What political Party

[Raul Castro]

What is your political party that you are a member of and say why you joined it.

Me, Socialist Workers Party (USA) I joined because they don't call the working class dumb for voting for Trump, they support Castro, and they aren't SJws that are easily offended

[Gavrilo93]

None. There are no genuine left side parties in Hungary.

/vb/threads/196507-The-current-situation-of-the-left-side-in-Hungary

[Abdullah Tshabal]

The South African Communist Party (SACP). The entire political spectrum in South Africa is completely out to lunch and is overdue for a twat fumigation. It is one of the few parties that 1) has a sizeable support base and 2) is better in touch than the rest of the jokers combined. It is also one of the few parties that spearhead support for Palestine in the nation and is also one of the few that oppose the idea of black nationalism and the anti-white sentiment that has been lingering for some time. As for the others, well:

1. The Democratic Alliance (DA) - They are called the "Capitalist Crusaders". That alone is enough to leave a lot of people with a taste of shit in their mouth. But don't worry, it gets better. The DA is also actively seeking to constrict Palestinian support, consider R753 ZAR/month food allowance as more than enough to feed a family of 5 and have even claimed it is excessive. <- Said by a person who spends their nights in fancy R10,000 ZAR/night luxury hotels (Wow, my laptop wasn't even a fucking R10,000 and it lasted me for well over 1 day). In actuality, a family of 5 needs a bare minimum of R1,150 ZAR a month or R2,250 ZAR to be adequately fed without having to make up the difference from their wages. The DA is also on Israel's payroll and has vocally supported and is even seeking to make business deals with the Apartheid State. In the past week alone, media in South Africa has been fraught with contempt against Mmusi Maimane, the head of the DA. If DA wins the 2019 elections, then well... Fuck.
2. The Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) - Increased paid maternity leave, R12,500/month minimum wage, nationalized banking and mining industry, possibility for 23-years overdue socialism in South Africa; What could go wrong? Oh wait, Julius Malema and his drones switching from the "Destroy Capitalism" to "Blame The Whites". Oh, and South Africa has a 94.3% literacy rate so yes, people CAN read it. No excuse. It's also obligatory that instead of marching up and down the Johannesburg CBD screaming "Blame The Whites", you instead read through the Constitution of South Africa. More specifically, Chapter 2 Bill of Rights, Part 9. I don't want those clowns running the show in 2019 either. I fucked up voting for them in 2014 :ohmy:.
3. African Christian Democratic Party (ACDP) - ...
The ACDP is a bunch of crooks who vocally support the Apartheid Regime of Israel, have their pockets lined by the Israeli Government and supposedly want to "make South Africa great again" <- And here I am shitting on that quote. The ACDP is also a right-wing party (which is immediately incompatible with South Africa at large) and has formed a coalition with the DA. Now, they are "socially conservative", which um, I do also hold certain "socially conservative" views. And the similarities end there prematurely. The party is also a "Christian Democratic" party, which I doubt would work too well. And last but not least, Kenneth Meshoe (the head of the ACDP) is a reactionary pro-Apartheid kiss-arse to Israel scumbag. He's also already managed to flap his gums and spew out a fair amount of anti-Muslim rhetoric. Like a few others, Kenneth Meshoe has also gone on several trips to Israel and it's "settlements", directly against the national policy.
4. Workers and Socialists Party (WASP) - These guys might not actually be too bad, all things considered. However, they are a rather meager party in relation to others and I am unable to find any of their viewpoints regarding religion. Tread lightly.
5. African National Congress (ANC) - Did you know that "ANC" makes up part of the word "cANCer"? The former liberators are now sellouts and have caused South Africa to fall into a nosedive. One can write a PhD Dissertation titled, "The Big Book of ANC's Fuckery" with few issues. It might however, cost a crapton to print out all the pages though. Where do I start? Initially, the ANC wasn't "as bad" as it is now. They had Mandela and Mbeki who actually revitalized South Africa's economy (obviously dicking over much of the populace), narrowly survived the 2008 crisis and brought it as one among other "industrialized" nations. The ANC is also supposedly, a supporter of Palestine and has dictated fair amount of sway towards it. And the pleasantries end there. The ANC had sold themselves and the country out to the interest of the capitalist class and the rest of South Africa gets the shit end of the deal in more ways than one. Poverty, crime, unemployment, civil unrest, etc. have run rampant with little effort on the ANC's part to mitigate it and more urgently even, the ANC has seemingly made no effort at all to fully supply the nation with desalinated water and to avert a water crisis which is due in less than a decade. They also largely fail to uphold the Constitution it is meant to abide by. The ANC has also become complacent with regards to Israel, oblivious to the fact that Israel's Apartheid Escapades have also directly put the lives of South Africans in danger, even at home. It is just brushed off. Israeli spies have bugged the airport that is shared by Johannesburg and Pretoria, bringing the hassle of racial profiling all the way home, and of course, also ignoring the fact that airport profiling is forbidden under South African federal law, by anyone. These spies also go through people's phones, computers, documents (Probably steal a few too), luggage and walk around with concealed Uzis, using the El Al (Israeli Airways) as a conduit. Yet, the occasional plane with the Israeli flag on it's tail, can be found parked at a terminal, exchanging passengers. The government of Israel has also made threats that DEFINETELY should never be taken lightly, to South Africa solely due to the BDS movement continuing unabated in the country. Among the threats include military/terrorist action, the destruction of finances and disruptions of electric/telecommunications infrastructure (On the flip side, the Israeli military are nothing but cowards and wouldn't actually engage anyone who has even the slightest capacity to shoot back). Even Jacob Zuma himself has stated that the South African government has become too complacent towards Israel and has not entirely proven it's loyalty to Palestine. And onto Zuma. Since his presidency in 2014, he's reversed the economic progress of South Africa and instead brought it to a nosedive. In fact, the vast majority of statistics of south Africa and progressively worse results seem to coincide with Zuma's presidency. He's looking to push an arse-clenching R3 TRILLION ZAR nuclear deal with Russia, which not only will cause a lasting debt towards Russia, but will also essentially implode the country's economy. His primary concern during a drought is to drop R4 Billion ZAR on a fancy luxury jet (R4 Billion ZAR is enough to build a desalination facility capable of providing the city of Nelson Mandela Bay with clean water all on its own). He also dipped into the country's tax revenues and stole R240 Million ZAR in order to build his fuck-off estate in the town of Nkandla, a town of no more than 3,000 people. most of who live below the poverty level. As opposed to building a piping system, electricity and a modern medical facility. There's a reason why the term "Zuma is a ****" has begun to resonate in South Africa with great frequency and why many want to see him overthrown or better, straight-up impeached. Lastly, the ANC blames all of it's fuck-ups because "Apartheid didn't let us". You mean in since 1994 to present times, an era called Post-Apartheid for a reason, you couldn't manage your country? Its little more than crocodile tears to cover up the ANC mostly with their knob in one hand and bribe money in the other for the past 23 years. Now South Africa is an industrialized county, meaning it's 100% capable of building more efficient, modern and improved structures, but it's all squandered. Oh, and the Tripartite Alliance is a joke. Why are the COSATU and SACP saddled with the ANC? They have conflicting views and the alliance doesn't really work anymore. Unfortunately, if I were to vote for the SACP in 2019, the ANC would take my vote.

Oh, and as a closing,
Sisa Ngombane (South African Ambassador to Israel) is also a reactionary scumbag who endorses the Apartheid in Israel and blames Palestinians for the entire struggle. He's also a disgrace to the South African Flag and it's values which he is supposed to represent.

Arthur Lenk (Israeli Ambassador to South Africa) is ALSO a pro-Apartheid reactionary scumbag who should pack his bags, get on a plane and piss off.

Pardon the long length. Enjoy the read. It's the length of a college essay, if formatted properly. 4 and a quarter pages.

TL;DR = Apparently the only groups that are fit to rule South Africa are socialist parties and the rest of them are reactionary bellends.

[Ale Brider]

Same as Gavrilo93.

(But I guess since I reject parties as a method of organizing, it's irrelevant anyway.)

[The Idler]

SPGB because they are against reform and want a social revolution with genuine emancipation not an insurrection as with most classical decent socialist parties.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

What is your political party that you are a member of and say why you joined it.

Me, Socialist Workers Party (USA) I joined because they don't call the working class dumb for voting for Trump, they support Castro, and they aren't SJws that are easily offended
I personally don't think you should utilise terms like 'SJW'. It strikes me largely as a pejorative term that the right wing has adopted to dismiss any criticisms of liberal capitalist culture and society. I mean, since when has fighting for social justice been considered a negative thing? I get that there are some people on the broad left with some pretty weak politics along with some thin skins unable to counter criticism but generally the people the right wing have collectively labelled 'SJWs' are those pointing out the systemic racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia of capitalist society and, even if they haven't developed a marxist understanding of the world, there is absolutely no reason to dismiss them like the right wing does.

As for political parties, I'm not actually a member of one right now although I used to be a member of the Committee for a Workers' International. I've got two jobs with night shifts, a non-existent sleeping pattern and I enjoy video games too much. I'm still pretty close with the CWI and I general feel that the members of that party, at least in my area, are solid individuals but I have a few disagreements with some of the ways things are done and frankly don't have the time or motivation for it all at the moment.

[Babeufist]

I am afraid most of the forum members are Facebook warriors who are not engaged in real activity.
I was member of the Polish Socialist Workers Party (PSPR) led by comrade Bogdan Radomski, unfortunately this party is defunct now.
There is no real left-wing force in Poland. There are only some extra-parliamentary parties here:
1/ SLD (Alliance of the Democratic Left) of Wlodzimierz Czarzasty (ca. 5 %) - post-communist social-democrats. Class traitors
2/ Razem (Together) of Adrian Zandberg (ca. 2-3 %) - anti-communist social-democrats. In fact, class traitors too
3/ KPP (Communist Party of Poland) of Marcin Adam - small Stalinist group
4/ RSS (Movement of Social Justice) of Piotr Ikonowicz - small left-populist group
5/ Zmiana (The Change) of Tomasz Jankowski - small left-nationalist group (they collaborate with the KPP)
6/ several microscopic Trotskyist sects like Pracownicza Demokracja (Labour Democracy)

[TomLeftist]

I like the news website and the political program of The Socialist Equal Party of U.S. http://www.wsws.org/ http://www.sep2016.com/program/ But I don't know yet if that party is good or not. The moderators, and leaders of that party have a sort of vertical-top down authoritarianism, anti-freedom of expression mentality. You know marxism, socialism is great, but the problem I see is marxists, socialists, and socialist parties. That with their elitist behaviour give a bad reputation to the socialism, communism, marxism ideology. There is a lot of anti-democratic behaviour as well in maoist parties.

That's why I've been trying to look toward left-communism options, toward more anarchistic communist options. I think that at the end of the day, most maoist, trotskist, maxists, marxist-leninist parties are really reformists, social-democrats and it is very very hard to find a party that would follow marxism 100%


None. There are no genuine left side parties in Hungary.

/vb/threads/196507-The-current-situation-of-the-left-side-in-Hungary

[TomLeftist]

Yeah this world is doomed, there are many marxist parties with great political programs, but when you join them, you get treated like human trash by their administrators and leaders, and that kills the motivation for new people to join radical marxist parties. Facebook is a total depression and total frustration for leftists who are very far to the left, close to orthodox marxism. Most people of Facebook who claim that they are leftists are too far to the center-left. They support Berny Sanders, The Green Party, even Donald Trump.

Many countries, specially poor countries do not have marxist parties and even in many states of USA there a not marxist parties, the most leftist parties in many states of US is the Green Party and Bernie Sanders. And the behaviour of workers and poor oppressed is not much motivating toward marxist activism. You will business as usual in the 2020 elections (the masses will be forced to choose between Marco Rubio and Michelle Obama, then in 2024 Invaka Trump and Chelsea Clinton and in 2028 Lady Gaga, and some progressive Republican Party celebrity, and the masses will have the same behaviour pattern, all glued and addicted to their smart cell mobile phones (as a tool to evade any social contact, any communication with other poor people, renting Netflix movies at Walmart movie machines,



I am afraid most of the forum members are Facebook warriors who are not engaged in real activity.
I was member of the Polish Socialist Workers Party (PSPR) led by comrade Bogdan Radomski, unfortunately this party is defunct now.
There is no real left-wing force in Poland. There are only some extra-parliamentary parties here:
1/ SLD (Alliance of the Democratic Left) of Wlodzimierz Czarzasty (ca. 5 %) - post-communist social-democrats. Class traitors
2/ Razem (Together) of Adrian Zandberg (ca. 2-3 %) - anti-communist social-democrats. In fact, class traitors too
3/ KPP (Communist Party of Poland) of Marcin Adam - small Stalinist group
4/ RSS (Movement of Social Justice) of Piotr Ikonowicz - small left-populist group
5/ Zmiana (The Change) of Tomasz Jankowski - small left-nationalist group (they collaborate with the KPP)
6/ several microscopic Trotskyist sects like Pracownicza Demokracja (Labour Democracy)

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I vote/am a member of the animals party. There is a 'socialist' party who are basically social democrats. At least with the party for the animals I can give fulfillment to one part of my ideology while still supporting a leftist party.

[(A)]

The change of rulers is the joy of fools. Any communist/anarchist should easily recognize the futility of the political system and outright dismiss political authority as a form of social oppression that can not co-exist in any way with communism which by its very definition is against political authority (statism).

[GiantMonkeyMan]

The change of rulers is the joy of fools. Any communist/anarchist should easily recognize the futility of the political system and outright dismiss political authority as a form of social oppression that can not co-exist in any way with communism which by its very definition is against political authority (statism).
This always seems like an asinine position to me. A large minority of people don't vote and don't engage with the capitalist political system but if it were as easy as boycotting, the whole thing would have crumbled years ago. A lot about our lives and the limits of our potential for political action is determined by the arbitrary laws laid out by the current political system. Without engaging with it, exposing its flaws and weakening the hold the capitalist class has over political discourse, we are limited in what we can achieve. Do you think that, for example, Uber drivers shouldn't engage with political authority in order to ensure they receive the basic workers rights that they deserve because it's a form of social oppression? Because those workers aren't going to be able to improve their lives by ignoring the very real fact that we live in a class society, the state exists and things won't magically improve by ignoring it. Whilst there exists a class society with a political system bound within all the inherent contradictions, communists should engage with every aspect of political discourse, including bourgeois parliament and bourgeois courts.

Besides all that, I feel you shouldn't conflate 'political authority' and 'the state' although in class society they are certainly interlinked. Think about a post-class society, how would anything get planned, those plans enforced, targets checked and assessed? We would engage in political discussion clearly and the results of that political discussion would have to be upheld or else it would be vacuous and pointless. Obviously in a post-class society the realm of politics would expand from a select few beholden to their financial backers to the entirety of the human race but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't still engage in politics and we very likely would still need authority in order to ensure that political decisions are still maintained. It wouldn't be 'social oppression' to try and ensure that the planning and organisation of society will be as efficient as possible and beholden to the decisions that we as a whole were making.

[(A)]

I never said anything about boycotting.

I said that the political system at its best is useless for any form of social change (Futile) but in actuality is a grease trap that collects the most corrupt people and grants them the power to unilaterally use violence against others in order to oppress society.

As Tolkien put it~

"the most improper job of any man is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity."

Do you think that if the U.S.S.R. was still around that Comrade Putin of the KGB would not be the leader (or in a top position) within the government?
How about all the other corrupt and reactionary officials/administratiors who came up working in the government of the U.S.S.R.

Putin or someone like him would still be in charge and Russia would look a lot more like "Soviet" china then what you imagine the U.S.S.R. to be like.

[(A)]

A lot about our lives and the limits of our potential for political action is determined by the arbitrary laws laid out by the current political system.

And you dont think that under a socialist state that A lot about our lives and the limits of our potential for political action would be determined by the arbitrary laws laid out by the socialist political system?
I suppose the U.S.S.R as well as Cuba, Yeman, China, North Korea and hundreds of other "socialist" states did Abolish wage labor, prisons and other arbitrary laws...

Oh wait no they did not they all still have/had wage labor, prisons and arbitrary laws to fill said prisons with free labor.
You forget wage & prison slavery in the U.S.S.R. existed and was all done for the benefit of the state and its administrators who live/lived like kings.


Uber drivers shouldn't engage with political authority in order to ensure they receive the basic workers rights that they deserve because it's a form of social oppression?

No uber drivers should quit because Uber sucks and lies to its drivers. What the Uber drivers should do is Unionize and seize uber from its owners so that they can run it themselves... you know socialism.
The political system can not help uber drivers seize uber and run it themselves. Even under a "socialist" state Uber would not have been under worker control but under state control as the workers would be bound to the oppressive laws of the state and most likely would simply become wage slaves to the state.


Think about a post-class society

Apparently I am the only one doing so because your idea of a "post-class society[" is one where their are planners with political authority to use violence to enact their plans and the people who must abide those plans or become victims of state sponsored terrorism. In your "Classless" society are their cops? Because like the samurai class of Feudal Japan those who enforce the rules are granted special status in society and become a functionary class into themselves. You ever notice how cops tend to Unionize? that's because they recognize and act within their class interest.

Any form of political authority IS CLASS. One group of people having powers/rights that others do not.

As long as their is political authority their can be no social equality and no Communism. Every state, every polity (political boundary), every cop and every politician must be Abolished before communism is a possibility.

[TomLeftist]

I agree totally with you. Many great thinkers have claimed that animals are friendlier and more loving than humans



I vote/am a member of the animals party. There is a 'socialist' party who are basically social democrats. At least with the party for the animals I can give fulfillment to one part of my ideology while still supporting a leftist party.

[IbelieveInanarchy]

I agree totally with you. Many great thinkers have claimed that animals are friendlier and more loving than humans Very true, although I would not try to cuddle a lion...

http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-a-mind-of-the-calibre-of-mine-cannot-derive-its-nutriment-from-cows-george-bernard-shaw-302044.jpg

[TomLeftist]

You are right, all leftists, all marxist, all socialists, all communists political parties are like mini soft dictatorships, in which the moment you join, you get treated like a slave by the top leaders of the parties. They can be the best marxists, the best intellectuals, the best students of marxism, but since humans tend to be egocentric, full of vanity, with lack of love, with lack of humility, full of unchecked appetites, unfulfilled hungers. It is almost impossible for leaders and owners of most radical ultra-leftist parties to treat their own members, the new members, and people with love and humility. And if they do rise to government power, once they are in power it is like 99% possibility that they will apply a social-democratic political program (if they are humble and nice), and many others who are not very honests go further and get into corruption like the Oderbretch corruption scandal that destroyed Dilma Rousseuf, Lula Dassilva and many other social-democrat presidents of Latin America and The Caribbean.

I have a theory that marxism, socialism, communism is like christianity and Jesus. Christianity and Jesus are good, the evil ones are the christians. And marxism, socialism and communism are good, the evil ones are the marxists, the socialists and the communists. So we can jump to the conclusion that anarchists are correct in that the only way to see a world of freedom is a world without human governments. Because marxism, socialism, communism is good, but human marxists, human socialists and human communists tend to be egocentric



The change of rulers is the joy of fools. Any communist/anarchist should easily recognize the futility of the political system and outright dismiss political authority as a form of social oppression that can not co-exist in any way with communism which by its very definition is against political authority (statism).

[(A)]

Anarchism works only because humans are not "evil". Our ability to work together and organize is abundantly clear; communism is predicated on the idea that the community/society can best operate on the basis of Mutual aid and benefit. We evolved as animals that are able work together cooperatively for our communal gain; the society of free people that does so is communism.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution

(https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution)

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I never said anything about boycotting.
That's just a logical extrapolation from 'not engaging in bourgeois parliament' - as a strategy it basically can be summed up as boycotting the vote.


I said that the political system at its best is useless for any form of social change (Futile) but in actuality is a grease trap that collects the most corrupt people and grants them the power to unilaterally use violence against others in order to oppress society.
The general idea of a communist revolution is that the working class has to overcome the capitalist class. The working class has to suppress capitalism using force because the capitalist class won't willingly give up their positions of privilege. Political change has never come from ideas but from action - thus, once the working class has thrown the capitalist class from their pedestals there still exists the need to destroy the last vestiges of capitalism and the last elements of class society because it's not all going to go away with the wave of a hand. This will be the working class using its political authority to suppress the capitalist class and their allies.

But that's neither here nor there. We don't live in a revolutionary period and the vast multitudes of working people in the world do not have revolutionary mindsets. You only distance yourself from the working class by 'boycotting' or dismissing the political systems that exist all around us. You will remain on the fringe of nothingness if you do not engage with workers at the levels they occupy and sometimes that will include bourgeois parliaments. Everyone who has a brain knows that politicians are corrupt liars but without exposing that concept as a reality nothing can be done to aid smashing that aspect of the state.


As Tolkien put it~
I think quoting Tolkein of all people shows the levels of your political acumen. But whatever, taking that quote for what it is... I would say that to imagine a society where there wouldn't emerge individuals who excel at their given tasks, who are charismatic and are quick to find solutions to problems that others agree to would be an utter fantasy almost worthy of Tolkein himself if the man weren't obsessed with the sagas of anglo-saxon nobility. Capitalist society is a class society and so obviously this is reflected in the way things are organised including in the political sphere. However, that doesn't mean that leadership is not necessary, only that it must be open and democratically mandated and that it must be rigorously beholden to the people involved in said democratic process.

Is the democratic process of bourgeois parliament open, fair and representative? Not at all. However, if the aim of revolutionaries seeking office is to wield power within a bourgeois framework then they are absolutely doing it all wrong. Revolutionaries engage with bourgeois parliament to disrupt the centre of bourgeois power and do everything they can to support and defend the broader movement for socialism. The aim isn't to get to office, the aim is socialism - engaging in bourgeois parliament is just one of many tactics revolutionaries should be willing to utilise to destroy the effectiveness of the capitalist class to destroy the working class movement and to eventually assist in the dissolution of the state in its entirety. Why else would the CNT-FAI join the Republican government?


Do you think that if the U.S.S.R. was still around that Comrade Putin of the KGB would not be the leader (or in a top position) within the government?
How about all the other corrupt and reactionary officials/administratiors who came up working in the government of the U.S.S.R.

Putin or someone like him would still be in charge and Russia would look a lot more like "Soviet" china then what you imagine the U.S.S.R. to be like.
I'm really unsure about this part of your post. What the fuck has this got to do with the crux of my argument? I couldn't give less of a shit about Putin and I'm not some tankie with rose-tinted glasses in regards to the Soviet Union.


And you dont think that under a socialist state that A lot about our lives and the limits of our potential for political action would be determined by the arbitrary laws laid out by the socialist political system?
I suppose the U.S.S.R as well as Cuba, Yeman, China, North Korea and hundreds of other "socialist" states did Abolish wage labor, prisons and other arbitrary laws...

Oh wait no they did not they all still have/had wage labor, prisons and arbitrary laws to fill said prisons with free labor.
You forget wage & prison slavery in the U.S.S.R. existed and was all done for the benefit of the state and its administrators who live/lived like kings.
I struggled to form a response to this section because it is as if you think the culmination of my political understanding is reading a book about the gulag system and thinking 'wow, this is clearly socialism in action!' or some inane shit. It's honestly just petty nonsense.

When the working class seized power in the form of the soviets, they did so as part of something called the 'Soviet Alliance' mainly made up of the Bolsheviks and the Left-Socialist Revolutionaries but those weren't the only groups or individuals involved in the struggle. The anarcho-syndicalist grouping 'Golos Truda' which was formed in part by the likes of Voline joined the soviets, Bill Shatov an anarchist worker was integral to the organisation of the Petrograd Red Guard etc. The move to seize power didn't come out of nowhere - there was a conflict between the soviets, which represented ordinary workers, and the provisional government, which was acting in the interest of the bourgeois liberals. There was a revolutionary zeal the likes which has never again been repeated.

However, those engaged in the revolution knew that it couldn't simply succeed by hoping for the best. Shit had to get done, Whites were braying for blood and all the powers of the capitalist world were knocking. All the workers involved in the revolution knew that their success lay not on whether or not they could immediately establish a utopia but on whether or not they could hold out until the expected revolutions in Germany, France and the UK could topple the capitalist powers and the working class would be united across borders. This didn't happen and the German revolution died along with the Spartacists. In the chaos of the Civil War, the famine that was hitting everyone (including such 'Kings' like Yakov Sverdlov who died of illness and the nephew of Zinoviev who died of starvation), internal discord that saw assassinations, bombings and sabotage, the Bolsheviks started taking steps to defend what they had and many of those steps laid the groundwork for Stalinism, it's true.

As Victor Serge said: “It is often said that ‘the germ of all Stalinism was in Bolshevism at its beginning.’ Well, I have no objection. Only, Bolshevism also contained many other germs—a mass of other germs—and those who lived through the enthusiasm of the first years of the first victorious revolution ought not to forget it.”


No uber drivers should quit because Uber sucks and lies to its drivers.
Fantastic advice.... real quality.


What the Uber drivers should do is Unionize and seize uber from its owners so that they can run it themselves... you know socialism. The political system can not help uber drivers seize uber and run it themselves. Even under a "socialist" state Uber would not have been under worker control but under state control as the workers would be bound to the oppressive laws of the state and most likely would simply become wage slaves to the state.
The political system within capitalism is designed to inhibit any attempts by workers from seizing control of their workplaces, this is true. So why make it easy for them? Engaging in the political sphere is absolutely necessary for workers who are looking to turn their workplaces into co-operatives (which, by the way, are not socialism). Take the factory movement in Argentina from which the famous FaSinPat came into existence: do you think that those workers who seized their factories could afford not to engage with the political process? They did everything they could to defend their gains, including influencing bourgeois parliament and engaging with bourgeois courts. Revolutionaries engaging with bourgeois parliament should do everything in their power to prevent the bourgeoisie from acting to snuff out the workers movement and defend their gains.


Apparently I am the only one doing so because your idea of a "post-class society[" is one where their are planners with political authority to use violence to enact their plans and the people who must abide those plans or become victims of state sponsored terrorism. In your "Classless" society are their cops? Because like the samurai class of Feudal Japan those who enforce the rules are granted special status in society and become a functionary class into themselves. You ever notice how cops tend to Unionize? that's because they recognize and act within their class interest.
What on earth are you talking about here? Feudal japan? Cops? Did you even read what I was writing? Look, in order for society to function, shit needs to get done. Sometimes that involved coming up with a plan and sticking with it. Just because you cannot imagine a planning process that doesn't involve some shadowy cabal pulling the strings and sending in the riot police if anyone disagrees doesn't mean I can't imagine and work towards a society that is developed collectively, planned efficiently and organised rationally.


Any form of political authority IS CLASS. One group of people having powers/rights that others do not.
'Political authority' is simply political decisions being enforced. In a class society, this is the evidence by the political authority of the ruling class being enforced upon the masses. In a classless society, 'political authority' is simply the plans that people have collectively and democratically made being adhered to in order for society to function.


As long as their is political authority their can be no social equality and no Communism. Every state, every polity (political boundary), every cop and every politician must be Abolished before communism is a possibility.
I also want the state in its entirety to wither away, I just don't have a fantasy devoid of any engagement in the realities that people face. Say you have community of people who really want to build a hydro-electric dam. They really want to move away from coal fire plants because they really care about the environment. Fantastic, right? But it turns out the dam prevents the proper irrigation for the crops grown by community B. Any sort of society, in order for it to function, needs some collective organisation. Part of organisation is the realisation that just because something might be awesome for one group of people doesn't mean it'd be fantastic for everyone and there is a need to plan and enforce those plans accordingly. It might be as simple as saying 'build wind farms instead' but it still needs to exist and people still need to accept those decisions. To me, this is the political authority of the collective democratic decision making being enforced.

[Raul Castro]

Same as Gavrilo93.

(But I guess since I reject parties as a method of organizing, it's irrelevant anyway.) join a party no excuses

[RainbowRevolution]

I'm not altogether too picky. In all honesty I get along most with Socialist and Communist parties, and want to see them supported. Overall, I'd tend to vote New Democratic Party (NDP). With that said, if I could vote for any political party without fearing it wouldn't matter...it'd definitely be the Communist Party (CPC) that I'd vote for.

[Raul Castro]

I am afraid most of the forum members are Facebook warriors who are not engaged in real activity.
I was member of the Polish Socialist Workers Party (PSPR) led by comrade Bogdan Radomski, unfortunately this party is defunct now.
There is no real left-wing force in Poland. There are only some extra-parliamentary parties here:
1/ SLD (Alliance of the Democratic Left) of Wlodzimierz Czarzasty (ca. 5 %) - post-communist social-democrats. Class traitors
2/ Razem (Together) of Adrian Zandberg (ca. 2-3 %) - anti-communist social-democrats. In fact, class traitors too
3/ KPP (Communist Party of Poland) of Marcin Adam - small Stalinist group
4/ RSS (Movement of Social Justice) of Piotr Ikonowicz - small left-populist group
5/ Zmiana (The Change) of Tomasz Jankowski - small left-nationalist group (they collaborate with the KPP)
6/ several microscopic Trotskyist sects like Pracownicza Demokracja (Labour Democracy)
I am pro trotsky myself, but if they are no other options I say work with the small group of stalinists but that is just me hopefully a left wing movement arrives there because that fascist party seems to be gaining traction i forgot what it is called but it has a really weird symbol or something......

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dude all communist parties follow marxism 100%, if you are trying to make a political statement idk but trust me they are all marxists

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The change of rulers is the joy of fools. Any communist/anarchist should easily recognize the futility of the political system and outright dismiss political authority as a form of social oppression that can not co-exist in any way with communism which by its very definition is against political authority (statism).

Go away anarchist! I was asking people who are actually realistic and understand forwarding the struggle in america is needed by political parties