Donald Trump Calls for Registry of Muslims

[Antiochus]

http://mic.com/articles/128943/trump-says-security-is-going-to-rule-after-paris-doubles-down-on-muslims-database#.WghshNkJu

I really hope this c*nt is trolling...

[BIXX]

It's not like he's gonna get elected, and this would never pass.

[PhoenixAsh]

infraction

Even with an astrix that word still falls under prejudiced language.

[Aslan]

This is kinda cliche but doesn't that sound like the stars the nazis put on the Jews in order to identify them? I mean come on even Bill Maher; the most reactionary bourgeois atheist there is was opposed to that kinda shit! If what he says is truly reflective of what a part of Americans believe then I'm scared for the future of this country. Seriously, some people actually do support shit like this!

Racial discrimination and even slavery is the kinda shit these madmen want!: http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/08/19/ia-radio-host-jan-mickelson-enslave-undocumente/205020

[John Nada]

Trump's a fucking populous demagogue who spews shit out of his mouth with no substance. Rightist drones will eat that shit up and lick their lips. Unfortunately there's a lot of those types who bother to vote and have no deep reasoning beyond the illusion that they're going to be rich and hate of the "other, yet Clinton or Sanders can't bullshit and zigzag as much and still appeal to their base. Either Trump's going to play the fool that makes Clinton look good, make Sanders's rightist social democracy look "too extreme" for America given the false choice between him and a fucking buffoon or there's going to be a president who'll be so shitty Revleft users who normally see through this sham "democracy" that is the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie advocate voting for a Democrat who ends up having the same fucked-up policies with "left" cover.

The FCC and media conglomerates are given a semi-fascist wife-raping dipshit who barely stops short advocating genocide a platform to spew hate speech. But it's a-okay so long as it's not the "seven dirty works", people fucking instead of killing each other or admitting drugs are fun without dying:rolleyes:. Not that I expect or desire either to enforce censorship, but it's telling what's an acceptable viewpoint for the bourgeoisie. A lot of them are into that John Birch Society nonsense, which refutes that "special superman who has it so hard that the stolen billions can't make up it" shit.
It's not like he's gonna get elected, and this would never pass.I don't know. Americans are pretty fucking naive and seem to have amnesia every election cycle. The US is possibly the most reactionary 1st-world countries. Requires no knowledge, but a parasitic clown who blends right in with the spectacle of imperialist-capitalism. An actor bullshiting his way through life, like most of the bourgeoisie.

[e_e]

This is not of any surprise, is it? :glare:

[ckaihatsu]

Sign today: Racist policies and white supremacist violence have no place in a democracy.


Donald Trump is now calling for fascist policies and encouraging supporters at his rallies to engage in brutal, racist abuse. It's vital to denounce and reject this behavior.

Sign the denunciation: Reject racist policies and terrorism in the United States! (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h0/WQ-2BlIwq7W2eCmkkcwbDiBV0Frf8aO-2BhheoIczpshG3BX84KwPUwttphFklpZgyVO-2BqT4uMnN9krfQYpZoOVpocfH54QkiA-2FBFvupSydzZzQ7IsVsLtr5VQx0Gei-2FM-2Fa06zzHznuGx3yV6kHTaB1k8QRBmmo2w5YNZe-2FsnYtp2tzsGAIIWN3srNPDjKZl1eefd0mGHTMRB2Uf22UPULH-2FG4hNr9AD-2FY-2FNLIYhwODS10UHWfjRDZNAhK7-2F7nZ2ivIzY8sbW1BMjXmgt-2B2WjtJ7pduVjKDI5DF-2BDgUS-2FRlDK6lOdIFCTjvhlZg286cKMubf1LAXnRzTD9dOPY6u2cZ7b YTsD7jCMw8Y2Yhkl0So72qM41LZXbiE1C338JTuDuC82AzhqFU rbKzUiXn5-2Bzrkaw-3D-3D)

This weekend, video was posted of attendees at a Trump rally tackling, kicking, and punching a #BlackLivesMatter protester while Trump called to them from the stage to "Throw him out!" [1] Asked to account for this on a Sunday morning news show, Trump said of the black victim of the attack, “Maybe he should have been roughed up, because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing.” [2]

This follows multiple incidents of Trump supporters beating up Latino immigration activists, including another case where the assault occurred at a rally and was cheered on by the crowd.

Earlier in the week and following on saying that he'd consider shutting down mosques, Trump repeatedly suggested that Muslim citizens should have their religious affiliation registered in a government database and be made to carry documentation for it. When asked to clarify how this was different from the Jewish registration system in Nazi Germany, Trump responded several times only with, "You tell me." [3]

While he has since backed down from proposing religious registration, it's frightening that a modern politician with a large public following is saying things like this and encouraging racially-motivated physical attacks. After a generation of conservative politicians relying on coded language to blur racially disparaging sentiments, there's nothing mysterious or hard to interpret in Trump's statements or the open violence of his supporters.

Sign today: Racist policies and white supremacist violence have no place in a democracy. (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h1/WQ-2BlIwq7W2eCmkkcwbDiBV0Frf8aO-2BhheoIczpshG3BX84KwPUwttphFklpZgyVO-2BqT4uMnN9krfQYpZoOVpocfH54QkiA-2FBFvupSydzZzQ7IsVsLtr5VQx0Gei-2FM-2Fa06zzHznuGx3yV6kHTaB1k8QRBmmo2w5YNZe-2FsnYtp2tzsGAIIWN3srNPDjKZl1eefd0mGHTMRB2Uf22UPULH-2FG4hNr9AD-2FY-2FNLIYhwODS10UHWfjRDZNAhK7-2F7nZ2ivIzY8sbW1BMjXmgt-2B2WjtJ7pduVjKDI5DF-2BDgUS-2FRlDK6lOdIFCTjvhlZg286cKMubf1LAXnRzTD9dOPY6u2cZ7b YTsD7jCMw8Y2Yhkl0So72qM41LZXbiE1C338JTuDuC82AzhqFU rbKzUiXn5-2Bzrkaw-3D-3D)

This is intolerable behavior in a society that aspires to liberty and justice for every person. It plainly recalls the tyrannical system of white supremacist terror that prevailed during the Jim Crow era, [4] where white people were allowed and encouraged to assault any black person, or a member of any despised minority, who displeased them.

As white hate crimes against visibly Muslim women, Sikhs, and other people of color have increased throughout Europe and North America in the wake of the Paris attacks, it's vital that each of us take this opportunity to resist our own worst impulses and denounce racist violence.

The United States' founding documents weren't written in a time of easy peace, by people with nothing to fear. Written under threat of war and targeted execution, their creators laid out the boldest vision of a free society that they could think of. That freedom they aspired to was not meant as a luxury, but seen as a necessity. Over 200 years later, we must continue to reject the high costs of tyranny.

Sign if you agree: Say no to racist terrorism! (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h2/WQ-2BlIwq7W2eCmkkcwbDiBV0Frf8aO-2BhheoIczpshG3BX84KwPUwttphFklpZgyVO-2BqT4uMnN9krfQYpZoOVpocfH54QkiA-2FBFvupSydzZzQ7IsVsLtr5VQx0Gei-2FM-2Fa06zzHznuGx3yV6kHTaB1k8QRBmmo2w5YNZe-2FsnYtp2tzsGAIIWN3srNPDjKZl1eefd0mGHTMRB2Uf22UPULH-2FG4hNr9AD-2FY-2FNLIYhwODS10UHWfjRDZNAhK7-2F7nZ2ivIzY8sbW1BMjXmgt-2B2WjtJ7pduVjKDI5DF-2BDgUS-2FRlDK6lOdIFCTjvhlZg286cKMubf1LAXnRzTD9dOPY6u2cZ7b YTsD7jCMw8Y2Yhkl0So72qM41LZXbiE1C338JTuDuC82AzhqFU rbKzUiXn5-2Bzrkaw-3D-3D)

---

[1] - "Trump: 'I want surveillance of certain mosques,' (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h3/Cx3MiTKZVSZsIZ976XUXkQjXYBhWZ9u-2BOb5X3c6A3xw-2BwTdY7s-2B-2FJEtSlhmBM-2BnVINXF9ONfGjMiqGxGS01v0QQXQy368xG2DAfLzsEjcc7zg9 7SnU26IQ8oKmil-2Bgzi7BHyjVTTYnksrqWrSdn8f-2BKv1HmXPPaqpObBfyhAGVQdk-2FEeMhZ1DTBwHgZoioAIAhkqePOzf2K6j3vJfpRIqA9BAWcSNk 6ud6aL-2FxToKYRNS7ctHW-2FVIeUv8BaJA-2BkdvFAU0uWgXJWo2l75UH42jTK3LdPbBI7wWpOsDe4-2FsXfMznNTCfPLa1Pkt-2B8KG7kLR0-2BIfkuGy7fWHmLR-2BfCF5YbTUlTJqHPEBsc8xCD-2FLuH1YbbtV70OKOtvjhfMmtexPQuxoIPqzeCS-2BCS9ebunwpYvrGn8ybbDSctOhLyyVuc-3D)" by David Mark and Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Nov. 21, 2015

[2] - "Trump on rally protester: ‘Maybe he should have been roughed up’, (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h4/mb-2FqhNwiPwHg26xxrzU0i8Q9Frt-2Blva-2BeRc22g73iCFk6YglQx5qi5XM9oYclggluA2dfDdDvHwMKJyv upQ2PGWuROt3YZggmAbWg6geQZZ6qnEepJ4pgTQQ385GyZnF3v bC-2BQefGkYmBN8cMVJ2T-2FO3UFOCUuB9bcZi4t5uTlfKktgVCfGIW6IG-2FDdwx5uZuOQd61ncCNh03K-2Fi1HIGATK4iRKvIuRtkNUAi3KKQ-2FrlcvautR-2FWdrYkCc5Lqm5kworIm0l4DMfopVeq23I7LYJP5QXAsYvmICq 0jLksb3ipkee581RyHWqbocBY6DacpO7-2BHI2Qa7WEfbeTb-2Bu2EREdf53AurLI7A7XvK82EmLS-2BkUdprliQRdcEjW6C03-2FomGGmoaOPTcgNx20Lyk5zauJ2pSuDUPjekvPkd7eLDVUNdJ3 HSQPpjRFlyCEy96TTEZE6I6NkM-2FStTeHmY7Y6r8fXX8QAO-2BBuePHVbqZYOQ-3D)" by Jenna Johnson and Mary Jordan, The Washington Post, Nov. 22, 2015

[3] - "Donald Trump Says He's Open to Requiring American Muslims to Carry Special IDs, (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h5/LXF7q20aJ-2F1EyU-2FNmAoP-2BlDB4SUtbYggWGDL9TohB3BSI9BQ4RAt8WyCpIf7g18pJyk43 DszBHwGHBK-2Bpc1TIUZCuH-2BabvajLfczDU-2BgIKB7AgP-2Fa-2BYbHvghut0-2BGo6cCgQNvDkB4uyJ73ZnI08hTnGNaKa0CoDzFM5FP5Yfuvhu N3StVw-2FSB6-2FbbdoAa4NqR-2BhbqCaWRsrxNrIO1zjvBPMQ5YoBfP0RnLDk6LDrBxmEwKPZab O72r3bEFc0D9-2F1ovEDe-2Bk9CHxL70R9w4wCEEiSEqBagStcfWAtV8dp2MlTlJdOUwM7V-2BZIaKp4adROmvd-2F3B3hvktbZyzfcNy7XZBgBLFfW-2BxdKQtnBYmRw4Q7Vq5Vw0YJg-2BrkaoU1uPg-2BxSLRVFlocwIcwCn-2By4Ec-2FLbfiMGXDLqXPLyoq25hVEI7E1L0yqyBB63oZVVL-2FEvOep4KM-2F5BgxH-2FecNpZoUzljo1mfxjt6ocEz0-2F1AuwoKo-3D)" by Miles E. Johnson, Mother Jones, Nov. 19, 2015

[4] - "Most of you have no idea what Martin Luther King actually did, (http://click.actionnetwork.org/mpss/c/3wA/ni0YAA/t.1sd/hDQU65HbSyOXZTP8W09xFw/h6/zR1J7iRW-2BzS6i1Q9SLTfweDE-2BbgldW-2BANtuAug6jAsQranqAxat7QRos2KKxPhFHzzacEKswWcEN-2B1YCY9Fk125SuHHWXP8HNp05w8VWR3WlMpv45zLLvZK56JkO8 QAZEa6lHYH2rJ0nsNEbQyFuYzOtqt-2FhX9IKgomSLynu-2FjXZUaJckERddrtKAaNTU9a3QO-2Fw5BXq0aa1JFY5npEdttWRDJGkmiyfiIzB7jOhZpgl-2BkTw7DpQPc-2FvbXoo-2Be-2FsTFq-2BhedHLMVGCb3wNnrvTyIUzgQwDJpc0YyGz0es9L6sa-2FhInJojijO8xqgziE5zFZkvPaxN0pA31BeEokJjWLN4N9IqlB EFSjq1hdpN7aNHUQiXoOUtqLAWKkBmCc9tGwuQwRJEq8ql0uP2 YAB5ag-3D-3D)" by HamdenRice, DailyKos, August 29, 2011

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[Synergy]

Not to discourage activism (since it's played a huge role in civil rights) but I don't get the particular point of this one. I don't think any protests are going to stop Trump from saying discriminatory things.

[Fourth Internationalist]

infraction

Even with an astrix that word still falls under prejudiced language.

Does "dick" fall under this category along with "****" (and "pussy", perhaps) since both imply inherently feminine/masculine traits and reinforce how behavior is viewed differently from one sex to the next? Not that "dick" is used to oppress men or anything silly like that, but in a technical way so neither should be used, because I imagine this would also be problematic because there are transgender women who do have penises and that word would reinforce the idea that they are "masculine"?

[ckaihatsu]

Not to discourage activism (since it's played a huge role in civil rights) but I don't get the particular point of this one. I don't think any protests are going to stop Trump from saying discriminatory things.


I tend to see petitioning and much of activism as being *formalizing* actions, or f.y.i., at least -- I wouldn't confuse or substitute such formalities for (revolutionary) *politics* itself, especially since these issues are definitely *not* of our own choosing, and only tend to pull us 'center-ward', as if by centripetal force.


Leftism -- Want, Get



http://s6.postimg.org/ck1nuep69/2270260350046342459jii_Kc_V_fs.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/kpjpskdf1/full/)


Ideologies & Operations -- Left Centrifugalism



http://s6.postimg.org/3si9so4xd/110211_Ideologies_Operations_Left_Centrifug.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/zc8b2rb3h/full/)

[motion denied]

i mean people elected cowboy reagan and bush jr

[ShadowStar]

This is not any surprise. Donald Trump is Stormfront's favorite candidate after all.

[Ricemilk]

This is kinda cliche but doesn't that sound like the stars the nazis put on the Jews in order to identify them?I'm not sure if that's the most similar part of the Nazi laws to this, but either way, it's blatantly in the fascist tradition for sure.


I mean come on even Bill Maher; the most reactionary bourgeois atheist there is was opposed to that kinda shit! If what he says is truly reflective of what a part of Americans believe then I'm scared for the future of this country. Seriously, some people actually do support shit like this!Not to excuse them at all, but I don't think most USians give a lot of meaningful thought to fascism and how to avoid it. These prejudices are, I suspect, almost too crude to qualify as beliefs. They passively consume propaganda and propagandistic art all day and night, telling them to be scared of this, that and the other thing, but I suspect most would claim to be against fascism and religious discrimination. That's sort of a conjecture, but if it turned out to be true, there'd still be some hope for recovery through committed and organized popular political education.


Racial discrimination and even slavery is the kinda shit these madmen want!That's nothing new; slavery was never fully abolished (it remains legal in prisons, many of which are privately owned), and prebellum apologetics have always had a place in the mainstream right. It's a troubling development in an election, but not a radically new challenge.

[ckaihatsu]

White supremacists shoot 5 at Minneapolis justice for Jamar Clark protest

By staff

Minneapolis, MN - A week-old protest demanding justice for Jamar Clark, who was slain by Minneapolis police, was attacked by a small group of white supremacists at 10:45 p.m. the night of Nov. 23. The racists approached the occupation at the Fourth Precinct police station as they have done for the past few nights, being disruptive and shouting racial slurs. A group of protesters were marshalling the racists away from the main protest when the white supremacists opened fire and shot five people.

Three people are in the hospital. At least one required surgery for an abdominal wound. No fatalities are reported.

Jess Sundin of the Anti-War Committee reported, “When I arrived about an hour after the shooting about 200 people were here, chanting, ‘No justice no peace, prosecute the police.’ Witnesses reported that when officers outside the station were asked to help, one cop said, "That's what you wanted," then turned his back and walked inside the station. Multiple people called 911; help took 15 minutes to arrive. When police finally took action, they maced the protesters and interfered with some people giving medical aid to the injured. Shameful.” Sundin added, “The people who were here when the shooting happened are stunned but remain strong and committed to the cause of justice for Jamar Clark.”

Black Lives Matter Minneapolis issued a brief message, “Tonight white supremacists attacked the #4thPrecinctShutdown in an act of domestic terrorism. We need you here tomorrow. We won’t be intimidated. Students are walking out.”

Sundin added, “White supremacists act with impunity in this country because they are emboldened by Donald Trump, The Tea Party, other politicians and law enforcement. Just two days ago Trump congratulated people for beating up a Black Lives Matter activist that asked questions at his rally. Tonight we have avowed white supremacists shooting demonstrators against police brutality. It’s sick."

She ended by urging people to march in solidarity with #Justice4Jamar Tuesday Nov. 24 at 2:00 p.m. starting at Plymouth and Morgan Avenues in North Minneapolis.

Read more News and Views from the Peoples Struggle at http://www.fightbacknews.org. You can write to us at [email protected]

[Comrade #138672]

Hitler also seemed unelectable. Don't underestimate that guy Trump. He knows what he is doing. He is highly dangerous.

[mutualaid]

voting is for the birds and Trump is no worse than any of the rest of the buffoons running for chief CEO of the united states. He just says what everyone else wish they could; if cruz or bush could get away with talking about muslim registries, they would. The problem is the system, not a candidate. In some ways, Trump is valuable because he exposes how absurd the entire process has become.

[Comrade #138672]

voting is for the birds and Trump is no worse than any of the rest of the buffoons running for chief CEO of the united states. He just says what everyone else wish they could; if cruz or bush could get away with talking about muslim registries, they would. The problem is the system, not a candidate. In some ways, Trump is valuable because he exposes how absurd the entire process has become.But he is worse. Yes, it can get a lot worse. Acknowledging that does not mean advocating lesser-evilism, though.

Trump does not expose the system. He is in fact obscuring it by scapegoating people and making people believe that he will fix everything.

[Counterculturalist]

Both of the above posts present plausible interpretations of the Trump phenomenon. My own issue with Trump is that I think he is helping bringing large masses of people's racism, bigotry and desire for a strongman to fix everything to the fore; even if he doesn't get elected, he is helping to create a climate where we may well see a resurgence of full-scale, genocidal fascism that ushers in a permanent state of authoritarian capitalism and crushes all dissent. The flipside is that he is simply the personification of tendencies that are already occurring as a result of liberal/bourgeois capitalism reaching its logical conclusion. Either way, it seems pretty crucial for us to start getting our shit together.

[VukBZ2005]

Both of the above posts present plausible interpretations of the Trump phenomenon. My own issue with Trump is that I think he is helping bringing large masses of people's racism, bigotry and desire for a strongman to fix everything to the fore; even if he doesn't get elected, he is helping to create a climate where we may well see a resurgence of full-scale, genocidal fascism that ushers in a permanent state of authoritarian capitalism and crushes all dissent. The flipside is that he is simply the personification of tendencies that are already occurring as a result of liberal/bourgeois capitalism reaching its logical conclusion. Either way, it seems pretty crucial for us to start getting our shit together.

I will agree with you in this instance. However, I would also say that "geting our shit together" involves resolving some serious ideological disputes beforehand.

[mutualaid]

Acknowledging that does not mean advocating lesser-evilism, though.


It absolutely does. Explain how Trump is any worse than Cruz Rubio Bush Santorum, etc? The point is that the system is flawed, as long as we have this system, US will always have candidates like trump (in fact US has always had candidates like trump, obama is no different - just a different mask with the same agenda). All of the candidates are sadistic capitalists who want to further militarize profit. We shouldn't think that small reforms or superficial parliamentary processes are valuable; a stateless, classless society won't come through small reforms to a capitalist system and it's dangerous to assume it will. The only difference with trump is now we know what they really think, which is valuable.

[Comrade #138672]

It absolutely does. Explain how Trump is any worse than Cruz Rubio Bush Santorum, etc? The point is that the system is flawed, as long as we have this system, US will always have candidates like trump (in fact US has always had candidates like trump, obama is no different - just a different mask with the same agenda). All of the candidates are sadistic capitalists who want to further militarize profit. We shouldn't think that small reforms or superficial parliamentary processes are valuable; a stateless, classless society won't come through small reforms to a capitalist system and it's dangerous to assume it will. The only difference with trump is now we know what they really think, which is valuable.
You are right to look beyond individual politicians. It is indeed capitalism that we are fighting, but do you really believe that it does not matter if Trump wins? Do not underestimate the power of a dictator. Imagine how that would affect worker's struggles. People seem to forget how demoralizing Reagan and Thatcher were for the working class.

We want the class enemy to be as weak as possible. Trump would not hesitate to crush worker organizations the best he could. It is not like Obama was so great for the working class, but yeah. It can get a lot worse.

[mutualaid]

but do you really believe that it does not matter if Trump wins?

I hear you, but I truly believe it doesn't matter who wins. US presidents aren't as powerful as the people who lead global financial institutions and military industrial complex (in fact, I'm pretty sure they're the ones who end up really choosing the president and tell him/her what to do). Trump won't win (the republican establishment won't let it happen) but even that doesn't really matter; my point is this: as revolutionaries, we shouldn't define our political agency on the terms that the capitalist system gives to us.

[Comrade #138672]

I know that we shouldn't do that. This is why I was careful to separate the acknowledgement that it can get worse from endorsing lesser-evilism (e.g., to endorse Hillary Clinton to prevent Trump from winning).

[mutualaid]

(e.g., to endorse Hillary Clinton to prevent Trump from winning).

I think this proves my point, she is the worst candidate by far. Ideologically, part of the reason for trump's presence might be to sanitize the horrendous inevitability of another clinton. Hillary Clinton is a vicious war monger and she belongs in jail for her war crimes. She supports drone strikes, the state of israel, mass incarceration, private prison industry, mass surveillance, the iraq war, etc. She worked for barry goldwater. She is the candidate of wall st and will probably win for that reason. How can anyone make an argument that hillary clinton is the lesser of evils; when we assume that the leading figurehead of power is the lesser of two evils, then the propaganda of capitalism's so-called democratic processes has clearly won, which is why we should revolutionize the system and not focus on individuals as if they are exceptions to the rule.

[The Feral Underclass]

Has anyone else seen him do an impression of disabled journalist Serge Kovalesk? When you thought it couldn't get any worse...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11/26/trump-mocks-journalist-with-disability_n_8653838.html?ncid=fcbklnkukhpmg000000 01

[blake 3:17]

It's not like he's gonna get elected, and this would never pass.

I'm always astonished at how much faith ultra lefts put in the capitalist state.

I think there is a very good chance of Trump being elected, and given his absolute rejection of due process or any notions of fairness I don't see why this couldn't happen. McCarthyism blindsided tonnes of people -- many of its victims had been seen as heroes from the Second World War.

[ckaihatsu]

Both of the above posts present plausible interpretations of the Trump phenomenon. My own issue with Trump is that I think he is helping bringing large masses of people's racism, bigotry and desire for a strongman to fix everything to the fore;


Agreed.





even if he doesn't get elected, he is helping to create a climate where we may well see a resurgence of full-scale, genocidal fascism that ushers in a permanent state of authoritarian capitalism and crushes all dissent.


Certainly this would be *expected*, but I think the powers-that-be no longer have any kind of *domestic political hegemony*, as for funneling public opinion into jingoistic nationalism, that they *used* to have, as in the two world wars.

Without *domestic* support on a *nationalist* basis for ongoing militaristic adventurism it's not going to be *logistically possible* for the establishment because the 'mainstream' political sentiment won't be sufficient to support it. (Arguably the turning point regarding the U.S. and Russia was over South Ossetia in 2008, and the turning point for NATO was regarding Syria in 2013, with the Ghouta chemical attack.)

The media coverage on Trump and his xenophobia, etc., may actually *be* a sign of relative progressivism, since these social issues (like immigration) *are* being covered as political issues, also revealing the racism that was already there and not usually reported in the mainstream press. (I don't think the media is *stoking* reactionary sentiment.)





The flipside is that he is simply the personification of tendencies that are already occurring as a result of liberal/bourgeois capitalism reaching its logical conclusion. Either way, it seems pretty crucial for us to start getting our shit together.

[Counterculturalist]

Mainstream media has both progressive and conservative elements. I would argue that both are horrified by Trump, the progressive elements for obvious reasons, and the conservative elements because he lays bare what their dog-whistle terminology means in plain English.

Part of Trump's success has been because of his ability to bypass traditional media and appeal to followers who are both skeptical of mainstream media, and at the same time lacking in critical thinking skills and ignorant of alternative sources of information. His followers are the type of people who think that the 5 O'clock news and their local paper are full of lies, yet uncritically accept what they read in Youtube comment sections and Facebook memes.

I don't mean to glorify mainstream media with these comments. In some ways, Trump's fans have taken an important first step in realizing that the mainstream media's narrative is false, or at least heavily compromised. Without a strong left - and by that I mean a strong communist left - to counter Trump's perceived alternative, I worry that America will respond to capitalism's decay with fascism - and further, that this danger exists regardless of whether Trump gets elected, because of what he has unleashed.

[MarxSchmarx]

As a discussion of a form of religious bigotry, this belongs in discrimination

[Zoop]

It just gets worse.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/07/donald-trump-ban-all-muslims-entering-us-san-bernardino-shooting

[Invader Zim]

Hitler also seemed unelectable. Don't underestimate that guy Trump. He knows what he is doing. He is highly dangerous.

Hitler was unelectable. He achieved power through cheating, intimidation and collaboration from the Weimar right in March 1933. In the previous (semi)fair (the Nazis also cheated in that election but to a lesser extent than in Nov '32), the Nazis were on the decline having haemorrhaged 2 million votes since the previous election in July earlier that year.

[Sibotic]

Both pretending to be a 'Christian' country - which is obviously important if often unacknowledged for this kind of angle in response to Muslims - and calling for a registry of 'Muslims,' which is a religion rather than a 'race' and such to a greater extent than other religions with a more pronounced racial element, seem unlikely to co-exist peacefully. Islam is pretty much acknowledged to be a 'religion,' so realistically it's a weird situation for that lot. Given that they don't really have any solid basis for this identification of Muslims with a racial entity of some form, and don't want to identify as Christians per se (pretending to be Jedi might be more up their street), you don't really take this seriously as associated with 'fascism,' perhaps play-fascism for little reason.

[Comrade Jacob]

infraction

Even with an astrix that word still falls under prejudiced language.

o no! Where I'm from that word is a way of life.

[Sibotic]

o no! Where I'm from that word is a way of life.
Infract them, and then it won't be. You'd just have to stop them from voting for Trump, other than using the word, and then the process would be complete.

[Quail]

The reason we give infractions for the word c*nt is because in the US by definition it is a derogatory word for "woman" - that may not be the case elsewhere (personally I use it a lot just to refer to genitals and occasionally as a term of endearment) but out of respect to American comrades and others who do find the word offensive, it makes sense not to use it.

I won't say anything further, but any more attempts to derail the thread about the rules will result in infractions.

[Anatoli]

Donald Trump is a liability for the Republicans and an 'asset' for the Left. The more he mouths discriminatory remarks against Muslims and blacks, the more the voters will become alienated. Barack Obama suggested Bernie Sanders for President. Because of the slanderous remarks they will reflect on the Republicans and the less of the voters who will support them.

[Luís Henrique]

I'm always astonished at how much faith ultra lefts put in the capitalist state.

How would one be "ultra-left", if they didn't rely in the bourgeois State to check the most destructive tendencies of the system? You know, we can't count on the working class to do this, because it would be "reformism", so somebody else has to stop fascism, and that somebody else is most likely to be the bourgeois State than not.

Luís Henrique

[Luís Henrique]

Hitler

Well, Trump (at least at this moment) is no Hitler. He does not have a mass movement behind him, he has no private army of street brigands, he does not have a political party, he does not have any kind of permanent organisation.

This does not mean that he isn't dangerous, of course. He is certainly moving the Republican Party to the right, and he has scared other candidates into seconding, or at least not opposing, his proposals.

On the other hand, we don't know exactly what he is doing. Is he really running for President? Or is this just a publicity stunt? Or, as some more paranoid Republicans believe, a Clintonite manoever to destroy the GOP? Or an attempt to build a third party to the right of the Republicans?

Anyway, the Republican Party is deeply divided, Trump is an integral part of that, and it is quite possible that the GOP won't be able to hold together for much more time in a relatively short future. And that puts the American political system in danger, because it can't function with more than two parties.

Luís Henrique

[ckaihatsu]

I'm always astonished at how much faith ultra lefts put in the capitalist state.

I think there is a very good chance of Trump being elected, and given his absolute rejection of due process or any notions of fairness I don't see why this couldn't happen. McCarthyism blindsided tonnes of people -- many of its victims had been seen as heroes from the Second World War.





How would one be "ultra-left", if they didn't rely in the bourgeois State to check the most destructive tendencies of the system? You know, we can't count on the working class to do this, because it would be "reformism", so somebody else has to stop fascism, and that somebody else is most likely to be the bourgeois State than not.


As a matter of definition these are both inaccurate uses of the term 'ultra-left' -- such *wouldn't* look to the bourgeois state *at all*, under any circumstances, since the term indicates a greater degree of relative abstentionism from day-to-day politics and empirical developments.





The term ultra-leftism has two overlapping uses. One usage is a generally pejorative term for certain types of positions on the far left that are seen as extreme or intransigent. The term is also used—pejoratively or not—to refer to a particular current of Marxist communism, which is closely related to council communism and left communism.

Ultra-left currents within left communism are often subject to criticisms from other factions of the left. The left communist organization International Communist Current refuses to work with leftist groups except other left communists or anarchists. Gilles Dauvé (also known as Jean Barrot), a left communist theorist, argues that all bourgeois regimes should be opposed, and that revolutionaries should not defend liberal democracy against fascism.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-leftism

[Mr. Piccolo]

Mainstream media has both progressive and conservative elements. I would argue that both are horrified by Trump, the progressive elements for obvious reasons, and the conservative elements because he lays bare what their dog-whistle terminology means in plain English.

Part of Trump's success has been because of his ability to bypass traditional media and appeal to followers who are both skeptical of mainstream media, and at the same time lacking in critical thinking skills and ignorant of alternative sources of information. His followers are the type of people who think that the 5 O'clock news and their local paper are full of lies, yet uncritically accept what they read in Youtube comment sections and Facebook memes.

I don't mean to glorify mainstream media with these comments. In some ways, Trump's fans have taken an important first step in realizing that the mainstream media's narrative is false, or at least heavily compromised. Without a strong left - and by that I mean a strong communist left - to counter Trump's perceived alternative, I worry that America will respond to capitalism's decay with fascism - and further, that this danger exists regardless of whether Trump gets elected, because of what he has unleashed.

Just anecdotal evidence, most of the Trump supporters I know are less-affluent white guys. They are not doing well in this economy. They seem to be somewhat similar to the people that I know who supported Ron Paul.

I think these people like Trump because he is an outsider but also blames "the usual suspects" like Muslims, immigrants or whoever. It is sad that Trump's base is reacting to their worsening economic prospects by supporting him but we are seeing this in Europe also. The populist Right is reaching out to people who feel (probably correctly) that their lives are getting worse but are playing the scapegoat game, not criticizing capitalism as such.

[ckaihatsu]

A victory for refugees. Thanks to you.


Dear MoveOn member,

Something important happened last week: We stopped Congress from slamming the door on Syrian families seeking refuge. Against the odds, compassion and our best American values prevailed—beating out fear, hate-baiting, and xenophobia.1

It didn't just happen. We fought for it. And we won.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.moveon.org/images/output_eCmusA.gif

In the middle of this holiday season, we wanted to share what happened—and celebrate—with you.

Just weeks ago, an anti-refugee backlash had enormous momentum. Donald Trump and other Republican presidential candidates were shamelessly stoking fears and scapegoating refugees in the aftermath of the Paris attacks. Dozens of governors declared Syrian refugees weren't welcome in their states.

Congressional offices were "hearing more on this refugee issue than they have heard on any other issue in the last eight years, more than Obamacare, more than anything," according to insiders quoted by Politico.2 The U.S. House quickly passed a draconian bill, with a veto-proof majority, to effectively stop Syrian resettlement programs.

Everyone thought the anti-refugee bill would sail through the Senate. Or if it didn’t, then surely it would be attached to the must-pass spending bill, as conservatives were demanding. Either way, thousands of Syrian families would find their hope of safety suddenly disappear.

But something happened that Washington wasn’t counting on: our community stood up.

We signed and delivered hundreds of thousands of petition signatures. We flooded Congress with phone calls—at least 25,000 calls from MoveOn members alone. We marched in the streets at dozens of vigils and rallies with “Refugees Welcome” signs held high. We conducted polling research showing that Democrats can confidently stand with refugees. We used social media to share more than 150 digital posters celebrating legislators who did the right thing—and calling out those who caved in the face of fear.

And we welcomed refugee families into our homes for Thanksgiving-themed dinners. I hosted one at my home—where newcomers to America broke bread with civic leaders, my family members, and our member of Congress, Representative Jan Schakowsky.

Through all of this work, we gained momentum in our work to defend America's highest ideals. First, the Senate refused to pass the terrible House bill. Then, when Republicans tried to tuck the anti-refugee measures into a big, must-pass spending bill, we kept fighting back—and by the time House Speaker Paul Ryan counted his votes, so many representatives had changed their position that he had to abandon the effort.

There is so much more we can—and must—do to tackle one of the greatest global migration and refugee crises since World War II. But last week marked an important victory in turning back some very dark impulses in American politics.

As many of us prepare to spend holidays with family, we also remember that there are many people who have no home to turn to, including more than four million Syrian refugees—half of whom are children—and millions more around the world.3 Over the past month, we have taken small steps to help these families. In the new year, with new resolve, let's continue to work to live up to the essential values proclaimed on the Statue of Liberty: "Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."

Happy holidays from all of us at MoveOn.

Thanks for all you do.

—Anna, Ben W., Justin K., Emily, and the rest of the team

P.S. If you'd like to make a gift this holiday season to help us continue standing with refugees in 2016, click here.

Sources:

1. "Congress Clears Bill Averting Shutdown," CNN, December 18, 2015
http://act.moveon.org/go/392?t=3&akid=160604.7761820.KjwT6W

2. "Lobbyists, in Strategy Session, Conclude That Refugee Crisis 'Helps Us' Defeat Regulations," The Intercept, November 24, 2015
http://act.moveon.org/go/397?t=5&akid=160604.7761820.KjwT6W

3. "Stretching Facts on Syrian Refugees," FactCheck.Org, September 15, 2015
http://act.moveon.org/go/395?t=7&akid=160604.7761820.KjwT6W


Want to support our work? MoveOn member contributions have powered our work together for more than 17 years. Hundreds of thousands of people chip in each year—which is why we're able to be fiercely independent, answering to no individual, corporation, politician, or political party. You can become a monthly donor by clicking here, or chip in a one-time gift here.


This email was sent to Chris Kaihatsu on December 24th, 2015. To change your email address or update your contact info, click here. To remove yourself from this list, click here.

[ckaihatsu]

West Michigan protest against Wall Street politician Donald Trump

http://www.fightbacknews.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-lead-photo/confrontTrump.jpg

By Tom Burke

Grand Rapids, MI - Wall Street politician Donald Trump was expecting a friendly reception at the Deltaplex Arena on the outskirts of a Grand Rapids industrial park. Instead Trump faced the largest protest seen at a Republican campaign rally in Grand Rapids for more than a generation.

200 protesters rallied against Trump in West Michigan on Dec. 21. Enthusiastic protesters chanted as cars drove past the entrance, “Hey Donnie! Let’s be clear, refugees are welcome here!” and “Dump Trump! Dump Trump!”

Mike DeRuiter, standing with a big “Dump Trump” banner said, “Look, the last thing we need is another Wall Street politician like Donald Trump. We are out here to oppose Trump and the Republican agenda of hate, fear and war.”

As another group for immigrant rights rallied across the road, DeRuiter said, “Immigrants contribute a lot to this country, while billionaires like Trump profit off of them. Trump wants to scapegoat Muslims and refugees when the real problem is Wall Street and its wars in the Middle East.”

Eleven different people disrupted Trump’s hour-long speech inside, as 7000 Trump supporters and curiosity seekers listened. Some began to leave before the hour-long speech was over, filing out in small groups.

Grand Rapids is the hometown of President Gerald R. Ford, infamous for pardoning impeached President Richard Nixon after the Watergate burglary scandal.

Read more News and Views from the Peoples Struggle at http://www.fightbacknews.org. You can write to us at [email protected]

[Fire]

Trump is never going to get elected but he is going to be in the meantime providing a platform and a sense of legitimacy to people with bigoted racist views. People who would have otherwise hidden their awfulness now feel that they have permission to air it in public since Trump is able to get away with it. Boy we hate political correctness, don't we?

[johnstone]

he's a talented billionaire