Bernie Sanders Urges Booing Supporters to Embrace Hillary Clinton

[untitled]

Include me among those who will not vote for Clinton. I'm a life long Democrat and no longer tolerate the corporate centrism of the DNC.

[Antiochus]

I'm a life long Democrat and no longer tolerate the corporate centrism of the DNC.

Because apparently they weren't "corporate centrists" 20, 30 or 60 years ago.

[SonofRage]

Because apparently they weren't "corporate centrists" 20, 30 or 60 years ago.
This is how we win people over. Criticize them when they finally are on our side.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Radical Atom]

While the passive aggressive one-liner without further explanation is unnecessary (I do know where he comes from though), shouldn't we criticize people when they are terribly wrong? I mean, the cold war and contemporary history of the democrats makes whoever calls them them "centrists" to look like one's out of touch with reality. Just because they wear a "nicer" face doesn't make them "center" (which to tell the truth, to me "center" is just an euphemism for ultra right wing in some places, plain right wing in others), nor does it mean they aren't neoliberal warmongering imperialist profiteers who are bleeding dry the marginalized of both their own country and the nations they keep under their leash, Obama has done a "better" job as a "republican" than republicans themselves, hell even some conservatives talk about his presidency being like one of them. The only reason they are socially "progressive" in some token issues is because they see the people who demand it as "potential voters" and their paternalistic liberal views.
Gotta give him credit for him being a "life long democrat" and still not voting for Clinton, though. I guess we should look on the positive and see that this circumstance is a new one since before people would vote their Democrat overlord regardless, now people are being more critical (some north-american comrade correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall people refusing to vote Obama or Clinton husband when they didn't offer nothing new either and being professional smoke sellers). I think many, including myself, are just frustrated that the bar is set so low right now and it's hard to see the small victories or even see them as victories. Fuckin' cynicism, or is it pessimism, is getting to us all, man. :(

[GLF]

The unfortunate truth is that things have shifted so far to the right the last few decades that modern "centrism" is a joke. In America there is no left wing and in Europe it's been crippled severely. The good news is that young people are beginning to have a positive view of socialism but we still have a very, very long way to go because even the most "left-wing" American politician has no intention of challenging the capitalist system. The adamantly defend private property and the rights of inheritance. Even people on revleft have become apologists for the centre-left. Yes, things have shifted to the right that much.

What we need is the baby boomers to go away fast. And old white people. The demographic shifts are the number one reason for optimism because the imperialists soon won't have the numbers anymore and international capitalism will founder.

[Antiochus]

What we need is the baby boomers to go away fast. And old white people. The demographic shifts are the number one reason for optimism because the imperialists soon won't have the numbers anymore and international capitalism will founder.

God, this is the sort of anti-material, idealistic and absolutely idiotic world-view we do not need espoused. Really, are you sure that once the "baby-boomers" die off, Capitalism will flounder? I am shocked at how utterly naive people are. This "new generation will destroy Capitalism!!!" has been cited SINCE THE 1920s. And it is MORONIC. There is literally no evidence for it. In many ways there is evidence in the opposite direction. At least these baby-boomers that you are so keen on dying lived under a functioning welfare state that today is GONE.

[untitled]

Because apparently they weren't "corporate centrists" 20, 30 or 60 years ago.


Indeed. Hillary's husband started it.

[untitled]

While the passive aggressive one-liner without further explanation is unnecessary (I do know where he comes from though), shouldn't we criticize people when they are terribly wrong? I mean, the cold war and contemporary history of the democrats makes whoever calls them them "centrists" to look like one's out of touch with reality. Just because they wear a "nicer" face doesn't make them "center" (which to tell the truth, to me "center" is just an euphemism for ultra right wing in some places, plain right wing in others), nor does it mean they aren't neoliberal warmongering imperialist profiteers who are bleeding dry the marginalized of both their own country and the nations they keep under their leash, Obama has done a "better" job as a "republican" than republicans themselves, hell even some conservatives talk about his presidency being like one of them. The only reason they are socially "progressive" in some token issues is because they see the people who demand it as "potential voters" and their paternalistic liberal views.
Gotta give him credit for him being a "life long democrat" and still not voting for Clinton, though. I guess we should look on the positive and see that this circumstance is a new one since before people would vote their Democrat overlord regardless, now people are being more critical (some north-american comrade correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall people refusing to vote Obama or Clinton husband when they didn't offer nothing new either and being professional smoke sellers). I think many, including myself, are just frustrated that the bar is set so low right now and it's hard to see the small victories or even see them as victories. Fuckin' cynicism, or is it pessimism, is getting to us all, man. :(


Dumb people like you think everyone else is equally uneducated.

[Rafiq]

Antiochus is correct. The new generation of neo-fascists, who can be embodied by Peter Thiel in his recent RNC speech as well as Milo Yiannopoulos, will be far worse than even the most reactionary of the 'baby boomer' generation. I promise you all this.

The true threat is not Trump but the future that will follow his precadent. This is what we must concentrate our attention upon. The stupidity is thinking this is some last breath of the past. There is a whole new generation of neo-fascism unlike anything seen before. The left isn't prepared. It needs to be, or else we'll all die with Sanders.

Mark my words. The older generation are the least of our worries. The least.

[Antiochus]

Interesting thing: By chance of 'fate' if you will, I actually know one of the guys that works for that Milo scumbag. As in, one of his 'top' secretaries etc... He used to play a video game which I also played and I've actually seen him in several of Milo's videos.

The interesting thing is what embodies this new-reaction. Milo is a homosexual, almost 'meme-like' in a way because he embodies the kind of flagrant homosexuality that reactionaries despise. The guy I know who works for Milo is a rich, half-Pakistani and half-British student from Cambridge. The point is, trying to understand the neo-fascists by saying, "Well! The young people and the minorities will be on our side!!!" is a catastrophic mistake.

Location C's comment is idiotic, to say the least. The reason it is so bad is because of what it entails. I mean, old-white people dying, why? Because they are "more likely" to believe this or that? Does a statement like that not worry you? Black people are less likely to support gay rights than White people, would eyebrows be lifted if some comment about how Black people need to die off were made? Duh. The reaction at the present transcends age-boundaries and many racial ones too. That ISN'T TO SAY that a Mexican is more likely to vote for Trump, rather it means there is a ready-made way to include these people within the reaction EVEN IF the reaction is directly aligned against them.

This is fairly new. I mean, Hitler said Jews were parasites and scum, not much room to "incorporate" them. This however has already attracted fairly diverse elements, even if its true that its "mainly middle aged white-males".

[Recuperation]

What is the significance of boomers having lived under a 'functioning welfare state'? It was a weapon used against us and its decay is a silver lining. The younger generations will at least know that the state has nothing to offer them other than deceit and incarceration. I'm not convinced that the alt-right is any more capable of constituting itself outside of the internet than the far left is. Even your interactions with them seem to be limited to video games or social media... The recent street fights have all been with the same old usual suspects; KKK, Aryan Brotherhood, etc.

The spectacle of electoral politics is alive and well in America and the liberals are still able to jerk you all around with their hysterics like they do every cycle.

[Freeloader]

The true threat is not Trump but the future that will follow his precadent. This is what we must concentrate our attention upon. The stupidity is thinking this is some last breath of the past. There is a whole new generation of neo-fascism unlike anything seen before. The left isn't prepared...



I completely agree. And an interesting example is the ex-KKK member i believe who is running for senator via the surf that is Trump.

And i think it was Michael Moore who said Trump is like some dinosaur, this is a completely wrong assessment. It is the new conditions created from the ongoing capitalist crises that is creating support for trump and allowing fertile ground for racism, sexism and xenophobia to grow, with ideas of make america great again, saving the american dream apart of re-establishing capitalist prosperity at the expense of democratic, labour, and individual freedoms and rights. Or in a nutshell fascistic tendencies will come to force to save american capitalism from itself.

The left isn't prepared...but what is to be done ?

What are the possibilities of a left wing coalition force- a SYRIZA model- in America against the Republicans and Democrats.?

From the perspective across the pond (In Britain), American politics needs an independent labour party built from grassroots socialists and trade unionists and various other progressive forces, i.e. black lives matter. I know this has been attempted in the past more than once, but what alternative is there ?



And now that Bernie Sanders has thrown himself under the bus, where will his "bernie or bust" supporters go ?
@ Unititled - What and where next for you as bernie supporter ?

[Recuperation]

David Duke (the ex-kkk guy) has already held political office on a state level and ran as a presidential candidate a couple times on the 80s, he literally is a political dinosaur.

[Antiochus]

What is the significance of boomers having lived under a 'functioning welfare state'?

That under a "functioning welfare state" most of the modalities in politics (bourg. democracy, most of the tenants of the minimum programs etc...) were a GIVEN. Even the conservative parties did not bother to challenge these things. These were things that weren't "given" or simply "used against" the working class. These were things that were DEMANDED of the ruling elite and given as a CONCESSION. In case you don't understand, it is better to be given a concession (it means you are in a position of some power) than to be spat upon and told to fuck off.


I'm not convinced that the alt-right is any more capable of constituting itself outside of the internet than the far left is. Even your interactions with them seem to be limited to video games or social media...

Not really. I mentioned both because this is a game forum and actually being able to link these things is more powerful than simply relegating an anecdote about real life. The problem is, many of those "twitter memesters" ARE real people. There ARE people who embrace the scum from that twitter account, Cloyd Rivers or whatever and all his racist, imbecilic things. Nor is it some sort of fringe movement. There are many women today that openly support the anti-feminist sack of shit Milo. What is even more sinister now is that conservative and fascists are using the fact that this guy is gay as some sort of shield for his views.

[Recuperation]

The New Deal which I assume you are referring to was not a concession to working class power, it was the capitalist economy reconstituting itself after a catastrophic structural failure. In the same sense that if basic income were to be implemented today, it would be done for the purpose of propping up our own failing neo-liberal economy. Only delusion could lead one to believe that it would be a concession on the part of the state to the imaginary 'workers power' which exists as much today as it did ~100 years ago. That you believe the opposite only speaks to the power of the state and the weakness of radical analysis. False consciousness is false consciousness, even when you're getting shit you want. Aren't you one of the ones constantly griping about social democrats on this board? And here you are bemoaning the death the welfare state. Considering all the success the minimum programs have brought us, I'm ok with their departure. Lets not waste another century chasing our own tails. As for the rest, I'm as scared of the right-wing basement dwellers as the rest of the world is regarding our own left-wing basement dwellers.

[GLF]

...Location C's comment is idiotic, to say the least. The reason it is so bad is because of what it entails. I mean, old-white people dying, why? Because they are "more likely" to believe this or that? Does a statement like that not worry you? Black people are less likely to support gay rights than White people, would eyebrows be lifted if some comment about how Black people need to die off were made? Duh. The reaction at the present transcends age-boundaries and many racial ones too. That ISN'T TO SAY that a Mexican is more likely to vote for Trump, rather it means there is a ready-made way to include these people within the reaction EVEN IF the reaction is directly aligned against them.

This is fairly new. I mean, Hitler said Jews were parasites and scum, not much room to "incorporate" them. This however has already attracted fairly diverse elements, even if its true that its "mainly middle aged white-males".

I didn't mean to come across as being discriminatory. I don't group people into separate categories but they do that themselves, and it's mainly white males that present the single biggest resistance to worker's liberation. Of course I would never tolerate discrimination against anyone, including white males. While I acknowledge the severe handicaps women and people of color have to deal with, I see such things as a natural byproduct of the capitalist system, and I generally despise and disregard identity politics and other such provocations perpetuated mainly by the centre-left , and see it as a threat to working class solidarity among ALL ethnic groups. I just did a really poor job of expressing the point I was trying to make.

[Little Debbie]

Sanders is right, though. I'd rather deal with "corporate centrism" than with fascism. But I guess privileged people don't think there is a difference between the two, and so they don't care about throwing away their vote against Trump. It's disgusting, to put it mildly.

[Heretek]

Sanders is right, though. I'd rather deal with "corporate centrism" than with fascism. But I guess privileged people don't think there is a difference between the two, and so they don't care about throwing away their vote against Trump. It's disgusting, to put it mildly.

Poor little social democrat thinks their vote matters, how quaint. Please, you 'compromisers' and 'realists' are the most disgusting people on the planet. At least you can count on fascists to be fascists. But then again, when everything is on the line, I suppose we can count on people like you to give up because the 'going gets tough,' and you want to make sure 'a woman finally gets their due in the White House.'

We're privileged? We've been fighting against this shit longer than you've been alive. What, you think we're a bunch of fucking oligarchs or philosopher kings?? We're working people, and there is no compromise between our lives and destruction under 'democracy.' You may not care if we die in the trenches fighting for capital interests, but for us there is no contest: We Wish To Live. Privileged people like you think there is a difference, but you don't fucking realize working people will be oppressed by all of these candidates, even your fucking white knights of Sanders and Clinton. Shifting the oppression doesn't solve the problem, building up and enabling the system won't destroy the system.

It makes no difference because who cares who we're 'dying for?' Trump or Clinton? WE Don't Benefit from either! You truly have no problem 'making a difference' (a disgusting metaphor for doing nothing) by voting for the 'lesser' of two evils, for supporting corporatism? You must then, by deduction, support the bombing of other peoples across the world because it benefits the political and economic elites? For repressing dissent against social injustice, both domestic and abroad? For doing nothing as the supposedly 'democratic' Turkey purges its populace of 'undesirables' and repeals basic rights 'guaranteed by their constitution?'

Advocating nothing less than revolution, especially on this site, the site of the Revolutionary Left, is foolish. Enjoy 8 more years of horror, 8 more years of who gives a damn who's in office, 8 more years of avoiding eye contact with the homeless. It doesn't matter at all whether the 'enabler' is Trump or Clinton. And finally, your vote does not all matter. That would imply a democracy, and we don't want mob rule, now do we?

[Radical Atom]

Dumb people like you think everyone else is equally uneducated.
No, I just like to give people the benefit of the doubt and not be an entitled douchebag who assumes everyone grew up under the same circumstances, with the same opportunities, the same environment and background as me. I don't know who you are or where you come from, and since you yourself said "long life democrat" it could be expected that you're new to revolutionary politics and a (maybe left) liberal or someting like that.
People can be very intelligent and grow up in an ideological atmosphere that, for example, hinders his/her critical judgement in favor of superstition. And "very educated" people who had everything they needed can still be dumb as a rock. Also shame on you for implying that thinking that someone is uneducated is attack on said person, there's nothing wrong for a person being uneducated as long as they want to do something about it and learn.
Why so aggressive though? I don't think anything I've said warrants such vitriol, I was actually trying to give you credit since there's hundreds of Hillary shills and here much isn't expected from democrats, which are by and large liberals, who are not leftists. And given your attitude I think I should've known better. "Nice" seeing you.
Edit: If it's the low bar comment what struck a nerve I meant THE POLITICAL SITUATION, not your level of intelligence or anyone else's for that matter.

[macsrw]

It makes no difference because who cares who we're 'dying for?' Trump or Clinton? WE Don't Benefit from either! You truly have no problem 'making a difference' (a disgusting metaphor for doing nothing) by voting for the 'lesser' of two evils, for supporting corporatism? You must then, by deduction, support the bombing of other peoples across the world because it benefits the political and economic elites? For repressing dissent against social injustice, both domestic and abroad? For doing nothing as the supposedly 'democratic' Turkey purges its populace of 'undesirables' and repeals basic rights 'guaranteed by their constitution?'

It possibly makes little difference, but it possibly also makes quite a bit of difference. The key is what you believe of Trump. If you think he is just pandering to the fascistic sentiment of a worryingly large block of the American populace, but has little to no intention of actually acting on it, then the difference between Clinton and Trump is cosmetic. If you think, however, that Trump believes in what he is saying, or at least is willing to act on it, then there is a fairly large margin between the corporate Imperialist and the great big orange fascist. I am not saying that people should vote for Clinton, just that a Trump presidency could be a whole lot worse than what we have now, while a Clinton Presidency would be a slightly more hawkish, slightly more austerity-minded version of what we have now. And since Trump has seen to it that Godwin's Law is no longer a thing, I will say this: If you have the choice between the SDP and the NSDAP, do not pull a KPD and say that they are all basically the same; they weren't.

[Little Debbie]

Poor little social democrat thinks their vote matters, how quaint. Please, you 'compromisers' and 'realists' are the most disgusting people on the planet. At least you can count on fascists to be fascists. But then again, when everything is on the line, I suppose we can count on people like you to give up because the 'going gets tough,' and you want to make sure 'a woman finally gets their due in the White House.'

Reducing my political beliefs and their implementation in the current US election cycle to the notion that I simply want a woman, any woman, in the white house is appalling and, frankly, misogynistic.


We're privileged? We've been fighting against this shit longer than you've been alive. What, you think we're a bunch of fucking oligarchs or philosopher kings?? We're working people, and there is no compromise between our lives and destruction under 'democracy.' You may not care if we die in the trenches fighting for capital interests, but for us there is no contest: We Wish To Live. Privileged people like you think there is a difference, but you don't fucking realize working people will be oppressed by all of these candidates, even your fucking white knights of Sanders and Clinton. Shifting the oppression doesn't solve the problem, building up and enabling the system won't destroy the system.

Who are "we" that you refer to? And "you all" are not representative of working people just because "you" may be working class. You're sectarians who don't care about how much harsher fascism is from normal capitalism. More working people support getting behind lesser evilism for tactical reasons rather than being purists who think voting is a huge fucking evil if they might be able to make capitalism a bit less harsh for four yours.


It makes no difference because who cares who we're 'dying for?' Trump or Clinton? WE Don't Benefit from either! You truly have no problem 'making a difference' (a disgusting metaphor for doing nothing) by voting for the 'lesser' of two evils, for supporting corporatism? You must then, by deduction, support the bombing of other peoples across the world because it benefits the political and economic elites? For repressing dissent against social injustice, both domestic and abroad? For doing nothing as the supposedly 'democratic' Turkey purges its populace of 'undesirables' and repeals basic rights 'guaranteed by their constitution?'

There is no benefit from either, but there is less loss from one.


Advocating nothing less than revolution, especially on this site, the site of the Revolutionary Left, is foolish. Enjoy 8 more years of horror, 8 more years of who gives a damn who's in office, 8 more years of avoiding eye contact with the homeless. It doesn't matter at all whether the 'enabler' is Trump or Clinton. And finally, your vote does not all matter. That would imply a democracy, and we don't want mob rule, now do we?

I would support a revolution, but in the mean time I am fine with tactically voting for certain candidates in certain situations if there may be a chance of reducing the drawbacks of a fascist president.

[Cicero]

From the perspective across the pond (In Britain), American politics needs an independent labour party built from grassroots socialists and trade unionists and various other progressive forces, i.e. black lives matter. I know this has been attempted in the past more than once, but what alternative is there ?

I don't know if something like that would have any success in America, your system is too heavily controlled. We've had some recent successes here in the UK with taking back elements of the left wing movement from their steady drift into the right wing, but anyone following British politics will be under no illusions that the Right is battling tooth and nail to claw back control.

Corbyn only managed to get anywhere because of massive popular engagement and support. Bernie might've been useful for achieving that, but I think the system in America and the level of political engagement amongst the youth is just totally detrimental to achieving the same aims. You'd need sustained engagement in a variety of areas, or some method to penetrate the upper echelons of the DNC. I'm not extensively versed in how the DNC's inner workings function, but it strikes me that that would be an astoundingly tough task - all the moreso now that Bernie has bowed to the weight of their influence and endorsed one of the most corrupt Presidential hopefuls since Nixon.