Opinions on the Syria refugee crisis?

[Lazarex]

All of us hear it in the media, the refugees fleeing from war stubborn Syria with no fate of restoring order within the country. SOME of these refugees are islamic extremists while others are just ordinary muslims. I believe for these refugees to live a better life as they suffer with terror occurring in their everyday life.

Although there are some intimidating acts if the European countries accept a whole lot of refugees. There were two attacks in Europe committed by SOME of the refugees, like the Cologne attack and the Paris shooting, and in which the Paris attacks strengthened the far-right wing political party "National Front" lead by Le Penn as I can recall off my head.

I have mixed thoughts on this subject, but I feel as if the immigration services in Europe accepted the lot of the refugees, perhaps far right wing groups would strengthen in party members due to the xenophobic and race they would want to preserve. Now I am no conservative, maybe heavy background checks upon these refugees over time would help. Thoughts?

[John Nada]

Open borders, anyone who feels like it can go in and out. Turning people away means thousands more drowning at sea(way more than any attack).

And fuck what the fascists think. They'll always conjure up something to whine about. Even if the background checks were to the point of accepting no one(pretty much what the racist US state governors want), they'll still carry on with their opportunist racist bullshit. And every once and a while, there still be terrorist attacks(mostly from far-rightist Americans in the US), and you'll still be way more likely to get killed by another citizen(such as the cops) or yourself(suicide) than refugees.

[Deadpool]

Open borders, anyone who feels like it can go in and out. Turning people away means thousands more drowning at sea(way more than any attack).


Hi,

What is the benefit of completely open borders?

[#FF0000]

All of us hear it in the media, the refugees fleeing from war stubborn Syria with no fate of restoring order within the country. SOME of these refugees are islamic extremists while others are just ordinary muslims.

That's overstating it. There's no reason to believe -any- of them are terrorists, because refugee relocation is the most intensively screened avenue to enter a country there is. More than half the people who apply for it are rejected out of hand, and virtually all of them are almost certainly clear -- they simply don't have all of the paperwork, because one need to have absolutely everything.

And the Right doesn't gain because refugees come into the country. They gain because they play on irrational fears and naked ignorance. For example the fear of an "invasion" which is wholly, entirely, 100% imagined (https://i.imgur.com/VlO7lsa.gif) (gif in link)

[#FF0000]

FWIW, not a single one of the attackers responsible for Paris was a refugee. IIRC, the 3(!!!) non-European nationals involved with Cologne were asylum seekers, which is a totally different process than refugee relocation.

[Dazhao]

The most practical solution would have been a UN-guarded safe zone within Syria where proper housing, water and food could have been provided.

[hexaune]

The most practical solution would have been a UN-guarded safe zone within Syria where proper housing, water and food could have been provided.


Yeh cos that's worked so well in the past and hasn't led to bloody massacres of civilians.

[KaneLives]

It frustrates me when I see more report of men, women and children all drowning unnecessarily. All of this is avoidable. What is just as frustrating is when you hear people say nonsense along the lines of "oh it's their own fault for risking the journey" :rolleyes:.

[Gepetto]

Yeh cos that's worked so well in the past and hasn't led to bloody massacres of civilians.
Not to mention that U.S. imperialism, in person of retired General John Keane and Senator McCain, has already considered the possibility of partitioning of Syria with "humanitarian" spin. And we should be opposed to this, because this is like setting the fox to guard the henhouse.

As for the migration crisis, to me it is clear- communists are for world without borders and nation-states, so we have to be for open borders. We support proletarians escaping poverty and horrors of imperialist war, whatever their nationality and religion- and we don't care when "our" own bourgeoisie whines that "we" (i.e. them) can't afford to take everybody in. This migration crisis is the same acid test as the First World War was to the Second International- and like Second International back then, most of European left today fails this test- in Germany, for example, SPD, Greens and Die Linke agree with Merkel that number of refugees should be limited.

Of course, migration is not in itself a super progressive thinks that has no negative effects- bourgeoisie will benefit from it by having cheap, compliant labour that is able to undercut conditions of other workers and will sow divisions within the working class. That's why we have to fight for full citizenship rights for all immigrants and refugees and recruit them into the union movement, so that they would not be used in such a way.

While opposing right-wing xenophobes, we should not buy into the liberal narrative of refugees as poor victims with us, the West, as their benefactors (and we should not believe in good will of our governments, who are talking about "moral duties" while tightening immigration laws, increasing police terror against immigrants, closing EU's borders and sending naval forces to Mediterranean to repel refugees): it is racist in a patronising way. Right-wingers are right in one respect- it can't go on any longer.The best way to help our Syrian class brothers and sisters is to overthrow the system that uproots them, in the centres of the very imperialism that incites the bloodbath in Syria.

[Dazhao]

Yeh cos that's worked so well in the past and hasn't led to bloody massacres of civilians.

A properly guarded and staffed UN camp would have adverted the refugee crisis and prevented the current situation.

[GLF]

As an American, I am disturbed by the fact that the very same narrative that inspired the racist lynchings in my own country is, decades later, inspiring the anti-refugee uprising in Europe:

"They are a threat to our women."

This is a very primal and dangerous form of male chauvinist thinking, and thinking best reserved for the beasts of the field from which it sprang. My personal theory is that it is an evolutionary vestige, a holdover from a time when tribalism was necessary to protect a village. Smart people realize that race is a social construct, but those who are uneducated do not realize this, hence they fall victim to this line of thought - a line of thought that comes very natural to many male human animals.

In any case, I can only hope that Europeans are taking the situation very, very seriously.

[hexaune]

A properly guarded and staffed UN camp would have adverted the refugee crisis and prevented the current situation.

Srebrenica was properly guarded and staffed and yet the civilians sheltering there were masacared. But either way its irrelevant, we have ample capacity to absorb all syrian refuges. There is no need and its imo morally unjustifiable, to demand that they spend however many years it takes for the civil war to come to a conclusion, stuck in camp unable to get on with their lives. They didn't want this war, they don't want to be displaced, the least we can do is give them a chance to move on with their lives and to live in safety and stability, with the option to stay in the country they have settled or return to syria once the fighting stops.

It baffles me that anyone with leftist leaning can think its right to wharehouse human beings in camps, especially seeing as we can do so much more, for relatively little cost or disruption (contrary to right wing hysterical propaganda).

[Dazhao]

Srebrenica was properly guarded and staffed and yet the civilians sheltering there were masacared. But either way its irrelevant, we have ample capacity to absorb all syrian refuges. There is no need and its imo morally unjustifiable, to demand that they spend however many years it takes for the civil war to come to a conclusion, stuck in camp unable to get on with their lives. They didn't want this war, they don't want to be displaced, the least we can do is give them a chance to move on with their lives and to live in safety and stability, with the option to stay in the country they have settled or return to syria once the fighting stops.

It baffles me that anyone with leftist leaning can think its right to wharehouse human beings in camps, especially seeing as we can do so much more, for relatively little cost or disruption (contrary to right wing hysterical propaganda).

It was obviously not properly guarded if the civilians were massacred.

[Burzhuin]

Let's see who started to steer the pot. As in Libya, it was France and Germany. So they are harvesting now what they planted.

[#FF0000]

A properly guarded and staffed UN camp would have adverted the refugee crisis and prevented the current situation.


The most practical solution would have been a UN-guarded safe zone within Syria where proper housing, water and food could have been provided.

This is funny cuz it's the same thing I've heard hyper-reactionary III%-er militia-type conservatives suggest.

It's totally impractical and, like hexuane said, flat out doesn't work and hasn't worked.

Lastly, I'm gonna say it flat out -- the only refugee crisis is in how the refugees are being treated in all of this.

[Burzhuin]

You know the most surprising solutions was offered one of my colleagues. He is actually from Syria. His solution is simple to place troops around Syrian borders and shoot everybody who is trying to go out or in. And stop providing support for Syrian opposition of any kind. According to him the war in Syria would be over in three month.

[Armchair Partisan]

You know the most surprising solutions was offered one of my colleagues. He is actually from Syria. His solution is simple to place troops around Syrian borders and shoot everybody who is trying to go out or in. And stop providing support for Syrian opposition of any kind. According to him the war in Syria would be over in three month.

Or just drop down the US' whole nuclear arsenal on Syria and be done with it in one week...:rolleyes:

[Burzhuin]

Or just drop down the US' whole nuclear arsenal on Syria and be done with it in one week...:rolleyes:
You probably forgot that Israel is just next door :grin:

[Faust Arp]

It was obviously not properly guarded if the civilians were massacred.

It was. The UN contingent stationed in Srebrenica never bothered to keep the enclave a proper safe zone to begin with, casually allowing both Serbs to make constant raids on the enclave and Bosniaks to use the "safe zone" as a launching point for counterattacks. In 1995 the Serbs used the latter as an excuse to launch a full-out offensive on the town, completely overrunning it, while the "peacekeepers" mostly just stood by and watched. Then 8,000 people were killed. While the massacre was going on, the commander of the resident Dutch battalion (which was notoriously indifferent towards the plight of civilians during the entire conflict) was filmed sharing a friendly toast with Mladić. Then the guy went back home and received a promotion.

I can't believe how anyone on the left can have any faith in international institutions or imperialist "peacekeeping" missions.

[PikSmeet]

These people need help, not obstacles put in their way. The most disgusting opinion I heard on them was from Michael Howard who said these people, if indeed he saw them as people, were a menace and would be a drain on the UK economy. His solution was to turn them back, at gunpoint, to where they came from.

[Chomskyan]

The United States/Minnesota should have taken in more refugees.

[Burzhuin]

These people need help, not obstacles put in their way. The most disgusting opinion I heard on them was from Michael Howard who said these people, if indeed he saw them as people, were a menace and would be a drain on the UK economy. His solution was to turn them back, at gunpoint, to where they came from.

Can you answer one question: Why 90% of the refugee contain single young men? According to my friend (former brother in arm) almost all of them had a military training. If you served in military you would understand what he is talking about.

[Burzhuin]

The United States/Minnesota should have taken in more refugees.
I think we should put the issue on hold. If Trump wins he would deport them back to Syria.

[#FF0000]

Can you answer one question: Why 90% of the refugee contain single young men? According to my friend (former brother in arm) almost all of them had a military training. If you served in military you would understand what he is talking about.

Because the trip from the refugee camps in the Middle East is long and incredibly dangerous thanks to European roadblocks. 60% of the refugees overall are women, children, or the old and infirm. The men who are going to Europe are doing what is extremely typical of migrants all over the world -- find a job, and bring over the family when they can afford to do it safely.

[Chomskyan]

I think we should put the issue on hold. If Drumpf wins he would deport them back to Syria.

Good luck getting the Congress to approve that. An anti-immigration platform such as Drumpf´s is going to need a huge sum of money and labor to enforce.

[Burzhuin]

Because the trip from the refugee camps in the Middle East is long and incredibly dangerous thanks to European roadblocks. 60% of the refugees overall are women, children, or the old and infirm. The men who are going to Europe are doing what is extremely typical of migrants all over the world -- find a job, and bring over the family when they can afford to do it safely.
The future will show who comes to work and who for another purpose.

[#FF0000]

The future will show who comes to work and who for another purpose.

What else do you think they're coming in for?

[Burzhuin]

I have my own idea. But since I am not in Europe I will watch it from safe distance.

[#FF0000]

Well, what is your own idea? For what other reason would refugees leave their camps in the Middle East for the camps in Europe, which are worse in their own ways?

[Burzhuin]

Well, what is your own idea? For what other reason would refugees leave their camps in the Middle East for the camps in Europe, which are worse in their own ways?
I had to spend too much time among Muslims and I do not expect anything good from them.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Because the trip from the refugee camps in the Middle East is long and incredibly dangerous thanks to European roadblocks. 60% of the refugees overall are women, children, or the old and infirm. The men who are going to Europe are doing what is extremely typical of migrants all over the world -- find a job, and bring over the family when they can afford to do it safely.

Also, I don't know about where you are, but Canada's current policy specifically turns away single men while allowing women and children, so it would make sense for many of the refugees in a neighbouring country to be single men.

[#FF0000]

I had to spend too much time among Muslims and I do not expect anything good from them.

Yeah, I figured some rank bigotry as at the heart of this but I gotta say I didn't expect it to come out so easily.

[Armchair Partisan]

It's like - what do we even need materialism for when we can just blame the Islam?

[Guardia Rossa]

Ah, Stalinists... You really shouldn't expect more from one.
I would gladly exchange Burzhuin for 870.

[LionofTepelenë]

Let the Syrians in, I have seen videos of the lucky emigrants flooding into those barges like rats, humiliating and making them less than human. It reminds me much of back when Albania was just brought into the capitalist world in '91 and thousands of Albanian emigrants flooded into Italy, Greece, and Germany looking for work. We had no choice, we were forced to do it, and so do the Syrian people.

https://mosereien.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/albania-1991-refugees.jpg

[Burzhuin]

Yeah, I figured some rank bigotry as at the heart of this but I gotta say I didn't expect it to come out so easily.
I just wish you and the rest of Muslims worshipers to avoid the same experience I had. I will never forget those black men who took a bullet for me and I WILL NEVER FORGET THOSE BASTARDS WHO SHOOT US TO THE BACK.

[Burzhuin]

It's like - what do we even need materialism for when we can just blame the Islam?
What religious fanatics are closed to you heart? Because I am atheists and again any kind of religion. If I ever cross path with Christian fanatics willing to KILL ALL INFIDELS I will be agitating against them with the same passion as against Muslims. The same applicable against any other nomination.

[Lord Testicles]

I just wish you and the rest of Muslims worshipers to avoid the same experience I had. I will never forget those black men who took a bullet for me and I WILL NEVER FORGET THOSE BASTARDS WHO SHOOT US TO THE BACK.

"Muslim worshipers" :laugh:

I've spent some time with people who happened to be Muslim, I felt they were kind, generous and compassionate people. You know, like most people are.

How you can suggest there is no good to be found in 23% of the global human population because they happen to be of a certain religion and not see that you are a bigot would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[The Intransigent Faction]

"Muslim worshipers" :laugh:

I've spent some time with people who happened to be Muslim, I felt they were kind, generous and compassionate people. You know, like most people are.

How you can suggest there is no good to be found in 23% of the global human population because they happen to be of a certain religion and not see that you are a bigot would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

My neighbour (before they moved) were from Syria...They came to Canada well before the current crisis started. I also have several good friends who are Muslim.

Sure, that's anecdotal, but it's statistically representative of neighbourhoods here. There are plenty of Muslims just going about their day-to-day lives. Their politics may leave a lot to be desired, but no more so than your friendly neighbourhood misguided Christian. Most of them voted Liberal. Of course, the difference is that those Christians are far less likely to deal with the kind of persecution and fearmongering that allows marginalization and seeking of shelter in a rather unsavory group.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

My neighbour (before they moved) were from Syria...They came to Canada well before the current crisis started. I also have several good friends who are Muslim.

Sure, that's anecdotal, but it's statistically representative of neighbourhoods here. There are plenty of Muslims just going about their day-to-day lives. Their politics may leave a lot to be desired, but no more so than your friendly neighbourhood misguided Christian. Most of them voted Liberal. Of course, the difference is that those Christians are far less likely to deal with the kind of persecution and fearmongering that allows marginalization and seeking of shelter in a rather unsavory group.

It's ok to use anecdotal evidence against anecdotal evidence. "I've met nice Muslims" is not the greatest argument in general, but it is against "I've met some mean Muslims"

[#FF0000]

I just wish you and the rest of Muslims worshipers to avoid the same experience I had. I will never forget those black men who took a bullet for me and I WILL NEVER FORGET THOSE BASTARDS WHO SHOOT US TO THE BACK.

Somehow I don't imagine my co-workers have anything to do with the guys who shot at you in the back.

[#FF0000]

It's not even a matter of anecdotal evidence. Anyone who's above school-age should understand that the world is a complex place and that people are multifaceted and complex in their own right.

I don't oppose racism because I think every victim of it is a pure, gentle, innocent creature who can do no wrong. I oppose it because nobody should be oppressed because of who they are. You don't feed people because they're good -- you feed them because they're hungry.

[Burzhuin]

Somehow I don't imagine my co-workers have anything to do with the guys who shot at you in the back.
You would be surprised but 9/11 terrorists (couple of them used to live Massachusetts) did not strike their neighbors as potentially dangerous type. And those children killing brothers-bastards even had friends here. Should I say more?

[Lord Testicles]

You would be surprised but 9/11 terrorists (couple of them used to live Massachusetts) did not strike their neighbors as potentially dangerous type. And those children killing brothers-bastards even had friends here. Should I say more?

You're on the wrong website.

[PikSmeet]

You're on the wrong website.

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/

For those that still party like 1991 never happened.

[Lord Testicles]

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/

For those that still party like 1991 never happened.

I don't care where racist like Burzhuin and anti-communists such as yourself fuck off to as long as it's not here. Also, why are you still here? Defecating all over the board with your shit-posts?

[PikSmeet]

I don't care where racist like Burzhuin and anti-communists such as yourself fuck off to as long as it's not here. Also, why are you still here? Defecating all over the board with your shit-posts?

You'd miss me if I left. ;)

[Lord Testicles]

You'd miss me if I left. ;)

Way to prove my point.

Spam/One-Line Posts

Please do not post any one-line posts like "I agree", "Good point", "Hear, Hear", or whatever to increase your post count. If you have nothing productive to say, don't say it! Notorious spammers/one-line posters will be banned.

[Burzhuin]

You're on the wrong website.
Strange, but when opponent has no arguments he/she advise you to leave the forum, blog, etc.

[PikSmeet]

Strange, but when opponent has no arguments he/she advise you to leave the forum, blog, etc.

Oh pay no heed to him and just humour him. If we left who would he have to stalk?

[Lord Testicles]

Strange, but when opponent has no arguments he/she advise you to leave the forum, blog, etc.

Strange, but since when do we allow racists to post freely?


Oh pay no heed to him and just humour him. If we left who would he have to stalk?

If you left then maybe we could discuss things without idiot interruptions like:



Well, when they [fascists] come to power they promise jobs for those out of work, taxes on big business to help small eneterprises, positions for out of work professionals, they promise to unite the nations, protections for the small investor. Secure jobs in the state etc.
Are they any worse for the working class than what comes before or after them?

[Burzhuin]

Strange, but since when do we allow racists to post freely?

If you left then maybe we could discuss things without idiot interruptions like:

I decided to show mine and your postings to my colleague. He is black. His reaction surprised me. He asked me where he can find you, Skinz, to kick your ass. Not for your comments about me, but for your stupidity. He, shared my opinion about Muslims. Would you call him racist, too.

[Burzhuin]

So far I have not heard any arguments in support of MASSIVE Muslims invasion in Europe.

There are several African countries in state of Civil War. I provided IT support for several local charitable organizations. I asked about single young men coming from Syria since almost all African refugees are coming by families. I do not know how many of participants here are men and married men. Would you leave your wife and kids behind? I do not think so.

After August 1991 it was state wide hunt for my head, but I manage to smuggle my family abroad. The idea to leave my family behind NEVER CROSSED my mind.

[Lord Testicles]

I decided to show and mine and your postings to my colleague. He is black. His reaction surprised me. He asked me where he can find, your Skinz, to kick your ass. Not for your comments about me, but for your stupidity. He, shared my opinion about Muslims. Would you call him racist, too.

Yes.

[Lord Testicles]

So far I have not heard any arguments in support of MASSIVE Muslims invasion in Europe.

There are several African countries in state of Civil War. I provided IT support for several local charitable organizations. I asked about single young men coming from Syria since almost all African refugees are coming by families. I do not know how many of participants here are men and married men. Would you leave your wife and kids behind? I do not think so.

After August 1991 it was state wide hunt for my head, but I manage to smuggle my family abroad. The idea to leave my family behind NEVER CROSSED my mind.

Your racism is showing.

[Burzhuin]

Your racism is showing.

Believe in it, if it will make your life any better.

[Lord Testicles]

Believe in it, if it will make your life any better.

Believe in what? That you're a racist? I don't have to "believe" in that, it's there plain as day for all to see. Anyone can read your knuckle-dragging post and come to the same conclusion. (Apart from your fictional racist colleague.)

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I decided to show mine and your postings to my colleague. He is black. His reaction surprised me. He asked me where he can find you, Skinz, to kick your ass. Not for your comments about me, but for your stupidity. He, shared my opinion about Muslims. Would you call him racist, too.

One of the most moronic views peddled by the most vulgar liberal anti-racists is that oppressed communities cannot themselves hold to the prevailing, hegemonic bigotry of our society. It is so wrong I shouldn't have to explain why. Is it racist when Asian Americans hold themselves as superior to African Americans due to better economic success and lower crime rates? Of course, just as it is racist when African Americans buy into bullshit jingoistic propaganda about how terrible East Asians are because of conflicts with Imperial Japan, Korea or Vietnam. It is racist when Mestizo/indigenous Latinos view African Americans as essentially criminal, just as it is racist when African Americans view Mestizo/Indigenous Latinos as job-stealing migrant enemies.

[PikSmeet]

*munches popcorn*

Carry on folks I'm enjoying the show. :lol:

[#FF0000]

You would be surprised but 9/11 terrorists (couple of them used to live Massachusetts) did not strike their neighbors as potentially dangerous type. And those children killing brothers-bastards even had friends here. Should I say more?

Why would I be surprised? You realize that this could be said of plenty of people who committed heinous acts. The typical refrain whenever there's a spree-shooting in the United States is that the gunman was a gentle, quiet person. This isn't something unique to Muslims.


So far I have not heard any arguments in support of MASSIVE Muslims invasion in Europe.

There is no such "invasion". It's entirely invented. Muslims make up a poor minority across Europe, and the incoming refugees (less than 500,000 across all of Western Europe last year) aren't changing that.

There are several African countries in state of Civil War. I provided IT support for several local charitable organizations. I asked about single young men coming from Syria since almost all African refugees are coming by families. I do not know how many of participants here are men and married men. Would you leave your wife and kids behind? I do not think so.Families make up the vast majority of the refugees. The young men coming into Europe are coming from refugee relocation camps in the Middle East, leaving family behind with the intention of bringing them across later when they can afford to transport them safely.

This is typical of refugees and migrants all over the world. It's extremely common for someone to come into a country, work, and then bring their family over later.

[Plagueround]

I decided to show mine and your postings to my colleague. He is black. His reaction surprised me. He asked me where he can find you, Skinz, to kick your ass. Not for your comments about me, but for your stupidity. He, shared my opinion about Muslims. Would you call him racist, too.

Why wouldn't one call him racist? Sounds like he's also kind of a meathead for wanting to kick someone's ass based on these posts.

[Burzhuin]

Why would I be surprised? You realize that this could be said of plenty of people who committed heinous acts. The typical refrain whenever there's a spree-shooting in the United States is that the gunman was a gentle, quiet person. This isn't something unique to Muslims.

There is no such "invasion". It's entirely invented. Muslims make up a poor minority across Europe, and the incoming refugees (less than 500,000 across all of Western Europe last year) aren't changing that.
Families make up the vast majority of the refugees. The young men coming into Europe are coming from refugee relocation camps in the Middle East, leaving family behind with the intention of bringing them across later when they can afford to transport them safely.

This is typical of refugees and migrants all over the world. It's extremely common for someone to come into a country, work, and then bring their family over later.
Reading your post I experienced déjà vous (sorry my French is BAD). I remember how I tried to convince my fellows-communists that Gorbachev is enemy of the Party and the USSR. How in 1996 I predicted authoritarian dictatorship in Russia after 2000. How I tried to convince my countrymen AGAINST joining EU. Now they are asking how did I know. The future will show if I am right or wrong.

[PikSmeet]

Gorbachev was the enemy of the party and the USSR?
Well I don't want to get into that pointless argument but by arguing along the "great men of history" lines stand in contradiction with dialetical-materalism.

[Burzhuin]

Gorbachev was the enemy of the party and the USSR?
Well I don't want to get into that pointless argument but by arguing along the "great men of history" lines stand in contradiction with dialetical-materalism.
Do you mean "great traitor of history"?

[PikSmeet]

Do you mean "great traitor of history"?
Burzhuin do you belong the NCP?

http://www.newworker.org/

They blame everyone, from Andropov onwards, of destroying the USSR. Allegedly though they state that descendents of the 1930's kulaks, infiltrated the CPSU and destroyed it from within. As payback for what Stalin did to their ancestors.

Yet do you disagree with this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism#In_Marxist_thought

[Burzhuin]

Burzhuin do you belong the NCP?

http://www.newworker.org/

They blame everyone, from Andropov onwards, of destroying the USSR. Allegedly though they state that descendents of the 1930's kulaks, infiltrated the CPSU and destroyed it from within. As payback for what Stalin did to their ancestors.

Yet do you disagree with this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_materialism#In_Marxist_thought
I blame every CPSU leaders from Khrushchev onwards. But I blame Stalin for not preparing his successor.

[Heretek]

Glad to see that I'm gone for one month and we let a bunch of stalinists and racists dominate discussion. Even better, at least one of them is a supporter. And neither get any warnings for shit posts that violate the forum rules Certainly telling of the priorities, perhaps even the politics, of the administration. Is this the crowd the administration said would replenish our numbers? Bravo, comrades, we have outdone ourselves! Perhaps a new essential novel should be one from a very famous Austrian, who went on to become a fascinating leader in German politics. I'm sure our new members would enjoy.

On the subject of the refugees, it seems I'm one of the "Muslim worshippers," despite what I thought was atheism being my dominant religious thinking. In that case, praise Zoroaster!

[Burzhuin]

...shit posts that violate the forum rules.
List of rules violated please...

[hexaune]

List of rules violated please...

They're probably referring to your not so subtle islamaphobia

[Armchair Partisan]

I blame every CPSU leaders from Khrushchev onwards. But I blame Stalin for not preparing his successor.

You have a very interesting concept of socialism that involves a dictator "grooming his successor" like some sort of fucking royal heir or tinpot dictator dynasty a la Trujillo, Somoza, Assad... May I ask how the whole "workers' power" thing factors into this equation? I heard socialists like to have some of that, though I may have been wrong.

[Plagueround]

Glad to see that I'm gone for one month and we let a bunch of stalinists and racists dominate discussion. Even better, at least one of them is a supporter. And neither get any warnings for shit posts that violate the forum rules

Hey this wouldn't have happened under my rule.

I was a...controversial admin. :laugh:

[Comrade #138672]

Holy shit. People are seriously talking about Muslim invasions here?

How gullible can you be?

[PikSmeet]

Holy shit. People are seriously talking about Muslim invasions here?

How gullible can you be?


Enough to belive that nationalisation is socialism
That the Cuban health care system is there for the good of the workers.
That it's important to vote in the in/out EU referendum.
That capitalism can be reformed to work in the interests of the majority.

Is that enough for now?

[Lord Testicles]

Enough to belive that nationalisation is socialism
That the Cuban health care system is there for the good of the workers.
That it's important to vote in the in/out EU referendum.
That capitalism can be reformed to work in the interests of the majority.

Is that enough for now?

Gullible enough to equate fascism with social democracy...



Well, when they [fascists] come to power they promise jobs for those out of work, taxes on big business to help small eneterprises, positions for out of work professionals, they promise to unite the nations, protections for the small investor. Secure jobs in the state etc.
Are they any worse for the working class than what comes before or after them?

[Burzhuin]

1. Enough to belive that nationalisation is socialism
2. That the Cuban health care system is there for the good of the workers.
3. That it's important to vote in the in/out EU referendum.
4. That capitalism can be reformed to work in the interests of the majority.

1. I can give you several example when nationalization has nothing to do with socialism.
2. Any doubt about it?
3. If I was British citizen I would vote 'out'. Since I am not all I can do to express my opinion. That I did.
4. What do you mean by majority? Let look at USA Society. We have Proletariat, Bourgeoisie, Petit Bourgeoisie. According to some research the third category is the largest one. But according to my experience capitalism is ALREADY working in the interests of this Class. What it does not work in interests of Proletariat.

[The Intransigent Faction]

That the Cuban health care system is there for the good of the workers.

Yeah, everyone knows it's all a scam to fill up the Castro Brothers'™ emergency black market organ bank.

When will people realize that anything associated with the Cuban revolution is automatically evil? Didn't they learn anything from watching cartoons filled with one-dimensional villains?

[PikSmeet]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck#Social_legislation

Next they'll be saying Bismarck was a socialist!

[PikSmeet]

1. I can give you several example when nationalization has nothing to do with socialism.
2. Any doubt about it?
3. If I was British citizen I would vote 'out'. Since I am not all I can do to express my opinion. That I did.
4. What do you mean by majority? Let look at USA Society. We have Proletariat, Bourgeoisie, Petit Bourgeoisie. According to some research the third category is the largest one. But according to my experience capitalism is ALREADY working in the interests of this Class. What it does not work in interests of Proletariat.

Re:1, true you did and was not naming names here.
As for 3, why do you think it is in the interests of the British working class to leave the EU?

[Burzhuin]

Re:1, true you did and was not naming names here.
As for 3, why do you think it is in the interests of the British working class to leave the EU?
1. I can mention Oil Industry nationalization in Mexico. The same about copper mines in Zambia. Even if you let your fantasy fly you would not call these two countries as socialist.
2. Just check the discussion about British referendum: http://www.revleft.com/vb/united-kingdom-european-t195350/index3.html

[Burzhuin]

1. I can mention Oil Industry nationalization in Mexico. The same about copper mines in Zambia. Even if you let your fantasy fly you would not call these two countries as socialist.
2. Just check the discussion about British referendum: http://www.revleft.com/vb/united-kingdom-european-t195350/index3.html
Yesterday we had couple of glasses of beer with friend of mine, member RCP USA (maoist if you do not know). Usually we discussed different topics. He brought the topic of Syrian refuges. I did not even open my mouth when he ask me a question that made me wondering: "Why all those refuges do not go to Arab countries with the same language and culture?" They do not have to go to ships, risk their lives. Jordan, just across the border, and Saudi Arabia is after narrow strip of Jordan territory. Does anybody have the answer?

[Lord Testicles]

"Why all those refuges do not go to Arab countries with the same language and culture?" They do not have to go to ships, risk their lives. Jordan, just across the border, and Saudi Arabia is after narrow strip of Jordan territory. Does anybody have the answer?

Just because you are ignorant of all the refugees in Arab countries doesn't mean there isn't any. Jordan has 1.4 million Syrian refugees and Saudi Arabia has anywhere between 100,000 and 500,000 Syrian refugees, which if you ask me is surprisingly high considering if I was fleeing murderous Wahhabists dick-poles the last place I would run to would be a kingdom run by murderous Wahhabists dick-poles.

[Burzhuin]

Just because you are ignorant of all the refugees in Arab countries doesn't mean there isn't any. Jordan has 1.4 million Syrian refugees and Saudi Arabia has anywhere between 100,000 and 500,000 Syrian refugees, which if you ask me is surprisingly high considering if I was fleeing murderous Wahhabists dick-poles the last place I would run to would be a kingdom run by murderous Wahhabists dick-poles.
I did not ask, my friend did. But, if you not aware, there are UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman the whole stripe of North African countries. Or Egypt is farer away than France or Germany?

[Lord Testicles]

I did not ask, my friend did. But, if you not aware, there are UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman the whole stripe of North African countries. Or Egypt is farer away than France or Germany?

It's would be simplistic to think that only distance factors into where people end up, there's the desirability of the countries they're heading to and how the host country receives them. To help further combat your wilful ignorance though:

Turkey: 2,715,789
Lebanon: 1,500,000
Jordan: 1,400,000
UAE: 242,000
Kuwait: 155,000
Egypt: 118,512
Qatar: 40,000
Libya: 26,672
Tunisia: 4,000
Bahrain: 3,500

Germany: 484,000
France: 10,281
UK: 8,792

So repeat again that right wing talking point for us.

[Burzhuin]

It's would be simplistic to think that only distance factors into where people end up, there's the desirability of the countries they're heading to and how the host country receives them. To help further combat your wilful ignorance though:

Turkey: 2,715,789
Lebanon: 1,500,000
Jordan: 1,400,000
UAE: 242,000
Kuwait: 155,000
Egypt: 118,512
Qatar: 40,000
Libya: 26,672
Tunisia: 4,000
Bahrain: 3,500

Germany: 484,000
France: 10,281
UK: 8,792

So repeat again that right wing talking point for us.
If you so knowledgeable how would you explain these numbers:

Syria population history
Year Population Growth Rate 2013 22 603 759 0.91 % 2014 22 810 131 0.91 % 2015 23 018 387 0.91 % 2016 23 228 545 0.91 %
Taken from Google.

[Comrade #138672]

"Why all those refuges do not go to Arab countries with the same language and culture?"That question blew my mind. Your friend must be a very smart guy. :ohmy:

[Armchair Partisan]

That question blew my mind. Your friend must be a very smart guy. :ohmy:

"His friend":laugh:

[Comrade #138672]

"His friend":laugh:He could be telling the truth, though. I have seen quite some "leftists" get very impressed with the cheapest chauvinist rhetoric. It's crazy.

[hexaune]

If you so knowledgeable how would you explain these numbers:

Syria population history
Year Population Growth Rate 2013 22 603 759 0.91 % 2014 22 810 131 0.91 % 2015 23 018 387 0.91 % 2016 23 228 545 0.91 %
Taken from Google.

You need to learn to use google properly:


The latest UN figures obtained by this newspaper (as yet unpublished) show that Syria’s population has shrunk to just 16.6m, down from a pre-war level of around 22m. With 4m UN-registered refugees abroad, at least 1m more unregistered and 7m internally displaced people, more than half the country’s population has been forced to move.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/09/daily-chart-18

The birth rate has also dropped from 500,000p.a. pre 2011 to 200,000

www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/17/438068/Syria-birth-rate-Watan-MSF

[Burzhuin]

If you so knowledgeable how would you explain these numbers:

Syria population history
Year Population Growth Rate 2013 22 603 759 0.91 % 2014 22 810 131 0.91 % 2015 23 018 387 0.91 % 2016 23 228 545 0.91 %
Taken from Google.
I asked my colleague from Syria to comment the numbers. He just said that even before Civil war in Syria a lot of Syrians used to live in those countries. He claimed that at least half of million used to live in Lebanon since the border between the country did not exist. I do not know if it is true or not. His father worked in Kuwait and, obviously, his family live with him.

[Burzhuin]

You need to learn to use google properly:



http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/09/daily-chart-18

The birth rate has also dropped from 500,000p.a. pre 2011 to 200,000

www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/17/438068/Syria-birth-rate-Watan-MSF (http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/17/438068/Syria-birth-rate-Watan-MSF)

We can shift the numbers, but I hope Russian will kick ISIS out of Syria and Syrian can come home. Because the country was beautiful when I was there in a middle of 80s.

[Comrade #138672]

We can shift the numbers, but I hope Russian will kick ISIS out of Syria and Syrian can come home. Because the country was beautiful when I was there in a middle of 80s.Perhaps they need to bomb even more hospitals. That will show ISIS.

[Burzhuin]

Perhaps they need to bomb even more hospitals. That will show ISIS.
Beside Russian and Syrian army can you name who is ACTUALLY fighting ISIS?

[Comrade #138672]

Beside Russian and Syrian army can you name who is ACTUALLY fighting ISIS?Bombing everything to shit =/= fighting ISIS.

I also think the Kurds do a better job with the limited resources that they have, not to mention many other opposition groups.

[Burzhuin]

Bombing everything to shit =/= fighting ISIS.

I also think the Kurds do a better job with the limited resources that they have, not to mention many other opposition groups.
You did not answer my question.

[Comrade #138672]

You did not answer my question.Actually, I did.

[Lord Testicles]

Burzhuin are you & your fictional Syrian colleague suggesting that people aren't fleeing Syria?

[Chomskyan]

Beside Russian and Syrian army can you name who is ACTUALLY fighting ISIS?

I dunno. But we know who´s funding them, weapons are coming from and who these people are.

[Burzhuin]

Actually, I did.
Sorry, my fault, you did. But I meant "country". Honestly Kurds deserve their own country. At least from my personal experience Kurds are the only real fighters in that region.

[Burzhuin]

I dunno. But we know who´s funding them, weapons are coming from and who these people are.
Let's start. Saudis are funding them. If you have money weapon is not problem. I would not be surprised if the weapon (at least part of it) has a label "Made in Russia". But what about people. Can you please enlighten me? Honestly I wish to know from what country those nut-heads came from.