The Android device you already own is your next desktop, portable PC [Archive]

ckaihatsu

30th April 2016, 15:49

Android smartphones are becoming very powerful devices, and many of them can easily handle the word-processing, photo editing and other desktop PC-type tasks. So why not make your Android smartphone double as a desktop PC? Here we show you how to install the Linux variant Debian on your Android device, on which you can then install popular programs like LibreOffice and GIMP. Best of all, you don't need to root your device to do this.

https://www.androidpit.com/turn-your-android-device-into-a-linux-pc-without-rooting

I'll add that this is really the best of both worlds -- the Android hardware and system can be quite zippy for everyday low-impact and start-and-stop things, like video and audio playback or pulling down webpages. Attaching any external input device, either with an OTG ('on-the-go') microUSB cable or via Bluetooth will give the user an immediate experience of fluidity over the regular Android interface / desktop, much like one experiences on any 'bare bones' type of Linux, utterly free of bloatware.

This fluidity and clean pass-through of the underlying processing power continues into the provided Debian Linux OS using the 'Debian noroot' app.

Also see its pages at Google Play and at GitHub.

Sea

7th July 2016, 22:45

A USB keyboard and mouse suck your batter down pretty fast. I did this for a while with an iMac keyboard (for the built-in hub) and USB mouse on my tablet when I didn't have a laptop. This doesn't work out very well unless you can use USB-OTG while charging and not many devices support this, but for something to be a decent desktop replacement it's pretty critical to have USB support that can be passed through to the guest like how it works in VirtualBox. Is this supported in that solution?

OpenOffice also has an Android version that doesn't require downloading a whole linux distro, and it fits in well to the rest of the Android environment. I know OOo is pretty much dead after LibreOffice took off, but it's my preference for doing basic document stuff on a droid since it's more compact. It's just as good for basic word processing.

ckaihatsu

8th July 2016, 15:14

A USB keyboard and mouse suck your batter down pretty fast.

Hmmmm, that doesn't sound accurate -- those devices are passive and would generally use far less power than Bluetooth speakers or a screen projector, etc.

I did this for a while with an iMac keyboard (for the built-in hub) and USB mouse on my tablet when I didn't have a laptop. This doesn't work out very well unless you can use USB-OTG while charging and not many devices support this,

If it's worth it for you you can always get an OTG passthrough-type cable:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FGKXY9S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00CXAC1ZW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=QN61H079MTY44KH7N24R

but for something to be a decent desktop replacement it's pretty critical to have USB support that can be passed through to the guest like how it works in VirtualBox. Is this supported in that solution?

I don't think virtualization would be one's 'regular' desktop activity -- that's higher-end.

If you try this app to get Debian Linux, don't expect *too* much -- it's functioning is going to be limited by your smartphone or tablet hardware, of course, and also by the 'fakeroot' method that the app uses. (But don't expect too little, either.)

Obviously if your hardware has full-sized USB ports then you got them -- otherwise maybe use Bluetooth-based input devices, and wi-fi, so that there are no cables anywhere.

OpenOffice also has an Android version that doesn't require downloading a whole linux distro,

Okay.

and it fits in well to the rest of the Android environment. I know OOo is pretty much dead after LibreOffice took off, but it's my preference for doing basic document stuff on a droid since it's more compact. It's just as good for basic word processing.

There's also 'Text Edit':

http://android-apk.org/apk/org.paulmach.textedit/1.3.1/androidaftermarket/text+edit/

Sea

8th July 2016, 22:27

Hmmmm, that doesn't sound accurate -- those devices are passive and would generally use far less power than Bluetooth speakers or a screen projector, etc.
If it's worth it for you you can always get an OTG passthrough-type cable:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FGKXY9S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00CXAC1ZW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=QN61H079MTY44KH7N24RWired keyboards and mice are still an additional 200ma or so of current draw taken from the device and that does have a substantial impact on battery life. An OTG cable like the one you linked will fix that but it still won't charge the device while the USB devices are connected. That was my point: When the battery is getting low, you'd have to hook it up to a charger, and couldn't use the keyboard and mouse in the meantime. Bluetooth devices solve this problem because can keep your android device on the charger while using them, so you don't have to abandon its use as a desktop PC when the battery is running low. Some phones and tablets, usually higher-end ones, do work with specialized USB-OTG cables that let you charge the device and use the USB ports at the same time. These would probably make the best desktops.

Regarding my mention of virtualization: I was referring to the USB passthrough feature in VirtualBox where you can plug a USB device into the host and it shows up in the VM. With the solution you linked, is it possible to plug (for example, a scanner or something) into the Android and have it show up in the Linux environment?

Moggallana

8th July 2016, 23:51

Alternatively (and only if you have a Nexus 5, as of right now, with more phones planned in the future), you can use something like MaruOS (which I can't post a link to yet but you can find it pretty easily).
There are other solutions in development right now, as well, although I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Didn't Canonical try to do something like this with their Ubuntu phone? I've been out of the loop since I abandoned Ubuntu quite some time ago.

ckaihatsu

9th July 2016, 12:59

Wired keyboards and mice are still an additional 200ma or so of current draw taken from the device and that does have a substantial impact on battery life.

Hmmp! Well I guess I *have* to take your word for this....

An OTG cable like the one you linked will fix that but it still won't charge the device while the USB devices are connected.

Actually, *yes*, that's exactly what that cable does, regardless of the device.

That was my point: When the battery is getting low, you'd have to hook it up to a charger, and couldn't use the keyboard and mouse in the meantime. Bluetooth devices solve this problem because can keep your android device on the charger while using them, so you don't have to abandon its use as a desktop PC when the battery is running low. Some phones and tablets, usually higher-end ones, do work with specialized USB-OTG cables that let you charge the device and use the USB ports at the same time. These would probably make the best desktops.

Regarding my mention of virtualization: I was referring to the USB passthrough feature in VirtualBox where you can plug a USB device into the host and it shows up in the VM. With the solution you linked, is it possible to plug (for example, a scanner or something) into the Android and have it show up in the Linux environment?

Yes, and make sure to let us know how it goes.

Alternatively (and only if you have a Nexus 5, as of right now, with more phones planned in the future), you can use something like MaruOS (which I can't post a link to yet but you can find it pretty easily).
There are other solutions in development right now, as well, although I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Didn't Canonical try to do something like this with their Ubuntu phone? I've been out of the loop since I abandoned Ubuntu quite some time ago.

Just looked into the MaruOS, and it looks promising though I have no way of trying it out.

Haven't kept up with the Ubuntu side of it all.

Sea

15th July 2016, 05:45

Hmmp! Well I guess I *have* to take your word for this....You can also look up the power draw of a given USB keyboard and mouse and the capacity of your device's battery, and calculate an estimation of how much faster it would drain.

Actually, *yes*, that's exactly what that cable does, regardless of the device.No, it doesn't. You really don't know what you're talking about. Did you even read the description on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FGKXY9S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00CXAC1ZW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=QN61H079MTY44KH7N24R)? let me quote it for you:

Suitable but not limited for Samsung Galaxy S2, Samsung Galaxy Note, Samsung Galaxy S3/S4, Galaxy Tab3 8.0, Sony Xperla NX-02D, Sony Xperla acro HDIS12S.Toshiba REGZA Phone-TO1D, and Sony S-series Tablet.
USB interface support USB devices such as USB flash disk, USB mouse, USB keyboard and etc.
Supports supply extra power through micro USB port if necessary.(Please take note:Extra power only charge for accessories such as mouse keyboard etc,can not charge for smartphone or tablet)
Only suitable for the devices which its micro-B USB connector enable USB 2.0 hostor USB OTG function.
1 Micro USB Male to 1 Micro USB female for charging and 2 USB 2.0 Female for external device

(emphasis mine)

Also, see the post by davidcampbell in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1839145

Yes, and make sure to let us know how it goes.I never said I'd do it. I asked if it was possible to attach devices to the linux environment this way. Is it?

ckaihatsu

15th July 2016, 15:59

You can also look up the power draw of a given USB keyboard and mouse and the capacity of your device's battery, and calculate an estimation of how much faster it would drain.

Okay.

No, it doesn't. You really don't know what you're talking about. Did you even read the description on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FGKXY9S/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687702&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00CXAC1ZW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=QN61H079MTY44KH7N24R)? let me quote it for you:(emphasis mine)

Well, this part...

(Please take note:Extra power only charge for accessories such as mouse keyboard etc,can not charge for smartphone or tablet)

...Is at-odds with this part:

1 Micro USB Male to 1 Micro USB female for charging and 2 USB 2.0 Female for external device

Also, see the post by davidcampbell in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1839145
I never said I'd do it. I asked if it was possible to attach devices to the linux environment this way. Is it?

Yes

But, as always, the more data from user experiences that can be compiled, the better -- that's why you should contribute your own experience with this, if you should happen to go ahead with it or anything else that's similar.

almost

12th October 2016, 18:53

so basically this is a pretend version of rooting a device with about 1/8th the utility

ckaihatsu

12th October 2016, 19:12

so basically this is a pretend version of rooting a device with about 1/8th the utility

Hey, if you're asking me, I'd say get a laptop and put Linux Mint on it, but if the novelty, portability, or ease of use of this other thing happens to appeal to you then there you go.

almost

13th October 2016, 01:01

ckaihatsu

13th October 2016, 13:02

Okay, but we're also capable of discussing why not to and possible alternatives. Portability and ease of use are what rooting opens the doors to in the ability to configure system and data files which is why many of the more powerful and useful apps require a rooted device. I just don't see how basically installing a full lite distro environment on a nonrooted device adds either portability or ease of use. I might give this a shot though and write a brief review here later.

I deleted this post while trying to edit this is a cb version also I dont have a device available that has 900mb of internal space

Yeah, better hardware makes for a more-enabled experience, of course.

If you're the more-technical type and can do the rooting thing, then good for you -- I think the Debian noroot 'fakeroot' option is good for most because you can be a regular Linux user on whatever device with almost zero effort or fuss.

It's an interesting thing, in and of itself, anyway -- pair it with a Bluetooth keyboard and you'll have the smallest in portability and usability. All Debian Linux packages are available and installable, as normal.

https://www.amazon.com/Rii-Wireless-Bluetooth-Backlight-Touchpad/dp/B01GCPVZDW/ref=sr_1_9?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1476359813&sr=1-9&keywords=bluetooth+mini+keyboard

https://www.amazon.com/iPazzPort-Bluetooth-Wireless-Raspberry-KP-810-21SB/dp/B015J7N58C/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1476359813&sr=1-4&keywords=bluetooth+mini+keyboard

almost

13th October 2016, 22:38

ckaihatsu

14th October 2016, 12:44

Its about as much linux as a website that emulates a terminal and gives you access to some classic nix apps and command play. You dont have access to your system and it greatly limits if not completely stops the types of tweaks and configurations that make anything running on linux and how linux itself operates worth anything at all. If the app's functionality isnt maximized by configurations requiring system access, which is of course possible with basic use, then I am 100% sure it is more feasible for someone to simply find a ported version of the app or find a new app all together, seeing how there are tens of thousands, than to install a gig worth of fake operating system that functions more as a crippled skin than an os.

The 'fuss' is synonymous with learning and if someone doesnt want to im fine with that. I dont care if others dont want to use linux, I dont care if this is considered a novelty by some, but for the sake of discussion a few of the claims are off the mark imo.

You've mentioned that you haven't tried it out yet -- maybe you should, just for the sake of having backing for whatever statements you make.

Despite your dismissiveness the Debian Linux system *does* function as normal throughout, and one can even use the touchscreen to control the cursor, with left and right clicks, to decent effect. Installing and enabling the 'Hackers Keyboard' app will give you a normal-type keyboard on-screen, again to serviceable usage. For more serious use I'd recommend a Bluetooth mini keyboard with trackpad, or else a full-sized Bluetooth keyboard and Bluetooth trackball.

[It] gives you access to some classic nix apps and command play

All Debian Linux packages are available and installable, as normal.

almost

14th October 2016, 16:40

You've mentioned that you haven't tried it out yet -- maybe you should, just for the sake of having backing for whatever statements you make.

I don't think I have to because there would be no way to demonstrate any further than I already have with words, why the claims being made don't make sense. What you could do to progress the conversation is back up your statements that i'm questioning, claiming it runs as a full distro 'as normally' without root access, by explaining how it allows access and interaction with system and data files.

Despite your dismissiveness the Debian Linux system *does* function as normal throughout, and one can even use the touchscreen to control the cursor, with left and right clicks, to decent effect. Installing and enabling the 'Hackers Keyboard' app will give you a normal-type keyboard on-screen, again to serviceable usage. For more serious use I'd recommend a Bluetooth mini keyboard with trackpad, or else a full-sized Bluetooth keyboard and Bluetooth trackball.

As I stated very clearly, my issue is that it would be far easier for someone looking for functionality to simply find ported apps or similar apps created by users fond of certain other apps, or by the original development teams or individual developers. Why? Because Android devices already uses a linux kernel, it's already in a nonrooted system, and if you don't need development level access to system files then you certainly don't need yet another OS that is going to do the same thing that your current one does.

I use a regular full sized pc keyboard because it's what I have.

Wessex Way Monster

14th October 2016, 22:07

this is about as useful as quantum pendants that charge your body with positive ions

almost

15th October 2016, 01:26

this is about as useful as quantum pendants that charge your body with positive ions

Wait, how is all that supposed to work?

ckaihatsu

15th October 2016, 12:54

I don't think I have to because there would be no way to demonstrate any further than I already have with words, why the claims being made don't make sense. What you could do to progress the conversation is back up your statements that i'm questioning, claiming it runs as a full distro 'as normally' without root access, by explaining how it allows access and interaction with system and data files.

No, definitely not. At this point you're at a loss from lack of experience. (Maybe borrow someone's else's device for the time being -- ?)

As I stated very clearly, my issue is that it would be far easier for someone looking for functionality to simply find ported apps or similar apps created by users fond of certain other apps, or by the original development teams or individual developers. Why? Because Android devices already uses a linux kernel, it's already in a nonrooted system, and if you don't need development level access to system files then you certainly don't need yet another OS that is going to do the same thing that your current one does.

I use a regular full sized pc keyboard because it's what I have.

Yeah, sure -- if someone can do something using Android apps in the default Android environment, then there it is.

But there's a reason why Debian Linux is preferred -- it's fully stripped-down, but with a wide variety of available (free) apps.

This isn't for everyone, but it's still a novelty regardless to see the Linux desktop on such a small device.

(You could probably use a regular USB wired keyboard with your device, using an OTG cable.)

this is about as useful as quantum pendants that charge your body with positive ions

Wait, how is all that supposed to work?

It's at this past thread:

Boost your physical and mental health with cheap health tech

http://www.revleft.com/vb/boost-your...186/index.html

...At this post:

Sole (so-lay) -- a health plan for those who can afford unrefined sea salt

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/192551-Sole-(so-lay)-a-health-plan-for-those-who-can-afford-unrefined-sea-salt?p=2823995#post2823995

Wessex Way Monster

15th October 2016, 15:36

novelty

And that's all it will ever be. Something for tech hipsters to shower off how much they can do on their shit phone while all the while not understanding the actual environment behind it and the fact that there are ways to do what they've done, but better in every way.

Regarding all you quantum pendant shit, this is why no one should trust a thing you say.

ckaihatsu

15th October 2016, 15:47

And that's all it will ever be. Something for tech hipsters to shower off how much they can do on their shit phone while all the while not understanding the actual environment behind it and the fact that there are ways to do what they've done, but better in every way.

Regarding all you quantum pendant shit, this is why no one should trust a thing you say.

Your dismissiveness is unwarranted -- you're not taking the needs of the *user* into account, either for the Linux-ed device, or for the health material.

Perhaps some on this thread *will* find practicality for themselves in running the Debian noroot app on their smartphone or tablet.

And, likewise, maybe some *will* benefit from the health advice proffered.

This isn't some kind of *academic* thing you can think your way through -- personal *experience* is what matters here, with value for some individuals and not for others.

Wessex Way Monster

15th October 2016, 19:33

This isn't some kind of *academic* thing you can think your way through -- personal *experience* is what matters here, with value for some individuals and not for others.

Then let me sell you my piss in a bottle. I always notice that when I lightly coat my inner nostrils with it that my sinuses clear up exceedingly quickly.

almost

15th October 2016, 20:44

No, definitely not. At this point you're at a loss from lack of experience. (Maybe borrow someone's else's device for the time being -- ?) Yeah, sure -- if someone can do something using Android apps in the default Android environment, then there it is.

But there's a reason why Debian Linux is preferred -- it's fully stripped-down, but with a wide variety of available (free) apps.

What has happened here though is that I have enough experience to progress the conversation to a point where you cannot add any new content to the discussion, where your response to criticisms are what the criticisms had previously responded to, this is the point where you can no longer participate.

This isn't for everyone, but it's still a novelty regardless to see the Linux desktop on such a small device.

It's entirely a novelty just stick with this pitch next time.

(You could probably use a regular USB wired keyboard with your device, using an OTG cable.)

What didn't you get about my post?

almost

15th October 2016, 21:05

This isn't some kind of *academic* thing you can think your way through -- personal *experience* is what matters here, with value for some individuals and not for others.

If instead of seeking antibiotics you want to dig up rocks in your back yard and attribute magical powers to them everyone is free to do that. If it makes them feel better, cool, they'll still die of disease and that's medical science.

If you want a novelty w/e on your device that's great I'm happy for you but you will still lack the functionality of an OS designed for sys/dat file access with the intent by design being that of configuration in an even lighter environment, on even smaller devices, operating without a GUI, that's computer science.

ckaihatsu

16th October 2016, 13:13

Then let me sell you my piss in a bottle. I always notice that when I lightly coat my inner nostrils with it that my sinuses clear up exceedingly quickly.

What has happened here though is that I have enough experience to progress the conversation to a point where you cannot add any new content to the discussion, where your response to criticisms are what the criticisms had previously responded to, this is the point where you can no longer participate.

It's entirely a novelty just stick with this pitch next time.

What didn't you get about my post?

If instead of seeking antibiotics you want to dig up rocks in your back yard and attribute magical powers to them everyone is free to do that. If it makes them feel better, cool, they'll still die of disease and that's medical science.

Look, if no one here wants to be a proverbial 'guinea pig', that's understandable -- but just because you disqualify yourself from the practice of science doesn't mean that *****ing from the sidelines is appropriate.

For people who are not well maybe looking into a *variety* of treatments is their best bet. And for people who want to have a desktop computer in their pocket, there it is. If you're *neither* of these types of people, that's fine. You don't *have* to be interested.

If you want a novelty w/e on your device that's great I'm happy for you but you will still lack the functionality of an OS designed for sys/dat file access with the intent by design being that of configuration in an even lighter environment, on even smaller devices, operating without a GUI, that's computer science.

It's a regular Debian Linux desktop environment -- including the GUI -- and you can install additional kinds of software, as normal.

almost

16th October 2016, 14:33

Look, if no one here wants to be a proverbial 'guinea pig', that's understandable -- but just because you disqualify yourself from the practice of science doesn't mean that *****ing from the sidelines is appropriate.

For people who are not well maybe looking into a *variety* of treatments is their best bet. And for people who want to have a desktop computer in their pocket, there it is. If you're *neither* of these types of people, that's fine. You don't *have* to be interested.

you dont even sound like a user of these things you sound like you're in sales and marketing

It's a regular Debian Linux desktop environment -- including the GUI -- and you can install additional kinds of software, as normal.

I've explained how this is false. This is you being unable to participate in the conversation.

ckaihatsu

16th October 2016, 14:46

you dont even sound like a user of these things you sound like you're in sales and marketing

Like I said, you *don't have* to do any of this stuff -- but then you're uninformed about it.

I've explained how this is false. This is you being unable to participate in the conversation.

Just because you anonymously "explain" something -- really just *contradicting* it -- doesn't mean that you're correct in what you say.

almost

16th October 2016, 15:38

Like I said, you *don't have* to do any of this stuff -- but then you're uninformed about it.

Just because you anonymously "explain" something -- really just *contradicting* it -- doesn't mean that you're correct in what you say.

"this stuff" doesnt start with a novelty, "this stuff" involves knowledge of the os, the theory and practical application of it, which i have demonstrated having experience with by articulating a set of specific criticisms and leveling them at your claims. This has left you unable to explain, agree, or disagree, with them because you are seeking to claim theory and practical application, that we could tentativley call science, through a novelty that you have become emotionally attached to.

ckaihatsu

16th October 2016, 15:44

"this stuff" doesnt start with a novelty, "this stuff" involves knowledge of the os, the theory and practical application of it, which i have demonstrated having experience with by articulating a set of specific criticisms and leveling them at your claims.

All you've claimed is that rooting an Android device confers better functionality than a non-rooted one.

While I know this to be correct, I'm saying that *ease-of-use* is better for the user with the 'Debian noroot' app -- something you have no experience with since you haven't tried it at all.

This has left you unable to explain, agree, or disagree, with them because you are seeking to claim theory and practical application, that we could tentativley call science, through a novelty that you have become emotionally attached to.

I'm not 'attached' to it -- I'm just providing this information on an 'f.y.i.' basis, for anyone to use or not-use.

almost

16th October 2016, 17:28

All you've claimed is that rooting an Android device confers better functionality than a non-rooted one.

While I know this to be correct, I'm saying that *ease-of-use* is better for the user with the 'Debian noroot' app -- something you have no experience with since you haven't tried it at all.

That is not all that I've claimed, it is all that you have been able to extract and understand. You are proposing a novelty that you are emotionally attached to as a scientific solution to a problem or series of problems and in doing so are proposing inadequate and unnecessary steps to achieve a goal. I am able to conceptualize the part through understanding and experience with the whole. You, the person with the experience of the specific part, are unable to engage the criticisms of the part, and further progress the discussion, because you cannot see and do not know of the whole.

ckaihatsu

16th October 2016, 17:33

That is not all that I've claimed, it is all that you have been able to extract and understand. You are proposing a novelty that you are emotionally attached to as a scientific solution to a problem or series of problems and in doing so are proposing inadequate and unnecessary steps to achieve a goal. I am able to conceptualize the part through understanding and experience with the whole. You, the person with the experience of the specific part, are unable to engage the criticisms of the part, and further progress the discussion, because you cannot see and do not know of the whole.

This is what you claimed:

[It] lack[s] the functionality of an OS designed for sys/dat file access with the intent by design being that of configuration in an even lighter environment, on even smaller devices, operating without a GUI, that's computer science.

The first part is the crux of your argument, but you're *incorrect* in the latter portion -- the Debian noroot Linux OS is fully functioning for the user, meaning that it's only limited by the hardware. Yes, there's a GUI, just as with a regular desktop version.

almost

16th October 2016, 18:22

This is what you claimed:
The first part is the crux of your argument, but you're *incorrect* in the latter portion -- the Debian noroot Linux OS is fully functioning for the user, meaning that it's only limited by the hardware. Yes, there's a GUI, just as with a regular desktop version.

You're taking an OS designed to allow full system access and configurability and you are removing that in order to put it onto a device in a state that also doesn't allow that in order to have a 'classic feel'. As a novelty that's fine but ease of use would simply be finding ported or other apps on the stock android system to begin with. This would be the easiest for an average user. Imo, rooting a device would be the next step past that.

A large number of the apps I use on a fairly regular basis wouldn't work regarding hardware limitations among other things.

I was commenting on how the usefulness of linux on small devices doesn't directly correlate with a gui.

ckaihatsu

16th October 2016, 18:50

You're taking an OS designed to allow full system access and configurability and you are removing that in order to put it onto a device in a state that also doesn't allow that in order to have a 'classic feel'.

You're continuing to overstate, because you haven't tried and *don't know* that the 'fakeroot' environment is full-featured.

As a novelty that's fine but ease of use would simply be finding ported or other apps on the stock android system to begin with. This would be the easiest for an average user.

I already mentioned the same thing:

[I]f someone can do something using Android apps in the default Android environment, then there it is.

---

Imo, rooting a device would be the next step past that.

It's a fairly technical process, and I'd say that the next-most-convenient option would be the 'Debian noroot' app.

A large number of the apps I use on a fairly regular basis wouldn't work regarding hardware limitations among other things.

For technically-rudimentary tasks I think the Debian Linux 'noroot' option *would* be a good fit -- someone who just wants to browse the net, do some text editing, maybe a spreadsheet, etc. It also runs Java, so all Java apps work normally.

I was commenting on how the usefulness of linux on small devices doesn't directly correlate with a gui.

Well, nonetheless, the GUI is present and fully functioning. (You can stick to a Terminal window, though, if you prefer.)

almost

19th October 2016, 03:35

You're continuing to overstate, because you haven't tried and *don't know* that the 'fakeroot' environment is full-featured.

Really? How does it allow interaction with hardware? How does it allow access to core system and data files of the device of further optimization? It doesnt. It isnt full featured.

I already mentioned the same thing:

The very next thing you say in your reply contradicts this. You say that you think it would be easier for average android users to install a garbage os emulator than to take an actual step forward in being able to customize and secure their system.

---

It's a fairly technical process, and I'd say that the next-most-convenient option would be the 'Debian noroot' app.

They already have it its called android.

For technically-rudimentary tasks I think the Debian Linux 'noroot' option *would* be a good fit -- someone who just wants to browse the net, do some text editing, maybe a spreadsheet, etc. It also runs Java, so all Java apps work normally.

They already have it its android

Well, nonetheless, the GUI is present and fully functioning. (You can stick to a Terminal window, though, if you prefer.)

This is an example of you being unable to extract useful information in order to progress the discussion.

ckaihatsu

19th October 2016, 13:39

Really? How does it allow interaction with hardware? How does it allow access to core system and data files of the device of further optimization? It doesnt. It isnt full featured.

There's more technical information at these links. Knock yourself out.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.****ubuntu&hl=en

https://github.com/pelya/debian-noroot

https://www.androidpit.com/turn-your-android-device-into-a-linux-pc-without-rooting

Also:

Using a Android phone like a desktop PC Linux Debian No root
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvProQfzEE
ULvProQfzEE

Using an Android phone like a desktop PC - Linux Debian Noroot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFulMBNvjZA
iFulMBNvjZA

DEBIAN NOROOT
[in Spanish]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVULGxfncfg
rVULGxfncfg

---

The very next thing you say in your reply contradicts this. You say that you think it would be easier for average android users to install a garbage os emulator than to take an actual step forward in being able to customize and secure their system.

It all depends on the individual user's particular needs.

They already have it its called android.

They already have it its android

This is an example of you being unable to extract useful information in order to progress the discussion.

I'm not interested in 'progressing the discussion'. Again, this is all f.y.i. -- either the reader (besides me and you) will find this information useful, or they won't.

almost

19th October 2016, 20:28

There's more technical information at these links. Knock yourself out.

From github:

Run Debian on top of Android with a single click.

No root required! Should work on any high-end device! Unleash full unrestricted desktop environment onto your mobile device! Instant frustration guaranteed! (unless you're using mouse or stylus).

This app is NOT full Debian OS - it is a compatibility layer, which allows you to run Debian applications. Your phone is NOT rooted during installation. Also, this is NOT official Debian.org release.

There are several limitations:

It cannot mess up your Android device, because it's a regular well-behaved Android app, which does not need root access.
No audio support. Some time ago PulseAudio was somewhat supported, but now it's broken.
No OpenGL support. It's possible to add it but it's a huge chunk of work, and I will not be doing that.
No access to the device hardware. That means you cannot re-partition SD card, you cannot burn CD-Roms, you cannot run ping or sniff your network etc.
No ability to move app to SD card, so you will need a lot of internal storage.
Most servers such as SSH or Apache won't start, because they all need root features. You can use tightvncserver instead of SSH, and wbox instead of Apache as a simple file sharing web server,

A 'full' DE is not fully functioning in relation to what the os, linux, is designed for. This offers nothing outside of stock android capabilties imo. It is a novelty with greatly limited access and configurations, as that linked page openly states, as i have stated throughout this discussion.

It all depends on the individual user's particular needs.

If their needs are a novelty then yes but if their needs are functionality then no.

I'm not interested in 'progressing the discussion'. Again, this is all f.y.i. -- either the reader (besides me and you) will find this information useful, or they won't.

Most of the time especially with tech related stuff everyone benefits from discussion and varying opinions because it makes it easier to identify factually incorrect information.

ckaihatsu

20th October 2016, 13:22

From github:

A 'full' DE is not fully functioning in relation to what the os, linux, is designed for. This offers nothing outside of stock android capabilties imo.

Well, just for the sake of argument, it doesn't have to be either-or -- any Android apps you're running will not interfere with the Debian Linux OS, and vice-versa. In my usage I'd play music from an Android app, VLC, and then go into the Linux environment and do other stuff there.

It is a novelty with greatly limited access and configurations, as that linked page openly states, as i have stated throughout this discussion.

Not 'greatly limited' -- I think that's a bit too dismissive. (Consider that many devices are now quad-core and even octacore, so the hardware itself isn't the limitation.) (You can always check by opening a Terminal window within Debian Linux and using the 'top' program to see realtime CPU usage, etc.)

If their needs are a novelty then yes but if their needs are functionality then no.

'Functionality' isn't one thing -- it varies by user. (Maybe see the video -- it shows hands-on examples.)

Most of the time especially with tech related stuff everyone benefits from discussion and varying opinions because it makes it easier to identify factually incorrect information.

Certainly.

Wessex Way Monster

20th October 2016, 20:11

ckaihatsu

21st October 2016, 12:54

Am I correct when I say what has happened in this discussion is that ckaihatsu saw something they thought was not 100% usual and also the kind of thing that hipsters who want to present themselves as techies to their non tech savvy friends and thought "hey. I can cultivate an image of tech savviness, I don't need to actually know anything!" Then proceeded to make several false claims without doing any research then has had to backtrack through this whole discussion when someone who has even the slightest knowledge in that field participates in the discussion? Is that an accurate summary?

Also, I like how to one moment said you weren't interested in progressing the discussion then agreed a reply later that progressing the discussion is a good idea.

Harsh -- !

When I said 'fully functioning' I meant that the OS itself does not function any differently for the user than the regular Debian Linux.

Yes, the 'Debian noroot' app has some shortcomings in addressing the hardware (no audio), so, sorry, it's not-exactly 'fully functioning'. One can just play audio through the Android environment, though.

I'm not nearly as image-conscious, or technologically ignorant, as you think.

And I'm *not* interested *myself* in this topic. I just think it's a good app, would *at least* be a novelty to most, and probably more. If others want to inquire further into the topic I'll oblige as much as I think is appropriate.

Wessex Way Monster

21st October 2016, 16:44

When I said 'fully functioning' I meant that the OS itself does not function any differently for the user than the regular Debian Linux.
So you didn't mean fully functioning at all.

I'm not nearly as image-conscious, or technologically ignorant, as you think.
Words are easy, Chris.

I'll oblige as much as I think is appropriate.

Which leaves you able to step out of discussion at any time you feel you are unable to justify your statements without admitting it. Neat.

ckaihatsu

21st October 2016, 19:06

So you didn't mean fully functioning at all.

Words are easy, Chris.

Which leaves you able to step out of discussion at any time you feel you are unable to justify your statements without admitting it. Neat.

What's with your mistrusting attitude and bad-faith, WWM -- ?

Did I insult in you in a past life -- ?

= D

Wessex Way Monster

21st October 2016, 19:36

What's with your mistrusting attitude and bad-faith, WWM -- ?

Did I insult in you in a past life -- ?

= D

I just think that you should be presenting more actual useful information.

ckaihatsu

21st October 2016, 19:42

I just think that you should be presenting more actual useful information.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but please don't be so rude, snitty, and demanding of others -- meaning me.

Wessex Way Monster

22nd October 2016, 03:56

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but please don't be so rude, snitty, and demanding of others -- meaning me.

No, I am gonna be demanding of you because I think you don't deserve to peddle trinkets as medical gadgets and software novelties as a tools that will do anything other than impede users in the actual functionality of their devices. You use the forum as a place to market various oddities that don't actually help anyone. What you're doing here feels like advertising, and when users offer critiques of your trinkets or your diagrams you masturbate to the fact that now you get to say, "no you just don't get it" and proceed to ignore or deliberately misinterpret those criticisms.

ckaihatsu

22nd October 2016, 12:39

No, I am gonna be demanding of you because I think you don't deserve to peddle trinkets as medical gadgets and software novelties as a tools that will do anything other than impede users in the actual functionality of their devices. You use the forum as a place to market various oddities that don't actually help anyone. What you're doing here feels like advertising, and when users offer critiques of your trinkets or your diagrams you masturbate to the fact that now you get to say, "no you just don't get it" and proceed to ignore or deliberately misinterpret those criticisms.

I'm not 'peddling' anything -- I have no financial interest in anything I've posted.

If the providing of certain beneficial information is offensive to you I don't know what to say -- it may be of some benefit to *others* who come across it.

Only one product I've posted has any significant cost (excluding sea salt and borax), so the cost of trying these things out is nothing, aside from one's efforts.

I'll leave the masturbation to you, and I have my own limits as to the amount of follow-up I'm willing to give.

almost

19th November 2016, 22:45

so the cost of trying these things out is nothing, aside from one's efforts. it sounds like a lot of effort tbh

ckaihatsu

20th November 2016, 13:03

it sounds like a lot of effort tbh

Yeah, well obviously if you're not into it then don't do it.

As computer stuff goes, though, it *is* pretty quick and low-effort. The most complicated part, for someone who's new to Debian Linux (other types, like Mint, are easier), would probably be tracking down the names for the different kinds of Linux software packages, as in what-does-what.

With the Internet, though, anything technical is just a search away....

almost

20th November 2016, 17:40

With the Internet, though, anything technical is just a search away.... Correct, hence my entire argument thus far.

ckaihatsu

20th November 2016, 17:43

Correct, hence my entire argument thus far.

You're not being clear -- you may want to rephrase.

almost

20th November 2016, 20:40

You're not being clear -- you may want to rephrase. learning is only a click away, learn why linux is useful before stating that a non root distro stripped of nearly all functionality is a great thing which was downgraded later in the discussion to 'a novelty' which I found fair enough.

ckaihatsu

21st November 2016, 12:45

learning is only a click away, learn why linux is useful before stating that a non root distro stripped of nearly all functionality is a great thing which was downgraded later in the discussion to 'a novelty' which I found fair enough.

It's *not* stripped of all its functionality -- the first thing one may want to search for and learn about is how to install additional software packages (for free, for the whole OS) from the command line.

You can call it whatever you want, but others may find that extending the OS by installing additional software would go a long way for them, depending on specific needs. (Your anxiety about it being 'non-root' is unjustifiable.)

almost

24th November 2016, 16:12

(Your anxiety about it being 'non-root' is unjustifiable.) I don't personally have anxiety over it although I can't say the same for what appears to be happening in the actual dev notes (lol) and user comments that took up the majority of a page or two on multiple sites talking about its gross limitations which painted a very different picture than the commentary here, but my position that not having root would be a deal breaker is entirely justified. That is a fact. I would have limited or no configuration and hardware interaction, that directly equates to functionality, period. Now for people not like me at all in their usage of technology. Why would someone with no or little experience take a stock phone and then load this onto it? That doesn't make sense. Would people use this as an entry to linux? This is not a Linux Tutorial type of environment, the last time I checked this isn't even a real Linux distro release. Could people into linux use this? I think very few because they use Linux for functionality not because it's cool and that functionality is achieved in other ways.

ckaihatsu

24th November 2016, 17:56

I don't personally have anxiety over it although I can't say the same for what appears to be happening in the actual dev notes (lol) and user comments that took up the majority of a page or two on multiple sites talking about its gross limitations which painted a very different picture than the commentary here, but my position that not having root would be a deal breaker is entirely justified. That is a fact. I would have limited or no configuration and hardware interaction, that directly equates to functionality, period. Now for people not like me at all in their usage of technology. Why would someone with no or little experience take a stock phone and then load this onto it? That doesn't make sense. Would people use this as an entry to linux? This is not a Linux Tutorial type of environment, the last time I checked this isn't even a real Linux distro release. Could people into linux use this? I think very few because they use Linux for functionality not because it's cool and that functionality is achieved in other ways.

There *may* be some misunderstanding here -- once installed the desktop shows several icons including one for a 'Root Terminal'. This means that launching this app gives the user 'superuser' privileges over the whole Linux environment, as one would have in a conventional Linux OS by typing 'sudo su' at the command line, and typing in the root password in a user-level Terminal window.

The 'root' access in a Linux environment is what's required for the installation of new software packages (and for removing them).

This is distinct from something called 'rooting' the Android device itself, which is more of a technical process, hence the usability and convenience of this 'Debian noroot' app for Android.

And, yeah, I'm not *cheerleading* for this hardware / software implementation, but if someone wants the advantages of conventional Linux-based apps, on a typical pocket-sized smartphone, then this option certainly provides that type of functionality, without reservations.

almost

26th November 2016, 21:18

There *may* be some misunderstanding here -- once installed the desktop shows several icons including one for a 'Root Terminal'. This means that launching this app gives the user 'superuser' privileges over the whole Linux environment, as one would have in a conventional Linux OS by typing 'sudo su' at the command line, and typing in the root password in a user-level Terminal window. The 'root' access in a Linux environment is what's required for the installation of new software packages (and for removing them). This is distinct from something called 'rooting' the Android device itself, which is more of a technical process, hence the usability and convenience of this 'Debian noroot' app for Android. No, I am not the one misunderstanding root. https://lifehacker.com/5789397/the-always-up-to-date-guide-to-rooting-any-android-phone
Rooting, for those of you that don’t know, means giving yourself root permissions on your phone. It’s similar running programs as administrators in Windows, or running a command with sudo in Linux. With a rooted phone, you can run apps that require access to certain system settings, as well as flash custom ROMs to your phone, which add all sorts of extra features.
Root: Rooting means you have root access to your device—that is, it can run the sudo command, and has enhanced privileges allowing it to run apps like Wireless Tether or SetCPU. You can root either by installing the Superuser application or by flashing a custom ROM that includes root access. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android_OS)
Rooting is the process of allowing users of smartphones, tablets and other devices running the Android mobile operating system to attain privileged control (known as root access) over various Android subsystems. As Android uses the Linux kernel, rooting an Android device gives similar access to administrative (superuser) permissions as on Linux or any other Unix-like operating system such as FreeBSD or OS X. Rooting is often performed with the goal of overcoming limitations that carriers and hardware manufacturers put on some devices. Thus, rooting gives the ability (or permission) to alter or replace system applications and settings, run specialized applications ("apps") that require administrator-level permissions, or perform other operations that are otherwise inaccessible to a normal Android user. On Android, rooting can also facilitate the complete removal and replacement of the device's operating system, usually with a more recent release of its current operating system.
And, yeah, I'm not *cheerleading* for this hardware / software implementation, but if someone wants the advantages of conventional Linux-based apps, on a typical pocket-sized smartphone, then this option certainly provides that type of functionality, without reservations. You have really stretched the functionality and even the working processes of this thing like you don't quite understand how it works and you certainly don't seem equipped to handle the specific criticisms leveled against it.

ckaihatsu

27th November 2016, 12:46

No, I am not the one misunderstanding root. https://lifehacker.com/5789397/the-always-up-to-date-guide-to-rooting-any-android-phone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android_OS) You have really stretched the functionality and even the working processes of this thing like you don't quite understand how it works and you certainly don't seem equipped to handle the specific criticisms leveled against it.

Like what criticism, exactly -- ?

I'll counterpose that *you* should know more about the 'Debian noroot' app -- as from experience, since you've been describing it inaccurately -- if you're going to be criticizing *it*.