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View Full Version : The UK Referendum on the European union (why im not voting...)



Freeloader
3rd June 2016, 14:44
[The following stems from a reply i made in opposing ideologies re: EU, and has not been permitted for some reason]

A "communist" position of pro-EU or anti-EU in the context of the current referendum for the UK to stay or leave is flawed. To look at the choice inverted is to vote for; Austerity Capitalist EU or Austerity Capitalist 'Independence'.

Jeremy Corbyn does not disappoint by what he says in his pro EU stance, but for what he is not saying. For not pointing out that the crises of the EU from Greece to Britain and Ukraine etc. flows from the current crises of capitalism. And that the only real solution to problems of austerity, immigration and more niche issues such as fish quotas etc, is a planned socialist economy and the abolition of capitalism.(Of course to what degree Corbyn is a socialist is another matter).

Being independent from the EU or remaining in the EU will not fundamentally protect, workers rights, or "human rights", or defend against TTIP etc. Only the active struggle of the working class and the rise in power of their organizations can defend against these things.

A "left wing" IN or OUT can only try to colour the bourgoise referendum a shade of red. Because ultimately the question of the Referendum is a bourgeois question brought to the table by them and for them. Its not just an accident that we see such a squabble in the conservative party, and that we have boris vs cameron as the faces of referendum.

The power of the British and European workers can and will overcome any legal and technical oppression placed upon them whether this is UK law or via EU regulations. After all the working class is the most powerful social force, a workers government armed with socialism is not simply going to bow to pre-existing convention, constitution or law.(So long as they are not betrayed by their own leadership).

The taking up of sides on the EU debate by socialists and by some trade unions in many ways reflects the current weakness and lack of confidence in the independent workers and socialist organizations. The result is a political landscape that is dominated by nationalism (in the case of Scotland) and now the EU question for the rest of the UK. The voice of a genuine alternative is muffled or whispered as an afterward.

The job of revolutionaries is not to put a left wing spin on the many manifestations of the bourgeoisie in their response to the current crises. Its our job to point out that these so called solutions are not solutions and to argue clearly and boldly for the fundamental transformation of society.


This being said a worker is not "wrong" to vote either for or against the EU. The vote will be cast as what they believe is in their best interests. Whereas the real truth of the vote is supporting a faction of the capitalist class to support their own interests.
There's nothing inherently clever or right with abstaining with a vote, but in this instance its seems the choice is simply " you are going to get kicked in your testicles, would you like for me to come at you from behind or the front?

LionofTepelenë
3rd June 2016, 22:42
I've tried to keep an eye on politics in the UK and in my opinion, the UK should stay in the EU. But this is because if the UK leaves the EU then that is ample opportunity for UKIP to gain massive following and fuck everything up. However there is the accelerationist asshole side of me that says that says that if UKIP does take power, than people who vote more moderate will be alienated and vote instead of Corbyn.

Freeloader
3rd June 2016, 23:56
I think its unclear what the political consequence will be of the UK staying or leaving. To take UKIP, if the UK leaves then perhaps UKIP will be seen as a more legitimate party and capitalize on the vote. But it is as equally possible that there vote will drop since it is believed that a large part of their vote is as protest especially in relation to the very EU issue. If UKIP does rise it will also split the conservative vote to some degree. Also a No vote could see UKIP rise , as the part of the population which is anti-EU see UKIP as the only alternative. Much like the SNP gaining members even though they lost the referendum on Scottish independence. Even if you have a UKIP vs. Corbyn election, there is a chance that labours policies will be watered down to reflect a perceived right shift, and or to ensure electibility in a defensive way against UKIP. Whatever the result the task regards the labour party are the same and that is defend the potential and criticise the regressive, i.e. push for socialist policies and against the blairites.

Thirsty Crow
29th June 2016, 00:59
Okay, this board has got two replies to a thread dealing with an event which could trigger the next European recession.

Not that I got much to add. Except for fuck lexit and fuck them hard.

bricolage
29th June 2016, 01:45
Lexit has gone to some next level of nonsense, john molyneux writing that street level racism is just a lie made up to detract from the epic working class revolt, tariq ali busting out mao about this being the time to seize something or other or start somethimng else of other... ignoring the fact mao was head of an army when he said that and tariq ali is barely head of a magazine...
Brexit has intensely emboldened the far right and the consequences of this have only just begun. A lexit position was admirable but wrong before hand, to keep it going now is just insanity. Not every crisis is an opportunity for the left and for the working class movement, this one certainly is not.

Thirsty Crow
29th June 2016, 01:58
Lexit has gone to some next level of nonsense, john molyneux writing that street level racism is just a lie made up to detract from the epic working class revolt, tariq ali busting out mao about this being the time to seize something or other or start somethimng else of other... ignoring the fact mao was head of an army when he said that and tariq ali is barely head of a magazine...
Brexit has intensely emboldened the far right and the consequences of this have only just begun. A lexit position was admirable but wrong before hand, to keep it going now is just insanity. Not every crisis is an opportunity for the left and for the working class movement, this one certainly is not.
The amount of insanity is enviable indeed.

Wonder how the recently reported chauvinist attacks are received in that quarter though.

wehbolno
29th June 2016, 02:04
Some people are saying that this is the 'authentic expression of the anger of the working class'. Is this correct? Of course it seems mad that a few trade agreements and trans-national laws could be the focus of such vitriol. Does this expression have a similar mechanism to the Trump momentum, is it a way of saying fuck off to the establishment at large, and if so is it driven by the same basic feeling of anger that drives a person towards marxism? Can the momentum be hijacked by leftists in such a way, or are many people irredeemably racist and conservative?

- - - Updated - - -

Or the question over at the Laclau thread being: is populism a step toward class struggle or a replacement for it?

Thirsty Crow
29th June 2016, 02:07
By some maths done by the Irish Workers' Solidarity Movement, only 52% of the overall - very narrowly conceived, manual workers and the unemployed - actually cast their vote.

So, no, this whole mess is far from anything authentic coming from the British working class. What has to be said, coming from the same poll WSM did their analysis on, is that a significant portion of the white, English working class seemingly thinks in terms of anti-immigration, racism, and little-fucking-England nationalism.

bricolage
30th June 2016, 03:47
As I alluded to this seems to be the Lexit response to massive upsurge in racist attacks:

https://twitter.com/_joshdavies/status/747863004516065280

Freeloader
30th June 2016, 13:05
As I alluded to this seems to be the Lexit response to massive upsurge in racist attacks:

https://twitter.com/_joshdavies/status/747863004516065280

This sentiment is naive and surprising from a veteran socialist.
Although he is correct that:

racist attacks are often ignored and downplayed on the whole



the media encourages and fosters xenophobia and racism.


He is completely wrong that the media are simply focusing on them now in an attempt to hide an anti-austerity agenda of Brexitiers.

The official argument for brexit was shaped on xenophobia, racism and nationalism. Which has always been promoted by the majority of media outlets. Now we have a minority who expect good things to come from British capitalism freed from the so called shackles of Europe. When austerity continues, jobs are still lost and insecure, and migrants are not deported on mass, we will see surges in ultra rightism. (In fact we have already seen this in the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox by a fascist).

Owen Jones,(labour left, and author) surprisingly made a good prediction of the situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FqAaD_lsRw

The idea that the progressive option was to vote remain, was and is incorrect. The situation was/is a catch-22. Your damned if your in and your damned if your out.

Rudolf
30th June 2016, 17:46
As I alluded to this seems to be the Lexit response to massive upsurge in racist attacks:

https://twitter.com/_joshdavies/status/747863004516065280

Oh for fucks sake.