Trump Chicago rally shut down

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Don't know if other folks here have seen this, but it's pretty incredible. Mobs of black, hispanic, white, men, women, Muslims, Sanderistas etc showed up to the Trump rally in Chicago and basically stopped it outright. There predictably were some fights and punches thrown, but what's amazing is that the protesters seem to have effectively outnumbered the Trump supporters and overwhelmed the rally.

It's no surprise really, considering how Chicago has been a hotbed for Leftist activism for a while. What's perhaps more remarkable is that Trump organized such a rally there and didn't expect it to get shut down in the first place.

One hopeful sign in this is how previously passive liberal Americans are recognizing that direct action and militancy is the way to get a message across. It shows a belief in forcing their will on the political stage in a way I haven't seen in the US for some time, with the exception of Occupy (and, of course, the nonsense from rightwing militia groups).

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/donald-trump-chicago-protests/

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

I watched the whole thing happen live on YouTube. It was fucking AMAZING.

This shit is unprecedented. The closest thing it can be compared to is the 1968 DNC, but this shit happened MONTHS before either party's convention. This was a kind of solidarity I haven't seen in America in a LONG time. It ain't quite Cable Street, but maybe it'll be the start of something bigger.

[Bala Perdida]

I wrote a thing but then hit backspace and now it's gone.....

Buuuut... Yeah, a little tussle feels waaay overdue considering a year ago the US was supposedly under a 'crisis of racial tensions' then this Reagan reincarnated turd starts running and everyone starts buying 'feel the bern' bumper stickers instead. Ain't that a crying fucking shame. Also fuck liberals trying to say rioting is dangerous. This safety bullshit's just made racists more comfortable, given them an actual platform. Well.. I guess it's not all bad. Now they're out of the sunnyday shadows and even easier to find then before. What comes next. We'll see.

[Stirnerian]

I support this, but you have to be careful about how you frame it. Part of what propelled Nixon '68 into office was his ability to point to the riots in Chicago at that time and say "look at these barbarians" and sell that to lower-class voters.

If you're going to protest TRUMP, use your head. Don't get violent unless provoked, and don't let anyone else start anything, other. Make fun of him instead.

[Bala Perdida]

I support this, but you have to be careful about how you frame it. Part of what propelled Nixon '68 into office was his ability to point to the riots in Chicago at that time and say "look at these barbarians" and sell that to lower-class voters.

If you're going to protest TRUMP, use your head. Don't get violent unless provoked, and don't let anyone else start anything, other. Make fun of him instead.

Attend your local city hall meeting. Vote with your dollar. Stay in school. Say no to drugs.


What the hell is this? Reagan/Kennedy same bullshit.

[#FF0000]

If you're going to protest TRUMP, use your head. Don't get violent unless provoked, and don't let anyone else start anything, other. Make fun of him instead.

That's actually exactly what happened -- the fight was started by Trump supporters attacking protesters. It was canceled before anything got violent in the first place. I don't think your comparison to Nixon and the riots works either, because the riots weren't directly tied to Nixon the way that violence at Trump rallies is directly tied to his campaign. No one else has this kind of thing happening at their rallies, and so people look at Trump's circus and are just as likely to think "yeah I don't want 4 years of that".

[Rudolf]

If you're going to protest TRUMP, use your head. Don't get violent unless provoked, and don't let anyone else start anything, other. Make fun of him instead.


But if you're provoked and you defend yourself they'll just play the recording backwards so it looked like you attacked first. The media does this all the time. Thus, the argument has to be either never use violence, not even to defend yourself, or use violence in situations in which it could be politically useful. I lean to the latter because im convinced pacifism aids the state.


Anyway, i hope more knuckledraggers get attacked.

[Burzhuin]

It shows one more time American people have a lot of revolutionary fire in them. I hope in other areas people was as active as in Chicago.

[Verneinung]

One thing that came from this was seeing people come to the defense of Trump. His supporters were really bad, but even people on the other side were talking about how this was disruptive to the "democratic process" and violating his rights to "free speech".

Meanwhile, in reality...

[Rudolf]

One thing that came from this was seeing people come to the defense of Trump. His supporters were really bad, but even people on the other side were talking about how this was disruptive to the "democratic process" and violating his rights to "free speech".

Meanwhile, in reality...

Thing is though that these people 'on the other side' are probably also the same people that tweet 'AllLivesMatter'.

[The Intransigent Faction]

That's actually exactly what happened -- the fight was started by Trump supporters attacking protesters. It was canceled before anything got violent in the first place. I don't think your comparison to Nixon and the riots works either, because the riots weren't directly tied to Nixon the way that violence at Trump rallies is directly tied to his campaign. No one else has this kind of thing happening at their rallies, and so people look at Trump's circus and are just as likely to think "yeah I don't want 4 years of that".

Of course, it will be contained easily enough if it's all centered around the circus of one particular candidate. Cruz wouldn't exactly treat these same people well, either.

This is still great to see, though.

[ckaihatsu]

Hundreds protest Trump at Miami Republican debate

http://www.fightbacknews.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-lead-photo/pinataFL.jpg

By staff

Miami, FL - Over 400 activists, students and workers protested outside of the Republican debate held at the University of Miami, and they all had one clear message: Dump Trump and the entire Republican agenda! Protesters gathered outside of the Saint Bede Episcopal Church on the university’s campus and began their march at 6:30 p.m.

Protesters shut down traffic within and around the university, taking mainly to the sidewalks but eventually pouring onto the campus' perimeter roads as well. Activists representing anti-war, environmental and workers' rights groups held banners that read, "Money for jobs and education, not for wars and occupation," as well as, "Take your hate out of my state!"

Conor Munro, a lead organizer with People's Opposition to War, Imperialism and Racism (POWIR), attended the rally to protest the perpetual state of war and conquest that has been proposed by both parties, but Donald Trump in particular. Munro stated, “Both major parties represent the interests of the one percent. The men gathered inside that building are symbols of bigotry, sexism and greed and we need to confront them at every opportunity. Donald Trump has brought out the most reactionary elements in American society and politics. We won't let him or his peers continue their policies of hate."

Protesters chanted, "Dump Trump!" and "Hey-hey, ho-ho, Donald Trump has got to go!"

Among the major groups represented at the march were NextGen Climate, SEIU and Students Working for Equal Rights (SWER). Many in attendance were protesting for $15 minimum wage and a union, as part of the national Fight For 15 campaign.

At the end of the march, some protesters gathered to hit a piñata decorated with the faces of Trump and Ted Cruz. First up to bat was a young Haitian-American boy who said he hated Trump because he is a bad man. Next up was his mother, who slammed the piñata with the stick stating her indignation with Trump's racism and greed. And the third batter was a young Latina woman from SWER who shouted, "Trump is a sexist and a racist!" It took her two swings to split the piñata in half.

Read more News and Views from the Peoples Struggle at http://www.fightbacknews.org. You can write to us at [email protected]

[Kilij]

One thing that came from this was seeing people come to the defense of Trump. His supporters were really bad, but even people on the other side were talking about how this was disruptive to the "democratic process" and violating his rights to "free speech".

Meanwhile, in reality...

It's absolutely ridiculous. Even the political science department at my liberal school is defending the Trump rallies. The amount of hypocrisy in such rhetoric defending "democracy" is baffling.

The protest was our victory, no question, but we need to follow up on it and inspire the spirit of true democracy and left unity.

[LionofTepelenë]

Fucking awesome, Chicago has been a center of leftism since the 1800s and its encouraging to see that even after many years in a post-McCarthy world we still see the embers of a revolution.

[Plagueround]

This is probably the first thing from this campaign I'm supportive of. I don't really give a shit how the liberals want to frame it. No Platform.

[Comrade #138672]

It's absolutely ridiculous. Even the political science department at my liberal school is defending the Trump rallies. The amount of hypocrisy in such rhetoric defending "democracy" is baffling.I always wonder how so many liberals are so confused on these issues. They think they are defending free speech, but at the same time they neglect the free speech of the protesters. It's so bizarre. How can you applaud yourself for your intelligence when you consistently overlook something like that?

[Kilij]

I always wonder how so many liberals are so confused on these issues. They think they are defending free speech, but at the same time they neglect the free speech of the protesters. It's so bizarre. How can you applaud yourself for your intelligence when you consistently overlook something like that?

Because they think democracy is listening to politicians preach and voting, a "democratic" process so sacred and irrevocable that without it our freedoms would be forfeit. Then many are just soft and think it rude and immoral. Complete garbage! democracy is people's power. They have a right to assemble and express their rhetoric at a public university? Well so do we! And in Chicago, the right was dwarfed. The majority won and guess what? That's democracy! If the liberals simply had the guts to speak out and act when confronted with the right's hate and injustice, there wouldn't even be a contest, but by sitting still and letting the right preach, we only give into the idea that they are the "silent majority". If they were the majority, then why does Trump want to resort to threats and suppression of free speech to silence us?

"Trump's call to arrest protesters came at a campaign event in Kansas City, Missouri, where he was repeatedly interrupted at the beginning of his address.
"I'm going to ask that you arrest them," Trump said to the police. "I'll file whatever charges you want. If they want to do this ... we're going to go strongly for your arrests."
Trump said arresting protesters would "ruin the rest of their lives" by giving them a "big arrest mark."
"Once that's starts happening, we're not going to have any more protesters, folks," Trump said."
-From cnn.com/2016/03/12/politics/donald-trump-protests/ (can't post the link since I've less than 25 posts)

[hexaune]

I always wonder how so many liberals are so confused on these issues. They think they are defending free speech, but at the same time they neglect the free speech of the protesters. It's so bizarre. How can you applaud yourself for your intelligence when you consistently overlook something like that?

They confuse free speech with free to not be criticised or confronted.

[ckaihatsu]

How students in Chicago organized to shut down Trump

http://www.fightbacknews.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-lead-photo/noTrumpbanner.jpg

By Joe Iosbaker

Chicago, IL - The announcement of Donald Trump’s visit to the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) came one week before his scheduled, March 11 appearance. Within minutes, there was a Facebook page announcing plans to protest. There was also a moveon.org petition calling on the administration at UIC to cancel the rally.

By later that afternoon, over 5000 people signed up to protest, and by later that night, 50,000 had signed the petition.

The gathering of student leaders on Mar. 7 wasn’t full of movement veterans. There were 15 or 20 members of Students for Justice in Palestine, who had experience winning a vote in the student government for divestment this semester. But during the meeting, when the question was raised, “How many people here have been to a protest?” 20 of the 100 students present raised their hands. Then the question was asked, “How many have organized a protest?” only a few hands went up.

One of the hands was that of Ethan Viets-Van Lear. Viets-Van Lear is a member of Black Youth Project 100, and was part of the We Charge Genocide delegation that went to Switzerland in October, 2014. There, they testified to the United Nations Committee Against Torture about the Chicago Police Department.

Cassie Robledo, a member of the College Democrats, said, “My first protest was when I was 12. My dad and uncles are members of the Steel Workers Union. They took me to the megamarch for immigrant rights.” But the protest against Trump was the first time she was organizing anything like this.

Planning the actions

The students agreed to support two sets of tactics: one inside the Trump event and one outside. It became clear within the meeting that the main drama would be the protests taking place to disrupt Trump’s speech. Cassie Robledo was going in. Usama Ibrahim of Muslim Students Association intended to go in as well.

Another veteran of past protests, Nathaniel Lewis, a grad student in public health, was incorporated into an informal leadership group for the inside group.

Communications were set up, including the use of the app Signal, which allows for encrypted communication. A plan was hatched for the groups planning to disrupt to be organically developed, and then coordinated by dividing up the period of the Trump rally into ten minute intervals.

The tactics for the mass march and rallies outside the Trump event venue were debated during the meeting. Given that the protest was only four days away, there was an emergency character to the planning. There was tension in the room. But after a wide-ranging debate in which more than one third expressed their views, the organizers were able to present a plan which united the room.

The march

When Friday, March 11 came, the Quad on the center of campus was packed, with 1000 people who gathered at 4:30. The organizers realized that they had to be to the corner of Harrison and Racine, outside the Pavilion where the Trump rally was occurring, prior to 5:00. Since the news stations start broadcasting at 5:00, Lewis said, “It is important to get established as soon as possible.”

It was agreed to have only a few speakers. The rally was emceed by Viets-VanLear, also a spoken word poet, who helped keep it short and lively.

The plan was to attempt to take over Harrison Street and then march to the corner with Racine. The police had placed metal barricades in the median in Harrison.

As the crowd marched across campus, it swelled to several thousand people. When it reached Harrison, the tactical leadership of the march made the call: They would take only one the eastbound lane. The barricades were locked together, and once separated into two lanes, the protest would be divided.

Confronting the police

The next challenge was dealing with the Chicago Police Department (CPD). In meetings with the administration earlier in the week, Juan Rojas reported, “They told us that we had to go to the parking lot across the street from the Pavilion.” One activist with SEIU Local 73, the main union on campus, called the lot a “cattle pen,” because it was surrounded by high, wrought iron fences.

Rojas explained why they still went into the meeting with CPD and the administration. “Essentially to tell them that we’re taking Harrison and that we want them to keep off the crowd and let us as organizers control it.” After the meeting, Rojas reported, “CPD wants us to march from the Quad and take the crowd into the parking lot.”

As the ever-growing crowd got within sight of the Trump crowd lining up at the Pavilion, CPD bike cops blocked the street, trying to force the front of the march to divert into the parking lot. Ethan Viets-Van Lear, Juan Rojas and Bear Steck, the tactical leadership group, stood firm. “We have the right to confront the hate that has come to our campus,” said Rojas.

The marchers stood their ground and kept up chanting. Meanwhile, at the intersection, another 1000 anti-Trump protesters had gathered on the corners, behind barricades. Jerry Boyle of the National Lawyers Guild, a legal observer, explained to the police, “Those people have moved into the intersection, and are marching east to meet the larger group.” At this point, the commander realized that the bike cops were surrounded, and pulled them out of the intersection.

The front line of the march cheered, and surged forward to meet those waiting in front of the main doors to the venue.

A rally was then held just in front of the Trump crowd standing in line. Over the next two hours, the police would have to retreat two more times as the protesters demanded to take the entire intersection so that those speaking out could be heard by more of the anti-Trump group that stretched back over a block along Harrison.

Inside

Perhaps 1000 anti-Trump protesters inside the Pavilion filled an entire section of the arena. Before Trump made his announcement that he was chickening out, every 10 minutes, another group would raise their voices. Police would come and remove them. Trump wasn’t facing violence. He was facing courageous youth who were determined to speak out against his hate. As Ibrahim said later, “We would not allow racism, bigotry and xenophobia tarnish our pavilion, nor our city, nor our presidency. Not in our lifetimes.”

Ibrahim continued, “Yesterday, the University of Illinois at Chicago made history. Could this be a turning point in the Donald Trump campaign? Could we have portrayed his cowardice to the millions of Americans and tens of millions of non-Americans across the world? We'll have to just wait and see.”

Read more News and Views from the Peoples Struggle at http://www.fightbacknews.org. You can write to us at [email protected]

[Kveldulf]

Hopefully, this sort of thing is the first raindrop in a good storm.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Trump is now, unsurprisingly, threatening to "send" his supporters to disrupt other rallies (and those of one candidate in particular).

[PikSmeet]

Yeah but lets hope those that oppose Sanders don't get any ideas from what happened here. I mean that really would be bad if mobs stopped him from speaking, right comrades?

[Lord Testicles]

Oh look, it's PikSmeet with another pathetic attempt at trolling.

[PikSmeet]

Oh look, it's PikSmeet with another pathetic attempt at trolling.

Surely you mean stimulating further discussions on this topic.

Skinz, when it comes to pathetic trolling I can't hold a candle to your efforts.

[PikSmeet]

Trump is now, unsurprisingly, threatening to "send" his supporters to disrupt other rallies (and those of one candidate in particular).

You can bet those supporters won't like it up 'em!

But then they can hardly be blamed for these idiots that disrupted Trumps' rally. They did not endorse these actions and probably condemned them as for one thing they just play into the hands of Trump in his crusade, he is telling everyone he is the anti-establisment candidate that they are trying to stop.

[hexaune]

You can bet those supporters won't like it up 'em!

But then they can hardly be blamed for these idiots that disrupted Trumps' rally. They did not endorse these actions and probably condemned them as for one thing they just play into the hands of Trump in his crusade, he is telling everyone he is the anti-establisment candidate that they are trying to stop.

So you are against people protesting and disrupting a politician that is actively inciting xenophobia, anti-immigrant sentiment, racism...

Your arguments keep landing you on the side of absolute reactionaries, surely that should ring some alarm bells for someone claiming to be on the side of the working classes!

[Comrade #138672]

You can bet those supporters won't like it up 'em!

But then they can hardly be blamed for these idiots that disrupted Trumps' rally. They did not endorse these actions and probably condemned them as for one thing they just play into the hands of Trump in his crusade, he is telling everyone he is the anti-establisment candidate that they are trying to stop.Idiots? They successfully stopped Trump's rally. They are anything but idiots. It is better to pro-actively fight Trump than to hopelessly watch him mobilize reactionaries unopposed.

Learned helplessness is thinking you can't do anything about Trump without further empowering him. The left should really get rid of this learned helplessness. I see it way too often. It's poison.

[ckaihatsu]

Chicago Victory over Trump Shows the Way: Keep the Fires Burning!

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/answerchicago/mailings/52/attachments/original/635933233808251557-Trump-Chicago.jpg?1457905759

John Beacham, ANSWER Chicago Coordinator
March 13, 2016

Protesters in Chicago on March 11 shut down white supremacist presidential candidate Donald Trump, and his supporters, forcing the cancellation of a planned campaign rally. It was a great victory for the people of Chicago, the United States and the world.
A multi-national crowd of over 5,000 people surrounded the University of UIC Pavilion on the campus of the University of Chicago Illinois and took over the streets. Inside the event, many thousands of protesters stood their ground and fought off racist and violent Trump supporters, forcing Trump to retreat from Chicago in humiliation.

Join ANSWER Chicago on facebook (https://answerchicago.nationbuilder.com/r?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FANSWERChicago&e=a848ef455e23b28b6da327e31ded573f&utm_source=answerchicago&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=trumpreport&n=2)

The protest was led by youth and students who came out from UIC, all over the city and the region to “Shut it down.” A popular chant was: “No Trump, No KKK, No Fascist USA!”

The largely youth and multi-national makeup of the protest was decisive. This type of unity in the streets puts the powerful of this country on notice: a new anti-racist and anti-establishment movement is rising.

Large numbers of Latinos, Muslims, Black people, Asians, Arabs and white allies stood together, out of necessity, to confront and defeat a great threat to the people. The threat is very real. White supremacy has once again taken center stage in the United States. Homegrown white racism has historically been responsible for the vast majority of terrorism within the United States.

Though the elites of this country oppose a Trump victory in the primaries, they in no way oppose the existence and power of racist billionaires. In fact, they absolutely need to keep racism around. If it comes to choosing between Trump and an anti-racist youth movement, the establishment will choose fascist Trump without any hesitation whatsoever. That is why Hillary Clinton has insinuated that Chicago protesters acted inappropriately and why the media frames the protest as provocative. They are afraid Chicago will light a fire they cannot put out.

Let's keep in our minds this Chicago moment of clarity and use it in our struggle: It wasn't the Republican Party establishment that shut fascist Trump down. It wasn't the Democratic Party.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel, a very powerful Democrat responsible for the mass suppression of Occupy Chicago and who colluded in the lynching of Laquan McDonald, allowed Trump to invade the UIC campus with thousands of racists. Over 65 percent of UIC students are people of color. Trump was an existential threat to the campus and the entire establishment did zero to defend the students—zero.

In fact, Emanuel has thanked, wait for it … the cops! Yes, that's right he thanked the cops for "keeping the peace" and not the brave protesters who were responsible for a win over white supremacy.

The politicians have shown themselves utterly incapable of shutting down Trump. It was the people—led by the youth—who took matters into their own hands and shut Trump down and drove him out of Chicago.

Going forward, the people will build on the example of Chicago and confront Trump everywhere he and his racist mob raise their head. The people of this country must do whatever is necessary to shut down Trump and the white supremacist movement he is encouraging and giving expression to—for good. Racism cannot be tolerated or given space to expand. It must be stamped out.

We must be on alert. Trump still has momentum and he will surely fight back. He has already threatened to send his followers to Bernie Sanders rallies. We must keep the fires burning. It's time to turn Chicago into a countrywide movement.

Donate to ANSWER Chicago (https://answerchicago.nationbuilder.com/r?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paypal.com%2Fus%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwebscr%3Fcmd%3D_flow%26SESSION%3D-YsPhJQCNwzrR_9qJysz23WTB2Un3zdtiMtMphyqwkvK6xTwmcl DM-hIPuC%26dispatch%3D5885d80a13c0db1f8e263663d3faee8 defcd6970d4fd9d661117ac2649af92bb&e=a848ef455e23b28b6da327e31ded573f&utm_source=answerchicago&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=trumpreport&n=3)


ANSWER Chicago · United States
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[PikSmeet]

So you are against people protesting and disrupting a politician that is actively inciting xenophobia, anti-immigrant sentiment, racism...

Your arguments keep landing you on the side of absolute reactionaries, surely that should ring some alarm bells for someone claiming to be on the side of the working classes!

Those protesting were doing nothing to end capitalism and bring about socialism, so what's the point?

I'm against those that deny others their free speech, surely that is fascist and reactionary behaviour?

As for being successful, lol, they are anything but! It has helped, not hindered, Trump, they've played right into his hands and made him act the role of the martyr. The left in the UK used to do this to the BNP, where ever the BNP were standing a candidate they would disrupt their meetings etc, what was the result? The BNP vote went up!
Now if that isn't the mark of an idiot, tell me what is?

[oneday]

Yeah but lets hope those that oppose Sanders don't get any ideas from what happened here. I mean that really would be bad if mobs stopped him from speaking, right comrades?

Could someone ban this troll already, he's already supported fascism in this post, claiming it is better for the working class than what comes before or after it:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2869002&postcount=32
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2869000&postcount=30

[ckaihatsu]

Those protesting were doing nothing to end capitalism and bring about socialism, so what's the point?


Asserting leftist and revolutionary-leftist politics in the process of shutting down a professional political right-wing bigot is certainly a step in the 'right' direction.





I'm against those that deny others their free speech, surely that is fascist and reactionary behaviour?


No, denying inflammatory and *fascist* political sentiments -- the kind that would *deny others* their civil rights -- is absolutely appropriate.





As for being successful, lol, they are anything but! It has helped, not hindered, Trump, they've played right into his hands and made him act the role of the martyr. The left in the UK used to do this to the BNP, where ever the BNP were standing a candidate they would disrupt their meetings etc, what was the result? The BNP vote went up!
Now if that isn't the mark of an idiot, tell me what is?


The overall mainstream reaction / conclusion is yet to be seen, but the priority here should be with the importance of *shutting down hate speech* and all those who use it.

[PikSmeet]

Asserting leftist and revolutionary-leftist politics in the process of shutting down a professional political right-wing bigot is certainly a step in the 'right' direction.





No, denying inflammatory and *fascist* political sentiments -- the kind that would *deny others* their civil rights -- is absolutely appropriate.





The overall mainstream reaction / conclusion is yet to be seen, but the priority here should be with the importance of *shutting down hate speech* and all those who use it.


LOL...like any of thise would work! Don't you get it

Behind fascism stands nationalism
Behind nationalis stands capitalsim

Ergo...to defeat fascism you have to end capitalism or do you think this ideology exists in a vacuum?

Are you one of these safe-space protestors by any chance?
As Nik Cohen said, if you can't defeat the far-right with your arguments then get out of the way and let someone else try.

[PikSmeet]

If Trump is a fascist and if he gets elected, do you have a timeline to when we will see him suspend elections? Build concentration camps? Introduce compulsary sterilisation of "undesirables"? Begin a massive spending programme on public works to stimulate the economy? Give the referee in the Superbowl a golden whistle?

Any ideas of the designs for the Trump youth uniforms?

[ckaihatsu]

LOL...like any of thise would work! Don't you get it

Behind fascism stands nationalism
Behind nationalis stands capitalsim

Ergo...to defeat fascism you have to end capitalism or do you think this ideology exists in a vacuum?


Okay, there's no 'problem' here, since revolutionaries *do* have the politics of ending capitalism, nationalism, and fascism.

In regards to the anti-Trump protest you're sounding *very* ultra-left, as though one action in one city should have accomplished the overthrow of capitalism.





Are you one of these safe-space protestors by any chance?


No.





As Nik Cohen said, if you can't defeat the far-right with your arguments then get out of the way and let someone else try.


The action in Chicago was certainly much more than just 'arguments'.





If Trump is a fascist and if he gets elected, do you have a timeline to when we will see him suspend elections? Build concentration camps? Introduce compulsary sterilisation of "undesirables"? Begin a massive spending programme on public works to stimulate the economy? Give the referre in the Superbowl a golden whistle?


Let's not let it get to that point, shall we -- ?

(With *this* statement you're sounding like an *apologist* for the far-right.)

[hexaune]

Those protesting were doing nothing to end capitalism and bring about socialism, so what's the point?

I'm against those that deny others their free speech, surely that is fascist and reactionary behaviour?

As for being successful, lol, they are anything but! It has helped, not hindered, Trump, they've played right into his hands and made him act the role of the martyr. The left in the UK used to do this to the BNP, where ever the BNP were standing a candidate they would disrupt their meetings etc, what was the result? The BNP vote went up!
Now if that isn't the mark of an idiot, tell me what is?

You're coming out with all the liberal bullshit. Can you honestly not see something wrong with allowing fascists/racists... to agitate? Can you not see that it is vital to restrict them and confront them as a form of self defence? Their numbers on the streets will grow a lot faster if they don't run the risk of being confronted/having their heads kicked in.

If you want to support the fasc (I'm not saying trump is, but he's not far off, many white supremacists are starting to support him and the same argument applies either way) in the name of free speech, fine, but you are definitely not on the side of the working classes, who should be free to walk the streets without risking being confronted and attacked by racists and wannabe nazis.

With regards to antifa in the UK, if you look at the past a bit more objectively you will see that back in the 70's onwards the NF started to grow a strong presence on the street and they were a real threat to many workers, especially none white workers, as well as leftists, trade unionists... the constant violent pressure and confrontation of antifascists played a big part in reducing their presence and numbers on the streets. Its all fine and well now to say that they aren't much of a threat and they should be allowed to say their peace, but its thoroughly foolish imo.

[PikSmeet]

Ok, show me the link where it says that those that disrupted the meeting want to replace capitalism with socialism and can you help me out with step 2?

Step 1) Disrupt Trump rallies
Step 2) ?????
Step 3) socialism

[hexaune]

LOL...like any of thise would work! Don't you get it

Behind fascism stands nationalism
Behind nationalis stands capitalsim

Ergo...to defeat fascism you have to end capitalism or do you think this ideology exists in a vacuum?

Are you one of these safe-space protestors by any chance?
As Nik Cohen said, if you can't defeat the far-right with your arguments then get out of the way and let someone else try.

You can at the very least render fascism impotent without ending capitalism. We will be in a much weaker position to bring about the end of capitalism under fascism, or even just if fascists have a strong presence on the street.

Also how the fuck are you meant to defeat a fist in someones face with words?!?! That is the reality to many if fascists are left unconfronted. Should minorities and workers not be defended? How do we stand a chance to fight capitalism if we can't even work the fucking streets safely?

[PikSmeet]

You're coming out with all the liberal bullshit. Can you honestly not see something wrong with allowing fascists/racists... to agitate? Can you not see that it is vital to restrict them and confront them as a form of self defence? Their numbers on the streets will grow a lot faster if they don't run the risk of being confronted/having their heads kicked in.

If you want to support the fasc (I'm not saying trump is, but he's not far off, many white supremacists are starting to support him and the same argument applies either way) in the name of free speech, fine, but you are definitely not on the side of the working classes, who should be free to walk the streets without risking being confronted and attacked by racists and wannabe nazis.

With regards to antifa in the UK, if you look at the past a bit more objectively you will see that back in the 70's onwards the NF started to grow a strong presence on the street and they were a real threat to many workers, especially none white workers, as well as leftists, trade unionists... the constant violent pressure and confrontation of antifascists played a big part in reducing their presence and numbers on the streets. Its all fine and well now to say that they aren't much of a threat and they should be allowed to say their peace, but its thoroughly foolish imo.

You are the one coming out with the BS
Yep, I remember the 70s the ANL etc but where is your proof that they defeated the far-right?
All you have is a post hoc ergo proper hoc argument.
The ANL and rock against racism were fronts for the SWP, all that happened was that money went into their pockets.
Surely it was the dismal performance of their own candidates and their lack of sound arguments about how to solve the
Problems of capitalism that put paid to the NF and to the BNP. As they say in Trumps country “give ‘em enough rope and they’ll hang
Themselves” Best way, let the far-right, which Trump doesn’t belong to, speak and argue with them. Denying them this right just plays
right into their hands. How idiotic would that be, all that sound & fury for nothing?
Trump will be laughing all the way to the ballot box, he’ll probably send those arrested trying to stop his rally and thank you card...at their prison!

[PikSmeet]

You can at the very least render fascism impotent without ending capitalism. We will be in a much weaker position to bring about the end of capitalism under fascism, or even just if fascists have a strong presence on the street.

Also how the fuck are you meant to defeat a fist in someones face with words?!?! That is the reality to many if fascists are left unconfronted. Should minorities and workers not be defended? How do we stand a chance to fight capitalism if we can't even work the fucking streets safely?

Link to where one of Trumps supporters either punched a worker in the face at Trumps request.
Laughing hard here, as do you really think this lot are going to stop Trump?

[hexaune]

Ok, show me the link where it says that those that disrupted the meeting want to replace capitalism with socialism and can you help me out with step 2?

Step 1) Disrupt Trump rallies
Step 2) ?????
Step 3) socialism

Fuck me, its painful trying to discuss anything with you, you are willfully missing the point.

I am not arguing that impeeding rascists and fascists will lead to communism. With regards to your point that it has nothing to do with bringing about communism, my argument is that without doing so it will be a hell of a lot harder to bring it about.

My second point being that it is wrong for minorities, homosexuals, trade unionists, workers... to have to work the streets whilst risking being attacked by the far right. That is the reality of leaving them unconfronted, we have the right to self defences, if you can't see that you as bad as them.

[PikSmeet]

Fuck me, its painful trying to discuss anything with you, you are willfully missing the point.

I am not arguing that impeeding rascists and fascists will lead to communism. With regards to your point that it has nothing to do with bringing about communism, my argument is that without doing so it will be a hell of a lot harder to bring it about.

My second point being that it is wrong for minorities, homosexuals, trade unionists, workers... to have to work the streets whilst risking being attacked by the far right. That is the reality of leaving them unconfronted, we have the right to self defences, if you can't see that you as bad as them.

Again a link please that shows that Trump has made the streets unsafe for those you list to walk. Thanking you in advance.

[hexaune]

Link to where one of Trumps supporters either punched a worker in the face at Trumps request.
Laughing hard here, as do you really think this lot are going to stop Trump?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/mar/10/donald-trump-rally-black-man-sucker-punch-north-carolina-video

Although trump hasn't ordered that man or asked him to punch that protester in the face unprovoked, he has created an environment where that rascist prick feels like he can get away with it. That is what needs challenging, with actions, on the streets. Trump has also since stated he is looking into paying that guys fucking legal fees, Can't you see that you are taking a seriously anti worker stance on this?

[PikSmeet]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/mar/10/donald-trump-rally-black-man-sucker-punch-north-carolina-video

Although trump hasn't ordered that man or asked him to punch that protester in the face unprovoked, he has created an environment where that rascist prick feels like he can get away with it. That is what needs challenging, with actions, on the streets. Trump has also since stated he is looking into paying that guys fucking legal fees, Can't you see that you are taking a seriously anti worker stance on this?

Thank you for proving my point, Trump did not ask or want him to do that.
Or are you now saying that Trump is responsible for the behaviour of everyone of his supporters?
I know of no political party that does not have, or has had some real ***** in it's ranks.
Link please that proves your point about Trump creating this environment.

[hexaune]

Again a link please that shows that Trump has made the streets unsafe for those you list to walk. Thanking you in advance.

Its pretty obvious tha trumps rascist rhetoric will lead to those consequences, you are showing a real lack of understaning of how the far right work.

More and more white supremacist groups are starting to back trump, including david duke of kkk which was all over the news not long ago, they are feeding and growing off his rhetoric, if you can't see what danger that could start to pose you really shouldn't be on the site.

[PikSmeet]

Its pretty obvious tha trumps rascist rhetoric will lead to those consequences, you are showing a real lack of understaning of how the far right work.

More and more white supremacist groups are starting to back trump, including david duke of kkk which was all over the news not long ago, they are feeding and growing off his rhetoric, if you can't see what danger that could start to pose you really shouldn't be on the site.

As I asked earlier, timeline & description of these dangers please. Without any personal insults, I mean that is not too much to ask, right?
I know the dangers capitalism poses to the working class, now they are obvious. They are more responsible for any climate of hate & fear than Trump is.

[hexaune]

Thank you for proving my point, Trump did not ask or want him to do that.
Or are you now saying that Trump is responsible for the behaviour of everyone of his supporters?
I know of no political party that does not have, or has had some real ***** in it's ranks.
Link please that proves your point about Trump creating this environment.

I fucking said that he did not ask him to and you have not refuted any of my post. Trump is the first GOP front runner in my living memory that has had the support/endorsement of white supremascist groups.

How about you give me some sound arguments as to how he is not creating such an environment?

[PikSmeet]

I fucking said that he did not ask him to and you have not refuted any of my post. Trump is the first GOP front runner in my living memory that has had the support/endorsement of white supremascist groups.

How about you give me some sound arguments as to how he is not creating such an environment?

Sure, as under capitalism the working class do not own the means of production, they do not control trade routs and they do not own their country.
As a result no matter where they live in the globe they are forced to sell their labour power for a wage or salary.
But, they have to compete for jobs, housing and other necessary goods.
It is in this environment (which Trump benefits from but did not create) that it becomes too easy to blame foreign workers and immigrants for the social problems that occur under capitalism. Like unemployment, poor housing, shoddy goods. Social problems are caused by capitalism as even in countries without large scale immigration these problems exist. These problems are rooted in capitalism.

[Lord Testicles]

Fuck me, its painful trying to discuss anything with you, you are willfully missing the point.

That's because he is, probably because he's a right wing troll.

[PikSmeet]

That's because he is, probably because he's a right wing troll.

My stalker has woken up.

[ckaihatsu]

As I asked earlier, timeline & description of these dangers please. Without any personal insults, I mean that is not too much to ask, right?


What do 'personal insults' have to do with anything -- ? -- !

Why would you even *mention* 'personal insults' -- ?





I know the dangers capitalism poses to the working class, now they are obvious. They are more responsible for any climate of hate & fear than Trump is.


You're not understanding that Trump, et al, are / would bring-about a more *dangerous* version of capitalism, as bad as it is already.

[PikSmeet]

What do 'personal insults' have to do with anything -- ? -- !

Why would you even *mention* 'personal insults' -- ?





You're not understanding that Trump, et al, are / would bring-about a more *dangerous* version of capitalism, as bad as it is already.


Give me the links and the timeline to this then please.
A link to the economic textbook that shows that the capitalist system takes any notice as to whom is in the White House.

[Lord Testicles]

My stalker has woken up.

If pointing out that you're a troll and telling you to fuck off makes me a stalker then so be it. How about you cry some more about how denying Trump a platform actually helps him and how "fascists aren't that bad guys, stop with all the anti-fa stuff already!"

[PikSmeet]

If pointing out that you're a troll and telling you to fuck off makes me a stalker then so be it. How about you cry some more about how denying Trump a platform actually helps him and how "fascists aren't that bad guys, stop with all the anti-fa stuff already!"

Ok, anything else you want to add?

[Lord Testicles]

Ok, anything else you want to add?

Yeah, fuck off troll.

[PikSmeet]

Yeah, fuck off troll.

Haha, brilliant, what a clever boy.
Any more or are you done?

[Comrade #138672]

Those protesting were doing nothing to end capitalism and bring about socialism, so what's the point?

I'm against those that deny others their free speech, surely that is fascist and reactionary behaviour?

As for being successful, lol, they are anything but! It has helped, not hindered, Trump, they've played right into his hands and made him act the role of the martyr. The left in the UK used to do this to the BNP, where ever the BNP were standing a candidate they would disrupt their meetings etc, what was the result? The BNP vote went up!
Now if that isn't the mark of an idiot, tell me what is?This is nothing more than learned helplessness. In essence you are saying that fighting them only makes them stronger, so what does this encourage but passivity?

To claim that the left made BNP stronger by opposing them is completely ridiculous.

Also, the idea that fascists deserve "free speech" (which is a logical extension of your position), is naive and dangerous. Furthermore, by buying into this false narrative, you are essentially arguing against the "free speech", the freedom to oppose fascism, from the left.

[ckaihatsu]

Give me the links and the timeline to this then please.


Your request refers to this prior post of yours:





If Trump is a fascist and if he gets elected, do you have a timeline to when we will see him suspend elections? Build concentration camps? Introduce compulsary sterilisation of "undesirables"? Begin a massive spending programme on public works to stimulate the economy? Give the referee in the Superbowl a golden whistle?

Any ideas of the designs for the Trump youth uniforms?


And I replied:





Let's not let it get to that point, shall we -- ?

(With *this* statement you're sounding like an *apologist* for the far-right.)


I'll add that you should refer to post #42 for a real-world example.


---





A link to the economic textbook that shows that the capitalist system takes any notice as to whom is in the White House.


You're *empirically* correct here.

(I'll include the following diagram to illustrate the relative *scale* of these socio-political phenomena....)


History, Macro-Micro -- politics-logistics-lifestyle



http://s6.postimg.org/44rloql0x/160309_History_Macro_Micro_politics_logistic.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/r686uhkod/full/)

[hexaune]

Give me the links and the timeline to this then please.
A link to the economic textbook that shows that the capitalist system takes any notice as to whom is in the White House.

I'd started writing a paragraph again, but my times better spent deleting it than wasting any more time pulling together an argument for you to ignore the bulk of it, put words in my mouth, ask for some irrelevant links and then basicaly appologise for fascism. and you wonder why Skinz calls you a troll!!! Stop acting like one.

On another note, how has this guy not been banned for supporting fascism? The sparts were purged for much less and at least they added more to this forum than reducing every argument/discussion/debate to: but its not communism right now aren't I so edgy.

[Heretek]

What in the hell makes you think skinz is alone in his sentiment?

[hexaune]

What in the hell makes you think skinz is alone in his sentiment?

I didn't mean to imply that he was!

[Rafiq]

Yeah but lets hope those that oppose Sanders don't get any ideas from what happened here. I mean that really would be bad if mobs stopped him from speaking, right comrades?

Let them come fucking try and stop him from speaking, how about that? You seem to be under the impression that we are all victims here, helpless prey for your irk: In fact, what Chicago has shown is that we're ready to go toe to toe with you motherfuckers, so by all means, Trump's supporters are welcome to Sanders' rallies, and they're also welcome to get their teeth knocked out too if need be. We aren't fucking asking anything from you scum - you are less than animals for us. We are not asking you to not be violent. We are not asking you to restrain yourselves. To Trump and rodents like you, we on the Left have nothing to say: Absolutely nothing!

You think we're fucking prey, because a few brave individuals were victim to crowds of barbarous cowards, and you had to justify your might, "Oh, well that's what happens when you try and disrupt our rallies."

What do you have to say for yourself now? Now that we begin to arrive in the thousands? You've had your fucking fun preying on innocent, peaceful individual protesters, now you best own up to the reality of hundreds, thousands standing in solidarity against you and your irk.


I'm against those that deny others their free speech, surely that is fascist and reactionary behaviour?

Free speech? Let us inform you how this works. We do not give a rat's ass about this so-called 'free speech'. We will fight for our ability to speak, we don't have to get on our fucking knees and pray for the mercy of the bourgeois state, nor do we have to transform this into some eternal principle: We are for freedom of speech insofar as this suits our prerogatives, and nothing more: and the only freedom the kind of speech, disgusting, rabid, toxic and filthy speech you find at Trump's rallies is going to command is the freedom of a great blood-letting. Disgusting scum speak of 'free speech'. Free speech? Free speech? In your mind we respect free speech?

Free speech, he fucking sais? Go on, try and take our speech away. That is free speech for us: We don't have to fucking agree to any plurality of speech to exercise it, because this 'right' was one we gained because the state HAD to give it to us. We didn't fucking get on our knees and pray to god for it - we are at no one's mercy in taking yours away.

Disgusting, he comes on Revleft, and he thinks we're liberals who need to compromise with him. "Oh, aren't you Leftists the softies? Aren't you all about rainbows and holding hands? convince me!" - listen rodent, we aren't your maternal supplement, to your cruel Fascist father. We seek nothing less than your annihilation, the annihilation of all rodents, motherly or fatherly, we on the Left are not here to caress you when you feel tired of your fathers' beatings, but to crush you. So what are you doing here, really? What do you expect? You fucking think we compromise with you? We wnat to debate with you and reach and agreement as 'reasonable' men? We are not 'reasonable' men.

So get the fuck off Revleft, go tell your Fascist friends about what you read here: Tell them the Leftists cannot be reasoned with, tell them that the Left satiates for their blood. Tell them that if Rafiq ever saw them in person he would give them more than words, on this I vow, I promise.

[Rafiq]

What a fucking disgrace that people think they can step on us like this. Less than a hundred years ago our forefathers would have beaten scum bloody for less than this kind of talk. We used to belong to a tradition which was strong, which was fighting undaunted self-sufficiently and strongly, and now we have to be at the mercy of Fascist fucking rodents who think we will find common ground with them? What would our predecessors think of this? What would all of those who died fighting Fascism, what would they think of this? Look at these scum! They speak of free speech! They spew the most putrid and disgusting filth, and THEY'RE FUCKING BOASTING ABOUT HOW THE STATE SUSTAINS THEIR RIGHT TO IT!

We shame and disgrace our tradition, all the lives not only lost, but spent to their fullest fighting for our cause, we disgrace them if we slide them under the rubble, in favor of what? In favor of this disgusting postmodern pluralism which is what gave birth to Fascism? Are we to sit here and laugh, "Heh, those guys lived in the past" as though our legends were made up stories? People died, died to see the permanent annihilation of Fascism. Let that register in your minds: THEY DIED for it, and for THIS alone, at their last moments of life, they were fighting to rid the world permanently of Fascism, how are we supposed to honor their legacy if we tolerate this kind of filth?

If we are so weak, so pathetic, that these Fascists can come here and think they can step all over us like this, is that how we honor their memory? To add insult to injury, to this day the Left is beating itself up over when they actually succeeded in taking power, they forget that even under Stalinism THEY were at OUR mercy, and not the other way around!

Trump is winning because the Left is weak. They are pushing forward, and no one is resisting them. It is time we REPEL the motherfuckers, repel the Fascists, hold nothing back - do away with any guaruntee that this is a passing, THIS I OUR REALITY, and it is not going to go away. Chicago was the first act of strength, on part of this new, blossoming Left, the first time in the United States that we exerted our power over the enemy. Savior it. Of all the shame of the American Left, this was truly a great event which should inspire joy and hope in all of our hearts, and it was Bernie's name they were chanting, which means they were fighting the darkness as partisans of a potentially better world than this filthy one - how could this not inspire such great feelings of hope among us? We should celebrate what happened, we should build off of THIS, for HERE lies the key to a new Left - a fighting spirit. That means, we should encourage right now, at this moment, a fighting arm of Sanders' campaign whether he approves of it or not. This fighting arm will surpass Sanders in every way, I guarantee it.

[KaneLives]

To Trump and rodents like you, we on the Left have nothing to say: Absolutely nothing!

Well said but come on, that's a bit disrespectful towards rodents - even my hamster wouldn't support Trump!

[Heretek]

I didn't mean to imply that he was!

Sorry for the confusion, you misunderstand. I was writing in response to our newest troll blabbing to skinz. Several posts ensued before mine.

[ckaihatsu]

Chicago students who shut down Trump to march on Cleveland RNC

By staff


Chicago, IL - Student and Graduate Activists (SAGA) at University of Illinois-Chicago (UIC), a group that formed after Trump decided to chicken out of his speaking event at the UIC Pavilion due to widespread protest, is endorsing the Coalition to Stop Trump and March on the RNC.

Members not only plan to attend the event but also are reaching out to other student groups on campus for endorsements and participation. SAGA feels, now that it appears Trump will be the official candidate for the Republican Party, that it more important than ever to continue opposing him.

Cassie Robledo, member of SAGA and one the lead organizers of the Dump Trump action at UIC, feels “Much like the protest at UIC, marching on the RNC is an important chance for people from marginalized groups to make their voices heard,” and decried Trump’s, “hate and fear-mongering as well as his promotion of racism, sexism, xenophobia, bigotry and austerity.”

Juan Rojas, another lead organizer of the Dump Trump action at UIC and SAGA member, remained firm when police tried to divert the march against Trump at UIC into the parking lot. At the time, he asserted “we have the right to confront hate.” Members of SAGA feel the same way about the march on the RNC. While supporting the fight for permits as a way to ensure the broadest participation possible, they feel they have the fundamental right to protest. They are excited about this opportunity to meet and work with other groups and individuals that feel the same.

Kait McIntyre, another member of SAGA, says, “shutting down Trump at UIC was historic and a beautiful illustration of what people are able to accomplish when they unite anda work together. The action inspired similar demonstrations around the country, capturing interest and giving hope to all those fighting for justice across the world. I believe the march on the RNC will show us the same thing.”

Read more News and Views from the Peoples Struggle at http://www.fightbacknews.org. You can write to us at [email protected]