What should we do with psychopaths?

[Die Neue Zeit]

What should we do with psychopaths? Their psychological influence extends to corporations. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5hEiANG4Uk)

[Rafiq]

The significance of the psychopath is a social one. Psychopaths are "dangerous" not because they are psychopaths, but because society has good use for their qualities. Take this away, and the psychopath is no longer some sinister, caniving, 'evil' person but probably just a very socially inept person.

Let us say you are born psychopathic, i.e. you are born with some mental defect that allows one for one to be "psychopathic". This does not translate into being someone ruthlessly manipulates others with no consideration for the proximity of your relationship to them.

Recall Marx's famous undersatnding of the division of labor: Marx argued that the division of labor did not stem from inherent skills or traits, but that the traits/skills themselves were only real categories after they were structurally necessiated by a new social totality (which included the division of labor). In other words, for Marx, the division of labor preceded any kind of innateness in skill. That is not to say people with have no physiological characteristics that make them more able for this or that kind of work, it just means that the significance of those characteristics (having a lot of stamina, being taller, being smaller, whatever you want) is wrought from its social context. A society can value women with longer necks - and certainly some women are born with longer necks. But the significance of having a long neck has nothing to do with the actual neck itself, but its social significance.

"Psychopaths" for us are not a problem and never have been. The significance of the "psychopath" is an ideological perversion of postmodern society which needs to find boogeymen underlying the outwardness of social relations - the task of us as Marxists is to recognize that the outwardness is all that matters, no matter if the capitalists are psychopaths, possessed by demons, or aliens from outer space - it is the socially necessary role of being a capitalist that proceeds the ability for this or that person to be more-abled in conforming to it. In this sense, one can do well to compare the image of a "psychopath" with anti-semitism (or any conspiracy theory). That is not to say psychopaths are an oppressed people, the point is that people view some alien "intruder" as underlying problems that are inherently systemic and structural.

The "science" behind psychopathy is really flimsy however.

[cyu]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/proof-plutocrats-unfit-t180387/index.html

I suspect that the more power is concentrated at the top of an organizational pyramid, the more this type of behavior is developed in the people who are promoted to that position. One way to prevent this from getting worse in a person, is intentionally avoid concentration of power. (Maybe that's just my anarchist bias showing, who knows.)

[Die Neue Zeit]

Take this away, and the psychopath is no longer some sinister, caniving, 'evil' person but probably just a very socially inept person.

[...]

The significance of the "psychopath" is an ideological perversion of postmodern society which needs to find boogeymen underlying the outwardness of social relations - the task of us as Marxists is to recognize that the outwardness is all that matters, no matter if the capitalists are psychopaths, possessed by demons, or aliens from outer space - it is the socially necessary role of being a capitalist that proceeds the ability for this or that person to be more-abled in conforming to it. In this sense, one can do well to compare the image of a "psychopath" with anti-semitism (or any conspiracy theory). That is not to say psychopaths are an oppressed people, the point is that people view some alien "intruder" as underlying problems that are inherently systemic and structural.

The "science" behind psychopathy is really flimsy however.

How is the "science behind psychopathy" flimsy?

I don't see psychopathy studies as a postmodern thing, but perhaps an untapped avenue for the left to take advantage of, especially with regards to crime and punishment.

While it's very interesting that you mentioned comparing the "image" of the psychopath (different usage of quotation marks for emphasis) to anti-Semitism, crime and punishment has usually been a neglected area of public policymaking on the left.

[Rafiq]

How is the "science behind psychopathy" flimsy?

I don't see psychopathy studies as a postmodern thing, but perhaps an untapped avenue for the left to take advantage of, especially with regards to crime and punishment.

Because the only real "scientific" evidence behind a so-called 'innate' psychopathy usually relates to the so-called "warrior gene" or MAOA whose employment by criminologists is literally a form of scientific racism. According to studies, people who produce less MAOA enzymes are more likely to be "aggressive", and other studies have rebuked this - such as pointing out that people who have this are only likely to become more 'aggressive' later in life only if they were maltreated as children.

Real studies have found that the variation in the gene has absolutely no effect on 'aggressiveness' or 'impulsiveness' unless the people in question were maltreated as chidren.

The origin again was to explain Maori crime in New Zealand, and now, it goes that: 59% of African Americans have it, 56% of Maori, 54% of Chinese, and ~35% of Caucasians. Again, it's very flimsy science, the data is highly questionable. But even if it was correct it would be complete nonsense as far as 'explaining' crime considering that Chinese people have it, and crime in China is very low. Researchers have rebuked and called into question a lot of the bullshit about the "Maoris' having a "warrior gene". And studies are very slim here: What proportion of Latin Americans, South Asians, Arabs, South Europeans, Slavs, ETC. have it?

But again, the "warrior gene" has nothing to do with psychopathy but "aggressive" impulsiveness. That can mean a billion different things in different contexts, including gambling, ETC.

There is no reason to think "psychopathy" is a real problem, or ever was a problem in our world.


While it's very interesting that you mentioned comparing the "image" of the psychopath (different usage of quotation marks for emphasis) to anti-Semitism, crime and punishment has usually been a neglected area of public policymaking on the left.

Crime and punishment for Leftists has no regard for racist pseudo-science, however. The image of a psychopath relates to anti-semitism because our society is inclined to think that they are some boogyman that are behind ever abuse of power - i.e. that capitalism and our world would be just fine if only there were no psychopaths in it. Psychopaths, like the "eternal Jew" is an intruding figure in an otherwise 'harmonious' society.

[Aslan]

Don't forget that many politicians show psychopathic traits. This however shouldn't be surprising since psychopaths are perfect for that sort of job. A politician must never show his true emotions, a politician must be calm even if millions of lives depend on them, A politician must be charismatic, etc. Most CEOs of companies show these traits as well.

All humans show psychopathy. Any "differences" between different races or ethnic groups in rates of the mental disease is nothing more than vile scientific rascism.

[Luís Henrique]

What should we do with psychopaths? Their psychological influence extends to corporations. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5hEiANG4Uk)

I really don't buy this idea. What we are seeing is a dumbing down of the concept of psychopathy, that makes merely selfish people look like psychopaths. Seriously, I am not interested in putting an equal sign between a guy who vandalises property by paint spraying his own name over it and a guy who disembowels women because God told him to do so. Those are very different phenomenon, and only the latter is really worrysome.

This foolish idea that CEOs are psychopaths, or that the proportion of psychopaths among CEOs is higher than among the general population is of course a tasty bait for the left, but it really distracts from the actual point: normal people like you and me are perfectly able to exploit and dehumanise others in a routinely way. That's an effect of how our society is structured, and requires no psychopathological explanations.

A lot of this speculation revolves among the ill-defined concept of empathy: psychopaths would be human beings "devoid of empathy". But empathy means several different things, and to be "empathic" at the level it apparently is required to forteit the condition of "psychopath" would probably make us hysterical or depressive, unable to do anything because any of our actions could inadvertently harm someone somewhere somehow.

A psychopath is a guy who can't understand what the problem is with doing serious harm to another human being, nor why would the idiots called "normal" people avoid doing it, who takes pleasure on such actions, and who makes no distinctions between strangers and close people. Not someone who doesn't care if his computers are made through semi-slave labour in a sweatshop.

Luís Henrique

[cyu]

http://i.imgur.com/m9uyeSc.jpg

[Luís Henrique]

http://i.imgur.com/m9uyeSc.jpg

So, the Peter Principle was extended to film sequels? The last sequel af any series is going to be a flop, because while it isn't, filmmakers will always plan a next episode?

Makes sence. Indeed, makes more sence than the original Peter Principle...

Luís Henrique

[cyu]

So, the Peter Principle was extended to film sequels? The last sequel af any series is going to be a flop

Luis Henrique knows more about Peters than I do. This I know, because Michelle tells me so :wub:

[jullia]

Heal them the best we can.

[Zoop]

Heal them the best we can.

You can't cure psychopathy/ASPD.

[The Intransigent Faction]

You can't cure psychopathy/ASPD.

...Yet.

Seriously, even if this is true now, it would surely be worth devoting some resources to finding some kind of treatment or even a cure.

That would, of course, take time, resources, and a significant degree of scientific advancement in neurology.

[reviscom1]

There is no such thing as psychopaths. Or more accurately, everyone is a psychopath.

An alarming majority of people seem to be able to cling to this illusion that they are pure and blameless and innocent, and that evil can be safely shut away in a box and stored within these alien entitities called psychpaths, these cackling villains, where it need never touch them or be touched by them.

This is of course ludicrous. In fact the vast majority of humans are able to turn off their empathy if this will bring them an advantage. Anyone who has been screwed over, or has screwed someone over, can tell you that? But the people you screwed over deserved it because they were annoying or stupid, right? That's how a psychopath justifies it to themselves as well.

On a less individual level, anyone who thinks the meat industry is OK is a psychopath. Anyone who believes in any form of animal testing is a psychopath (according to how psychopathy is defined by people who think it exists)

We can indeed say psychopathy is a bourgeois concept. This idea that conventional society is pure and perfect. That there is no rottenness within it. All such rottenness resides only within a few randomly evil individuals who just enjoy being "evil" for the sake of it.

I remember when my Mother first told me about Hitler and Stalin I was shocked: "Why didn't someone just shoot them???" I asked her.

The answer to that is because the people around Hitler and Stalin did not see them as evil. They only ruled with the enthusiastic consent of the people around them. They weren't seen as mad abberations to be got rid of, them on one side, everyone else on the other.

They both came from the same rotten stock as the people they were oppressing.

[Zoop]

^ Psychopaths certainly do exist. They completely lack a conscience. It is impossible for them to feel an ounce of sympathy for anybody.

Non-psychopathic people can act in psychopathic ways, but that doesn't make them a psychopath, as they still have the capacity to feel empathy, sympathy etc.

Psychopathy definitely isn't a bourgeois concept; it is a scientific fact.

It's incredibly absurd to deny that psychopathy exists.

[Klaatu]

When we use the term "psychopath" we think of them as evil, of doing harm to themselves or others.
But is there such a thing as a harmless psychopath? That is, a person who is unbalanced in the head,
but would never do anything bad? Surely these unfortunate minds can be helped to recover?

[Jacob Cliff]

Send them to a gulag located on the remains of Silicon Valley.

[cyu]

these days
eye just imagine
every1
as figments
o
my imagination
.
but niu
r
welcome
2
play
n
dA mangic
kingdom
=D #114seed :worship: :laugh:

[Thirsty Crow]

For fucking fuck's sake cyu. Verbal warning.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

There is no reason to think "psychopathy" is a real problem, or ever was a problem in our world.


Whether or not the thesis of a "warrior gene" is accurate or not, and there are certainly good reasons to be skeptical of it, there certainly is a problem of people who have little or no regard whatsoever for the harm they cause others, outside of the harm it might then bring to them. The idea of a "warrior gene" was offered as a causal story for a problem that people had already come across. Whatever the causal story behind this, there is a problem worthy of solution here. One may think that the solution is better upbringing, removing lead from the water supply, psychiatric care, therapy, isolation or liquidation, but there are certainly people who fit the description.

Of course, this is aside from a critique of psychiatry, and how effectively (under current conditions) it is able to properly diagnose people, and the accuracy of these diagnoses.

It is also aside from whether or not certain corporate subcultures in capitalism reward such personalities, or encourage them to develop. In the corporate world, the problem isn't psychopaths of course but a system that values such a mentality as positive.