Did Stalin poison Lenin?

[Communist Mutant From Outer Space]

Is there any credence to this idea? Most of the supporting evidence seems to come from Lev Lurie, who was the first one to espouse the theory in the first place. Does any historical evidence suggest that it was or wasn't Stalin, or is it a question we will never be able to answer? I ask because while my image of Stalin was mostly ambivalent in the past, having evidence to support this particular claim would lead me to take a strong hatred of him.

[tuwix]

Actually, I don't thin so. Lenin's errors were his own and at least partially he's admitted them. Stalin was another chapter. Stalin was just the worst nightmare of Lenin in terms what could happen with Leninist state...

[Blake's Baby]

Please believe that I am about as opposed to Stalin as it is possible to be. He was a liar, murderer, the gravedigger of the revolution, the most heinous betrayer of the working class and also the notion of socialism, a total bastard, a second-rate thinker and the single person most to blame for the current notion that 'communism' means 'grim prison-state'.

But the idea that he poisoned Lenin is I think horseshit.

[reviscom1]

I do think that, had Lenin lived another 10 or 20 years, there is a very real possibility that Stalin would have ousted him and had him shot.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

Please believe that I am about as opposed to Stalin as it is possible to be. He was a liar, murderer, the gravedigger of the revolution, the most heinous betrayer of the working class and also the notion of socialism, a total bastard, a second-rate thinker and the single person most to blame for the current notion that 'communism' means 'grim prison-state'.

But the idea that he poisoned Lenin is I think horseshit.

yeah, we're on the same page. i suspect that more realistically what finished lenin off was a family history of cerebrovascular disease exacerbated by his heavy workload leading to three increasingly serious strokes combined with being shot in 1918.

[Synergy]

I do think that, had Lenin lived another 10 or 20 years, there is a very real possibility that Stalin would have ousted him and had him shot.

It's also possible that he may have succeeded in revealing Stalin as a traitor.

[reviscom1]

It's also possible that he may have succeeded in revealing Stalin as a traitor.

What do you mean by "traitor"?

[Comrade #138672]

What do you mean by "traitor"?You know, like having your old comrades shot. Betraying the revolution.

[Comrade #138672]

It is not impossible (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/health/research/lenins-death-remains-a-mystery-for-doctors.html?_r=0) that Lenin was poisoned by Stalin. It may or may not be true. I don't know.

[Comrade Jacob]

wow. Some people in this thread...

[Antiochus]

Well Jacob. There is 0 proof that Stalin poisoned Lenin. But is there proof he didn't? COuld it be that Stalin was a Trotskyist/Fascist/French spy and saboteur responsible for the death of Kirov?

I LOVE how Stalinists develop this high standard of proof when it comes to their sugar daddy but are willing to execute anything that moves based upon patently false garbage and outright lies (which they did, of course).

[Comrade Jacob]

Well Jacob. There is 0 proof that Stalin poisoned Lenin. But is there proof he didn't? COuld it be that Stalin was a Trotskyist/Fascist/French spy and saboteur responsible for the death of Kirov?

I LOVE how Stalinists develop this high standard of proof when it comes to their sugar daddy but are willing to execute anything that moves based upon patently false garbage and outright lies (which they did, of course).

I don't think you knew what you were typing so I'm just gunna move on.

[Comrade Jacob]

Well Jacob. There is 0 proof that Stalin poisoned Lenin. But is there proof he didn't? COuld it be that Stalin was a Trotskyist/Fascist/French spy and saboteur responsible for the death of Kirov?

I LOVE how Stalinists develop this high standard of proof when it comes to their sugar daddy but are willing to execute anything that moves based upon patently false garbage and outright lies (which they did, of course).

I don't think you knew what you were typing so I'm just gunna move on.

[Guardia Rossa]

Stalin was a Trotskyist

Honestly, I LOLed hard at this.

And no, I don't think so. He could let Lenin die but he would never murder the man himself. Lenin was dying anyway and if discovered this would get him killed.

[reviscom1]

This probably has little bearing on the question at hand but interesting to note anyway.

I have just been reading that in the early stages of his final illness Lenin actually had Stalin on standby to administer poison to him should the illness become unbearable.

At one point when Stalin was visiting, Lenin even went so far as to ask him to administer it but Stalin and Mrs Lenin conferred and then jointly persuaded him it was not yet time.

Later, of course, both the Lenins fell out with Stalin over the Nationalities question and Lenin's level of involvement in the Government.

(Robert Service)

[Vee]

This probably has little bearing on the question at hand but interesting to note anyway.

I have just been reading that in the early stages of his final illness Lenin actually had Stalin on standby to administer poison to him should the illness become unbearable.

At one point when Stalin was visiting, Lenin even went so far as to ask him to administer it but Stalin and Mrs Lenin conferred and then jointly persuaded him it was not yet time.

Later, of course, both the Lenins fell out with Stalin over the Nationalities question and Lenin's level of involvement in the Government.

(Robert Service)

are there any sources you can provide for this?

[Aslan]

Stalin wasn't stupid, he couldn't have done that. He wanted Lenin to choose him as his successor and murdering him at the wrong time would mean a succession crisis. Stalin also knew that being the leader had it's faults. Lenin was a hero to the Soviet peasants, he led Russia to the path of complete hegemony of the leftist sphere. Lenin was too useful to kill him.

[The Feral Underclass]

Fanya Kaplan's bullet had something to do with it :wub:

[Comrade #138672]

Stalin wasn't stupid, he couldn't have done that. He wanted Lenin to choose him as his successor and murdering him at the wrong time would mean a succession crisis. Stalin also knew that being the leader had it's faults. Lenin was a hero to the Soviet peasants, he led Russia to the path of complete hegemony of the leftist sphere. Lenin was too useful to kill him.Except that Lenin didn't trust Stalin and wanted him removed from his position.

[Antiochus]

The point is, I can draw the same idiotic conjecture Stalinists do about the people they murdered.

Who had the most to gain from Lenin dying? Who rose to power after Lenin died? Who had virtually every old Bolshevik executed after Lenin died?

No, Stalin didn't kill Lenin. But according to Stalinist gymnastics he probably did; you know, to establish a Trotskyst fascist satellite state or something.

[reviscom1]

are there any sources you can provide for this?

Robert Service: Lenin. Last couple of chapters.

As to what his sources were, I am sure they are in the bibliography.

Terribly written book, by the way, but contains many interesting nuggets nonetheless.

For example, Stalin was also the man given the task of shaving Lenin's beard off when the latter wanted to disguise himself from the Provisional Government's security services.

[Luís Henrique]

I don't know if Stalin poisoned Lenin's physical body.

I do know that he poisoned Lenin's ideas, and Lenin's legacy.

Luís Henrique

[motion denied]

COuld it be that Stalin was a Trotskyist?

lmaoo

[Synergy]

Well, you see, Trotsky always thought a blow to the head from an ice-axe was an honorable death, so...

[KurtFF8]

The quality of this thread is pretty sad and most of the posts seem to be minor sectarian jabs masked in addressing the OP rather than substantive takes on the question.

Ultimately this seems more of a conspiracy theorists kind of subject rather than important question for the Left to address however.

[lutraphile]

Not unimaginable given how many of the Bolsheviks Stalin killed, but I doubt it. Lenin was in poor health anyway and there was a very high risk involved in doing so.