credits



To clarify and simplify, the labor credits system is like a cash-only economy that only works for *services* (labor), while the world of material implements, resources, and products is open-access and non-abstractable. (No financial valuations.) Given the world's current capacity for an abundance of productivity for the most essential items, there should be no doubt about producing a ready surplus of anything that's important, to satisfy every single person's basic humane needs.

[I]t would only be fair that those who put in the actual (liberated) labor to produce anything should also be able to get 'first dibs' of anything they produce.

In practice [...] everything would be pre-planned, so the workers would just factor in their own personal requirements as part of the project or production run. (Nothing would be done on a speculative or open-ended basis, the way it's done now, so all recipients and orders would be pre-determined -- it would make for minimal waste.)

We can do better than the market system, obviously, since it is zombie-like and continuously, automatically, calls for endless profit-making -- even past the point of primitive accumulation, through to overproduction and world wars, not to mention its intrinsic exploitation and oppression.

Labor vouchers imply a political economy that *consciously* determines valuations, but there's nothing to guarantee that such oversight -- regardless of its composition -- would properly take material realities into account. Such a system would be open to the systemic problems of groupthink and elitism.

What's called-for is a system that can match liberated-labor organizing ability, over mass-collectivized assets and resources, to the mass demand from below for collective production. If *liberated-labor* is too empowered it would probably lead to materialistic factionalism -- like a bad syndicalism -- and back into separatist claims of private property.

If *mass demand* is too empowered it would probably lead back to a clever system of exploitation, wherein labor would cease to retain control over the implements of mass production.

And, if the *administration* of it all is too specialized and detached we would have the phenomenon of Stalinism, or bureaucratic elitism and party favoritism.

I'll contend that I have developed a model that addresses all of these concerns in an even-handed way, and uses a system of *circulating* labor credits that are *not* exchangeable for material items of any kind. In accordance with communism being synonymous with 'free-access', all material implements, resources, and products would be freely available and *not* quantifiable according to any abstract valuations. The labor credits would represent past labor hours completed, multiplied by the difficulty or hazard of the work role performed. The difficulty/hazard multiplier would be determined by a mass survey of all work roles, compiled into an index.

In this way all concerns for labor, large and small, could be reduced to the ready transfer of labor-hour credits. The fulfillment of work roles would bring labor credits into the liberated-laborer's possession, and would empower them with a labor-organizing and labor-utilizing ability directly proportionate to the labor credits from past work completed.

This method would both *empower* and *limit* the position of liberated labor since a snapshot of labor performed -- more-or-less the same quantity of labor-power available continuously, going forward -- would be certain, known, and *finite*, and not subject to any kinds of abstraction- (financial-) based extrapolations or stretching. Since all resources would be in the public domain no one would be at a loss for the basics of life, or at least for free access to providing for the basics of life for themselves. And, no political power or status, other than that represented by possession of actual labor credits, could be enjoyed by liberated labor. It would be free to represent itself on an individual basis or could associate and organize on its own political terms, within the confines of its empowerment by the sum of pooled labor credits in possession.

Mass demand, then as now, would be a matter of public discourse, but in a societal context of open access to all means of mass communication for all, with collectivized implements of mass production at its disposal. It would have no special claim over any liberated labor and would have no means by which to coerce it.

The administration of all of this would be dependent on the conscious political mass struggle, on a continuous, ongoing basis, to keep it running smoothly and accountably.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/blog.php?bt=14673

[Raul Castro]

how?

[ckaihatsu]

how?


If you're asking me, please see the content I included in that post in [spoiler] tags.

You may want to ask a more-specific question as a follow-up.

[Raul Castro]

If you're asking me, please see the content I included in that post in [spoiler] tags.

You may want to ask a more-specific question as a follow-up.

I was talking to the person

[ckaihatsu]

I was talking to the person


*The* person -- ??

As obviously distinct somehow from the rest of us, I guess....


= )