The women's march is pointless in America, but vital to the Arab & Islamic world.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I am a liberal ex-Muslim agnostic atheist, from Lebanon.
I know that women in my region lack their basic rights, like a women cannot travel abroad without the approval of her husband or father.
Last week the parliament abolished the law that criminalized sexual harassment.
Lebanon has no law that protects women & girls from marital rape.
But in America women have more rights than men.
If the march is anti-Trump, Trump is not a misogynist, the grab em by the pussy is a normal conversation us guys have. (I am not defending Trump)
And what's with every feminist defending Linda Sarsour who is an apologist to Sharia law which is inherently misogynistic.
Linda Sarsour has ties with Hamas & Hezbollah which both are terrorist organizations. Hamas along with Fatah have betrayed the Palestinians.
Hezbollah are highly corrupt, they have killed many Syrian civilians, child conscription , they are partially responsible for The Lebanese garbage crisis, and during the 2006 war with the Zionist fascist state of Israel, they fuck up our infrastructure & economy.

[(A)]

"But in America women have more rights than men."

Can you back this claim up with evidence?How many rights do American men have? How many rights do American Women have?

I think you are from the other side of the world and if I where to tell you "Facts" about the part of the world you lived you would laugh at how stupid I sound. Lets try.

In Lebanon men must have mustaches by law.
As far as I know this is completely true yet I am sure from your point of view you know this to be wrong (unless I am right in which case haha)

Women across the world; west or east, north or south share struggles against all forms of class oppression. As a matter of fact Abortion rights where just attacked by trump in a obvious act of class warfare against working women in the country; They have one less "right" now... how many does that make?

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

In America :
- Female genitalia mutilation is criminalized and can result in more the 5 years of prison according to US code 18 article 116(a) & (b) . But male circumcision is completely legal and no federal or at least state law protects young boys from circumcision.
- In times of conflicts or disasters, it shall be the duty of all male citizens residing in the United States to register to the Selective Services Act according to tittle 50 section 453(a) , females are exempt from registration.
- Women who falsely accuse a man of rape, are not punished or if they are they receive a more lenient punishment. 19-year-old Tyler Kost was falsely accused of rape by girls between the ages of 13 & 20, the false allegation was planned by the girls on a Facebook chat group, the Judge released him after 3 years in Prison, but didn’t punish the accusers. see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tyler-kost-sexual-assault-charge-teenage-girls-decided-to-teach-former-school-friend-a-lesson-after-10162785.html
-A woman is capable of sexually assaulting a man, in the western world many grown women have sexually assaulted young men and boys, but the authorities and society don’t take them seriously. Molly Shattuck 47 sexually assaulted a 15-year-old boy, she gave alcohol, the boy felt violated when he saw her giving him a blow job, she was reported to the police, the Judge sentenced her to probation and to 48 weekends of prison. Nevertheless, Jarred Fogle, who was guilty of possessing child pornography, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. It is okay if the 15-year-old was sober and gave the woman his permission to receive oral sex. Science has proved that a rape victim can be sexually aroused, but this is only a biological response and does not mean that the victim is enjoying it. And it is different if a man is dominated by his female partner as a foreplay. See http://www.wbaltv.com/article/molly-shattuck-sentenced-in-child-sex-abuse-case/7095791 (http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wbaltv.com%2Farticle%2 Fmolly-shattuck-sentenced-in-child-sex-abuse-case%2F7095791&t=NTgxMmEwMGQ4MjEwNTRjOGMyMWYxOTJiZjY5NmY3ZTgwZWVk MTRhNCxqbGtWTDBZcA%3D%3D&b=t%3AaR2NgstqJz6roit29761kw&m=1)
- Women recieve 40% less prison time for the exact same crime. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

[(A)]

Not a single one of those things makes feminism in the west pointless. Women are not treated as equals as you point out and therefore there is a point to feminism.
Yes women in the middle east need feminism; but so do black women in America and native women in Canada and so on and so on. Feminism is needed everywhere as long as capitalism exists!
There can be no social revolution without women's liberation everywhere.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Not a single one of those things makes feminism in the west pointless. Women are not treated as equals as you point out and therefore there is a point to feminism.
Yes women in the middle east need feminism; but so do black women in America and native women in Canada and so on and so on. Feminism is needed everywhere as long as capitalism exists!
There can be no social revolution without women's liberation everywhere.
I know that women's liberation is a prerequisite for the class warfare and proletarian revolution.
And I think that if the purpose of this march is too conserve the laws that protect women from injustice, then they have a point. And I agree with them about pro-choice.
In the west, women:
-Are sexually liberated.
-Religiosity and sexual behavior is determined by their individual wishes.
-Are emancipated.
And if feminism is basically about gender equality and equity, then they should help reform the laws that harm men, and educate society.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[(A)]

Women are not liberated sexually when they are threatened by nazis and conservatives for being gay; being black; being mexican; being trans and so on.
Women are still put into submissive positions by religion in the west; Just because it is not the same as in Islam women still face religious persecution in the west.
See above as the same Nazis and Conservatives that target women based on sex; target women based on christian ideology.
Emancipation? Emancipation from what? Not from capital or patriarchy or the state. What emancipation are you talking about?

Your equating feminism with whiteness and its wrong. There are women in the west who are not white and are still treated like second class citizens.
Feminism is totally necessary everywhere just as socialism is and will never become pointless. Even after the social revolution feminism will still have a point; to safeguard the interests of women against any reaction against their new found liberation.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

[quote]Women are not liberated sexually when they are threatened by nazis and conservatives for being gay; being black; being mexican; being trans and so on.
Women are still put into submissive positions by religion in the west; Just because it is not the same as in Islam women still face religious persecution in the west.
See above as the same Nazis and Conservatives that target women based on sex; target women based on christian ideology.

You need to give actual examples of rights that women don't have in the west and the specific countries you are talking about. What are you doing is making an assertion?
You are not giving any facts, if what you are saying is true, then you should be able to pinpoint it?

[IbelieveInanarchy]

[quote]Women are not liberated sexually when they are threatened by nazis and conservatives for being gay; being black; being mexican; being trans and so on.
Women are still put into submissive positions by religion in the west; Just because it is not the same as in Islam women still face religious persecution in the west.
See above as the same Nazis and Conservatives that target women based on sex; target women based on christian ideology.

You need to give actual examples of rights that women don't have in the west and the specific countries you are talking about. What are you doing is making an assertion?
You are not giving any facts, if what you are saying is true, then you should be able to pinpoint it? He is litterally giving examples: being threatened by nazi and conservatives, maybe you are unfamiliar with people picketing outside of abortion clinics? Put into submissive positions by religions is another example he gave.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Women are not liberated sexually when they are threatened by nazis and conservatives for being gay; being black; being mexican; being trans and so on.
Women are still put into submissive positions by religion in the west; Just because it is not the same as in Islam women still face religious persecution in the west.
See above as the same Nazis and Conservatives that target women based on sex; target women based on christian ideology.
Emancipation? Emancipation from what? Not from capital or patriarchy or the state. What emancipation are you talking about?

Your equating feminism with whiteness and its wrong. There are women in the west who are not white and are still treated like second class citizens.
Feminism is totally necessary everywhere just as socialism is and will never become pointless. Even after the social revolution feminism will still have a point; to safeguard the interests of women against any reaction against their new found liberation.

Men have literally none. Women hold all the reproductive rights. Where is the right for at least an equivalent of abortion with financial abortion ignoring entirely the fact that men have no right to their child or say in abortion anyways.
And sexual mutilation of baby boys is still entirely acceptable in the world and people will openly argue for it whilst the same for women is seen as a global issue and any decent human being is against it. Even the majority of Lebanese people are against female mutilation.
The christian right is thankfully a total joke in the west now and isn't taken seriously by the government.

And If the patriarchy is meant to exist to safeguard men's rights and oppress women, it sure does a terrible job by handing over the wealth men generate to women.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Men have literally none. Women hold all the reproductive rights. Where is the right for at least an equivalent of abortion with financial abortion ignoring entirely the fact that men have no right to their child or say in abortion anyways.
And sexual mutilation of baby boys is still entirely acceptable in the world and people will openly argue for it whilst the same for women is seen as a global issue and any decent human being is against it. Even the majority of Lebanese people are against female mutilation.
The christian right is thankfully a total joke in the west now and isn't taken seriously by the government.

And If the patriarchy is meant to exist to safeguard men's rights and oppress women, it sure does a terrible job by handing over the wealth men generate to women.

How is people sexually mutilating boys a feminism issue, its a religion issue.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I am showing that feminism in America is useless, this a a gender equality issue.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I am showing that feminism in America is useless, this a a gender equality issue. You are not showing anything, you are just sounding like some alt-right weirdo. But i'm willing to hear you out; Why do you think people picketing at abortion clinics is not something feminists should fight against? How are feminists useless in battling this?

[willowtooth]

I am a liberal ex-Muslim agnostic atheist, from Lebanon.
I know that women in my region lack their basic rights, like a women cannot travel abroad without the approval of her husband or father.
Last week the parliament abolished the law that criminalized sexual harassment.
Lebanon has no law that protects women & girls from marital rape.
But in America women have more rights than men.
If the march is anti-Trump, Trump is not a misogynist, the grab em by the pussy is a normal conversation us guys have. (I am not defending Trump)
And what's with every feminist defending Linda Sarsour who is an apologist to Sharia law which is inherently misogynistic.
Linda Sarsour has ties with Hamas & Hezbollah which both are terrorist organizations. Hamas along with Fatah have betrayed the Palestinians.
Hezbollah are highly corrupt, they have killed many Syrian civilians, child conscription , they are partially responsible for The Lebanese garbage crisis, and during the 2006 war with the Zionist fascist state of Israel, they fuck up our infrastructure & economy.


In America :
- Female genitalia mutilation is criminalized and can result in more the 5 years of prison according to US code 18 article 116(a) & (b) . But male circumcision is completely legal and no federal or at least state law protects young boys from circumcision.
- In times of conflicts or disasters, it shall be the duty of all male citizens residing in the United States to register to the Selective Services Act according to tittle 50 section 453(a) , females are exempt from registration.
- Women who falsely accuse a man of rape, are not punished or if they are they receive a more lenient punishment. 19-year-old Tyler Kost was falsely accused of rape by girls between the ages of 13 & 20, the false allegation was planned by the girls on a Facebook chat group, the Judge released him after 3 years in Prison, but didn’t punish the accusers. see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tyler-kost-sexual-assault-charge-teenage-girls-decided-to-teach-former-school-friend-a-lesson-after-10162785.html
-A woman is capable of sexually assaulting a man, in the western world many grown women have sexually assaulted young men and boys, but the authorities and society don’t take them seriously. Molly Shattuck 47 sexually assaulted a 15-year-old boy, she gave alcohol, the boy felt violated when he saw her giving him a blow job, she was reported to the police, the Judge sentenced her to probation and to 48 weekends of prison. Nevertheless, Jarred Fogle, who was guilty of possessing child pornography, and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. It is okay if the 15-year-old was sober and gave the woman his permission to receive oral sex. Science has proved that a rape victim can be sexually aroused, but this is only a biological response and does not mean that the victim is enjoying it. And it is different if a man is dominated by his female partner as a foreplay. See http://www.wbaltv.com/article/molly-shattuck-sentenced-in-child-sex-abuse-case/7095791
- Women recieve 40% less prison time for the exact same crime. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

where the fuck are you getting this shit? Linda Sarsour and Tyler Kost have been the latest subjects of fascist propaganda the so called men's rights activists. really just christian regressive sin police and a few opportunistic lawyers. female genital mutilation is a horrifying practice. Its nowehere near comparable to male circumcision which is done purely for medical reasons, with almost no negative health effects. FGM is done to keep a woman a virgin to prevent her from feeling any sexual pleasure or arousal her whole life, its not snipping a little extra skin its a primitive surgical procedure done in the name of female virginity usually done without anaesthesia and tools no more sterile than your average kitchen knife.

as far as your bullshit legal arguments what are you suggesting? that women should be in prison longer? that men accused of rape should be given lighter sentences? maybe you'd like to join NAMBLA? your cherrypicked stories about rape could easily be applied to a male victim, a boy could accuse you of rape just as easily (or theft or assault) why would it matter? maybe you've confused the slogan workers of the world unite with rapists of the world unite?

this kind of reverse sexism and reverse racism are crypto fascist propaganda. "Dont focus on feminism in the wealthy counties because its so much worse elsewhere"... I suppose we should also not focus on racism either since its so much worse in xyz corner of the world. these are same as saying "dont focus on poverty or workers rights when they are so much somehwere else." the same as saying "forget the workers of Lebanon lets all focus on Sudan or Somalia."

In Uganda the racist european christian churches are actually spreading propganda about condoms being evil and causing sin which is why god punishes them with AIDS. this comes from an America preist. our 1st world fascism spreads faster than our sympathies or charities. They are burning condoms in the street, and will probably cause uncountable deaths because of it. Yet if some LGBT american actvist shot him in the head like he deserved before he went to afica, you would be calling him a 1st world gay rights activists who "should be more concerned about gay rights in Pakistan" or some shit..... probably complaining about reverse discrimination against Christians as well

[(A)]

Fucking Liberals; apparently they are this reactionary everywhere and not just in the west.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

where the fuck are you getting this shit? Linda Sarsour and Tyler Kost have been the latest subjects of fascist propaganda the so called men's rights activists. really just christian regressive sin police and a few opportunistic lawyers. female genital mutilation is a horrifying practice. Its nowehere near comparable to male circumcision which is done purely for medical reasons, with almost no negative health effects. FGM is done to keep a woman a virgin to prevent her from feeling any sexual pleasure or arousal her whole life, its not snipping a little extra skin its a primitive surgical procedure done in the name of female virginity usually done without anaesthesia and tools no more sterile than your average kitchen knife.

as far as your bullshit legal arguments what are you suggesting? that women should be in prison longer? that men accused of rape should be given lighter sentences? maybe you'd like to join NAMBLA? your cherrypicked stories about rape could easily be applied to a male victim, a boy could accuse you of rape just as easily (or theft or assault) why would it matter? maybe you've confused the slogan workers of the world unite with rapists of the world unite?

this kind of reverse sexism and reverse racism are crypto fascist propaganda. "Dont focus on feminism in the wealthy counties because its so much worse elsewhere"... I suppose we should also not focus on racism either since its so much worse in xyz corner of the world. these are same as saying "dont focus on poverty or workers rights when they are so much somehwere else." the same as saying "forget the workers of Lebanon lets all focus on Sudan or Somalia."

In Uganda the racist european christian churches are actually spreading propganda about condoms being evil and causing sin which is why god punishes them with AIDS. this comes from an America preist. our 1st world fascism spreads faster than our sympathies or charities. They are burning condoms in the street, and will probably cause uncountable deaths because of it. Yet if some LGBT american actvist shot him in the head like he deserved before he went to afica, you would be calling him a 1st world gay rights activists who "should be more concerned about gay rights in Pakistan" or some shit..... probably complaining about reverse discrimination against Christians as well
I am saying that if women are equal to men then they should also have the same responsibilities.
And I know that FGM is an abomination and any person with half of a brain even Lebanese islamists tell you that it is wrong. There is no medical evidence that shows that male circumcision is beneficial.
Linda Sarsour & other radical feminists are being apologetic to shariah law, which gives men a free pass to beat the shit of their wives, allowing pedophilia, killing apostates.
If a man steals something, and the woman steals the same thing both should have the same severity and time of the punishment.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

as far as your bullshit legal arguments what are you suggesting? that women should be in prison longer? that men accused of rape should be given lighter sentences? maybe you'd like to join NAMBLA? your cherrypicked stories about rape could easily be applied to a male victim, a boy could accuse you of rape just as easily (or theft or assault) why would it matter? maybe you've confused the slogan workers of the world unite with rapists of the world unite?
[/COLOR]
If a man was falsely accused of rape, was sentenced to prison, and further investigation proved that he did not rape the woman. Then the woman should be imprisoned.



Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

You are not showing anything, you are just sounding like some alt-right weirdo. But i'm willing to hear you out; Why do you think people picketing at abortion clinics is not something feminists should fight against? How are feminists useless in battling this?
I gave u reliable sources above.
To white nationalists, alt-rightists, and neo-nazis , I am a sand n!gger terrorist.
And I don't see any feminist organizations holding counter-demonstrations against christian fundies near abortion clinics.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

And if what you folks are saying is true? Then why don't you cite reliable sources like I did?

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I gave u reliable sources above.
To white nationalists, alt-rightists, and neo-nazis , I am a sand n!gger terrorist.
And I don't see any feminist organizations holding counter-demonstrations against christian fundies near abortion clinics.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk Just because fascists of another race don't like your race, doesn't mean you are unable to be a fascist yourself.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Just because fascists of another race don't like your race, doesn't mean you are unable to be a fascist yourself.
How am I being a fascist?
Could u point out where?
Any person of a certain race can be racist against another.


Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[IbelieveInanarchy]

How am I being a fascist?
Could u point out where?
Any person of a certain race can be racist against another.


Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk I did not say you were, but you were acting like you can say anything and be free from the blame of being a fascist because you apparently have a dark skin colour.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I did not say you were, but you were acting like you can say anything and be free from the blame of being a fascist because you apparently have a dark skin colour.
One time on facebook I was critcising Islamic law to regressive leftists , and some alt-righters jumped calling me a sand nigger because I mentioned that I am Arab and used the term A-rab.
And the regressive left said that I have internalized racism against Arabs.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

And I know it is the worst excuse to justify their fascist or racist ideas just because someone is darker skinned, or queer, or trans, or whatever they are.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[ckaihatsu]

The christian right is thankfully a total joke in the west now and isn't taken seriously by the government.


Vice President Pence addresses annual anti-abortion rally in Washington

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/28/wash-j28.html

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Vice President Pence addresses annual anti-abortion rally in Washington

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/28/wash-j28.html an actual source O;

[almost]

in regards to the women's march that recently took place across the us, some organizers in some cities made press releases of sorts citing how the march was trans exclusive, that they didn't like the police friendly tone, and that they personally regretted working with local politicians

[IbelieveInanarchy]

in regards to the women's march that recently took place across the us, some organizers in some cities made press releases of sorts citing how the march was trans exclusive, that they didn't like the police friendly tone, and that they personally regretted working with local politicians What does trans-exclusive mean? And what about working with local politicians did the not like?

[Raul Castro]

yes they are liberated m8. There are no laws against them and the ways in which you point out as being sexist could be reversed to suggest that men are sexist

[Gavrilo93]

Well done boys. Let's lynch this poor guy virtually who asked his question. You really do a favor to the left-side.

[willowtooth]

I am saying that if women are equal to men then they should also have the same responsibilities. Fuck that? why should they? you act like this is the same story in every country, why not have a country where women are the majority in all government offices national and local, and they control the major business' and are paid vastly more on average. If one country was like this it wouldn't make up for the rest of the world, and it certainly wouldn't equal the oppression against women throughout history



And I know that FGM is an abomination and any person with half of a brain even Lebanese islamists tell you that it is wrong. Lebanon is a developed nation, Islamists in the desert tribes and in the mountains still practice it, although it really has nothing to do with religion. it has to do with virginity. many tribes in the amazon and the congo practice it and they've never heard of the quran or the bible


There is no medical evidence that shows that male circumcision is beneficial.bullshit. the WHO encourages it to prevent the spread of AIDS for fucks sake. It prevents infections both for the boy and his future sexual partners and the spread of STD's it has little to no negative effects if done properly.


Linda Sarsour & other radical feminists are being apologetic to shariah law, which gives men a free pass to beat the shit of their wives, allowing pedophilia, killing apostates.She is working hard to end discrimination against muslims, in America they get nightmare scenarios of shariah law that make them think it means stoning women to death. When most Muslims think it means staying away from alcohol and pork. So when neo nazis (or even just conservative news outlets like fox news) discuss sharia law they show how hundreds of millions of Muslims surveyed say they favor, or approve of, or support shariah law.

Her appearance on election night wearing a hijab talking about Trump has made her the latest target of hate speech, death threats, and propaganda coming from the christian right. The same christian right that your apparently claiming is weak and powerless despite getting their candidate elected, and burning down a few mosques recently I guess they were standing up to shariah law then too?



If a man steals something, and the woman steals the same thing both should have the same severity and time of the punishment.fuck that, men have been stealing women for years they deserve reparations they should go free no matter what they steal

I want to know what horse shit propaganda outlet your getting this from, is it Brietbart? or maybe info wars?

[willowtooth]

Fucking Liberals; apparently they are this reactionary everywhere and not just in the west.


Just because fascists of another race don't like your race, doesn't mean you are unable to be a fascist yourself.


Well done boys. Let's lynch this poor guy virtually who asked his question. You really do a favor to the left-side.

I'm about the smack the shit out of all three of you assholes what the fuck is wrong with you? what type of weird liberal racism is going here, he's from lebanon he's not a witch doctor with a bone through his nose who's afraid to ride escalators and gets carsick going 30mph

this is Lebanon the most culturally diverse country on earth

http://www.beirutnightlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DownTown_Beirut_Fireworks9.jpg

[ckaihatsu]

President Trump finally does the unthinkable to women's rights

http://dingo.care2.com/c2p/Sarah/trumpwomen.png

Protect Women's Rights - Tell Trump: Do Not Cut the Office of Violence Against Women!


Sign Now (http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AW3jl/zSE_/t8hl)


Chris,

Every 9 seconds a woman in the United States is assaulted or beaten.

In a society that tends to "look the other way", the Department of Justice's Office on Violence Against Women is making a difference. The Office on Violence Against Women runs 25 grant programs to reduce sexual assault, domestic violence, and dating violence. Donald Trump wants to get rid of these programs, but we can stand against it. (http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AW3jl/zSE_/t8hl)

On Saturday, January 21st 2017, 3.3 million people within the United States marched in solidarity to protect Women's Rights. The Women's March spread throughout every continent across the world.

America should be working to protecting its citizens from harm, and the elimination of these programs would put more people at risk. Tell President Trump that we refuse to go backwards. (http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AW3jl/zSE_/t8hl)

Thank you,

The Care2 Petitions Team




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[Gavrilo93]

Willowtooth:

That's what I implied with my comment too, you idiot. I recommend you to practice the skill of reading comprehension before you start insulting me next time.

[willowtooth]

President Trump finally does the unthinkable to women's rights

http://dingo.care2.com/c2p/Sarah/trumpwomen.png

Protect Women's Rights - Tell Trump: Do Not Cut the Office of Violence Against Women!


Sign Now (http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AW3jl/zSE_/t8hl)


Chris,

Every 9 seconds a woman in the United States is assaulted or beaten.

In a society that tends to "look the other way", the Department of Justice's Office on Violence Against Women is making a difference. The Office on Violence Against Women runs 25 grant programs to reduce sexual assault, domestic violence, and dating violence. Donald Trump wants to get rid of these programs, but we can stand against it. (http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AW3jl/zSE_/t8hl)

On Saturday, January 21st 2017, 3.3 million people within the United States marched in solidarity to protect Women's Rights. The Women's March spread throughout every continent across the world.

America should be working to protecting its citizens from harm, and the elimination of these programs would put more people at risk. Tell President Trump that we refuse to go backwards. (http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/AW3jl/zSE_/t8hl)

Thank you,

The Care2 Petitions Team




To stop receiving this newsletter, visit:
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or send a blank email message to:
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http://www.care2.com

I love the fact that you just posted the cuts to women's violence programs rather than the fact that Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, are now banned from travelling to USA. Or that refugees who sold all their belongings for a ticket to get to the USA were stranded, that people were arrested at airports that even dual citizens are banned. Unless of course they can prove their christian lol Let's just say I hope OP has his passport in order before he tries to visit america to scold their weak and powerless christians on being so lenient on their uppity feminists

[willowtooth]

Willowtooth:

That's what I implied with my comment too, you idiot. I recommend you to practice the skill of reading comprehension before you start insulting me next time.
you implied what too? what did you imply exactly? that we should be nicer too him? that we're lynching him? who was your comment directed too? what the fuck are you talking about?

[Gavrilo93]

you implied what too? what did you imply exactly? that we should be nicer too him? that we're lynching him? who was your comment directed too? what the fuck are you talking about?

I observed your comments. You always pick fights with people here. Do you think that your viewpoint is the only acceptable one? Or you just want to discourage people to participate in discussions here?

[willowtooth]

I observed your comments. You always pick fights with people here. Do you think that your viewpoint is the only acceptable one? Or you just want to discourage people to participate in discussions here?
dont fucking tone troll me ill cuss as much as I fucking want. If you dont like it go to christian forums dot com

[Gavrilo93]

dont fucking tone troll me ill cuss as much as I fucking want. If you dont like it go to christian forums dot com

Maybe you should go there, because you are a reactionary.

[willowtooth]

Maybe you should go there, because you are a reactionary.
dont you mean an infidel? lol

alright lets go back what the fuck did you mean by we are "lynching" him? what did you mean by that try to fooooooooooooooocus

[Gavrilo93]

F*ck you! You are only here on this website to discredit the left side. That comment wasn't even directed at you, yet you started to insult me. And not for the first time either. I did nothing wrong to you, brother. Leave me alone already.

[willowtooth]

F*ck you! You are only here on this website to discredit the left side. That comment wasn't even directed at you, yet you started to insult me. And not for the first time either. I did nothing wrong to you, brother. Leave me alone already.
alright I''m sorry lil' buddy I didn't mean to bully you, why dont you take a breath and try and explain why you think 6 million jews need to exterminated as soon as possible and we'll discuss this in as polite and respectful of a manner as possible

[Gavrilo93]

Why do you think that I think that?

[willowtooth]

Why do you think that I think that?
Jesus fucking Christ....

[Gavrilo93]

Jesus fucking Christ....

Don't say that. You encourage clerical fascism.

[ckaihatsu]

I love the fact that you just posted the cuts to women's violence programs rather than the fact that Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, are now banned from travelling to USA. Or that refugees who sold all their belongings for a ticket to get to the USA were stranded, that people were arrested at airports that even dual citizens are banned. Unless of course they can prove their christian lol Let's just say I hope OP has his passport in order before he tries to visit america to scold their weak and powerless christians on being so lenient on their uppity feminists


Truly you are demonstrably a master of irony (and ironing)(get it? -- domestic work) with your use of the term 'uppity'.

Actually here's where me being a news junkie pays off:





A Federal Judge Just Issued a Stay Against Donald Trump's "Muslim Ban"

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/muslim-ban-federal-court

[...]

Resistance to Trump: Abolition as a Powerful Weapon

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/196567-Resistance-to-Trump-Abolition-as-a-Powerful-Weapon?p=2879652#post2879652


---


Hey, if we're this harsh with *each other*, imagine what we'd do to *the opposition* -- !


= D

[Gavrilo93]

Hey, if we're this harsh with *each other*, imagine what we'd do to *the opposition* -- !


= D

Yeah, since I asked the question in the LEARNING section whether it is possible to make a christian man communist, he views me his enemy. Sorry guys, I'm too reactionary because I do not want to exterminate everyone who believes in some kind of supernatural being. You should take the first opportunity to assassinate me before my thoughts become too dangerous for the revolution. :)

[willowtooth]

Truly you are demonstrably a master of irony (and ironing)(get it? -- domestic work) with your use of the term 'uppity'.

Actually here's where me being a news junkie pays off:




Resistance to Trump: Abolition as a Powerful Weapon

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/196567-Resistance-to-Trump-Abolition-as-a-Powerful-Weapon?p=2879652#post2879652


---


Hey, if we're this harsh with *each other*, imagine what we'd do to *the opposition* -- !


= Dhate to break it to you but

Omar Jadwat, director of the ACLU’s Immigrants Rights project, told The NY Post (http://nypost.com/2017/01/29/customs-agents-ignore-judge-enforce-trumps-travel-ban-aclu/?utm_source=maropost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nypdaily&utm_content=20170129) late Saturday that federal customs agents continue to follow President Trump’s executive order on banning travelers from seven majority-Muslim countries. The agents have been willfully ignoring US District Court Judge Ann Donnelly’s emergency stay which temporarily barred the expulsion of those foreign nationals.The judge ruled in favor of an ACLU habeas corpus petition on behalf of two Iraqi men who had been detained at John F. Kennedy International Airport on Friday.
“The court’s order could not be clearer… they need to comply with the order,” Jadwat said, according to the Post. “It’s enough to be a serious concern.”
The American Civil Liberties Union has requested class-action status to represent foreigners who have been unlawfully detained at US ports of entry. President Trump, for his part, said in the Oval Office on Saturday afternoon that the government was prepared to implement the executive order, expaining that “it’s not a Muslim ban.”
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/aclu-customs-agents-willfully-ignoring-judges-ruling-on-trumps-ban/2017/01/29/

and did you just call me an uppity feminist? lol

[ckaihatsu]

Yeah, since I asked the question in the LEARNING section whether it is possible to make a christian man communist, he views me his enemy. Sorry guys, I'm too reactionary because I do not want to exterminate everyone who believes in some kind of supernatural being.




You should take the first opportunity to assassinate me before my thoughts become too dangerous for the revolution. :)


Ehhhh, WT already assassinates you in the *irony* department...! (heh)

- - - Updated - - -




hate to break it to you but


Yeesh -- this is either a constitutional crisis or outright executive fascism, now....





and did you just call me an uppity feminist? lol


Yeah, *everyone's* an uppity feminist in my book until proven otherwise.... (grin)

[Gavrilo93]

Ehhhh, WT already assassinates you in the *irony* department...!

Perhaps you are right. But it is still too much for me, even if it's just irony. One shouldn't joke about the Holocaust. That's a taboo for me.

[willowtooth]

Yeah, since I asked the question in the LEARNING section whether it is possible to make a christian man communist, he views me his enemy. Sorry guys, I'm too reactionary because I do not want to exterminate everyone who believes in some kind of supernatural being. You should take the first opportunity to assassinate me before my thoughts become too dangerous for the revolution. :)
no... it's the fact that you're a tone troll that pisses me off


The “tone troll” is a real critter. They are the most common subspecies of Internet troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)), mostly harmless but super annoying, and easy to spot in the wild: they complain about the tone of a message, rather than its substance. They fixate on the allegedly poor attitude of anyone who challenges them. You can’t just have a difference of opinion with a tone troll: you will be declared dismissive, close-minded, arrogant, unprofessional, negative (https://www.painscience.com/articles/negativity.php), or all of the above.Tone trolls will see hostility even when it’s not there — equating disagreement with hostility is their defining trait — but they really get their knickers in a twist about any trace of actual snark, frustration, or contempt in the delivery of a point. They act like emotion and personality are verboten in debate (though they will deny this). A genuinely mean-spirited tone may be unpersuasive, but it doesn’t actually have anything to do with the validity of whatever is being said. Of course.
Sometimes tone trolls turn the accusation of tone trolling on their target. It’s just another evasive tactic.
“I was one called a tone troll by a tone troll,” a Facebook friend reported. “It was like Inception.”
Tone troll resistance is futile: avoidance is the only viable tactic

Online arguing is dominated by sparring with tone trolls and trying to get them back on topic (if they were ever on it in the first place). I won’t do it. While some useful critical analysis can come from smarter tone trolls, it’s too rare and too tedious to extract. The species mostly just reacts emotionally to the cognitive dissonance caused by ideas that are incompatible with their faith-based beliefs and practices. They usually just stay doggedly on task: MUST DESTROY MESSENGER.
Learn to recognize them, and do not engage.

http://www.paulingraham.com/tone-trolls.html

I wanna yell at A and Ibelieveanarachy.... where are they? Why are there so few people posting here lately?

[Gavrilo93]

no... it's the fact that you're a tone troll that pisses me off

I never heard about this expression before. Believe me, I was not trolling. It is extremely important for me that debates are done in a polite manner.

[ckaihatsu]

Perhaps you are right. But it is still too much for me, even if it's just irony. One shouldn't joke about the Holocaust. That's a taboo for me.





alright I''m sorry lil' buddy I didn't mean to bully you, why dont you take a breath and try and explain why you think 6 million jews need to exterminated as soon as possible and we'll discuss this in as polite and respectful of a manner as possible


I don't think WT was *joking* about the Holocaust as much as he was simply *referencing* it -- no harm, no foul.





no... it's the fact that you're a tone troll that pisses me off


I think G93 is just trying to make his bones around here -- probably feels a little overwhelmed. Let's run him through the gauntlet...!


(8'/


= D

[willowtooth]

I never heard about this expression before. Believe me, I was not trolling. It is extremely important for me that debates are done in a polite manner.
thats not important

[ckaihatsu]

I wanna yell at A and Ibelieveanarachy.... where are they?


I can smell their cybersex from here....


x D

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I think the holocaust is why Israel exists

[Gavrilo93]

I think the holocaust is why Israel exists

It exists in spite of it. Actually the idea of a Jewish state is older than the Holocaust. It was already agreed in 1917 that they would have their own state at one point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

(Willowtooth, you don't have to call me a Zionist now. I'm just telling.)

[willowtooth]

I think the holocaust is why Israel exists
and some people think cucumbers taste better pickled?

[Gavrilo93]

thats not important

That's the only thing which is important, comrade! Don't worry I won't report you to the KGB, though for having your own thoughts. But what kind of Marxist are you? It is the words which are the material of thoughts. Yes, comrade. The material. That's why you should care about the choice of your words. Because only that's what matters. All else is just superstructure. A social construct.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

That weird moment when Gavrilo93 says that i am doing something wrong, then willowtooth tells me I'm doing the same thing wrong, and then he goes on and fights with Gavrilo93.

But you both are right, i should be less combative in the future, thanks for pointing it out :)

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

However, I think the Women's rights movement should pressure Trump's administration, to withdraw the abortion law.
But with respect to immigration, I think the US government should regulate it.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[IbelieveInanarchy]

However, I think the Women's rights movement should pressure Trump's administration, to withdraw the abortion law.
But with respect to immigration, I think the US government should regulate it.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk why?

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

why?

Many Muslims immigrants, are responsible for terrorist activities, and sexual assault especially in Germany.
https://youtu.be/5NpJdLecED0

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[IbelieveInanarchy]

Many Muslims immigrants, are responsible for terrorist activities, and sexual assault especially in Germany.
https://youtu.be/5NpJdLecED0

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk Can you give a source of what percentage of muslim immigrants become terrorists? Or some other statistic, instead of a random ayaan hirsi ali video. It is obvious islam is fucking retarded, but why would you generalize everyone from a certain country just because they were born there? The trump ban is also applicable to refugees, the people running from islamic extremism. How is this justifiable?

[Gavrilo93]

By the way, Trump didn't ban abortion. He only cut state funding of organizations which advertise or perform it. (I'm not defending the guy, just stating it as a fact) Shouldn't you as an anarchist be happy? Lesser state, less taxes. It is still possible to perform an abortion legally. But without the monetary support of the Federal Government.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

By the way, Trump didn't ban abortion. He only cut state funding of organizations which advertise or perform it. (I'm not defending the guy, just stating it as a fact) Shouldn't you as an anarchist be happy? Lesser state, less taxes. It is still possible to perform an abortion legally. But without the monetary support of the Federal Government. I find it mildly ironic how in several threads you defend trump, and then immediately put a disclaimer that you are not defending him. But that is besides the point. You are making a caricature of anarchism as "just no state". All anarchists are aware that people suffer in the present and that, even though we don't have anarchism now, it is still your ethical obligation to fight discrimination and injustice at this moment. Your infantile mind shows when you say "anarchists want less taxes" you have not even the slightest understanding of what anarchism is.

[Gavrilo93]

I find it mildly ironic how in several threads you defend trump, and then immediately put a disclaimer that you are not defending him. But that is besides the point. You are making a caricature of anarchism as "just no state". All anarchists are aware that people suffer in the present and that, even though we don't have anarchism now, it is still your ethical obligation to fight discrimination and injustice at this moment. Your infantile mind shows when you say "anarchists want less taxes" you have not even the slightest understanding of what anarchism is.

I think that you mixed me up with someone. This was the first time I wrote something about Trump on this website ever. And obviously I know that the law is still unjust because it makes it almost impossible for poor women to get an abortion cheaply. I did not say that the law itself is just. What I said that an anarchist should support it. I'm a socialist, so I don't support it. Perhaps I phrased my sentence in a wrong way, or perhaps you are unable to see the real meaning behind it: If there was anarchy, the matter of abortion would be the same as it is now under Trump's leadership. It's your business, not ours. Solve it. We won't help. But we won't deny you the opportunity to do so either. Am I wrong with that?

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I think that you mixed me up with someone. This was the first time I wrote something about Trump on this website ever. And obviously I know that the law is still unjust because it makes it almost impossible for poor women to get an abortion cheaply. I did not say that the law itself is just. What I said that an anarchist should support it. I'm a socialist, so I don't support it. Perhaps I phrased my sentence in a wrong way, or perhaps you are unable to see the real meaning behind it: If there was anarchy, the matter of abortion would be the same as it is now under Trump's leadership. It's your business, not ours. Solve it. We won't help. But we won't deny you the opportunity to do so either. Am I wrong with that? Oh sorry maybe i confused you with someone then. And yes you are kind of wrong in your view of anarchism, at least if you speak of left wing anarchism. There are anarcho-capitalists, which are basically scum. They say shit like everyone fend for themselves. However no left wint anarchists seriously proposes to just let women do their own abortions or stuff, and in fact most communes would set up programs to help with abortion.

In conclusion: we don't live in anarchism now, i want people to have good access to abortion and other health care, therefore i support 'socialist' measures in achieving these objectives in the present.

[Gavrilo93]

There are anarcho-capitalists, which are basically scum.

Haha, you can say that again.

http://memes.infoshop.org/blogs-mu/files/2015/12/12342271_794448850666298_7286391960962508775_n.jpg

I will ask you a question in PM about anarcho-capitalism and left wing anarchism. (I don't want to spam about it here, because the topic is entirely different.)

[ckaihatsu]

Many Muslims immigrants, are responsible for terrorist activities, and sexual assault especially in Germany.
https://youtu.be/5NpJdLecED0

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


I agree with Ayaan Hirsi Ali's stance in the video.





By the way, Trump didn't ban abortion. He only cut state funding of organizations which advertise or perform it. (I'm not defending the guy, just stating it as a fact) Shouldn't you as an anarchist be happy? Lesser state, less taxes. It is still possible to perform an abortion legally. But without the monetary support of the Federal Government.


The reason why revolutionaries should oppose cuts in government social spending is because then those who are poorer are discriminated against.

[ckaihatsu]

Also:





This figure, of course, does not include refugees, who must travel without visas. There are 63 million displaced persons around the world, largely the result of US-instigated wars and civil wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Libya, and economic devastation of large parts of Africa because of US-backed austerity policies. Trump proposes to cut the tiny US quota for refugees from the 110,000 accepted by Obama last year to 50,000 or less: in other words, from 0.2 percent of the total to less than 0.1 percent, for the richest country in the world.




http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/31/immi-j31.html

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Muslim ban explained: https://youtu.be/DXn1ixETmns
George Soros funded organizers of the women's march: https://youtu.be/38p9Vy9zxUQ

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Many Muslims immigrants, are responsible for terrorist activities, and sexual assault especially in Germany.
https://youtu.be/5NpJdLecED0



I agree with Ayaan Hirsi Ali's stance in the video.
I actually disagree with a lot said in the video - namely that there is a marked difference in culture that somehow leads to muslim men being specifically worse than non-muslim men. The majority of rape and sexual assault inflicted upon women is by people they know and that's very rarely some random muslim immigrant. The culture in the west is not a monolith of perfect egalitarian liberalism and, as we have seen recently in the highly publicised rapes committed by college american football players in the US, there are often insidious aspects of Western culture that are very much willing to defend and obfuscate the acts committed by white christian or atheist males and normalising the degradation of women. That there are more reported instances of rape and sexual assault has everything to do with decades of struggle women have gone through to highlight sexism and rape in society and absolutely nothing to do with immigration from countries with a predominantly muslim religious culture - correlation is not causation, after all. You'll notice that the Indian News and Views channel didn't highlight India but highlighted Bangladesh and Pakistan despite there being some very prominent news stories of rapes in India and the failures of the Indian law system in prosecuting the individuals involved. Does that mean that men who are raised in a predominantly hindu culture have bad attitudes towards women? Such an idea is irrational and is such a sweeping generalisation that anyone with two braincells to rub together should dismiss it.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that in class society there was historically a division of labour predicated on gender that created the economic base that informed an ideology that put men in a position of privilege over women. Capitalism has brought with it the advancements in technology and education that has changed that division of labour, has started to change the economic power dynamic of gender, and allowed individuals who were previously largely excluded from the public discourse to speak up about the shit that goes on in their lives. Just because this has led to huge improvements in the lives of women in the West is largely irrelevant, shit still ain't perfect and shit still needs to be highlighted and organised against.

The sort of shitty 'whataboutism' to deflect from the problems of Western culture is just generally an example of a poor argument and poor politics. Yes, the conditions in the Middle East and North Africa are generally pretty shit for women and on some arbitrary scale they are comparatively worse than the conditions for women in the West. But what does that have to do with women in the West having a voice and saying that some aspects of their lives are pretty shit and the current government is perpetuating that nonsense? Frankly, stating that people in the West should support political change for women elsewhere in the world and stop fighting for political change in their own countries is fucking ludicrous. Do you think the people marching in Washington and elsewhere wouldn't want women in Lebanon to have a better existence? They'd celebrate it! But what can a person in Oxnard, California or wherever the fuck realistically do to change the government and culture in Lebanon or Pakistan or wherever?

Revolutionary socialists in this era need to be engaging with these movements positively and not dismissing them to highlight issues elsewhere and it's certainly an utter travesty that revolutionaries would adopt the phraseology of the right wing and the liberals in suggesting that something as arbitrary as what country you are born in would make you more likely to rape someone. Every source of injustice either at home or in a distant country is yet another sign of the inadequacies of class society to deal with modern technology and ideas, it's yet another sign that the traditions of all the dead generations weigh like mountains on the brains of the living.

[willowtooth]

Many Muslims immigrants, are responsible for terrorist activities, and sexual assault especially in Germany.
https://youtu.be/5NpJdLecED0

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


Muslim ban explained: https://youtu.be/DXn1ixETmns
George Soros funded organizers of the women's march: https://youtu.be/38p9Vy9zxUQ

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
Prager university, MRA activism, george soros conspiracies, germany "sexual assault" (not rape "sexual assault" nice touch) random YT videos as sources rather than anything real like "end times prophecy news", your a muslim who agrees with the muslim ban seriously? your calling Sarsour a hezbollah member and a shariah apologist but your promoting Hirsi Ali who I'm pretty sure is still on the SPLC hate watchlist what the fuck?

dude other than "kind of not being into the whole organized religion thing" your about as right wing they come. There are devout muslim Imams more left wing then you.

Are you building up to holocaust denial?

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

19612
I am an atheist, I am critical of Islam.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

19612
I am an atheist, I am critical of Islam.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170201/726e52b4643b4c73902f930e1730930e.jpg

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

[Gavrilo93]

19612
I am an atheist, I am critical of Islam.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Don't worry, willowtooth sees religious people everywhere. I am, for example a christian fundamentalist in his eyes, because I asked whether it is possible to make a christian man communist. You don't have to take him seriously. Spotting the 'counter-revolutionary clerical fascists' is his obsession.

[willowtooth]

19612
I am an atheist, I am critical of Islam.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
atheists dont usually source "end times prophecy news"

- - - Updated - - -


Don't worry, willowtooth sees religious people everywhere. I am, for example a christian fundamentalist in his eyes, because I asked whether it is possible to make a christian man communist. You don't have to take him seriously. Spotting the 'counter-revolutionary clerical fascists' is his obsession.
lol how was church?

[Gavrilo93]

lol how was church?

How was the mental asylum?

[willowtooth]

How was the mental asylum?
Whats wrong with being in a mental asylum? Do people still say "mental asylum"?

[Gavrilo93]

Whats wrong with being in a mental asylum? Do people still say "mental asylum"?

Oh my God....

Oops, I mean.... damn. Sorry I'm a clerical fascist after all. Should I exercise self-criticism comrade schizophrenic? Then you shall execute me, once my mind has been purified in Room 101.

[willowtooth]

Oh my God....

Oops, I mean.... damn. Sorry I'm a clerical fascist after all. Should I exercise self-criticism comrade schizophrenic? Then you shall execute me, once my mind has been purified in Room 101.
execute you? no no no ....10 years working in the beetfields in silence should cure you of your reactionary tendencies... then you'll be fine

[Gavrilo93]

execute you? no no no ....10 years working in the beetfields in silence should cure you of your reactionary tendencies... then you'll be fine

Then I shall head there. I head there, because I feel that we are building a better world. I don't want to obstruct it with the way I think. All hail Comrade Schizophrenic, and his tankie mob on this forum who showed me the dangers of independent thinking!

[willowtooth]

Then I shall head there. I head there, because I feel that we are building a better world. I don't want to obstruct it with the way I think. All hail Comrade Schizophrenic, and his tankie mob on this forum who showed me the dangers of independent thinking!

https://media.giphy.com/media/T7j5439wv9iq4/giphy.gif

[ckaihatsu]

I actually disagree with a lot said in the video - namely that there is a marked difference in culture that somehow leads to muslim men being specifically worse than non-muslim men. The majority of rape and sexual assault inflicted upon women is by people they know and that's very rarely some random muslim immigrant. The culture in the west is not a monolith of perfect egalitarian liberalism and, as we have seen recently in the highly publicised rapes committed by college american football players in the US, there are often insidious aspects of Western culture that are very much willing to defend and obfuscate the acts committed by white christian or atheist males and normalising the degradation of women. That there are more reported instances of rape and sexual assault has everything to do with decades of struggle women have gone through to highlight sexism and rape in society and absolutely nothing to do with immigration from countries with a predominantly muslim religious culture - correlation is not causation, after all. You'll notice that the Indian News and Views channel didn't highlight India but highlighted Bangladesh and Pakistan despite there being some very prominent news stories of rapes in India and the failures of the Indian law system in prosecuting the individuals involved. Does that mean that men who are raised in a predominantly hindu culture have bad attitudes towards women? Such an idea is irrational and is such a sweeping generalisation that anyone with two braincells to rub together should dismiss it.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that in class society there was historically a division of labour predicated on gender that created the economic base that informed an ideology that put men in a position of privilege over women. Capitalism has brought with it the advancements in technology and education that has changed that division of labour, has started to change the economic power dynamic of gender, and allowed individuals who were previously largely excluded from the public discourse to speak up about the shit that goes on in their lives. Just because this has led to huge improvements in the lives of women in the West is largely irrelevant, shit still ain't perfect and shit still needs to be highlighted and organised against.

The sort of shitty 'whataboutism' to deflect from the problems of Western culture is just generally an example of a poor argument and poor politics. Yes, the conditions in the Middle East and North Africa are generally pretty shit for women and on some arbitrary scale they are comparatively worse than the conditions for women in the West. But what does that have to do with women in the West having a voice and saying that some aspects of their lives are pretty shit and the current government is perpetuating that nonsense? Frankly, stating that people in the West should support political change for women elsewhere in the world and stop fighting for political change in their own countries is fucking ludicrous. Do you think the people marching in Washington and elsewhere wouldn't want women in Lebanon to have a better existence? They'd celebrate it! But what can a person in Oxnard, California or wherever the fuck realistically do to change the government and culture in Lebanon or Pakistan or wherever?

Revolutionary socialists in this era need to be engaging with these movements positively and not dismissing them to highlight issues elsewhere and it's certainly an utter travesty that revolutionaries would adopt the phraseology of the right wing and the liberals in suggesting that something as arbitrary as what country you are born in would make you more likely to rape someone. Every source of injustice either at home or in a distant country is yet another sign of the inadequacies of class society to deal with modern technology and ideas, it's yet another sign that the traditions of all the dead generations weigh like mountains on the brains of the living.


Sure, I'm not trying to make a cottage industry out of bourgeois gender disparities, by country, and I also appreciate that Western involvement abroad could easily become 'cultural imperialism' around feminist issues, but I still think that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is correct to point out that people should be aware of significant quality-of-life / socioeconomic-status differences by country or culture. This isn't to preempt or override underlying *class* differences with such a critique, but merely to take Ali's line as a call for greater feminist *literacy*, so-to-speak. Maybe saying that Middle Eastern women are relatively more oppressed, exploited, and are poorer than their Western counterparts isn't exactly *news*, but there's nothing wrong with hearing those facts on a regular basis, either.

I took Ali's critique to be one of *anti-mysticism*, or an anti-postmodernist stance, to say that, yes, we *can* discern material distinctions in women's ways of life and social treatment from one area of the globe to another, so that our minds don't simply *gloss over* such differences in our larger treatment of what is humane and what is not.

While women's oppression happens everywhere we shouldn't simply pool it all together as being roughly the same with just different cultural 'flavors' at play -- to do that would be a shallow and *non-materialist* approach.

[ckaihatsu]

VIDEO - Women's March in Chicago

View Online (https://cts.vrmailer1.com/click?sk=aIo8B2JgQjBJ-dMNXAO8F5HtLPaXYr568KdANghEOUwA=/aHR0cHM6Ly92cjIudmVydGljYWxyZXNwb25zZS5jb20vZW1haW xzLzE3NTkyMTg2MTA5MjMxP2NvbnRhY3RfaWQ9MTc1OTIxOTAx MzY5MjQ=/oMzBfreTpCBqoEI9qXQkDQ==&merge_field_type=%7BVR_HOSTED_LINK%7D&href_id_source=vr2-href-id-source-1)

https://vr2-assets.verticalresponse.com/email_images/17592186458423/17592186048178/original/Stairway-cluster.jpg

Watch Video (https://cts.vrmailer1.com/click?sk=aIo8B2JgQjBJ-dMNXAO8F5HtLPaXYr568KdANghEOUwA=/aHR0cHM6Ly95b3V0dS5iZS9XSHdyNEhHTXR2cw==/PpVj2Kt8v465YsA0-Ilkxw==&merge_field_type=(?x-mi:(?%3C=href=)[%5Cs]*[%27%22](?%3Curl%3E[%5E%7B%27%22].+?)[%27%22])&href_id_source=vr2-href-id-source-47)

Women's March in Chicago

Among the historic marches throughout the U.S., the Chicago version of the Women’s March on January 21, 2017 (official count 250,000) ushered in a new era of activism. Sarah Chambers (Chicago Teachers Union Executive Board member and Special Education teacher) provides a running commentary interwoven with scenes and interviews. On the surface it was a protest against Trump’s inauguration. But the political content of the event pointed beyond that and beyond mainstream politics. Flexing its new muscles, this inchoate sea of resistance reached beyond just women’s rights only. Length 14:38.

Video url: https://youtu.be/WHwr4HGMtvs

WHwr4HGMtvs


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[GiantMonkeyMan]

Sure, I'm not trying to make a cottage industry out of bourgeois gender disparities, by country, and I also appreciate that Western involvement abroad could easily become 'cultural imperialism' around feminist issues, but I still think that Ayaan Hirsi Ali is correct to point out that people should be aware of significant quality-of-life / socioeconomic-status differences by country or culture. This isn't to preempt or override underlying *class* differences with such a critique, but merely to take Ali's line as a call for greater feminist *literacy*, so-to-speak. Maybe saying that Middle Eastern women are relatively more oppressed, exploited, and are poorer than their Western counterparts isn't exactly *news*, but there's nothing wrong with hearing those facts on a regular basis, either.

I took Ali's critique to be one of *anti-mysticism*, or an anti-postmodernist stance, to say that, yes, we *can* discern material distinctions in women's ways of life and social treatment from one area of the globe to another, so that our minds don't simply *gloss over* such differences in our larger treatment of what is humane and what is not.

While women's oppression happens everywhere we shouldn't simply pool it all together as being roughly the same with just different cultural 'flavors' at play -- to do that would be a shallow and *non-materialist* approach.
I generally trust you to have quite a solid understanding of such things, ckaihatsu, and I ultimately agree with your position. I only quoted your post because I thought it pretty obvious that Ibn.AL.Muqafaa was just posting that shit to defend his dismissal of the necessity of feminism in the west and the legitimacy of women being pissed by having a ridiculous orange misogynist as their President and was a bit surprised you'd let it slide. Some of the discussion in this thread has been pretty shit - take the ridiculous and petty argument above for example.

[ckaihatsu]

I generally trust you to have quite a solid understanding of such things, ckaihatsu, and I ultimately agree with your position. I only quoted your post because I thought it pretty obvious that Ibn.AL.Muqafaa was just posting that shit to defend his dismissal of the necessity of feminism in the west and the legitimacy of women being pissed by having a ridiculous orange misogynist as their President and was a bit surprised you'd let it slide. Some of the discussion in this thread has been pretty shit - take the ridiculous and petty argument above for example.


And I trust *you*, Giant Monkey Man -- ! (heh)

I think the biggest problem with IAM is his emphasis of a purported 'men's oppression' line -- his detailing of West vs. Middle East for women seems fine, though.

[willowtooth]

I generally trust you to have quite a solid understanding of such things, ckaihatsu, and I ultimately agree with your position. I only quoted your post because I thought it pretty obvious that Ibn.AL.Muqafaa was just posting that shit to defend his dismissal of the necessity of feminism in the west and the legitimacy of women being pissed by having a ridiculous orange misogynist as their President and was a bit surprised you'd let it slide. Some of the discussion in this thread has been pretty shit - take the ridiculous and petty argument above for example.
that's where your wrong he has no intention of making a serious intellectual point about anything he said. He's a conspiracy theorist he's not really left or right wing, he just currently sees the current establishment as being left wing. The same people accusing george W bush of being in on 9/11 were the same ones claiming Obama was not really born in America. So when you address his concerns or whatever he brings up, your not really helping him, because he's really discussing a huge conspiracy that sounds too crazy for him to confess even to his closest friends. Your seeing the tip of the iceberg, your not doing anything but explaining why the moon landing really happened, or why there are no aliens on mars but your not addressing the fact... that you would have to believe in this insane world of government cover ups and UFO's and CIA brainwashing and jews controlling the banks, in the first place.

[(A)]

On the subject of why feminism is not "pointless" in the west.

First I want to say I am not supporting the source or the idea of state granted "rights" so dont bother; I am posting it simply as an example of how women are NOT treated equally in the west. Feminism isn’t about equality tho; it’s about deconstructing the standards by which you would measure “equality”: capital, power & hierarchy.


A delegation of human rights experts from Poland, the United Kingdom and Costa Rica spent 10 days this month touring the United States so they can prepare a report on the nation’s overall treatment of women. The three women, who lead a United Nations working group on discrimination against women, visited Alabama, Texas and Oregon to evaluate a wide range of U.S. policies and attitudes, as well as school, health and prison systems.

The delegates were appalled by the lack of gender equality in America. They found the U.S. to be lagging far behind international human rights standards in a number of areas, including its 23 percent gender pay gap, maternity leave, affordable child care and the treatment of female migrants in detention centers.

The most telling moment of the trip, the women told reporters on Friday, was when they visited an abortion clinic in Alabama and experienced the hostile political climate around women’s reproductive rights.

“We were harassed. There were two vigilante men waiting to insult us,” said Frances Raday, the delegate from the U.K. The men repeatedly shouted, “You’re murdering children!” at them as soon as they neared the clinic, even though Raday said they are clearly past childbearing age.

“It’s a kind of terrorism,” added Eleonora Zielinska, the delegate from Poland. “To us, it was shocking.”

In most European countries, she explained, abortions are performed at general doctors’ offices and hospitals that offer all kinds of other health services, so there aren’t protesters waiting to heckle the women who enter.

The women discovered during their visit that women in the United States have “missing rights” compared to the rest of the world. For instance, the U.S. is one of three countries in the world that does not guarantee women paid maternity leave, according to the U.N. International Labour Organization. The U.N. suggests that countries guarantee at least 14 weeks of paid parental leave. Some countries go further — Iceland requires five months paid leave for each parent, and an additional two months to be shared between them.

“The lack of accommodation in the workplace to women’s pregnancy, birth and post-natal needs is shocking,” Raday said. “Unthinkable in any society, and certainly one of the richest societies in the world.”

Another main area of concern for the delegation is violence against women — particularly gun violence. Women are 11 times more likely to be killed by a gun in the United States than in other high-income countries, and most of those murders are perpetrated by an intimate partner. While the Obama administration has talked a lot about combatting violence against women, its efforts have been frustrated by Congress’ inability to pass new federal gun restrictions.


“Some states have introduced gun control laws regarding domestic violence, refusing to give perpetrators of domestic violence the right to possess firearms,” Raday said. “This should be a national policy, not an isolated state policy.”

While federal law prohibits those convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse from purchasing a gun, it does not require them to surrender the guns they already own. Further, the law does not include domestic abusers who are not married to or co-habitating with their victims, and it does not include people with temporary restraining orders issued against them for domestic violence.



The women’s other recommendations for the U.S. include passing campaign finance reform that would allow more women to be elected into office, because the networks that raise money for political candidates are mostly dominated by men. They also suggested raising the minimum wage, which disproportionately affects women, and passing a federal law to stop the slew of new abortion restrictions in the states that are shutting down women’s health clinics across the South.

“Religious freedom does not justify discrimination against women, nor does it justify depriving women of their rights to the highest standard of health care,” Raday said.

While the delegates were shocked by many things they saw in the U.S., perhaps the biggest surprise of their trip, they said, was learning that women in the country don’t seem to know what they’re missing.

“So many people really believe that U.S. women are way better off with respect to rights than any woman in the world,” Raday said. “They would say, ‘Prove it! What do you mean other people have paid maternity leave?’”

The U.N. experts concluded their trip by meeting with the White House and numerous government agencies, including the Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Justice, to lay out their recommendations. They plan to present the full report to the U.N. Human Rights Council in June 2016.


It is very very clear that Feminism is needed in the west and more importantly; is absolutely necessary for revolution. There is no revolution without women's liberation everywhere.

[comrada]

there are too many men on this forum it's becoming repulsive.

[ckaihatsu]

there are too many men on this forum it's becoming repulsive.





The Following User Says Thank You to comrada For This Useful Post:

GiantMonkeyMan


Don't you mean 'GiantMonkey-*Woman*' -- ??


= D