Xenophobia rising?

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Do you feel like Xenophobia is rising?

There's a definition problem too, because I consider a xenophobe someone who's against immigration while others say it's just fear of foreigners and defending some immigration restrictions is not xenophobia. Nowadays I see many people defending anti-immigration policies but preemptively saying that if they defend those they will be called xenophobes by the left, like it isn't true (in my opinion it is).
I see also many people criticizing political correctness as a shield for their racist/xenophobic views.

In my opinion everyone should have the right to travel anywhere, otherwise it's the factor of luck again. Saying other people can't enter your country is saying you have more rights than them. And the ones who can travel are already the least worse of, the really poor can't even find a way to travel.

There's a really worrying problem about Islamophobia, I kinda understand that, there are some links to disturbing statistics about muslims (dunno if they are true or not), but you should not prevent someone from coming to the country in a remote possibility they will do something bad, I do agree with expulsion for proven criminals tho.

[Tim Cornelis]

Yes, it is rising. And it will become the new normal (at this rate). And I don't see hope for reversal of this trend.

I'm not in favour of expulsion of proven criminals. It's not like they will disappear, they will go back to their country of origins. Crime may happen, as long as it doesn't happen near you? It's better if a criminal is in Afghanistan or Poland than in Portugal or the Netherlands?

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Yes, it is rising. And it will become the new normal (at this rate). And I don't see hope for reversal of this trend. Sadly, I think so too, and it worries me :/



I'm not in favour of expulsion of proven criminals. It's not like they will disappear, they will go back to their country of origins. Crime may happen, as long as it doesn't happen near you? It's better if a criminal is in Afghanistan or Poland than in Portugal or the Netherlands?
Expulsion, prison, same thing, they won't be inserted in society, it's just that prison costs money for the country that received them.

But I think the most important thing is knowing why there's crime and solving the issues.

[Tim Cornelis]

And prison doesn't cost money for his country of origin?

[Бай Ганьо]

People are getting fed up with the European technocracy, with its institutions and structures which have been forced upon them, with NATO embarking on a course of perpetual wars and their so-called humanitarian interventions, and now with the result of all this shit: the massive immigration and sporadic terrorist attacks.

Why do people vote for far right parties? Xenophobia is only part of the answer. Even people who aren't particularly xenophobic identify the whole left with the social democrats who have consistently supported the undemocratic European construction, the expansion of NATO and big business wars, etc. In their mind the radical left is not an option, certainly after having witnessed Syriza's betrayal in Greece - Syriza, which had been systematically and falsely presented as a radical left alternative by the mainstream media.

So the electoral results in France now, for example, are not surprising: for people still having bad memories about politicians like Sarkozy, rejecting the whole left spectrum for the reasons mentioned, there is only one "alternative" left: far right.

[Zoop]

It is:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVkJ3VOWcAI5oe4.jpg

When fear takes hold of the xenophobic brain, the far-right is lovingly embraced and welcomed.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

It's not as if Sarkozy's Republicans, the MoDem or the Socialist Party are any less xenophobic than the FN. It's just that the rhetoric of the FN makes you want to puke immediately; with the other parties there is a slight delay as they mask their right-wing position with layers and layers of "social" and "republican" rhetoric. If the FN wins, nothing extraordinary will happen. The French state will continue with its "republican" racism the same as it would under the PS or whatever. The same thing happened in Austria, as I like to remind people, where people were going apeshit when Heider was elected, and in the end, of course, he ended up being just another bourgeois politician.

As for the left, it has no one to blame but itself. It's fashionable, in left circles, to blame all of our fuck-ups on inexorable forces beyond our control, ranging from the popular soft-left "muh hegemony" and "muh mass media" to probably the worst of the lot, "muh class has disappeared" of the Bordigists. But the fact is, the left has consistently and grossly failed to present any sort of alternative, any sort of progressive vision, beyond an abstract opposition to this or that aspect of capitalism, and the conviction that it can carry out the programme of the right (democracy and economic growth) better than the right can. Most people I talk to are sick of that; they don't want another student politico yelling "down with austerity" when he obviously has no idea how to do anything about austerity. Besides, how can the left fight xenophobia when it is itself overwhelmingly xenophobic? Listening to most leftists, they're tripping over themselves to apologise for suggesting that perhaps the stinking brown people might stay here.

[Tim Cornelis]

People are getting fed up with the European technocracy, with its institutions and structures which have been forced upon them, with NATO embarking on a course of perpetual wars and their so-called humanitarian interventions, and now with the result of all this shit: the massive immigration and sporadic terrorist attacks.

Why do people vote for far right parties? Xenophobia is only part of the answer. Even people who aren't particularly xenophobic identify the whole left with the social democrats who have consistently supported the undemocratic European construction, the expansion of NATO and big business wars, etc. In their mind the radical left is not an option, certainly after having witnessed Syriza's betrayal in Greece - Syriza, which had been systematically and falsely presented as a radical left alternative by the mainstream media.

So the electoral results in France now, for example, are not surprising: for people still having bad memories about politicians like Sarkozy, rejecting the whole left spectrum for the reasons mentioned, there is only one "alternative" left: far right.

What a bunch of crap. Xenophobia is the entire answer. National conservatism is rising because of SYRIZA's 2015 betrayal, even though national conservatism has been rising since the 1990s and early 2000s. Chronologically, doesn't add up. Moreover, most Eurosceptics would see the betrayal of SYRIZA as forced on them through sabotage of democratic processes by the EU, not a result of SYRIZAs failings. It just seems that, for some reason, you want to shoehorn in anti-EU sentiment in your explanation. Maybe because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge xenophobia is all and the only reason of the rise, and cannot simply be reversed by emphasising left stances on the EU or something. But the bitter truth is, it's xenophobia. Become cynical man, it's appropriate.

Yes national-conservative FN is biggest party in France, national-conservative PVV in the Netherlands biggest in the polls, Sweden Democrats ditto a while ago, Danish People's Party also iirc. National-conservativism is the new mainstream. And centrist parties tried to co-opt it by moving to the right on issues of migration, etc. It's the new normal. As it already was in Japan, or Russia.

But yeah, Xhar Xhar Binks is also right in that.

[PhoenixAsh]

To add to this

The "socialists" just withdrew all candidates so the Republicans of Sarkozy can "oppose FN and have a bigger chance to prevent their landslide victory".

This whole rise in Xenophobic sentiment is not only a result of the increase in open racism and nationalist sententiments since 2001 and exasperated by the economic crisis is 2008....but it is a purposeful design consciously cultivated to distract from what is happening with austerity and the breakdown of social and political positions of the working class and poor..and to prevent mass protests

[Comrade Jacob]

Xenophobia is rising and will continue to rise for years to come. It's the job of the anti-fascists to oppose it and they aren't doing a good job. Time for heads to get kicked in.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

This whole rise in Xenophobic sentiment is not only a result of the increase in open racism and nationalist sententiments since 2001 and exasperated by the economic crisis is 2008....but it is a purposeful design consciously cultivated to distract from what is happening with austerity and the breakdown of social and political positions of the working class and poor..and to prevent mass protests

Isn't that a conspiracy?
You think it's conscious, is it possible it's subconscious?

[PhoenixAsh]

No. It isn't subconscious. It is a recession strategy that has been emulated in the past over and over and over again...and a purposeful design.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

By whom? A bunch of guys in power at a table discussing strategies?

Not sure I believe it.

[R.Rubinelli]

I'd say, most importantly, it-- xenophobia-- is convenient. Blame the _______________(fill in the blank). A track record of proven success.

[Thirsty Crow]

Yes, it is rising. And it will become the new normal (at this rate). And I don't see hope for reversal of this trend.

Pretty much share the sentiment though the lack of hope might be only a corollary of a certain kind of pessimism of mine.

Thing is, after the migratory wave to Europe and especially after the France killings, people have been much more open to prejudice against both a) Muslims per se and b) people who could be in touch with Muslims.

B) is in a way concerned with ethnicity.

The whole rotten "European values" is starting to make sense for people who could, once upon a time, distingush between exasperated responses to oppression and outright homicidal joy, the latter being more and more connected to particular people of a certain creed and/or ethnic background.

[Црвена]

Isn't that a conspiracy?
You think it's conscious, is it possible it's subconscious?

How would that work? Are people spiritually compelled to be racist? :confused:

[Rafiq]

One cannot even begin to pour out the oceans of ridicule such a myopic, stubbornly ignorant and hopelessly pathetic understanding of the present situation is. Truly, we all know Xhar-Xhar's inability to actually assess the particularities of a situation (given that, as it goes, "nothing has changed"), but this is literally - by Revleft's standards - nothing short of a tragedy. Here we have a pseudo-Marxist so casually, confidently and brazenly assuring all of us with our rightfully induced concern (an understatement) about the present situation, that there is in fact nothing to fear - things will go on as they always have.

We are literally witnessing history march right the fuck past Xhar-Xhars abominably desperate and hollow confidence in the present situation. We are literally witnessing it at a rate that exceeds our standards of comprehension. Anyone who has seen just a shred of the darkness which is represented by Europe's political degeneration, anyone who has felt even the slightest sign of its presence, would either laugh or cry at this display of clownish aplomb.

All you 'leftists', is this how you cope with the present circumstances? Amidst all of the changes that are happening at a lightning pace right before our eyes, you would dare approach the present situation by just fucking brushing it off? Are you stupid? Does it feel comfortable, this cupola you have made for those of you who underestimate the seriousness of the political and ideological situation we are facing? We are witnessing the beginning of the end for bourgeois liberalism. We are witnessing the emergence of a new barbarism on a scale we have never faced before, we have no experience in dealing with, and are presently powerless before. I don't care how fucking old you are, if you think the situation today is just going to pass - if you think things aren't accelerating in a manner which is emphatically NOT in our favor, you have your head so far up your ass I don't know what to tell you.

Time will tell. Mark my words. Give it two years or less. Come back to this post and remember how fucking wrong you were. Give it ten years or lest. Reflect on the time you spent on this website and wallow in regret - that you didn't have the foresight to prepare. If this sounds apocalyptic, it is only incidental. Such is the scale of things we are presently faced with.


If the FN wins, nothing extraordinary will happen. The French state will continue with its "republican" racism the same as it would under the PS or whatever. The same thing happened in Austria, as I like to remind people, where people were going apeshit when Heider was elected, and in the end, of course, he ended up being just another bourgeois politician.

It is funny that sometimes it is the older users who are so incapable of recognizing new dangers, when their memory should serve them the ability to recognize the degeneration of European political standards that happened in their lifetime.

What you fail to understand, Xhar-Xhar, is that it is precisely because people like Le Pen are "just another bourgeois politician" that the gravity of the danger is truly felt. That Le Pen does not appear as a 'dangerous extremist', or a marginalized figure is precisely the fucking poitn - so low have the political standards fallen in western countries that this kind of filth is now acceptable. Men like Viktor Orban, and Putin, appear as perfectly reasonable politicians. Fascism was never so 'extreme' in the context of its own country. The 'crazy' and 'extreme' facade of Nazism was born out of a reaction to an even 'crazier' worker's militancy and movement. And the same goes for Italy. Fascism, reaction, bourgeois anti-liberalism NEVER apperas as anything but 'jsut another' kind of politics.

Likewise, the 'scientific' racism of various individuals NEVER appears as apparently 'generalizing' and narrow minded as the scientific racism of the 19th century that everyone universally condemns. For example, instead of blatantly designating races with moral values openly, i.e. "blacks are an inferior race", we have innocent statements like "Well, African populations tend to on average have a lower IQ, and this could be related to genetic factors" (which "well respected" cognitivists like Steven Pinker are sympathetic towards. Various BOURGEOIS journalists, in collaboration with progressive scientists, have spoken about the 'new racism' that is so prevalent among 'neurosciences' and those engaged with 'hard sciences' in universities). But do Leftists really bat a fucking eye? No, because Leftists still think we're living in the days of the counter culture, an epoch the bourgeois order has long superseded. Because of this absence of TRADITIONALLY understood signifiers of racism, sexism, whatever - these are in their minds non-issues. "Well, who knows, what if they're right?" they might say. A total fucking blind alley, it's pathetic.

My point being: If you are unable to locate the particularities of Fascism (WHATEVER you want to call it), barbarism and reaction in 2015, then you are not in a position to pretend to be a socialist in 2015 when you don't even know the fucking political and ideological context which you make pretensions to. Xhar-Xhar's message is, "Oh, don't worry, leftists like to make a big deal about nothing - things will go as they always have until the big, imaginary and indefinitely prolonged moment of authenticity which justifies my obvious stupidity".

My message, then, is rather simple: Don't you dare go about your fucking day thinking this. Yes, you should worry, yes, you should be concerned - and yes - you are in shit that is so much deeper than you could possibly fathom. Be very anxious. A great darkness is upon us, and what you have seen so far is just its beginning - no - the beginning of the beginning. Shame on every pseudo-Leftist who lacks the WILL to foresee this when the signs are practically everywhere for anyone who pretends to be politically conscious, whose 5 sense are still intact.

Mark my words.

[Rafiq]

This whole rise in Xenophobic sentiment is not only a result of the increase in open racism and nationalist sententiments since 2001 and exasperated by the economic crisis is 2008....but it is a purposeful design consciously cultivated to distract from what is happening with austerity and the breakdown of social and political positions of the working class and poor..and to prevent mass protests

Everyone should be aware of the fact that: Europe's 'culture war' and the actual struggle that had a polarizing effect on Europe since the Syriza victory in January were inversely proportional. I do not know whether this was 'purposefully' designed, but its function is blatantly obvious.

Interesting then, why our 'hard leftists', our self-identifying 'ultra-leftists' were so quick to dismiss Syriza as "just another" social democratic party when as a phenomena it has been the ONLY THING which has for a moment inspired the necessary hope in the hearts of ORDINARY people who might not otherwise even be that political that the problems they face can be attacked head on, without resorting to darkness, filth and barbarism, without falling back on faith in old demons.

So strong was this that - even in Greece, despite the rise of the Golden Dawn as a result of the capitulation in the Summer (which can be opposed as cowardly only in the midst of Varoufakis's alternative - which is why he resigned afterwards), Syriza still emerged victorious in the recent elections. REAL criticisms of them aside - THAT is real politics. Pseudo-leftists who prefer to have their head up their ass are in for a big, big surprise, as I am sure you are aware of.



As for the left, it has no one to blame but itself. It's fashionable, in left circles, to blame all of our fuck-ups on inexorable forces beyond our control, ranging from the popular soft-left "muh hegemony" and "muh mass media" to probably the worst of the lot, "muh class has disappeared"

So recognizing, carefully, the means by which we can begin to operate - taking into account the distinct ideological and social character of our present epoch, amounts to blaming all of our problems on forces outside of our control, but saying "muh material conditions are not yet ripe and class conscioness is some objective material force and not actually something that can be spread willfully" is WHAT exactly, in your mind?

I mean, are you fucking kidding me? YES, there are forces outside of our control that are responsible for the deep SHIT we are in - the point of RECOGNIZING these, is simply done insfoar as it is something taken into account at the onset of any attempt to actually do something.

You, Xhar-Xhar, YOU are the one who proposes we sit on our ass and wait for da 'material conditions' to become ripe to the point where your organization's clownish agitation methods would have some kind of effect. What is the failure of the Spart-cult owed to exactly, in your mind? You say the Left has no one to blame but themselves. Very well, who do the Sparts have to blame? Or is that what "success" looks like in your mind?

Any sane person laughs at such a tragically stupid notion.

[Sibotic]

Isn't that a conspiracy?
You think it's conscious, is it possible it's subconscious?
It doesn't necessarily seem like a conspiracy, in the midst of controversy they might well opt to rely on xenophobia to keep up the mutual emotional bonds which they had come to rely upon, but obviously in this sense it's self-defeating quite soon because xenophobia is, obviously, not identical with the system which they're supporting, with the impersonal system which they were supporting, and is its own thing which they can't rely upon or rest on and which implies a departure from actually defending their system. At that point they were gone or have been for a while. Evidently this means that other fields were becoming insupportable for them, and in a way which would imply the abolition of their system regardless of the population's contingencies or the prior need to represent them as atomised and hence content, which was essentially false.

When they rely upon xenophobia inversely to this extent, though - which let's be frank the BNP were generally more an issue of leftists' and activists' alarm and such for in a sense emotional reasons, rather than always the main parties who relied on such rhetoric to an extent - then it pretty much implies that they've given up relying upon something substantial, or that you have a hollow 'state' and a fictitious national government masking the reality vis-a-vis government.

[R.Rubinelli]

It's not as if Sarkozy's Republicans, the MoDem or the Socialist Party are any less xenophobic than the FN. It's just that the rhetoric of the FN makes you want to puke immediately; with the other parties there is a slight delay as they mask their right-wing position with layers and layers of "social" and "republican" rhetoric. If the FN wins, nothing extraordinary will happen. The French state will continue with its "republican" racism the same as it would under the PS or whatever. The same thing happened in Austria, as I like to remind people, where people were going apeshit when Heider was elected, and in the end, of course, he ended up being just another bourgeois politician.

As for the left, it has no one to blame but itself. It's fashionable, in left circles, to blame all of our fuck-ups on inexorable forces beyond our control, ranging from the popular soft-left "muh hegemony" and "muh mass media" to probably the worst of the lot, "muh class has disappeared" of the Bordigists. But the fact is, the left has consistently and grossly failed to present any sort of alternative, any sort of progressive vision, beyond an abstract opposition to this or that aspect of capitalism, and the conviction that it can carry out the programme of the right (democracy and economic growth) better than the right can. Most people I talk to are sick of that; they don't want another student politico yelling "down with austerity" when he obviously has no idea how to do anything about austerity. Besides, how can the left fight xenophobia when it is itself overwhelmingly xenophobic? Listening to most leftists, they're tripping over themselves to apologise for suggesting that perhaps the stinking brown people might stay here.


Well, yes and no. It's no so much what Le Pen, or Trump even, is now, but what forces are attracted to them, and are emboldened by them. So, no doubt the French state is racist and Hollande is doing one bang up job of preparing the ground from Le Pen, but if Le Pen wins, then indeed things will change, in degree-- in the number of darker skinned residents of France who will face overt physical attacks; in the level of police deployed against any workers' activity, etc.

Doesn't mean you should hold your nose and vote for the PS or Sarkozy, or even the NPA, but it does mean you have to recognize what forces are at work, and develop an effective, that is to say class based resistance. In the US I would recommend that workers resist La Migra raids on workplaces; and employer compliance with the laws about hiring only "documented" workers.

[Comrade #138672]

Yes. Xenophobia is rising. Makes sense. Get people all pissed off and afraid so that it harder to see that capitalism is unable to meet our needs.

I do not see how this trend is not reversible. Surely if you think revolution is possible, you would think that the trend of xenophobia must be reversible as well.

[Бай Ганьо]

I'd say, most importantly, it-- xenophobia-- is convenient. Blame the _______________(fill in the blank). A track record of proven success.

Fill the blank with one of the entries listed in this dictionary: http://xenodict.com/