Council Communism: Is the pancake flavour really out of business?

[Communist Mutant From Outer Space]

What is the situation concerning Council Communism today, of the Pannekoek variety? Is it nothing more than withered footnotes these days or is it just a hidden movement that lies beneath the surface?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

What is the situation concerning Council Communism today, of the Pannekoek variety? Is it nothing more than withered footnotes these days or is it just a hidden movement that lies beneath the surface?

I don't know of any groups which advocate it, but there are Leftist forces which utilize councils, direct democracy and delegates to make decisions. The EZLN comes to mind - they aren't "Council Communists", but they are run by agrarian councils of peasants. Of course, they exist on the peripheries of the realm of modern industrial production, are a peasant based movement, and they do not attempt organize on an international level so there are serious disanalogies there. Also some wobblies seem sympathetic to his views (and I've even seen them selling his book), but I don't know how popular he is in the IWW.

[Rudolf]

I don't know of any groups which advocate it, but there are Leftist forces which utilize councils, direct democracy and delegates to make decisions. The EZLN comes to mind - they aren't "Council Communists", but they are run by agrarian councils of peasants.


That's down to anarchist influence in Mexico iirc as opposed to council communists.


Anyway, im of the impression that at present council communism is a dead tendency.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

That's down to anarchist influence in Mexico iirc as opposed to council communists.


No argument here. I was speaking of their model of governance, more than any tangible influence. I haven't finished reading Pannekoek, but the impression I get from him is that the workers won't need to appeal to his ideology to realize the councils because it is a form of organization which organically comes out of their mode of production.

That said, their ideology is a peculiar mix of Magonism (which is probably where some of the anarchist thought is), Zapatismo, Maoism and indigenous Mayan thought more than just "anarchism"

[Rudolf]

No argument here. I was speaking of their model of governance, more than any tangible influence. I haven't finished reading Pannekoek, but the impression I get from him is that the workers won't need to appeal to his ideology to realize the councils because it is a form of organization which organically comes out of their mode of production.

Funny thing is i've come across a lot of anarchists with the same thought.



That said, their ideology is a peculiar mix of Magonism (which is probably where some of the anarchist thought is), Zapatismo, Maoism and indigenous Mayan thought more than just "anarchism"

Oh yeah definitely.

[Tim Cornelis]

How do people know Pannekoek means pancake?

Council communism is dead. There's still Hekmatism, which is sort of a reinvention of it. Other than that, I don't know.

[newdayrising]

What is the situation concerning Council Communism today, of the Pannekoek variety? Is it nothing more than withered footnotes these days or is it just a hidden movement that lies beneath the surface?

Even though the original council-communists (they used this name as well as "left communists") such as Pannekoek had supported the Russian Revolution and actually came out of a party, the KAPD they later turned into what is now called "councilism" as they became opposed to the party form on principle and developed an analysis of the Russian revolution as bourgeois.

From then on their political heirs started becoming more critical of political organizations, and pretty much committed suicide as a viable tradition, even though a lot of people today are influenced by them, particularly some anarchists and situationistoid types.

[QueerVanguard]

There's still Hekmatism

lolwut

[#FF0000]

Councilism's "dead" as a distinct tendency but still informs the politics of a lot of groups.

[Asero]

lolwut

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansoor_Hekmat

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

As a distinct tendency, council communism doesn't really exist now, but its ideas still influence people.

[Heretek]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansoor_Hekmat

So, a tendency in which the followers are pro-life/anti-feminist (the article is vague on this), advocate an overthrow of Iran, and advocate fruit eating ? (the wikipedia entry isn't really enlightening to anything)

[Aslan]

So, a tendency in which the followers are pro-life/anti-feminist (the article is vague on this), advocate an overthrow of Iran, and advocate fruit eating ? (the wikipedia entry isn't really enlightening to anything)

Lets also not forget its probably the most sectarian thing to subscribe to since Stalino-Trotskyism!

[Asero]

How do people know Pannekoek means pancake?

If you google Pannekoek, most of the links and pics are for pancakes.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

What's funny about his relative unpopularity except as an "influence" on other schools of thought is that after the utter failure that was the USSR, you would think Communists would have looked for a new theorist who emphasized direct democratic working class control over a centralized and unaccountable vanguard party.


If you google Pannekoek, most of the links and pics are for pancakes.

What I want to know is how his ancestors thought to themselves "the van Dykes help keep the levees up, the Bakkers make bread, what name should we have for ourselves? Oh I know, I'm the pancake maker, there we go."

[Thirsty Crow]

What is the situation concerning Council Communism today, of the Pannekoek variety? Is it nothing more than withered footnotes these days or is it just a hidden movement that lies beneath the surface?
Nah, by its very "nature" councilism cannot morph into anything resembling a movement. So there's no council communism which you speak of right now which would qualify as a movement aiming for intervention into working class struggle.

It might be biased in my view, but actually I take Sam Moss' article to be a terribly sober drawing out of logical conclusions of councilism: https://libcom.org/library/impotence-of-revolutionary-group-international-council-correspondence-moss

And there were contemporary folks (two of them, no more no less) who took this on board in a serious fashion (though not solely as an exercise of being convinced by argument).

So if you're looking for an active movement which either stirs shit up, plants people in autonomous and militant workers' groups at the point of production, or engages the working class as communist militants producing propaganda, councilism isn't it. Part of the reason was the historical demise and/or significant transformation of the groups of people holding these ideas as well. Some of them have been absorbed by other tendencies in communist organizing though.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Aye, echoing what others have said, I think it's a mistake to go looking for "Councilism" as such. Certainly, I have yet, in my time on the left, to encounter any sort of "Pannekoekism" or formal councilist organizations.

However, again echoing others, I do think much of councilist thought has been assimilated by various anarchist tendencies, libertarian communists, heterodox Marxists (particularly of autonomist-y strains), etc.

Given the "stodginess"/dogmatism of "left communism" generally, I'm of the opinion that this is a good thing.