Mass attacks on women during New Years in Germany

[soup]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-idUSKBN0UJ1IP20160105

What should the Left do about this in order to protect women from such disgusting violence in the future? What solutions should the Left offer regarding immigrants in order to prevent Right-wing demagogues from rising?

[Comrade #138672]

Why regarding immigrants?

Weren't they all men?

I think it is important to talk about sexism and racism. You cannot fight sexism by employing racism.

[soup]

You cannot protect women and gain the support of the concerned working class citizenry by sticking your head in the ground.

Asking why these men were mostly migrants, and what to do about it is not being racist.

[Comrade #138672]

I don't understand how people completely lose their rationality when something like this happens. Racism is surprisingly easy to sell after these events, even to otherwise rational leftists. It is absurd how many people fall for this.

Why don't people question the racist narrative?

[Comrade #138672]

You cannot protect women and gain the support of the concerned working class citizenry by sticking your head in the ground.

Asking why these men were mostly migrants, and what to do about it is not being racist.You know what sticking your head in the ground is? Uncritically swallowing the racist narrative.

[Comrade #138672]

It is understandable that people are concerned, but the question is: concerned about what? The sexual violence? Completely justified. The fact that they were immigrants? Completely unjustified.

We don't tell people what they want to hear. We tell people the truth. This is the truth.

[Sasha]

seems that there weren't "a thousand sexually assaulting north africans" there at all, there where a thousand people in total, a small but very active group of known petty criminals/inner city youth took the opportunity to rob and assault women.
this is a case of people not sticking up for women being harassed, this is a case of poor policing a public, alcohol filled event, this is a case of a mayor who's solution is to advise women "to keep an arms length distance of man they do not know" and this is a case of the police and the extreme right seizing upon something to spread racism and bigotry.

[Alet]

Whether they are immigrants or not is completely irrelevant. I don't really like Katja Kipping, but she correctly said that sexism is not an import article. It's not a specific culture that sustains patriarchal gender roles, it's the rotten order that captured the whole world. Just to emphasize this, there are on average 10 reported cases of rape on the Oktoberfest and the dark figure is believed to be twenty times as much. We oppose sexual assaults by immigrants just like we oppose sexism in general. And this is, frankly, the difference between a communist, who understands the nature and origin of sexism, and a Rightist, who tacitly defends sexism and points at cases like these to show that his racist bullshit is justified.

[Zoop]

A racist narrative is often pushed, and people like the OP buy into it.

Now let's stop giving the cretins attention, and develop real solutions: this is able to occur because nobody does anything to stop it. There needs to be a strong, violent reaction to this when it does occur.

[Comrade #138672]

A racist narrative is often pushed, and people like the OP buy into it. Even worse, when you point this out to them, they accuse you of ignoring the problem, which is simply false.

"If you ignore the problem, then right-wingers will benefit from it."

No, they benefit from people buying into their narrative without realizing it. I hate it when people with a lack of political consciousness do it, but I hate it even more when (supposedly revolutionary) leftists do it. We should know better than that.

[soup]

"There is a racist narrative being pushed!"

Groundbreaking analysis. Women in Germany can sleep soundly at night now knowing the revolutionary Left has their back, so too can the many innocent migrants. Meanwhile, far right nationalist groups continue to rise in membership and polls.

Keep sticking your fingers in your ears guys.

[Zoop]

"There is a racist narrative being pushed!"

Groundbreaking analysis. Women in Germany can sleep soundly at night now knowing the revolutionary Left has their back, so too can the many innocent migrants. Meanwhile, far right nationalist groups continue to rise in membership and polls.

Keep sticking your fingers in your ears guys.

What the fuck is this shit?

This groundbreaking analysis, and I agree that my analysis is indeed profoundly groundbreaking, is actually true. A racist narrative is being spoonfed to people like you, and you slurp up every last drop of it.

The fact that you are completely oblivious to this demonstrates your racism.

The only thing you've been correct about so far is thinking that my analysis is groundbreaking.

[Guardia Rossa]

This is the same guy from the "Why MRA should be leftists" thread.

He also posted "Only liberalism can represent feminist and anti-racist movements"

"Full B8" Achievement unlocked.

Edit: My mistake, he didn't made the thread. He still shitposts frequently and that was what I was pointing out.

[Comrade #138672]

"There is a racist narrative being pushed!"

Groundbreaking analysis. Women in Germany can sleep soundly at night now knowing the revolutionary Left has their back, so too can the many innocent migrants. Meanwhile, far right nationalist groups continue to rise in membership and polls.

Keep sticking your fingers in your ears guys.Wow. It's like you aren't reading at all.

I am sure women are helped because you are gullible enough to blame the immigrants.

Cut out the rhetorical appeals to emotion and educate yourself a bit more.

[soup]

This is the same guy from the "Why MRA should be leftists" thread.

He also posted "Only liberalism can represent feminist and anti-racist movements"

"Full B8" Achievement unlocked.

What are you on about? I did not make that mind numbing MRA should be leftist thread.

I also never said such a thing regarding liberalism and feminism/anti-racism. I believe that the only way feminist/anti-racist goals can be furthered is through socialism of course. My problem is that since the discourse on feminism/anti-racism is so thoroughly dominated by liberals, one of the major ways for liberal ideology to sneak it's way in otherwise socialist movements is through unexamined feminism/anti-racism.

This is all nothing to do with this thread of course.

[soup]

Wow. It's like you aren't reading at all.

I am sure women are helped because you are gullible enough to blame the immigrants.

Cut out the rhetorical appeals to emotion and educate yourself a bit more.

What am I not reading? I know that explicitly racist individuals are using events like this as propaganda. And?

That does not mean the Left should leave these issues to these racists, quite the contrary it means that it is extremely imperative that the Left addresses these issues which are at the forefront of the minds of working class people. Otherwise the only people offering solutions will be the ultra-nationalist racists.

[Comrade #138672]

After closely examining the article, why are you assuming that they are immigrants? It only said that they looked like as if they were from "the Arab or North African region". For all you know, they could have been born in Germany.

Soup, why do you think we should focus on immigrants? Why immigrants? What led you to believe this has any relevance to the problem of sexual violence? Are you spending as much time on discussing how whiteness is related to rape when white men are doing it? If not, why not? Does color not matter if they are white? And why focus not on the fact that they are mainly men?

Please answer these questions.

[Comrade #138672]

What am I not reading? I know that explicitly racist individuals are using events like this as propaganda. And?

That does not mean the Left should leave these issues to these racists, quite the contrary it means that it is extremely imperative that the Left addresses these issues which are at the forefront of the minds of working class people. Otherwise the only people offering solutions will be the ultra-nationalist racists.But we are talking about it. You just don't seem to like the truth.

[DOOM]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-idUSKBN0UJ1IP20160105

What should the Left do about this in order to protect women from such disgusting violence in the future? What solutions should the Left offer regarding immigrants in order to prevent Right-wing demagogues from rising?

Well we certainly shouldn't appease them, right?

This could've been a good thread for discussing the shit that happened on new year's eve in Köln but you really had to fuck it up by baiting. Jeez

[soup]

Well we certainly shouldn't appease them, right?

This could've been a good thread for discussing the shit that happened on new year's eve in Köln but you really had to fuck it up by baiting. JeezI think a Left that takes immigration and the integration of migrants seriously will do the exact opposite of appeasing the far Right, it would completely neuter them. What appeases the Right is for Leftists to stick their fingers in their ears on the issue, as we are seeing right now in Europe.

I agree, it is too bad this thread has become all about me. I wanted to see what you all had to say about this event.

I won't post in the thread any longer. I look forward to reading the important discussion you all have on this horrific incident and it's broader context.

[Lord Testicles]

I think a Left that takes immigration and the integration of migrants seriously will do the exact opposite of appeasing the far Right, it would completely neuter them. What appeases the Right is for Leftists to stick their fingers in their ears on the issue, as we are seeing right now in Europe.

How is the left "sticking their fingers in their ears on the issue"? & What do you think the left should do to "take immigration and the integration of migrants seriously"?

[Sasha]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BQ39ueXCEAESOi7.jpg

[QueerVanguard]

I think a Left that takes immigration and the integration of migrants seriously will do the exact opposite of appeasing the far Right, it would completely neuter them. What appeases the Right is for Leftists to stick their fingers in their ears on the issue, as we are seeing right now in Europe.

I agree, it is too bad this thread has become all about me. I wanted to see what you all had to say about this event.

I won't post in the thread any longer. I look forward to reading the important discussion you all have on this horrific incident and it's broader context.

Somebody please ban this racial nationalist pseudo-leftist.

[CyM]

Every single time race is mentioned in connection to crime, it is a racist skewing of the facts.

White rapists are never announced as "white men gang rape" or something like that. So automatically you get a biased view that most rapists are immigrants because that's the only racial characteristic that you connect in your mind.

There was a myth a few years back that most rapes committed in Scandinavian country x had been committed by Muslims. I don't remember which country. So I looked it up. There was an official response by the police department trying to diffuse the myth by saying in no uncertain terms that almost all rapes were committed by whites, and that if anything, more immigrant women were at risk than white women.

Be extremely careful with this hysteria.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

There was a myth a few years back that most rapes committed in Scandinavian country x had been committed by Muslims. I don't remember which country. So I looked it up. There was an official response by the police department trying to diffuse the myth by saying in no uncertain terms that almost all rapes were committed by whites, and that if anything, more immigrant women were at risk than white women.

Be extremely careful with this hysteria.
Source? It would be useful, specially now where everywhere people are once more blaming refugees/immigrants.

[Comrade #138672]

Soup, still waiting for you to answer my questions instead of repeating the same nonsense that has already been addressed and refuted.

[soup]

I shouldn't have said that I wouldn't post in the thread any longer, but rather I wouldn't respond to the posts in the thread actively trying to deflect from the terrible issues at hand here by focusing on me.

Anyways, there is now a Wikipedia article on the incidents that should come in handy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany


According to Cologne police chief Wolfgang Albers and the victims, the men were "of Arab or North African appearance" between ages 15 and 35, who could not speak German.[6][1][7][8] The perpetrators were reported to be up to 1,000 heavily intoxicated men of Arab or North African appearance;[9][10] however, later reports by Deutsche Presse-Agentur indicated this number to be representative of the total number of men present at the central railway station rather than the number of assailants.[11] The assaults appeared to be coordinated, the perpetrators having arrived in large groups. A group of around 500 had thrown firecrackers into the crowd assembled at the square, and exploited the confusion caused as a way to rob and sexually assault.[12] The men tightly surrounded women in groups of 30–40, according to witnesses, separating them from friends in the process.[13] According to the Cologne police report on 2 January, the suspects mostly utilized sexual assault to distract victims from robbery, namely valuable items such as mobile phones and wallets. They also indicated that the size of the groups was between 2 and 20 people.[14]

On January 7 several policemen from Cologne denied statements, that the police didn't knew about the nationality of the perpetrators. They told the press, that "most of them" would have been freshly immigrated asylum seekers. In contradiction to statements of the Cologne police leaders they had quite controlled many people and sometimes arrested them, so that the police knew which groups of people were involved. Around 70 of these persons would have been checked, several would have been brought to the police stations or taken into custody. The majority of the controlled were Syrians. Also they denied information that the sexual harassments were only incidentally, saying it was "exactly the opposite": Primarily the most Arab perpetrators seeked to commit sexual offenses or in their words "sexual amusement".[5][15][16]

By 7 January, 121 women including a police officer had made complaints to the police, including two rapes, with the events taking place in the main square between the station and Cologne Cathedral and within and outside the central railway station.[2][3][17][4]

Similar events took place in Hamburg—specifically Reeperbahn, St. Pauli[6]—and Frankfurt, where 53 and 40 women, respectively, reported being sexually assaulted or robbed.[18][19][11] Attacks were also reported in Bielefeld, Düsseldorf, Berlin, and Stuttgart.[6][20][2][13][21]

In Weil am Rhein one fourteen and one fifteen year old girls were raped several times by four Syran refugees on New Year´s eve.[22]

It seems that a lot more Syrians were involved than initially reported.

[Lord Testicles]

I shouldn't have said that I wouldn't post in the thread any longer, but rather I wouldn't respond to the posts in the thread actively trying to deflect from the terrible issues at hand here by focusing on me.

How do you expect anyone to answer your questions in the OP if you don't tell us how you think the left is ignoring the issue? & perhaps you could tell us what the left not ignoring the issue would look like?

Also what does the nationality of these people have to do with anything?

[soup]

How do you expect anyone to answer your questions in the OP if you don't tell us how you think the left is ignoring the issue? & perhaps you could tell us what the left not ignoring the issue would look like?
Well, let us see. Here is a prime example of a leftist sticking his finger in his ear and ignoring the issue:



Also what does the nationality of these people have to do with anything?

Incredible. This is the leftist equivalent of when rightists say they are "race-blind" and that if everyone just pretended race did not exist all of our problems would go away.

Do you think the nationality of these people carrying out these massive sexual assault attacks on women was just an insane coincidence? Of course not, there are reasons the people carrying out these attacks were who they were and not some other population group. The reason is not genetics or any such racist nonsense. But there are obviously reasons, and these reasons are problems that need to be solved. Now the right wing has their loud solutions to the problem, the left wing needs to have their solution. If the left doesn't have any solution, then people will continue to vote for right wing parties in ever increasing numbers and things will get very very bad for the majority of migrants who are innocent.

[Thirsty Crow]

The reason is not genetics or any such racist nonsense. But there are obviously reasons, and these reasons are problems that need to be solved. Now the right wing has their loud solutions to the problem, the left wing needs to have their solution.
So let me see if I got it straight.

Any people suggesting that nationality, skin color or ethnic background is irrelevant to the problem at hand is wrong. And that is so - for obvious reasons.

Reasons so obvious they don't even need to be mentioned in a single sentence, in fact. So why don't you tell us what the reasons are in fact, because the poor Left can't fight phantoms of their own imagination.

[soup]

So let me see if I got it straight.

Any people suggesting that nationality, skin color or ethnic background is irrelevant to the problem at hand is wrong. And that is so - for obvious reasons.

Reasons so obvious they don't even need to be mentioned in a single sentence, in fact. So why don't you tell us what the reasons are in fact, because the poor Left can't fight phantoms of their own imagination.
I mean, there has to be reasons. Unless you truly believe the ethnicity/nationalities that make up the majority of these attackers is a coincidence. Which is just an insane belief.

The reasons are obviously complicated, so I'm still figuring out the exact reasons myself but there has to be reasons for it that much should be self evident to anyone who isn't completely out of their heads.

[Thirsty Crow]

I mean, there has to be reasons. Unless you truly believe the ethnicity/nationalities that make up the majority of these attackers is a coincidence. Which is just an insane belief.

The reasons are obviously complicated, so I'm still figuring out the exact reasons myself but there has to be reasons for it.
So, again, to get things straight.

You don't know the reasons, at all. You won't even venture an educated guess. But there's this furiously urgent thing - we don't know which - the left can't and doesn't respond to. And then you go on and criticize that left for this failing.

So, either you do assume some reasons or your harping on the supposed failure of the left is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant a second of anyone's thought. So take your pick.

[Armchair Partisan]

I mean, there has to be reasons. Unless you truly believe the ethnicity/nationalities that make up the majority of these attackers is a coincidence. Which is just an insane belief.

The reasons are obviously complicated, so I'm still figuring out the exact reasons myself but there has to be reasons for it.

Well... do you think whites don't gangrape, ever? Or it doesn't count if it doesn't make the news? What do you think are the reasons when whites gangrape people?

[soup]

So, again, to get things straight.

You don't know the reasons, at all. You won't even venture an educated guess. But there's this furiously urgent thing - we don't know which - the left can't and doesn't respond to. And then you go on and criticize that left for this failing.

So, either you do assume some reasons or your harping on the supposed failure of the left is so ridiculous that it doesn't even warrant a second of anyone's thought. So take your pick.

Here are some probable reasons: socio-economic status, integration into society, alienation.

Happy?

[Thirsty Crow]

Here are some probable reasons: socio-economic status, integration into society.

Happy?
No, since there's mere words and no reasoning at all which would point anyone to even a sign of direction where to look for causes.

Socio-economic status. What does this imply? That adverse conditions of life make whole groups of people more likely to engage in such assaults?

Integration into society? Do foreign people have such a hard time to adapt to new circumstances that they're simply unable to resist those deep seated, culturally sanctioned, urges to engage in such assaults?

Or is it any combination of the above?

EDIT: And let me just clarify a bit. There's been waves of immigrants through, and located in makeshift camps, here where I live. There's been serious incidents of mass sexual assaults reported, but only problem was it was completely fabricated by a racist mayor of a fuckwater town. Yeah, no sign of such a thing. Not one. The biggest problem that was actually verified is people left litter around. Terrible thing I know.

So, tell me again. What is the reasoning behind suggesting it's so obvious the nationality has something to do with such an assault? Because, I've got no damn reason whatsoever to entertain this notion that this is oh so obvious.

[soup]

No, since there's mere words and no reasoning at all which would point anyone to even a sign of direction where to look for causes.

Socio-economic status. What does this imply? That adverse conditions of life make whole groups of people more likely to engage in such assaults?

Integration into society? Do foreign people have such a hard time to adapt to new circumstances that they're simply unable to resist those deep seated, culturally sanctioned, urges to engage in such assaults?

Or is it any combination of the above?

Look, I never pretended to have the answers. That's the reason I started this thread off with honest questions. Unfortunately it has gotten side tracked, which I admittedly played some part in. I wanted to see a dialogue between you guys on these issues, that is all. The reason for that is because I'm looking for answers myself.

I'm not here putting out a position to be examined. I want to examine positions.

[soup]

So, tell me again. What is the reasoning behind suggesting it's so obvious the nationality has something to do with such an assault? Because, I've got no damn reason whatsoever to entertain this notion that this is oh so obvious.Again, how is this not utter insanity?

Of course there is a reason that these people tended to be the nationality/ethnicity they were and not some other group.

Do you also believe we should ignore race and that would solve all racial oppression?

[Thirsty Crow]

Look, I never pretended to have the answers. That's the reason I started this thread off with honest questions. Unfortunately it has gotten side tracked, which I admittedly played some part in. I wanted to see a dialogue between you guys on these issues, that is all. The reason for that is because I'm looking for answers myself.

I'm not here putting out a position to be examined. I want to examine positions.
You did imply you have answers. Your posts are teeming with almost a conviction that the left doesn't want to and cannot face a serious problem.

Yet you can't, or won't, identify the problem. The only conclusion possible here is that you're grinding an axe, and in such a horrible way as to make this event an alibi. If I were more than charitable in my conclusions, that is.

[soup]

You did imply you have answers. Your posts are teeming with almost a conviction that the left doesn't want to and cannot face a serious problem.

Yet you can't, or won't, identify the problem. The only conclusion possible here is that you're grinding an axe, and in such a horrible way as to make this event an alibi. If I were more than charitable in my conclusions, that is.The problem is the news story in the OP and the broader issue of integration of immigrants in Europe.

[Lord Testicles]

The problem is the news story in the OP and the broader issue of integration of immigrants in Europe.

Why do immigrants need to integrate into Europe? What suggests that they aren't? Because of sexual assaults? Europeans are just as guilty of that.

[Comrade #138672]

The problem is the news story in the OP and the broader issue of integration of immigrants in Europe.That is still rather vague. Can you try to be more specific? If you think I am ignoring the problem, what exactly am I ignoring? What is it about integration that we must address in this context?

[soup]

That is still rather vague. Can you try to be more specific? If you think I am ignoring the problem, what exactly am I ignoring? What is it about integration that we must address in this context?

Well surely these rapists, many of which don't even speak English, were not properly integrated into German society?

Germany is going to be taking in many more immigrants in the future, so their integration is of utmost importance lest we are going to have many more situations like this one.

[Zoop]

Well surely these rapists, many of which don't even speak English, were not properly integrated into German society?

Germany is going to be taking in many more immigrants in the future, so their integration is of utmost importance lest we are going to have many more situations like this one.

How are you not banned yet?

[soup]

Why do immigrants need to integrate into Europe? What suggests that they aren't? Because of sexual assaults? Europeans are just as guilty of that.

1. Because otherwise you end up with crime and gang ridden ghettos and incidents like these where 100+ women are sexually assaulted.

2. Events like these suggest they aren't being integrated priperly. Crime and gang ridden immigrant ghettos suggest they aren't being integrated properly.

[Lord Testicles]

Well surely these rapists, many of which don't even speak English, were not properly integrated into German society?

Germany is going to be taking in many more immigrants in the future, so their integration is of utmost importance lest we are going to have many more situations like this one.

So if only these people could speak German or English then they wouldn't assault people? I don't follow.

[soup]

How are you not banned yet?

For what exactly?

[soup]

So if only these people could speak German or English then they wouldn't assault people? I don't follow.

I meant German of course, that was a typo on my part. No, if they were well integrated into society (ie given jobs, solid education, continuous contact with the natives, etc) then these assaults probably wouldn't happen. Shove them into secluded crime and gang ridden ghettos like now and this will happen Their poor German is just a symptom showing how awful Europe handles integration.

[Lord Testicles]

1. Because otherwise you end up with crime and gang ridden ghettos and incidents like these where 100+ women are sexually assaulted.

How does a lack of "integration" lead to crime?


2. Events like these suggest they aren't being integrated priperly. Crime and gang ridden immigrant ghettos suggest they aren't being integrated properly.

How do events like this suggests that?

[Heretek]

For what exactly?

Deliberately promoting racism and playing the reactionary tune?

[Lord Testicles]

I meant German of course, that was a typo on my part. No, if they were well integrated into society (ie given jobs, solid education, continuous contact with the natives, etc) then these assaults probably wouldn't happen. Shove them into secluded crime and gang ridden ghettos like now and this will happen Their poor German is just a symptom showing how awful Europe handles integration.

But Europeans sexually assault people all the time and they're fully integrated into Europe.

[soup]

How does a lack of "integration" lead to crime?When people are shoved into a secluded, crime and gang ridden ghettos with high unemployment how does it not lead to crime?




How do events like this suggests that?

What other possible explanation could be given for such incidents?

[soup]

But Europeans sexually assault people all the time and they're fully integrated into Europe.

So should we just ignore this recent wide-scale attack by mostly immigrants on women in Germany because well Europeans sexually assault too? Baffling.

[Lord Testicles]

When people are shoved into a secluded, crime and gang ridden ghettos with high unemployment how does it not lead to crime?


So what does their ethnicity have to do with anything?

[soup]

So what does their ethnicity have to do with anything?

The people shoved into these ghettos tend to be of certain ethnicities, what else?

[Lord Testicles]

So should we just ignore this recent wide-scale attack by mostly immigrants on women in Germany because well Europeans sexually assault too? Baffling.

If Europeans do it too then what does someone being an immigrant have to do with anything? This is just another case of a sexual assault in a sexist society. Maybe you should ask why the immigrant narrative is being pushed.

[soup]

If Europeans do it too then what does someone being an immigrant have to.do with anything?Most of the people involved in this recent wide scale attack were immigrants, that's what it has to do with this.


This is just another case of a sexual assault in a sexist society. Maybe you should ask why the immigrant narrative is being pushed.

No, this is not just another case. This is a case of a wide scale attack on women being perpetrated by mostly immigrants.

[soup]

Deliberately promoting racism and playing the reactionary tune?

How am I promoting racism? I said that most immigrants are innocent people. Thing is they (and the native population) are getting screwed over big time by the awful policies of many European states like Germany which does not ensure their proper integration into society and instead ghettoizes them.

[Sewer Socialist]

How am I promoting racism? I said that most immigrants are innocent people. Thing is they (and the native population) are getting screwed over big time by the awful policies of many European states like Germany which does not ensure their proper integration into society and instead ghettoizes them.

So you think the proper stance to have is that yes, the ethnicity is relevant, but it's because the rapists are victims of racism?

How, then, do you square this with the earlier post about immigrants being less likely to rape? Does this not offer a string indication that ethnicity had nothing to do with it, and everything to do with patriarchy and rape culture? After all, it seems that the simplest conclusion is that rape transcends ethnicity, but not gender.

[Comrade #138672]

Well surely these rapists, many of which don't even speak English, were not properly integrated into German society?

Germany is going to be taking in many more immigrants in the future, so their integration is of utmost importance lest we are going to have many more situations like this oneSo do you think that not speaking English means that you are more likely to be a rapist? Is this true for women also? Do you think that Germany has less rapists than the rest of world? Are most of them immigrants?

I am some (white) guy from the Netherlands. If I move to Germany, am I more likely to be a rapist, too?

[Comrade #138672]

How are you not banned yet?I don't know if he is a nationalist/racist troll, like some people say. I think he is being sincere, but he buys into a racist narrative (without realizing it) and possibly does not express himself very well. He also doesn't seem to listen well either.


How am I promoting racism? I said that most immigrants are innocent people. Thing is they (and the native population) are getting screwed over big time by the awful policies of many European states like Germany which does not ensure their proper integration into society and instead ghettoizes them.I don't think a racist troll would concern themselves with this (the bold part, I mean).

[Heretek]

I don't know if he is a nationalist/racist troll, like some people say. I think he is being sincere, but he buys into a racist narrative (without realizing it) and possibly does not express himself very well. He also doesn't seem to listen well either.

I don't think a racist troll would concern themselves with this (the bold part, I mean).

If that truly is the case, then I regret my lack of discretion and hope (s)he can learn somewhat from this site. He had best watch himself, however. The forums are in their bi-annual purge state and insignificant mistypes can get you banned.

[Sasha]

You know what might be more important than that SOME perps MIGHT have been immigrants? That ALL perps DEFINITIVELY where men....

And lets not forget that 40% of all women are victims off sexual violence by family members and close friends. You better be scared for your dad, brother or uncle than for arab men on the streets or pedofiles in the bushes.

[CyM]

http://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less-crimes-than-germans

Read this.

There is no fucking crisis. Even saying there is one is just racist bullshit.

[reviscom1]

The whole episode strikes me as singularly odd.

Were the mass attacks planned and co-ordinated? For what reason?

Were they spontaneous? If so how did that happen?

Did a group of 1,000 people say to themselves "hey, how shall we celebrate New Years' Eve? I know, how about we all hang about outside the station and harass the people who come out of it?"

PS. To be fair to the OP, I think what they were originally asking was "how can we stop the right taking advantage of this for propaganda purposes?"

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

http://www.thelocal.de/20151113/police-refugees-commit-less-crimes-than-germans

Read this.

There is no fucking crisis. Even saying there is one is just racist bullshit.
This webpage is not available :/ I googled the title and the page says it's from 13th November (still can't access the page tho).

[Sasha]

The whole episode strikes me as singularly odd.

Were the mass attacks planned and co-ordinated? For what reason?

Were they spontaneous? If so how did that happen?

Did a group of 1,000 people say to themselves "hey, how shall we celebrate New Years' Eve? I know, how about we all hang about outside the station and harass the people who come out of it?"

PS. To be fair to the OP, I think what they were originally asking was "how can we stop the right taking advantage of this for propaganda purposes?"

apparently it has been a tactic of inner city criminal street gangs at big events for a while in Germany, so it seemed planned but the 1000 is probably very exaggerated, a few dozen predators cooperating can hit a lot of women in a few hours during an new years night. cops are saying they identified a little over 30 people so far, 18 of which supposedly would have been refugees (which could mean in germany just as easy people from the balkans or east block who know they are not eligible for refugee status but use it to gain entry to the country as syrians)

[#FF0000]

Well surely these rapists, many of which don't even speak English, were not properly integrated into German society?


many of which don't even speak English, were not properly integrated into German



speak English


German

.

[soup]

apparently it has been a tactic of inner city criminal street gangs at big events for a while in Germany, so it seemed planned but the 1000 is probably very exaggerated, a few dozen predators cooperating can hit a lot of women in a few hours during an new years night. cops are saying they identified a little over 30 people so far, 18 of which supposedly would have been refugees (which could mean in germany just as easy people from the balkans or east block who know they are not eligible for refugee status but use it to gain entry to the country as syrians)

http://de.reuters.com/article/topNews/idDEKBN0UM15U20160108

9 Algeria, 8 Morocco, 4 Syria, 5 Iran, 2 Germans, 1 Iraq, 1 Serbia, 1 American



.

Typo.

[Bala Perdida]

How am I promoting racism? I said that most immigrants are innocent people. Thing is they (and the native population) are getting screwed over big time by the awful policies of many European states like Germany which does not ensure their proper integration into society and instead ghettoizes them.

In other words your racist fucking ass is saying that the immigrants are a problem and it's up to the state to force them through a goddamn meat grinder to make them palatable for whatever the racist fucking taste is of 'the native people' because apparently locking them in ghetto's and isolating the problem isn't a good enough solution for you so you prefer a more advanced more sofisticated method of genocide.

What the fuck do you think you are doing promoting racist fucking policies and empowering a fucking state?

Why the fuck do you think we ignore the problem because of ethnicity?

[OGG]

Why the fuck do you think we ignore the problem because of ethnicity?
You would think that calling for the destruction of capitalism would be an example of us opposing rape, considering that sexism and racism thrive in capitalism.

[Bala Perdida]

You would think that calling for the destruction of capitalism would be an example of us opposing rape, considering that sexism and racism thrive in capitalism.

Upon further analysis your post means nothing

[Luís Henrique]

I am not sure of what is actually happening, but I see reports of similar incidents in Austria (https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjk2NrVtpvKAhXDgZAKHec-DgUQqQIIKygAMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Flondon%2F2016 %2F01%2F08%2Fsex-attack-in-austria-too-police-deliberately-tried-to-cover-them-up%2F&usg=AFQjCNEmnJk6suNM-neupGUp7R5Mat8WLA&sig2=84WwRo3xnSkylJ2ZkVRMFg&bvm=bv.111396085,d.Y2I), Sweden (https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjk2NrVtpvKAhXDgZAKHec-DgUQqQIIMygAMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2Flondon%2F2016 %2F01%2F08%2Fmultiple-new-years-eve-sex-attacks-in-sweden-police-compare-it-to-cologne%2F&usg=AFQjCNF_vprp9D-zEcR85YHJYqblJ-z5Ew&sig2=Ss3tOLw8OnRa5o22MKSIQQ&bvm=bv.111396085,d.Y2I), and Finland (https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjk2NrVtpvKAhXDgZAKHec-DgUQqQIIOCgAMAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworl dnews%2Feurope%2Ffinland%2F12088332%2FUnprecedente d-sex-harassment-in-Helsinki-at-New-Year-Finnish-police-report.html&usg=AFQjCNG1M7xYHl-aiQJNK5ZKWB_FSQDLvg&sig2=lgLkPihS6U-Ch-QWdZ9ZHg&bvm=bv.111396085,d.Y2I), so I fear that we either have had a quite worrisome internationally coordinated series of misogynistic mass attacks, or that there is an even more worrisome provocateur operation going on and involving the police forces of at least four different European countries.

Anyway, it is evident that somebody is hoping to plot women against immigrants and/or immigrants against women. The worst possible situation is the autochthonous far right and the Islamic right being able to elect each other as the relevant perceived enemy, sidelining the left and the secular forces in the process.

Luís Henrique

[Gegenstandpunkt]

Many victims have also been robbed in the process, which has several reports point out that these incidents of sexual harrassment might amount to what in German is called "Verdeckungsdelikte" (cover up offenses). That is, the perpetrators might have primarily been intending to rob their victims and to cover up the thefts they also committed sexual offenses.

Which leads me to the question as to why the fuck do people engage in robberies in the first place. And I'd like to claim that if it wasn't for an economic system, producing commodities not goods, people would not consider going down such roads. But capitalism is a system where people pursue their interests against each other - I get the job or you get the job, I get to go to college or you get to go to college et cetera. From that, competition, freedom and private property, probably followed what happened on New Years Eve in Germany.

It just makes for the latest proponent of a well functioning system that has its inhabitants take on each other.

[CyM]

The link I posted, which is not functioning, comes from official german government stats proving that there is absolutely no difference in crime and rape rates between immigrants or refugees and the local population.

Again, there is no immigrant rape crisis, there is a rape crisis and race is completely irrelevant to it.

No one says "white men rape children for decades in churches across the world".

Even mentioning race when reporting on the crime, which exclusively happens when the perpetrator is not white, is in and of itself racist.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Yeah the webpage works fine now, but as I said, it's from November, if I argue with it, they'll use the date to dismiss it and use the new wave of rape announced by the newspapers as proof of the opposite :/

[CyM]

Even a few hundred rapes, unfortunately, are a drop in the bucket and do not shift the stats at all.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3391678/Feminists-far-right-groups-hold-separate-rallies-Cologne-Merkel-backs-new-powers-expel-migrant-criminals-wave-sex-assaults.html

The comments and tumbs up/down are scary.

[Luís Henrique]

The link I posted, which is not functioning, comes from official german government stats proving that there is absolutely no difference in crime and rape rates between immigrants or refugees and the local population.

Again, there is no immigrant rape crisis, there is a rape crisis and race is completely irrelevant to it.

I would very much prefer that the discussion could be framed as a discussion on crime and rape, which I am certain you and the German police are right about not being related to race, religion, or ethnic/national origin.

But I doubt this is possible at least until more information dispels the ideas that the New Year attacks were organised and coordinated, and/or that most of their perpetrators were "Middle Easterns". As much as German-born nationals rape and harass women, they do not do it in an organised way.

There are a few fishy points in the press narrative that I think would be worth questioning. Two of the most glaring are the idea that the perpetrators were drunken Islamic "radicals", which seem incompatible attributes, and the logistics of the coordination of the attacks, which seem to require either a quite solid previous organisation (and streetwisdom), or a high ability to use modern communication technology, which I somehow doubt German political Islam would have. Come on, an operation of such wide scope, and no whistleblowers, no moles?

Luís Henrique

[Broseph Stalin]

Western European governments have continually made mistakes on their immigration policies. Merkel is just one in a line of many fools.

The corporate powers that be know the economic gains of cheap migrant labour. It is no coincidence that Merkel is letting all these people in while Germany has an ageing population. The European workers are essentially being replaced, because apparently we don't reproduce enough and aren't willing to work on low enough wages. If only politicians would think about what Europe will look like for their grandchildren if things continue at this rate.

Most of the leaders who take a sensible approach to these migrants are in the old Eastern bloc nations, which seem to have avoided the worst of the social progressive movements thanks to the legacy of communism. While those in western Europe just have to put up with their politician's regrettable immigration policies.

[Rafiq]

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread regarding the relationship between 'minorities' and rape hysteria.

Firstly, don't patronize the immigrants. We have our own backward working class, and insofar as immigrants constitute a working class, there are particularities to its backwardness that is distinct from other 'cultural' groups. As far as the phenomena of rape is concerned, it is laughable that this is the result of immigrants or any other minority. We all understand this very well. The problem in Muslim communities has little to do with them as a threat to the dominant group, but the oppressions, problems that occur within their own context. We should not fall for the stupidity in thinking that this backwardness, which mind you DOES exist, is an inevitable cultural idiosyncrasy of the Muslims. It is not, it is something that must be combated by Communists in solidarity with progressive elements in such communities, who do exist.

Coming form a 'minority' background myself, with a good deal of experience with near eastern 'culture' (what a stupid word, too), I can say with confidence that there is something significant about the fact that they come from Muslim backgrounds. Don't look at this shit in a vacuum, please, as far as comparing numbers is concerned. We are all in tacit agreement about the fact that as far as the phenomena itself goes, there is nothing significant about 'race'. But denying the misogyny that plagues the working classes of near eastern origin, is plainly stupid. Even if the problem is marginal, recall the controversy surrounding Lebanese immigrants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes) in Australia. Or more recently, the rotherham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal) scandal (events that the far right has capitalized on). These were not acts wherein the perpetrators just 'happened' to be of Lebanese or Pakistani backgrounds. All evidence shows that the perpetrators articulated the attacks in terms of their 'cultural' (ethnic, whatever you want) resentment towards ruling society. AS FAR AS RAPE OR CHILD SEXUAL EXPLOITATION GOES, IT IS TRUE THAT PARTICULAR CULTURAL OR "RACIAL" BACKGROUNDS IS NOT SIGNIFICANT - but we are not dealing with that, because we are approaching the immigrants NOT in terms of how they are a problem for society, but how they are a problem for themselves and their own emancipation. So when we approach a Rotherham, or a Cologne, we don't approach it from the angle as 'residents' fed up with the 'guests' overstaying their welcome. We approach it as OUR problem, a problem of the proletariat as a whole that we must confront ideologically, politically and so on.

Before everyone loses their shit, hear me: MY POINT is NOT that the phenomena of misogynistic violence is an immigrant problem. Quite on the contrary, misogynistic violence stems from a particular articulation of western misogyny by many near easterners. But anyone who ignores the distinct character, distinct pathology of mysoginy in the context of 'Muslim' culture, or whatever you like, does have their head up their ass. In practical terms this is significant insofar as we should ever hope to mobilize and reach out to the broad muslim working classes.

Misogyny and in general sexual resentment IS very common among the Muslim working classes. This is not because they come from a 'hostile culture', but on the contrary, it is because their own 'culture' (which is quite new as far as 'cultures' are concerned) is built around a reaction to modernism. This reaction is not unique to non-western 'cultures' - we have a word for reaction to modernism in Western contexts, and it's called Fascism. We must stand in solidarity with the near eastern immigrants as fully capable vehicles of universalism, fully capable of transforming and weaponizing the particularities of their 'cultural identity' into a universalism that is on equal footing with that commonly associated with Europe. What do I mean? THERE IS DISSONANCE between western universalism and european particularism (i.e. Euro-nationalism, fascism, etc.). We must accentuate dissonance between this same universalism and near eastern particularism (Islamism). This is true internationalist solidarity. What distinguishes a reactionary from a Communist is not whether or not whether the 'particular' 'cultural' backgrounds of the perpetrators had something to do with the attacks, but how this is to be approached in practical terms. The Muslim working classes in Europe are not guests 'over staying their welcome' for us, they are potential socially-conscious Communist militants. So insofar as we conceive them as such, we need to recognize basic facts of their consciousness today: Misogyny, backwardness, anti-semitism, ETC. in the same way we approach the European working classes.

So our answer should really be: EVEN IF most rapes were carried out by immigrants (a lie), THIS WOULD NOT make a difference for us, because immigrants are a part of our political universality, our field of politics and they form a part of the social antagonism that underlies the totality. Let us for example, direct our attention towards some of the vile acts of the white working class. Is it even on the fucking table that our knee-jerk reaction is that we ought to deport them? No, so it shouldn't make a difference for immigrants. That doesn't mean we don't see such acts as a problem, it means that the problem must be articulated in a political context where talking about deportations or curtailing immigration is not even on the table. THIS is what scares the fuck out of the Fascists, THIS kind of politics is what they are not equipped to confront.

[Invader Zim]

But denying the misogyny that plagues the working classes of near eastern origin, is plainly stupid. Even if the problem is marginal, recall the controversy surrounding Lebanese immigrants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes) in Australia. Or more recently, the rotherham (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal) scandal (events that the far right has capitalized on). These were not acts wherein the perpetrators just 'happened' to be of Lebanese or Pakistani backgrounds. All evidence shows that the perpetrators articulated the attacks in terms of their 'cultural' (ethnic, whatever you want) resentment towards ruling society. AS FAR AS RAPE OR CHILD SEXUAL EXPLOITATION GOES, IT IS TRUE THAT PARTICULAR CULTURAL OR "RACIAL" BACKGROUNDS IS NOT SIGNIFICANT
Surely you are correct that cultural and racial backgrounds are not, as you state, significant -- but your immidiately preceding somment suggests (if I read you correctly) that it is. There is not, I would suggest, an unusual degree of misogyny within these communities at all. The Rotheram case was particularly repellant but so too were the exposes about Savile, Glitter, Talbot, Hall, and various other who were white males. But the issue here is not of background, but of power and impunity.

[Rafiq]

The Rotheram case was particularly repellant but so too were the exposes about Savile, Glitter, Talbot, Hall, and various other who were white males. But the issue here is not of background, but of power and impunity.

The point of significance is of importance here:

As far as the significance of the phenomena of pedophilia and rape, they are not significant. Not only are immigrants not significant, the contexts that which they are able to be rapists or pedophiles IS one that Western capitalism is responsible for (not that they would otherwise be free from such things, but the precise causation of these in this context). Muslim misogyny is a specific articulation of the general predisposition to misogyny by degenerate capitalism (not the logical extension of some pre-modern values).

As far as the significance of attempting to understand the basis of Rotheram, no, it's simply not for the 'same' reason that underlies the other pedophilia scandals. There is a (so-called) 'cultural' dimension here which is significant.

All the perpetrators in question (i.e. sydney and rotherham events), for one, were from marginalized backgrounds and these were vile expressions of a more general resentment that emanates from their conditions of life. Take for example the Lebanese in Sydney. Many of their parents work humiliating jobs not unlike those worked by Mexican (or Eastern European) immigrants in the US. Not to excuse the acts, of course, the point is recognizing their distinctness. There are deeply ingrained problems in Muslim communities that shouldn't be ignored because it would be in 'bad timing' as some idiot leftists say. On the contrary confronting these issues while synonymous fighting anti-immigration sentiment is the only way to successfully confront the latter.

Whether or not there is a degree of 'unusual' misogyny in Muslim communities is irrelevant - the expression of misogyny in Muslim communities is distinct and, might I add, a reaction to modernity. Are Muslim communities, unusually more reactionary regarding sexual matters than Western societies? Yes, they are. I say this from someone who comes from this background. It is not a matter of a cultural misunderstanding by 'euro-centrics'. It is truly a problem even compared to the sexual backwardness present in the white, black working classes and I invite anyone to actually live among poorer Muslims if they don't believe me.

I have seen it myself. I have witnessed phenomena not unlike that shown in this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDnw4Wevxs) (yes, cringe worthy) video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDnw4Wevxs) where it is ignored, too.

[wehbolno]

I agree with you absolutely Rafiq. The concerted nature of the attacks and ethnicity of attackers is not some kind of accident, and suggest some kind of ritualistic collective revenge-fantasy against women (perhaps women as seen to represent an oppressive dominant order that also requires you to 'enjoy', including enjoying objectified women, as well as the anxiety that the image of an independent woman can generate to ideals of masculinity in immigrant communities). The proper leftist response (as a previous poster felt was necessary but couldn't quite see what) you have outlined nicely. It shouldn't be taboo for leftists to condemn rape just because the guys are not white.

[soup]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35280386


The German official responsible for investigating the attacks on women in Cologne on New Year's Eve says the suspects were "almost exclusively" those with a migration background, mainly North African and Arab.

Nineteen individuals are currently under investigation by the state police in connection with the attacks, NRW's interior ministry says in a report (in German), none of them German nationals.

Those 19 suspects include 14 men from Morocco and Algeria. Ten of the suspects are asylum seekers, nine of whom arrived in Germany after September 2015.
The other nine are possibly in Germany illegally, the interior ministry says.

[Lord Testicles]

Good to see you back, updating us on the right wing narrative.

So 19 non-Germans commit acts of sexual assault and you want us to think that's significant because?

[soup]

How is it not significant? These events are making massive waves all across Europe and social media. These events will surely leave a profound political impact all over Europe.

[Luís Henrique]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35280386
The German official responsible for investigating the attacks on women in Cologne on New Year's Eve says the suspects were "almost exclusively" those with a migration background, mainly North African and Arab.

Nineteen individuals are currently under investigation by the state police in connection with the attacks, NRW's interior ministry says in a report (in German), none of them German nationals.

Those 19 suspects include 14 men from Morocco and Algeria. Ten of the suspects are asylum seekers, nine of whom arrived in Germany after September 2015.
The other nine are possibly in Germany illegally, the interior ministry says.

So the German police inform us on the issue of the national origin of the perpetrators. But what do they have to say on the motivations, circumstances, and modus operandi of these men? Are these 19 guys members of an organisation, what organisation would this be, and was this organisation infiltrated by police? Where they robbing and stealing, and using sexual harrassment threats of rape as an instrument of their robbing, or, the other way round, they were harrassing and attempting to rape, and taking the opportunity to steal some goodies as well? Or where they making a political statement, or attempting to attain political goals through violence against native German women (and were they actually native German women, or otherwise "Western" women, or did their victims include non-Western immigrants as well)? Are these men Muslim, and, if so, practicing Muslims? Do they sport beards, where they drunk, were they shouting Inch Allah or Allahu Akbar while attacking their victims? Where did these men met to plan their actions? Or did they use their cell phones to organise, and in that case, what does their messaging say?

In short, either the police aren't doing a good job of investigating these crimes, or the press isn't doing a good job of reporting the facts, or the citizenry isn't doing a very good job of demanding that police and press perform their designated activities very well.

Luís Henrique

[Thirsty Crow]

In short, either the police aren't doing a good job of investigating these crimes, or the press isn't doing a good job of reporting the facts, or the citizenry isn't doing a very good job of demanding that police and press perform their designated activities very well.

Luís Henrique

One of your earlier links about the reports in Finland does something to illuminate an aspect of the general situation:


Three Iraqi asylum seekers have been arrested for committing sexual assaults during the celebrations in the city’s Senate Square, where some 20,000 had gathered.
Security personnel reported “widespead sexual harrassment” during the celebrations, police added, with women complaining that asylum seekers had groped their breasts and kissed them without permission.
“This phenomenon is new in Finnish sexual crime history,” Ilkka Koskimaki, the deputy chief of police in Helsinki, told the Telegraph. ”We have never before had this kind of sexual harrassment happening at New Year’s Eve.”
He said that the police had received tip-offs from staff at the asylum reception centres


Jamel Saltne, a Finnish-speaking Iraqi, said that from what he had seen on Arabic social media, police had wrongly portrayed events.
"What happened was not the result of an action planned in advance," he told the Telegraph. "It was totally expected that young men would go to the centre of the capital as that is the best place to celebrate New Year's Eve."
"I'm not accusing the police of racism, but maybe they have received complaints intended to smear people."

[Lord Testicles]

How is it not significant? These events are making massive waves all across Europe and social media. There will surely be a profound political impact of all this.

Because, unfortunately sexual assaults happen all the time. What is significant is how the media is focusing on these crimes and the ethnicity of those involved to whip up fear and anger against migrants.

[Luís Henrique]

One of your earlier links about the reports in Finland does something to illuminate an aspect of the general situation:

And this happens for the first time ever in several different cities in several different countries?

I doubt it very much; either it was a planned action, or it has been happening for some years now but for some reason it was not being reported.

Luís Henrique

[Бай Ганьо]

Because, unfortunately sexual assaults happen all the time

True, but not on this scale and not the organized way it happened in Cologne.

[Rafiq]

This kind of hysteria is really growing. Wikileaks posted this (https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6342236) on their facebook page (which makes me think less of whoever is administrating that page, for the record).

There is a problem of sexuality for many of near eastern origin. That is unquestionable. I am not speaking as some white racist, but as someone who has lived in close proximity to such people (my own parents are from the Lebanon). The point is that many men feel outraged, humiliated even, to see women displaying standards of sexual freedom that are unacceptable for them. The means by which they articulate this humiliation is through harassing them, and so on. This is not a problem for western countries. It is a problem for Arab countries themselves (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gja05symHkk). That is because political reaction in the near east is responsible for the direct sexual oppression of women. Progressive elements in the near east are fighting this phenomena in places like Egypt. It is the task of Communists to do the same regarding the ghettoized, isolated migrant Muslims in Western countries, perhaps through reaching out to the Arab/African intelligentsia (who, by merit of their predicament - balancing both their 'particular' culture and higher education in western contexts - I believe can be potentially attracted to our cause) to coordinate such tasks, and so on.

The point is not to 'save the women' of Europe, because it's true that migrants are not significant in sexual assaults against them as a whole. The point is to eradicate backwardness, poison and filth for the sake of the migrant working classes themselves.

[soup]

So we already have reports from Cologne (500+ charges filed at the moment and counting), Malmo, Helsinki, Stockholm, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Bielefeld.

Short NYT article on the police in Sweden being accused of covering up sexual assaults to not give fuel to the awful Sweden Democrats and associated far-right groups:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/12/world/europe/swedish-police-coverup-sexual-assault.html


The police in Sweden (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/sweden/index.html?inline=nyt-geo), responding to accusations of a cover-up, said on Monday that they were investigating why the public had not been informed about sexual assault by men reported to be migrants at a festival in Stockholm last summer.

In echoes of the scandal in Cologne, Germany (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/06/world/europe/coordinated-attacks-on-women-in-cologne-were-unprecedented-germany-says.html), where the police are investigating scores of assaults, often involving asylum seekers, on New Year’s Eve, the Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter reported over the weekend that a gang of migrant youths had groped young girls at a festival in August.


The Swedish newspaper said that the police had not mentioned the attacks until it published details about them, and it accused the authorities of failing to warn the public before the festival that similar attacks had occurred in 2014, prompting speculation that the authorities were trying to avoid an anti-immigrant backlash.


The newspaper reported that it had seen a police memo from last summer that urged vigilance because there had been a problem at the festival the previous year “with young men who rub themselves against young girls.” It reported that the attackers were mostly migrants, including from Afghanistan.


According to the Swedish edition of The Local (http://www.thelocal.se/20160111/police-reinvestigate-sex-crimes-at-teen-festival), a news website, teenagers told Dagens Nyheter that they had been groped last summer at the festival, which is catered to 12- to-17-year-olds and whose 2015 program included performances by dance companies and circus artists.


“As soon as you came out in the crowd, they began to grope,” one 15-year-old girl told Dagens Nyheter.

The police on Monday said that they should have shared more information. “We should certainly have written and told people about this, no doubt,” Varg Gyllander, a Stockholm police spokesman told Dagens Nyheter, according to The Local. “Why it did not happen, I do not know.”

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

The neo-Nazis merely reproduce the same misogynistic honor culture they claim to critique. Let's not forget The Birth of a Nation, the Scottsboro boys, Emmett Till, the Central Park Five. The trope of protecting the sexual purity of white womanhood must be nearly as old as racism itself.

[Strannik]

...we are approaching the immigrants NOT in terms of how they are a problem for society, but how they are a problem for themselves and their own emancipation.

I was thinking that in current circumstances many of Europe's immigrant population, but young locals as well are left hanging out of the context of social production and become "lumpen", or declassified, desocialized elements. This kind of ad hoc organization of lumpen for attacks without any conceivable political goals (progressive or reactionary, even) can be seen in many other riots in recent years as well, by far not all of them immigrant-related.

These lumpenized elements serve as tools for any kind of bourgeois provocation, be it national or foreign. No matter where the source is, in each case international working class loses.

Marxists have in situations like this actually a clear advantage over liberals. They can unequivocally condemn both the backwardness of the proletariat and attempts to tie this backwardness to "racial" or national background. Marxists can support everyone, independent of their background, who wishes to become a Communar. And reject everyone who does not wish to do so.
A liberal must in each such case get out their pharmacy scales and magnifying glasses to find out who is oppressed "more": immigrants or women.

[BIXX]

Can someone explain or link me a news article that's more clear than the clusyerfuck of information I've been receiving?

[Ele'ill]

the bbc article up atm cites oktoberfest events as being a problem and not attended by immigrants (paraphrased) and some brief searching on google brings up various numbers and news articles, year after year

there's also this Vice article
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/rape-culture-germany-cologne-new-years-2016-876


Sexual assaults and even rape happen every year at big events like Oktoberfest. "The way to the toilet alone is like running the gauntlet: within 50 feet, you can be sure to tally three hugs from drunken strangers, two pats on the ass, someone looking up your dirndl and some beer purposely splashed right down your cleavage," wrote Karoline Beisel and Beate Wild in 2011, in the Süddeutsche Zeitung. An average of 10 reported rapes take place each year at Oktoberfest. The estimated number of unreported cases is 200.

[CyM]

Luis, I suspect you hit the nail on the head with reporting bias. There have been many studies done proving that most rapes go unreported. As well as most of them being committed by friends or family. I wonder what the reporting stats are for rapes committed by white strangers and foreigners.

[soup]

Undoubtedly emboldened by these events, 250 Nazis raid leftist quarter in Leipzig: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/legida-und-pegida-250-rechte-hooligans-randalieren-in-leipzig-a-1071525.html

[QueerVanguard]

Undoubtedly emboldened by these events, 250 Nazis raid leftist quarter in Leipzig: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/legida-und-pegida-250-rechte-hooligans-randalieren-in-leipzig-a-1071525.html

you must be jubilant

[#FF0000]

Oh it only gets better.

Vigilante Gangs attack asylum seekers, vowing to "clean up" Cologne.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-sexual-assaults-vigilante-gangs-attack-asylum-seekers-after-vowing-to-clean-up-german-city-a6807021.html

[Luís Henrique]

Oh it only gets better.

Vigilante Gangs attack asylum seekers, vowing to "clean up" Cologne.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-sexual-assaults-vigilante-gangs-attack-asylum-seekers-after-vowing-to-clean-up-german-city-a6807021.html

I have little doubt that the Islamic right deliberately seeks such kind of result. They want to:

1. isolate the left and the secular centre and right;
2. embolden the autochthonous far-right;
3. increase the marginalistion of the Muslim (and, more generally, immigrant) people in the "West";
4. create a situation of permanent confrontation between European nationals and immigrants;
5. posit themselves, or their political/welfare branches, as the defendants of immigrants, especially Muslim immigrants.

This is clear for me at least since the murder of Charlie Hebdo humourists.

Luís Henrique

[Os Cangaceiros]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-sexual-assaults-vigilante-gangs-attack-asylum-seekers-after-vowing-to-clean-up-german-city-a6807021.html

Oh look, the Nazi salute! What a surprise!

Get a big enough group of boneheads together and it's only a matter of time before the sieg heils begin :rolleyes:

[Os Cangaceiros]

That's an interesting interpretation, re: Luis. My first thought would be that I can't think of a group that would use this event as a "tactic" (not to say that ISIS really has any shame in regards to what they use as tactics, just that this seems like a really bizarre thing to actually organize in pursuit of a political objective. you'd think if they had that many people who were willing to act in sympathy of their objectives, they'd organize them for more serious acts than groping etc)...I can't really find much in the way of good reporting about this, I'm just not knowledgeable about what happened. I do know that this is practically a godsend for the far right, since it plays directly into their insane narratives about the sanctity of white womanhood being under assault by swarthy foreigners.

[Antibiotic]

Defending, women, is always priority of the left, by it's fundamental ideals. Far right plans shit like this for years, to make it appear they're both liberal and righteous, not we, as it's brought to attention, in this century for the world. They focus on Islam, which they produce in Europe by having hots for hairy Arabs. We should not have same viewpoint about this events. Respect towards innocent immigrants, no to racism, but left should not be tolerant towards far right making spectacle when any women, massively are being hurt. Someone should do something rather, in preventing wars in immigrant countries. Anyhow, women, are not cities, nations, countries, as it's attended to think, even feminists would agree to that, it's human beings being deliberately hurt, probably, in order of some money making schemes.

[GLF]

The problem here is not the left. We have a solution, and have had a solution for over a century. Did you fall asleep in class or something?

The problem is that the establishment does not like our solution. They are the ones who plug their ears and pretend not to hear.

The right wing are the ones who push these narratives. We don't need to address this specifically, because it's an issue manufactured by those who seek to continue their rule.

"Let's get all the little lumpenproles worked up against the proles fresh off the boat!"

You say that the immigrants aren't being assimilated? Ha! They are learning right well which group they belong to, as we all have. As we all have.

Just business as usual in Capitalistville.

[soup]

So far the number of women filing charges in Cologne is 739: http://nos.nl/artikel/2080474-onderzoek-tegen-13-verdachten-keulen-739-vrouwen-deden-aangifte.html

[QueerVanguard]

So far the number of women filing charges in Cologne is 739: http://nos.nl/artikel/2080474-onderzoek-tegen-13-verdachten-keulen-739-vrouwen-deden-aangifte.html

and you must be happy as a pig in shit about how this is going to negatively affect refugees who want nothing more than to have a safe place to stay since their countries have been bombed to shit by the Americans, French, Scandinavians, Germans and other white imperialist fuckwads. P.S. I wouldn't put it past fascist women members of the NPD and other nationalist outfits to file false charges in order to stir up hate.

[Luís Henrique]

and you must be happy as a pig in shit about how this is going to negatively affect refugees who want nothing more than to have a safe place to stay since their countries have been bombed to shit by the Americans, French, Scandinavians, Germans and other white imperialist fuckwads. P.S. I wouldn't put it past fascist women members of the NPD and other nationalist outfits to file false charges in order to stir up hate.

Well, thankfully we have not reversed the burden of proof in cases of sexual abuse, or we would have to convict immigrants on the word of fascist women.

But it seems that both the Islamic right and the German nativist right have good reasons to celebrate: even leftists are starting to frame this as war between women and immigrants. This way, whomever wins, it is certain that secularism, the left, and the unity of the working class are among the losers.

Luís Henrique

[John Nada]

That's an interesting interpretation, re: Luis. My first thought would be that I can't think of a group that would use this event as a "tactic" (not to say that ISIS really has any shame in regards to what they use as tactics, just that this seems like a really bizarre thing to actually organize in pursuit of a political objective. you'd think if they had that many people who were willing to act in sympathy of their objectives, they'd organize them for more serious acts than groping etc)...I can't really find much in the way of good reporting about this, I'm just not knowledgeable about what happened. I do know that this is practically a godsend for the far right, since it plays directly into their insane narratives about the sanctity of white womanhood being under assault by swarthy foreigners.I'm not sure if that's what Luis Henrique is saying that Daesh did this. This seems more like the common(unfortunately) type of sexual assaults at events with a lot of men and alcohol, like New Years celebrations. It's being highjacked by xenophobes to smear immigrants, which is what groups like Al-Qaeda and Daesh want.

The story should be about the fact that it's nearly always men. You'll never have the opposite with hundreds of men sexually assaulted by women. For some reason patriarchal violence is unquestioned and not the outrage, but that for some it may have been done by immigrants is. And while men as a gender are not under scrutiny, the peoples of the Middle East and Africa(strangely including the women and children) are.

Rightists like Daesh and other Salafi-Jihadists are trying to polarize the political situation on various levels(local, regional and even global). Their European and North American doppelgangers on the right reciprocate it, with libeling all immigrants as inherently criminal(I don't know why native rapists are somehow better in the eyes of these fascists) and launch violent, racist attacks on perceived immigrants. They both play each others' villain. A symbiotic relation on the far-right.

I would add these attacks like Charlie Hebdo and the Paris attack are not just to isolate Muslim immigrants and minorities. Having a bunch of racist, Islamophobic governments(okay more than normal) as allies puts governments in Muslim countries in a predicament. Either stand by allies that rabidly hate their people(in both words and deeds) and lose credibility, or break away and lose the support of imperialist countries. This reaction in the predominately Muslim countries then feeds into reaction in Europe and North America, and vis versa. It's drags everyone to the right.

[soup]

and you must be happy as a pig in shit about how this is going to negatively affect refugees who want nothing more than to have a safe place to stay since their countries have been bombed to shit by the Americans, French, Scandinavians, Germans and other white imperialist fuckwads. P.S. I wouldn't put it past fascist women members of the NPD and other nationalist outfits to file false charges in order to stir up hate.

No. You keep trying to paint me as a secret Nazi, and it keeps being completely false.

I want nothing but good things for the majority of refugees who are quite innocent and in search of a respectable existence. It pains me to hear stories like a recent one out of Canada about a guy who was no doubt "inspired" by these mass sexual assault incidents to go out and pepper spray a bunch of newly arriving Syrian refugees at a welcome center.

It also pains me to hear about hundreds of women being sexually assaulted by immigrants. This is not about women vs immigrants either, keep in mind that the main victims of sexual abuse by immigrant men are almost certainly immigrant women. Clearly something has to be done, and the efforts have to be led by an anti-racist feminist left and not the racist anti-feminist right.

I find it pretty disgusting of you to say that women are lying en masse about being sexually assaulted. I mean, good god you have spent the entire thread questioning my left credentials and this is the type of garbage you are spewing? Please get a grip..

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm not sure if that's what Luis Henrique is saying that Daesh did this. This seems more like the common(unfortunately) type of sexual assaults at events with a lot of men and alcohol, like New Years celebrations. It's being highjacked by xenophobes to smear immigrants, which is what groups like Al-Qaeda and Daesh want.

The story should be about the fact that it's nearly always men. You'll never have the opposite with hundreds of men sexually assaulted by women. For some reason patriarchal violence is unquestioned and not the outrage, but that for some it may have been done by immigrants is. And while men as a gender are not under scrutiny, the peoples of the Middle East and Africa(strangely including the women and children) are.

Rightists like Daesh and other Salafi-Jihadists are trying to polarize the political situation on various levels(local, regional and even global). Their European and North American doppelgangers on the right reciprocate it, with libeling all immigrants as inherently criminal(I don't know why native rapists are somehow better in the eyes of these fascists) and launch violent, racist attacks on perceived immigrants. They both play each others' villain. A symbiotic relation on the far-right.

I would add these attacks like Charlie Hebdo and the Paris attack are not just to isolate Muslim immigrants and minorities. Having a bunch of racist, Islamophobic governments(okay more than normal) as allies puts governments in Muslim countries in a predicament. Either stand by allies that rabidly hate their people(in both words and deeds) and lose credibility, or break away and lose the support of imperialist countries. This reaction in the predominately Muslim countries then feeds into reaction in Europe and North America, and vis versa. It's drags everyone to the right.

Well what made me mention groups was the speculation was that this was somehow organized...when you'd think that, just by looking at the type of things which were done, it's the epitome of something unorganized and uncoordinated, just drunks sexually harassing/assaulting women etc. It's not exactly the kind of thing you'd expect a lot of foresight to play into

[Comrade #138672]

Oh it only gets better.

Vigilante Gangs attack asylum seekers, vowing to "clean up" Cologne.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-sexual-assaults-vigilante-gangs-attack-asylum-seekers-after-vowing-to-clean-up-german-city-a6807021.htmlRight-wing hooligans, the scum of the Earth.

[Luís Henrique]

I'm not sure if that's what Luis Henrique is saying that Daesh did this. This seems more like the common(unfortunately) type of sexual assaults at events with a lot of men and alcohol, like New Years celebrations. It's being highjacked by xenophobes to smear immigrants, which is what groups like Al-Qaeda and Daesh want.

I am also not sure of what is happening; the narrative seems to me self-contradictory.

Islamic extremists do not get drunk to harass women, at least if we believe the usual narrative about them: they are Islamic fundamentalists, they follow the Quran to the letter, the Quran forbids drinking alcohol, so they are by definition teetotalers.

On the other hand what is being reported is something obviously organised, even internationally organised. You don't have simultaneous attacks in several different cities in several different countries without coordination.

So there is, in my impression, something fishy about the way those things are being reported. For what I have read, it seems that what is false is the novelty of these attacks: the police and press might have been failing to report previous similar incidents for a few years. If so, the attacks might have been unorganised and "spontaneous", and performed by your regular drunkards and male chauvinistic arseholes. What is problematic, then, is how long these things have been happening, and how could they get past the radar of the sensationalist press.


The story should be about the fact that it's nearly always men. You'll never have the opposite with hundreds of men sexually assaulted by women. For some reason patriarchal violence is unquestioned and not the outrage, but that for some it may have been done by immigrants is. And while men as a gender are not under scrutiny, the peoples of the Middle East and Africa(strangely including the women and children) are.

Well, several different things here. Of course patriarchal violence is naturalised, we live in patriarchal societies. Of course also the patriarchal violence that is naturalised is culturally linked to local traditions. German male supremacists do not need burkhas to opress women in Germany.

The existence of a minority that is equally patriarchal but whose patriarchal customs are different allows for the otherisation of patriarchy, or of the most nasty aspects of patriarchy. "We" may be sexist but at least we do not assault women during the reveillon; only towel heads would have such an idea. This is the reason why men are not under scrutiny as a gender; "Western" men rape their women within the sanctity of their patriarchal homes, not on the streets; what kind of savages do you think we are?

That's also how these events are a fest for the autochthonous xenophobic far-right.

Here is how it is represented, far away from Germany, in the comment box of a Brazilian blog:


Recklessness is so huge that Muslims treat Western women as pieces of meat, they indeed harass and rape, because for them Western women deserve no respect, even though they don't respect even their own women. Indeed these Syrians raping women, we need to talk about this, and make them feel ashamed for exposing us.


Rightists like Daesh and other Salafi-Jihadists are trying to polarize the political situation on various levels(local, regional and even global). Their European and North American doppelgangers on the right reciprocate it, with libeling all immigrants as inherently criminal(I don't know why native rapists are somehow better in the eyes of these fascists) and launch violent, racist attacks on perceived immigrants. They both play each others' villain. A symbiotic relation on the far-right.

This is certainly how things are happening: the Islamic right and the European nativist right reinforce each other by choosing each other as their preferred enemy, and may be able to capture the centrality of public discourse, marginalising everybody else, from anarchists to tories, in the process. Whether they do it purposefully, by murdering humourists, or whether they simply surf on events that they do not actually control, as it may be the case with the New Year harassment scare, may even be irrelevant. I would certainly not put past the Islamic right consciously organising this kind of things (they certainly are not "primitive" idiots that act irrationally; their leadership is capable of quite sophisticated strategic thinking, that sometimes puts Western mainstream politicians into shame); I doubt more their material ability (their sheer numbers, and their capability of coordinating) than their malice, cunning, and patience.


I would add these attacks like Charlie Hebdo and the Paris attack are not just to isolate Muslim immigrants and minorities. Having a bunch of racist, Islamophobic governments(okay more than normal) as allies puts governments in Muslim countries in a predicament. Either stand by allies that rabidly hate their people(in both words and deeds) and lose credibility, or break away and lose the support of imperialist countries. This reaction in the predominately Muslim countries then feeds into reaction in Europe and North America, and vis versa. It's drags everyone to the right.

Yup. It is an infernal dynamics, and it would be our task to break it. I am not very optimistic that we can, not even that we are able to see it for what it is, but, as a Danish prince reportedly put it, that's the question.

Luís Henrique

[John Nada]

It doesn't appear to have been organized, a few were rapes but it seems a lot were thefts or sexual assault. According to witnesses a lot appeared drunk/high.[TW]: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/world/europe/as-germany-welcomes-migrantssexual-attacks-in-cologne-point-to-a-new-reality.html?ref=europe Sounds like there was very poor crowd control in Cologne.

I was just thinking. A lot of Muslim countries alcohol is frowned upon, if not banned. Now this is one of those rules that is widely not followed, like so much of the long unrealistic list of forbidden shit in both Christianity and Islam.(repentance is a big part of both religions) But if someone is has a low tolerance to drugs and alcohol, and they're someone who doesn't handle alcohol or drugs well, that's going to be a problem.

[Antiochus]

People don't commit sexual assaults merely by virtue of being drunk or high. Rather many people (especially cocaine) use it to "prep" for crimes, particularly theft.

[Luís Henrique]

So we have the following possibilities:

1. The New Year Eve attacks were vulgar drunkard attacks against women in general; their ideology is merely the widespread ordinary sexism of contemporary societies in general. At most, it gets mixed with a "The Great Cat Massacre (https://designstudiesdiscourses.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/86704216-robert-darnton-the-great-cat-massacre.pdf)"-style attempt at humiliating middle class women perpetrated by lower class men - which might explain the idea that the attackers were predominantly immigrants.

2. The attacks were planned actions by far-right Islamic radicals, in order to foster ethnic divisions in Germany. Their mobile would be political, strategical, and premised into plotting immigrant rights against women's rights.

The problem with 1. is that if it so, then it would have to be explained why those episodes weren't regularly happening in the past years, and erupted just now, suddenly, with apparently no previous signs, in several different cities. The problem with 2. is that the behaviour of the New Year attacks resembles much more that of vulgar drunkards and brigands than that of committed far-right Islamic activists (who would be expected, at least, to not mix binge drinking with serious political activity).

I tend to believe that it was basically 1., and that the "sudden eruption" is basically due to police cover-ups of previous similar incidents (which police will probably try and attribute to evil politically correct socialdemocrats tampering with their professional work).

Luís Henrique

[Бай Ганьо]

3. The attacks were planned by a small group of far-right (non-)Islamic radicals and carried out by a couple of far-right Islamic radicals who only had to put the fuse in the powder keg, i.e. inciting vulgar drunkards and thiefs to (sexual) violence, and hope for a snowball effect.

Edit:

The total of victims is 1049 (ca. 80% female). 359 of the 821 registered complaints concern sexual offenses, in 207 cases in combination with theft.
30 suspects, all North Africans, 15 of them asylum-seekers, including 2 unaccompanied minors, according to Focus (http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/innenausschuss-im-live-ticker-straftaten-verdaechtige-jetzt-legt-nrw-innenminister-jaeger-die-wahren-zahlen-vor_id_5226649.html).

[Luís Henrique]

3. The attacks were planned by a small group of far-right (non-)Islamic radicals and carried out by a couple of far-right Islamic radicals who only had to put the fuse in the powder keg, i.e. inciting vulgar drunkards and thiefs to (sexual) violence, and hope for a snowball effect.

That's definitely a possibility.

Luís Henrique