inherent human error

[cubist]

ok well i was thinking.

people say communism will never work becuase of this inherent human thing. is this inherent thing true are we all flawed from the start of our existance or is it capitaist/religious bullshit just to keep cappies in the ideal that capitalism is the best and only way to live?


i know what i think but i don't want another religous debate, i want ideas.

[SittingBull47]

meh. i guess it's just saying how no two people will ever think alike for the same reasons. Thus, communism can't work 100% effectively.

[cubist]

no communism can work effectively thats the point. why do you think it can't work? why do people believe that everyone wouldn't fall in line?

[Hate Is Art]

its all bullshit. Humans aren't born evil and greedy, a baby isn't sub-consciously evil is it?

My friend said to me, communism will never work, humans are all greedy. Well Gandhis wasn't greedy, Martin Luther King Jr wasn't greedy, Che wasn't greedy, i'm not greedy for fucks sake, greed is bred into us by capitilism.

[cubist]

yes it is bullshit but i wanted some objective thinking from some of the theists appears its not going to happen

[hobosexual]

i forget who said it but it was said by someone, "the only true pure thing in this world is a newly born baby" which is pretty much true. it's not that anything is bored into you than it is society that corrupts us. yet it's way more complex than that. ppl can grow up in the perfect family and turn out into killers and feel their lives suck. and ppl can grow up in the worst of conditions and turn into wonderful humans. however it is less likely.

it's also sort of "if it aient broke, dont fix it." if the system works for you then i don't think anybody is gonna try to rise up and change it. it would be pretty hard to put in communism now tho, because it's extremely hard to change ppls minds once they've been made and communism takes the coperation of everyone to truly work. don't give up hope tho.

[monkeydust]

The core of the thread, quite clearly is focused upon the issue of human nature. Does it exist? Is it good or bad? Do we inherently strive for our own goals or the good of others?

It's a classic 'textbook' capitalist arguement, to claim "Communism can't work, we're greedy, it's human nature!" This argument's so widespread and prevelant among the stupid kind of capitalists, largely because it's easy to understand. It doesn't involve any elaborate economics or normative reasoning; many of the sillier capitalsits still come on here using this point.

The two core debates concerning human nature (as far as this thread seems to be concerned) are:

Nature v Nurture & Competition V Co-operation

In the case of the former, capitlaists will tend to emphasize that there is an inherent nature, common to all humans. At the other end of the spectrum, you'l find people who believe everything is learned through experience, there's no inherent nature to us, we are a 'blank slate' I take issue with both.

In the case of the latter, to claim that 'there's no human nature, all is learned' seems to me a contradiction in terms. In making this statement one is actually, without thinking, implying that it's human 'nature' to learn from experience, to exert the attitudes of general society.

Conversely, I do not believe all is natural either. I would not disregard human nature entirely, clearly it's natural for us to form relationships etc. Yet I do not believe it's influence is universal, in many cases, I believe it can be overcome. In any case, I don't think it's such an influence to make cpaitlalism 'natural'


This brings us to the second debate. Are humans naturally competetive or cooperative.

Again, I tend go somewhere down the middle. Communism need not neccesarilly mean we abolish all competition, indeed one could still gain 'status' through respect and hard work. Yet, I personally believe that humans naturally tend to share, give co-operateand help eachother, to a degree. Even in our societies some people tend to be genuinely altruistic.

I think I better stop ranting.

In short, human nature, is not a huge influence upon our actions. It isn't inherently always 'bad', and capitlaism is certainly not the natural manifestation of humanity into an economic system.

[Hate Is Art]

What left said was the point I was trying to make but i lack the articulation.

We are just, just. We have no natrual default.

[Rasta Sapian]

Capitalism is like an ocean, full of fish hungrey with greed, fighting for survival, where big fish are constanly eating smaller fish and territory is in constant threat!

Communism is like an ant hill, full of workers connected by equality, working for each other, where big ant and small ant share resources and territory is always protected from threat!

When survival is no longer the meaning of life, can't we re-anylize the direction of the masses, and learn to work together, lets evolve and take mankind to the stars!

peace yall :)

[Hate Is Art]

thats pretty good rasta, did u come up with it yourself?

[cubist]

thats how i feel i just wanted some decent proposal like left gave