Haiti in crisis

[RedCeltic]

While cappies on this board like to focus on the undemocratic nature of Cuba, and the United States is currently involved yet again in “nation building” in Iraq, I feel that it is important to remind people of America’s most recent nation building disaster…. Haiti!

Only ten years ago the democratically elected president of Haiti was overthrown in a military take over. The United States stepped in and helped to stabilize the situation and promote democratic elections. Yet, due to a change of power between democrats and republicans in congress, American troops left after only two years. The democratic elections never came, and the president’s popularity has slipped away.

So while cappies on this board make far reaching claims about the relation between communism, the Cuban people, liberty and democracy, let us remind them of a Caribbean nation not too far from Cuba whose problems exceed those of Cuba by mammoth proportions!

Haiti today is on the brink of a civil war, and is in worse shape than the United States left it ten years ago. People there face unemployment, crippling poverty, mass starvation and malnutrition. It’s lead by a corrupt Priest who has distanced himself from the people, and is out of touch with the problems the people of Haiti face. Great portions of the of Haiti are under rebel control, and the government that has limited police force and no military is under siege not just by previous opposition but also by many of the leader’s prior supporters.

What makes the problem for the government even worse still is that there is no aid from the United States in the near future. The United States had only stepped in ten years ago when masses of Haitian refugees started showing up on the shores of Florida.

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 04:31 PM
While cappies on this board like to focus on the undemocratic nature of Cuba, and the United States is currently involved yet again in “nation building” in Iraq, I feel that it is important to remind people of America’s most recent nation building disaster…. Haiti!

Only ten years ago the democratically elected president of Haiti was overthrown in a military take over. The United States stepped in and helped to stabilize the situation and promote democratic elections. Yet, due to a change of power between democrats and republicans in congress, American troops left after only two years. The democratic elections never came, and the president’s popularity has slipped away.

So while cappies on this board make far reaching claims about the relation between communism, the Cuban people, liberty and democracy, let us remind them of a Caribbean nation not too far from Cuba whose problems exceed those of Cuba by mammoth proportions!

Haiti today is on the brink of a civil war, and is in worse shape than the United States left it ten years ago. People there face unemployment, crippling poverty, mass starvation and malnutrition. It’s lead by a corrupt Priest who has distanced himself from the people, and is out of touch with the problems the people of Haiti face. Great portions of the of Haiti are under rebel control, and the government that has limited police force and no military is under siege not just by previous opposition but also by many of the leader’s prior supporters.

What makes the problem for the government even worse still is that there is no aid from the United States in the near future. The United States had only stepped in ten years ago when masses of Haitian refugees started showing up on the shores of Florida.
Haiti needs help and organization. It needs a new reslove and a new vision -
It needs Socialism......

[RedCeltic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 10:39 AM
Haiti needs help and organization. It needs a new reslove and a new vision -
It needs Socialism......
Exactly!

Socialism brought stability and a new vision to Cuba, that capitalism has not in the island nation of Haiti.

[VukBZ2005]

Originally posted by RedCeltic+Feb 19 2004, 04:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RedCeltic @ Feb 19 2004, 04:52 PM)
[email protected] 19 2004, 10:39 AM
Haiti needs help and organization. It needs a new reslove and a new vision -
It needs Socialism......
Exactly&#33;

Socialism brought stability and a new vision to Cuba, that capitalism has not in the island nation of Haiti. [/b]
I mean in the Past 200 years - Haiti has been very unstable with organization. So Socialism is Seriously needed there.

[Fidel Castro]

The people of Haiti could easily establish a socialist revolution due to the lack of military and police resistence, if only there were someone who could unite and orginise the people&#33; (If only Che were still alive and able to be that leader&#33;)

I am sure there must be some Haitians who look to Cuba and see what potential they have. However, would the USA allow another socialist government to be established not too far off their coast? I doubt it. I hope that soon the people will unite, the division is only holding the nation back.

[Lardlad95]

I heard though that alot fo the Organizers of the revolution are exiled right wing military officers. Anyone have any info on this?

[RedCeltic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 06:29 PM
I heard though that alot fo the Organizers of the revolution are exiled right wing military officers. Anyone have any info on this?
That&#39;s a very good question. There may in fact be multiple forces working against him.

I had seen a doccumentery last night about it actually (which is why it was in my mind when I posted this)

and they had said that many who had previously supported the President, are now against him, and most people view him as coroupted.

They didn&#39;t say much about the rebels, only that they control part of Haiti. So they may very well be lead by exiled right wing militery officers.

[Monty Cantsin]

STATEMENT BY FELIPE PÉREZ ROQUE, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF CUBA, AT THE III SPECIAL MEETING OF THE COUNCIL OF MINISTERS OF THE ASSOCIATION OF CARIBBEAN STATES
Panama City, 12 February 2004


Distinguished Ministers and Heads of Delegations:

I have instructions from my Government to speak at this Ministerial Meeting of the Association of Caribbean States, not about Cuba – which though blockaded and harassed will not be, however, subdued or forced to relinquish its dreams of justice and liberty – but about the situation in Haiti.

Cuba believes that the international community cannot leave Haiti alone. The social situation is worsening. The old problems derived from colonialism and exploitation are compounded by new, pressing difficulties relating to the unjust and excluding international economic order.

Cooperating with Haiti becomes a duty to all of us, its neighbors.

As we speak, Cuba has a medical brigade in Haiti composed of 525 cooperators, 332 of which are doctors. They are scattered in all of the country’s departments and are responsible for 75% of the 8.3 million Haitians. In order to have an idea of the importance of their work, it must be known that Haiti relies on fewer than 2,000 physicians and almost 90% of them render their services in the capital of the country.

In the last five years, the Cuban doctors have seen nearly 5 million Haitians in medical appointments, assisted almost 45,000 deliveries and performed 59,000 surgeries.

In the areas covered by the Cuban doctors, the infant mortality rate in children under 1 year of age has dropped from 80 to 28 per 1,000 live births – and in children under 5 years of age, the rate has fallen from 159 to 39 per 1,000 live births. The maternal mortality rate dropped from 523 deaths to 259 per 100,000 live births.

However, to have an idea of how much work needs to be done, I must recall that in Cuba, for example, the infant mortality rate in children under 1 year of age is 6.3 per 1,000; in children under 5 years of age is 8 per 1,000 and the maternal mortality rate is 39 per 100,000.

In these years, over 370,000 people – 80% children – have been immunized.

It is estimated that nearly 86,000 human lives have been saved by the Cuban health workers in Haiti.

On the other hand, some 2,169 broken-down medical devices were repaired by the Cuban technicians.

A total of 247 Haitian youths are currently studying in the Medical School founded in such country by Cuban professors, while another 372 are enrolled on medical scholarships in Cuba.

In light of the current domestic tensions in that brotherly country – which are known to you and which caused the departure of a number of foreign residents – last Tuesday the 10th, our Government gave express instructions to our Embassy in Port-au-Prince to maintain in their positions, working on an ongoing basis, all the members of the Cuban medical brigade, anywhere in the country where these may be. Besides, given the obstacles that may arise in the availability of medications, on the 11th, Cuba sent a shipment of 525 special sets of nearly 80 medications so that each Cuban medical cooperator can guarantee the fulfillment of their tasks.

The Cuban medical personnel – that strictly abides by the principle of not interfering in the internal affairs of Haiti – is honorably complying with their noble mission of tending to the health of the Haitian people.

In addition to this, Cuban technical assistance was instrumental in the reconstruction of the sugar mill of Darbonne, currently in its fourth sugar harvest with the support of 30 Cuban specialists. The sugar mill generates employment and guarantees electricity supply during the harvest period for the population of the area, which lacked that service before.

On the other hand, 20 Cuban professors are providing advisory services for a radio-based literacy program that has been designed by our specialists. Some 110,000 Haitians have already become literate – and the program will continue to grow. Cuba also donated the teaching materials, including the handbooks in French and Creole.

Cuba is also providing its modest cooperation in other areas of Haiti. Thus, 20 Cuban veterinarians and technicians are putting in place a sanitary control program and training Haitian staff. Another 10 technicians are helping consolidate the national aquaculture program, for which Cuba has freely delivered 42 million larvae already planted in the country’s dams. Specialized personnel has also been trained in this area.

Another 11 Cuban agricultural specialists are also working in Haiti as part of FAO’s Food Security Program.

Our country is also cooperating in other areas, such as culture and road construction.

I can also state that the Cuban universities currently accommodate more than 3,000 Caribbean youths. I am not saying this with any sense of haughtiness. I do so with modesty, as an indication of what a small and blockaded country like Cuba can do for other brotherly countries.

The people of Cuba feel that they are doing their duty and also paying a debt of gratitude to the peoples of the Caribbean, that have been so steadfast in their unflinching friendship and solidarity towards Cuba.

Apart from its internal difficulties, let us help Haiti at this crucial moment of its history – and let us not forget that the struggle of our Caribbean and Latin American peoples for their freedom started right there 200 years ago&#33;

Thank you very much.

[Fidel Castro]

Already posted this in the Politics forum, under the title "Statement from Cuba on situation in Haiti"

It&#39;s a good statement, nice to see that the smallest of nations can still take concern for her Carribean cousins. I am still waiting for information on United States assistance....

[Comrade Ceausescu]

This "revolution" should not be supported.


U.S. pushes for &#39;regime change&#39; in Haiti

By G. Dunkel

The opposition to Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide may have failed in its violent attempt to prevent the celebration on Jan. 1 of Haiti&#39;s bicentennial of its victory over slavery and colonial rule, but it is continuing its campaign to drive him from power.

Aristide was elected president for a second time in 2000 with 92 percent of the vote and has vowed to complete his mandated term. He has the overwhelming support of the poor in a country that has the lowest standard of living in the Western Hemisphere. At the same time, he is calling for "national unity and reconciliation."

The character of the opposition was revealed in a lynching carried live on Haitian National Television on Jan. 7. Opposition demonstrators could be seen savagely beating a government supporter with fists, rocks, steel bars and broken bottles, then throwing him 15 feet down into a ravine. He reportedly died. (Haïti-Progrès, Jan. 14-20)

While this beating was not mentioned in the U.S. and European press, the death of an anti-government protester, the attempt of her funeral cortege to storm the Presidential Palace, Haiti&#39;s White House, and attacks on an anti-government protest on Jan. 18 are all well reported.

Other news is also distorted. The "Group of 184," headed by U.S.-born sweatshop magnate Andy Apaid, called for a "general strike" on Jan. 7 and 8. As in past "general strikes," the gasoline stations, stores and businesses controlled by the Haitian bourgeoisie closed, while the rest of the country went about its business as usual. The "general strike" made the North American press but the response to it didn&#39;t.

"It&#39;s not really a strike," said Ben Dupuy on TNH, "It&#39;s more like a lockout." Dupuy is secretary general of the National Popular Party, a major party on the left in Haiti.

Social tension in Haiti is growing so high that many Haitians say that if Haiti still had an army, there would have been at least one coup by now. Aristide dissolved the army in 1995, just before his first term ended.

U.S. support for the opposition is growing so open that even the Associated Press admitted on Jan. 15 that the International Republican Institute, an affiliate of the Republican Party that gets funding from official government sources, is giving money to the organization headed by Apaid, as well as to other Aristide opponents. The European Union, which is also playing an imperialist role in Haitian politics, appears to be backing the "Civil Society" opposition group.

The situation among opposition groups is very fluid, with shifts and maneuvers breaking out as the political winds move this way and that, depending on what the State Department or the EU says. President George W. Bush and Secretary of State Colin Powell met Aristide during the Monterrey summit of the Organization of American States in early January and urged him to set up a government of "national reconciliation," a plan that Haiti&#39;s Catholic bishops are pushing. (State Department Press Briefing, Jan. 14)

An EU statement issued Jan. 15 concentrated on attacks on "peaceful" protesters and the fact that the term for Haiti&#39;s parliament has expired. Under Haitian law, the opposition would have had to join the councils setting up the elections. But they boycotted them as part of their campaign against Aristide. Now they can claim he is ruling "undemocratically" without a legislature.

France, Haiti&#39;s former colonial ruler, is leading the EU efforts there. It is concerned with maintaining its two present Caribbean colonies of Martinique and Guadeloupe and perhaps extending its influence while the U.S. is preoccupied in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Washington has been determined to put Haiti under its complete control, get rid of President Aristide and install someone who will fully represent U.S. corporate interests. It has pursued this course ever since Aristide first won a smashing victory over the pro-U.S. candidate, Marc Bazin, in 1990. That was much more than a electoral victory--it was a mass movement that put into office someone the Haitian people wanted. U.S. policy since then has been set on reversing this defeat for U.S.-managed "democracy" in Latin America.

Even though Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, economic pressure from the EU and the U.S.--shutting off promised aid, forbidding the Development Bank from distributing loans--hasn&#39;t been enough to dislodge Aristide. He still has a tremendous base of support among the poorest people.

Progressives in the United States and other developed countries who want to support Haiti must realize that the media are waging a massive campaign of disinformation against the Haitian people and their government.

Reprinted from the Jan. 29, 2004, issue of Workers World newspaper.

[synthesis]

The democratic elections never came, and the president’s popularity has slipped away.


Aristide was elected president for a second time in 2000 with 92 percent of the vote and has vowed to complete his mandated term.

Something ain&#39;t right here.

[Xvall]

C&#39;mon capitalists. Throw in your bloody opinions.

[Fidel Castro]

Probable capitalist oppinion = what&#39;s in it for me?

[el_profe]

Originally posted by RedCeltic+Feb 19 2004, 04:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RedCeltic @ Feb 19 2004, 04:52 PM)
[email protected] 19 2004, 10:39 AM
Haiti needs help and organization. It needs a new reslove and a new vision -
It needs Socialism......
Exactly&#33;

Socialism brought stability and a new vision to Cuba, that capitalism has not in the island nation of Haiti. [/b]
I hope they do socialize that way they cant leave the Island anymore :lol: :lol:

Actually Im having a hard time trying to see how the socialization would work in Haiti, unlike Cuba they wouldnt have any foreign companies to take over, its such a crappy country and the least pro-free trade economy in latin america that no one wants to invest there.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 12:18 AM
The people of Haiti could easily establish a socialist revolution due to the lack of military and police resistence, if only there were someone who could unite and orginise the people&#33; (If only Che were still alive and able to be that leader&#33;)

I am sure there must be some Haitians who look to Cuba and see what potential they have. However, would the USA allow another socialist government to be established not too far off their coast? I doubt it. I hope that soon the people will unite, the division is only holding the nation back.
Or look at chile and see the what they did.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 04:31 PM

What makes the problem for the government even worse still is that there is no aid from the United States in the near future. The United States had only stepped in ten years ago when masses of Haitian refugees started showing up on the shores of Florida.
Wait, so you hate the USa, but you want them to help Haiti, Haiti is fcked because of haiti, and no one else.

Look at the aid that has gone to many countries in latin america? they are still in the gutter even after aid and loans that will never be paid.

[elijahcraig]

It’s lead by a corrupt Priest who has distanced himself from the people, and is out of touch with the problems the people of Haiti face. Great portions of the of Haiti are under rebel control, and the government that has limited police force and no military is under siege not just by previous opposition but also by many of the leader’s prior supporters.

This is ridiculous.

Aristide is a well-known proponent of "liberation theology" which mixes revolutionary socialism with the teachings of Jesus. He is a good man who has been pressured by the US to such a point that he can do nothing to reform the country. When he DID attempt to make Haiti prosperous and reform the wealth distribution, the US landed in Haiti (under grand Clinton, liberal etc), and replaced Aristide with a military junta under Cedras. It then "revised" Aristide&#39;s beliefs to fit their needs, and returned him. If he steps out of line, he is out by force of US.

The North of Haiti (the part which is revolting) is the "rich" part of Haiti. The country has been in civil war (or on the brink of) for many years now. The South being supportive of Aristide, and being the poor. And the North being opposed to Aristide, and being the rich. The leader of the "revolution" itself is an owner of 15 sweatshops in Haiti.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 06:58 AM
Or look at chile and see the what they did.
The policies of Augusto Pinochet may have increased the economy, but they also increased unemployment, inequality, and destroyed any hope for Human Rights.

Cuba > Chile

[el_profe]

Originally posted by LuZhiming+Feb 25 2004, 09:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LuZhiming @ Feb 25 2004, 09:55 PM)
[email protected] 24 2004, 06:58 AM
Or look at chile and see the what they did.
The policies of Augusto Pinochet may have increased the economy, but they also increased unemployment, inequality, and destroyed any hope for Human Rights.

Cuba > Chile [/b]
yes, pinochet violated human rights, but he is now long gone and chile kept the same economic policies of a more free trade economy and look what happened. Theyr are the best country in Latin America.
Haiti has the lowest economic freedom in latin america and the caribbean and look how they are doing.

[Osman Ghazi]

Haiti has the lowest economic freedom in latin america and the caribbean and look how they are doing.

Cuba has the least economic freedom, you tard.

[LuZhiming]

yes, pinochet violated human rights, but he is now long gone and chile kept the same economic policies of a more free trade economy and look what happened. Theyr are the best country in Latin America.

First, I really would like to know what exactly Pinochet has to do with this. Pinochet lost his control by 1989, the current economic state is much to the credit of the subsequent leaders. In fact, Pinochet did a horrible job. Between 1972 and 1987, Chile&#39;s GNP per capita fell 6.4 percent. Pinochet wasn&#39;t even able to get the economy at the rate it had been in 1973, with its per capita GDP at about &#036;3,600. In fact, in took as far as 1993, for Chile&#39;s to be at just &#036;3,170. Pinochet did so horribly, that he had to again raise a state of siege in 1984. He instituted all of the inequality that rightwingers love. He privatized welfare and social programs, destroyed trade unions, and participated in this "free trade" concept that always manages to screw over the workers. Chile would seem like a rich country...for some. Sure, there were some rich people who benefitted enormously from Pinochet&#39;s policies. But crumbs were for the rest. In 1989 the majority of Chilean workers were earning less than those in 1973. Chileans could also brag about the accomplishment of making Chile the most inequal country in the continent. The richest 10% of Chile&#39;s population took in a massive 46.8% of the national income. Another thing rightwingers seem to love doing: Heavily polluting the enviornment&#33; Pinochet was good at that. Pinochet made sure to take all the lands from peasents and give them back to rich businessmen, I&#39;m sure they people benefitted from that. Did I mention that Pinochet himself was much worse than the Chicago boys? He was completely incompetent, inflation in 1975 was 341%. And Chile had quite a lot of benefits. The World Bank and IMF made huge loans to Chile, while Cuba for example in fact had exactly nil access to such loans. Chile didn&#39;t suffer the sort of economic strangulation or international terrorism that Cuba was subjected to either. One of the Chicago Boys&#39; methods to cut inflation was to heavily reduce the money supply and government spending. That worked very well in cutting inflation. It also increased unemployment from 9.1% to 18.7% just between 1974 and 1975. Things became even worse, at one point in 1983 Chile&#39;s unemployment rate was 34.6%. Chile poverty rate in 1989 was at 41.2%. And output predictably fell 12.9%. Chile&#39;s standard of living was destroyed under Pinochet. In 1970, labors share of the national income was 52.3%. By 1989 it was 30.7%. Almost every year, Chile&#39;s minimum wages declined, there was a massive difference in the amount in the years 1980 and 1987. Chileans amount of calories in a daily diet also sharply decreased. By 1988, 40% of Chileans did not have adequate housing. Chile wasn&#39;t so great in the concentration of export by the main industry. By 1988, 2 firms controlled 90% of the paper and cellulose export industy. For chemical industries, 2 firms had 71.4%. Two industries were at 70.2% in wine and beverage. Five forest products industries owned 78.4%. Six food firms ranked at 67.3%. Six fishing product industries had 51.1%. Seven mining industries had 97.1%. Seven wood industries owned 78.6%. Eight agricultural industries had 80.6%. This is massive inequality we are talking about here&#33; How did Chile become such a model for the opposite of equality? Well, 80% of its growth was in marketing and financial services, that doesn&#39;t help the people much....

So basically all of the advancements in Chile are not due to Pinochet. And even the advancements today, should not be overated as they often are. For Capitalist nations the economy is a strong focus, and Chile&#39;s economic growth is still one of the lowest in Latin America. The enviorment is atrocious. There is still massive poverty and inequality. And many of Chile&#39;s businesses are foreign owned, which means Chile doesn&#39;t make much profits off of them. Looks like Salvador Allende had the right idea.

Cuba > Chile


Haiti has the lowest economic freedom in latin america and the caribbean and look how they are doing.

The very idea that you would blame this on economic freedom is shocking to me. Haiti is poor because of French intervention and financial demands, U.S. intervention, and dictators.(Namely the Duvaliers) Aristide did in fact make very impressive advancements in the early 90&#39;s. That all ended when the U.S. ensured he wouldn&#39;t be too progressive. Look how Cuba is doing. Its health system doesn&#39;t even have a rival in the region, its literacy rate is the highest in the region, its education system is the freest and most efficient, its aid to other countries is outstanding, and in the field of equality, no country comes even close to Cuba.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

This is ridiculous.

Aristide is a well-known proponent of "liberation theology" which mixes revolutionary socialism with the teachings of Jesus. He is a good man who has been pressured by the US to such a point that he can do nothing to reform the country. When he DID attempt to make Haiti prosperous and reform the wealth distribution, the US landed in Haiti (under grand Clinton, liberal etc), and replaced Aristide with a military junta under Cedras. It then "revised" Aristide&#39;s beliefs to fit their needs, and returned him. If he steps out of line, he is out by force of US.

The North of Haiti (the part which is revolting) is the "rich" part of Haiti. The country has been in civil war (or on the brink of) for many years now. The South being supportive of Aristide, and being the poor. And the North being opposed to Aristide, and being the rich. The leader of the "revolution" itself is an owner of 15 sweatshops in Haiti.



I completly agree with this.To support a revolution because it is a revolution is absurd.Do not forget that there have been many reactionary revolutions and revolts in history.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 06:19 AM

yes, pinochet violated human rights, but he is now long gone and chile kept the same economic policies of a more free trade economy and look what happened. Theyr are the best country in Latin America.

First, I really would like to know what exactly Pinochet has to do with this. Pinochet lost his control by 1989, the current economic state is much to the credit of the subsequent leaders. In fact, Pinochet did a horrible job. Between 1972 and 1987, Chile&#39;s GNP per capita fell 6.4 percent. Pinochet wasn&#39;t even able to get the economy at the rate it had been in 1973, with its per capita GDP at about &#036;3,600. In fact, in took as far as 1993, for Chile&#39;s to be at just &#036;3,170. Pinochet did so horribly, that he had to again raise a state of siege in 1984. He instituted all of the inequality that rightwingers love. He privatized welfare and social programs, destroyed trade unions, and participated in this "free trade" concept that always manages to screw over the workers. Chile would seem like a rich country...for some. Sure, there were some rich people who benefitted enormously from Pinochet&#39;s policies. But crumbs were for the rest. In 1989 the majority of Chilean workers were earning less than those in 1973. Chileans could also brag about the accomplishment of making Chile the most inequal country in the continent. The richest 10% of Chile&#39;s population took in a massive 46.8% of the national income. Another thing rightwingers seem to love doing: Heavily polluting the enviornment&#33; Pinochet was good at that. Pinochet made sure to take all the lands from peasents and give them back to rich businessmen, I&#39;m sure they people benefitted from that. Did I mention that Pinochet himself was much worse than the Chicago boys? He was completely incompetent, inflation in 1975 was 341%. And Chile had quite a lot of benefits. The World Bank and IMF made huge loans to Chile, while Cuba for example in fact had exactly nil access to such loans. Chile didn&#39;t suffer the sort of economic strangulation or international terrorism that Cuba was subjected to either. One of the Chicago Boys&#39; methods to cut inflation was to heavily reduce the money supply and government spending. That worked very well in cutting inflation. It also increased unemployment from 9.1% to 18.7% just between 1974 and 1975. Things became even worse, at one point in 1983 Chile&#39;s unemployment rate was 34.6%. Chile poverty rate in 1989 was at 41.2%. And output predictably fell 12.9%. Chile&#39;s standard of living was destroyed under Pinochet. In 1970, labors share of the national income was 52.3%. By 1989 it was 30.7%. Almost every year, Chile&#39;s minimum wages declined, there was a massive difference in the amount in the years 1980 and 1987. Chileans amount of calories in a daily diet also sharply decreased. By 1988, 40% of Chileans did not have adequate housing. Chile wasn&#39;t so great in the concentration of export by the main industry. By 1988, 2 firms controlled 90% of the paper and cellulose export industy. For chemical industries, 2 firms had 71.4%. Two industries were at 70.2% in wine and beverage. Five forest products industries owned 78.4%. Six food firms ranked at 67.3%. Six fishing product industries had 51.1%. Seven mining industries had 97.1%. Seven wood industries owned 78.6%. Eight agricultural industries had 80.6%. This is massive inequality we are talking about here&#33; How did Chile become such a model for the opposite of equality? Well, 80% of its growth was in marketing and financial services, that doesn&#39;t help the people much....

So basically all of the advancements in Chile are not due to Pinochet. And even the advancements today, should not be overated as they often are. For Capitalist nations the economy is a strong focus, and Chile&#39;s economic growth is still one of the lowest in Latin America. The enviorment is atrocious. There is still massive poverty and inequality. And many of Chile&#39;s businesses are foreign owned, which means Chile doesn&#39;t make much profits off of them. Looks like Salvador Allende had the right idea.

Cuba > Chile


The advancement of chile is due to Pinochet letting people who knew about the economy(the chicago boys) run the economy, no one even disagrees with this, presidents after Pinochet have kept in place the same economic system and since civil liberties are respected the economy has benefited from this
So what you want to say communism is what got chile to be the best economy in Latin Ameica?



Haiti has the lowest economic freedom in latin america and the caribbean and look how they are doing.

The very idea that you would blame this on economic freedom is shocking to me. Haiti is poor because of French intervention and financial demands, U.S. intervention, and dictators.(Namely the Duvaliers) Aristide did in fact make very impressive advancements in the early 90&#39;s. That all ended when the U.S. ensured he wouldn&#39;t be too progressive. Look how Cuba is doing. Its health system doesn&#39;t even have a rival in the region, its literacy rate is the highest in the region, its education system is the freest and most efficient, its aid to other countries is outstanding, and in the field of equality, no country comes even close to Cuba.
Blame it on economic freedom? yes that has played a big part in Haiti is so bad.
Cuba, there great health system alot of times lacks essential instruments, its education is its freest? yes the gov. tells you where to go to school and at what time.
Its aid to other countries? maybe with doctors but monetary is just not there , in fact they are heavily in debt with Venezuela and many other countries.
Chile is better of than Cuba in Latin America, so is Costa rica and Uruguay. And any middle class is better of in any country in latin america than the average cuban. And of course you fail to metnion that Cuba survives with oppresion and violating human rights, what a gret country.

[LuZhiming]

The advancement of chile is due to Pinochet letting people who knew about the economy(the chicago boys) run the economy, no one even disagrees with this, presidents after Pinochet have kept in place the same economic system and since civil liberties are respected the economy has benefited from this

I disagree with it. The facts are clear. The later Presidents had to make reforms, it had nothing to do with the Chicago Boys or Pinochet. And still, the country is not much better than it was in 1970. Especially when you consider it literally relies on the World Bank. Its debt to the World Bank is huge.


So what you want to say communism is what got chile to be the best economy in Latin Ameica?

All I&#39;m saying is that there is nothing impressive about Chile under the Chicago Boys or Pinochet.


Blame it on economic freedom? yes that has played a big part in Haiti is so bad.

Really? In which ways? The French are the ones that created Haiti&#39;s debt and "reparations" making it extremely poor. The U.S. intervened in Haiti and created a protectorate, which completely impoverished the country even more. And then came the Duvalier&#39;s, who were kept in power thanks to the U.S. They destroyed the country, murdered tens of thousands, and kept gigantic personal fortunes.


Cuba, there great health system alot of times lacks essential instruments,

Right, and Chile&#39;s privatized system is just great, right?


its education is its freest? yes the gov. tells you where to go to school and at what time.

At least Cubans can go to school for free. Cubans have much more access to schools than Chileans ever have.


Its aid to other countries? maybe with doctors but monetary is just not there , in fact they are heavily in debt with Venezuela and many other countries.

That debt to Venezuela is part of an excellent program of cooperation between Chavez and Castro. Cuba sends doctors, teachers, and school supplies, Chavez gives Cuba oil. It&#39;s a wonderful program.


Chile is better of than Cuba in Latin America, so is Costa rica and Uruguay.

Chile isn&#39;t very impressive, but even if you do believe that, it isn&#39;t saying much compared to a country that has been subjected to such extensive economic strangulation and international terrorism. Would you deny Cuba would be much stronger if its trade was allowed with the U.S.?


And any middle class is better of in any country in latin america than the average cuban.

Yeah right, Cubans really don&#39;t need free education or healthcare.


And of course you fail to metnion that Cuba survives with oppresion and violating human rights, what a gret country.

There is a problem with Human Rights in Cuba, but it does not in any way serve like that. Cuba is benign when compared to the American Revolution, or Pinochet, or Colombia, or Singapore, or current Vietnam with its Capitalist reforms(Along with the fall of free education), or any other Capitalist paradise.

[el_profe]

Chile is not that impressive when compared to 1st world countries, but when you compare it to latin america, it is.
And president after Pinochet continued the economic system that was in place, but the ground work was set.