water wars are coming

[bcbm]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/water-wars-are-brewing/

[Shinyos]

Fractional distillation, insoluble solid filtration, chemical oxidation, and reverse osmosis. Water treatment plants actually use tedious and potentially wasteful methods to purify water, while the first 3 methods can be done by any individual with a basic understanding of chemistry. The food, and chemical industries run under the assumption that water is cheap for them to use in massive quantities while ignoring the amount that is used and the amount that is actually needed.

[ckaihatsu]

I'd switch sides to whichever one had more water.


= D

[ckaihatsu]

Remember to *stay hydrated* when you go off to battle in the Water Wars -- !


x D


(The more Camelbaks a side has, the greater their chances of winning.)


= D

[Aslan]

A Pakistani-Indian conflict is possible. However I think since they are joining the SCO with India I think it will be a different type of war. Cyber-warfare is a possibility in the future. Drones in the next decades will be used by more nations (China is already manufacturing them. With all these ''strategic'' dams being placed you can see the major possibility of future conflicts. I think places like Africa and central Asia will be the main troubling. As the more and more emigrants to Europe may drastically change Europe. By the 2020s I think separatism in Europe will make it a much different place.

[ckaihatsu]

A Pakistani-Indian conflict is possible. However I think since they are joining the SCO with India I think it will be a different type of war. Cyber-warfare is a possibility in the future. Drones in the next decades will be used by more nations (China is already manufacturing them. With all these ''strategic'' dams being placed you can see the major possibility of future conflicts. I think places like Africa and central Asia will be the main troubling. As the more and more emigrants to Europe may drastically change Europe. By the 2020s I think separatism in Europe will make it a much different place.


'Delete your own IP address or we'll strafe you, remotely, and steal your water.'


= D

[ckaihatsu]

...To be followed shortly thereafter by the 'Sunlight Wars' and the 'Existence Wars'....


x D

[ckaihatsu]

Jesus, who needs fascism when we have *this* kind of liberal bullshittiness -- !

[Aslan]

Ad Hominem Ad Hominem Ad Hominem... Come now ckaihatsu, make you point clear to us ignorants. I hope you enjoyed a good laugh from my oh so liberal bullshitness comments.

Care to explain your point?

[ckaihatsu]

Ad Hominem Ad Hominem Ad Hominem...


'Ad hominem' -- ? How so?

I'm not directing anything at anyone, any individual.





Come now ckaihatsu, make you point clear to us ignorants.


Always glad to clarify -- thanks for the invite.

I just mean to say that the existing capitalist nation-state system is sufficient for any politics and/or conflicts that may happen over *natural resources* -- certainly there's plenty of past world history for the same, anyway, even if those resources *haven't* been scarce in the past.





I hope you enjoyed a good laugh from my oh so liberal bullshitness comments.

Care to explain your point?


I wasn't directing my 'liberal bullshittiness' comment at *your* post, but rather at the whole 'water wars' premise in general.

I addressed your post directly already, meaning to characterize it as a rant (by juxtaposing an operational scenario based on the premise you stated, to show that the logistical conditions you described wouldn't lend themselves to any *realistic* kind of operational conflict).





A Pakistani-Indian conflict is possible. However I think since they are joining the SCO with India I think it will be a different type of war. Cyber-warfare is a possibility in the future. Drones in the next decades will be used by more nations (China is already manufacturing them. With all these ''strategic'' dams being placed you can see the major possibility of future conflicts. I think places like Africa and central Asia will be the main troubling. As the more and more emigrants to Europe may drastically change Europe. By the 2020s I think separatism in Europe will make it a much different place.





'Delete your own IP address or we'll strafe you, remotely, and steal your water.'


= D

[Guardia Rossa]

Ckaihatsu seems happy and posty today.

Well, come to Brazil guys! We have more water than we could ask for.

Remember not to be homosexual, islamic, jew, african(-descendant), poor, hispanic, communist, anarchist, socialist, social-democrat, social-liberal, women or anything else that falls in the "Evil Communist" category.
Otherwise you will possibly be exterminated by our growing nazist movement.

[ckaihatsu]

Ckaihatsu seems happy and posty today.


'Posty' *equals* happy.


= )


= )))))))


(8^\


= )

[Aslan]

Name calling won't do anything for your point ckaihatsu. You do realize that this is a legitimate global concern? To the point where it is now even a concern for American foreign policy makers. My point is that water conflicts could arise from mismanaging of resources. The constant waste of water in the 2/3rd world is a serious problem. I'll use Albania for example, in Albania water is plentiful and to the point of grabbing the attention of Italians. However, they do not conserve and let all that fresh mountain water flow downriver and to cities. Where it becomes disgusting sewer water that needs to be purified. My point is that growing population and constant stress in natural aquifers is becoming a problem to water supplies. I am not a Liberal but they have a point about this.

''.To be followed shortly thereafter by the 'Sunlight Wars' and the 'Existence Wars'.''

That's also a strawman

[ckaihatsu]

Name calling won't do anything for your point ckaihatsu.


Saying that liberals are diverting attention away from the patchwork of inherently *competitive* (capitalist) nation-states is not merely facile 'name-calling'. I'd be much more appreciative and gracious if the reality of international *competition* -- overshadowing possible cooperation -- was emphasized by such liberal and corporate / mainstream reporting in their coverage of environmental crises.

(Recall that the politics of fascism is entirely about contrived political lines -- bullshit, essentially -- standing-in for *real* political issues, even moreso than usual.)





You do realize that this is a legitimate global concern? To the point where it is now even a concern for American foreign policy makers.


I never claimed otherwise. Again:





I just mean to say that the existing capitalist nation-state system is sufficient for any politics and/or conflicts that may happen over *natural resources* -- certainly there's plenty of past world history for the same, anyway, even if those resources *haven't* been scarce in the past.


---





My point is that water conflicts could arise from mismanaging of resources. The constant waste of water in the 2/3rd world is a serious problem. I'll use Albania for example, in Albania water is plentiful and to the point of grabbing the attention of Italians. However, they do not conserve and let all that fresh mountain water flow downriver and to cities. Where it becomes disgusting sewer water that needs to be purified. My point is that growing population and constant stress in natural aquifers is becoming a problem to water supplies. I am not a Liberal but they have a point about this.


I'd be looking to see actual technological policy solutions proffered, over this extended sustained display of anxiety and hand-wringing.


---





...To be followed shortly thereafter by the 'Sunlight Wars' and the 'Existence Wars'....


x D





That's also a strawman


Nope.

Again, it's a juxtaposition of bullshit contrived 'natural resource wars', compared to the *politics* of how such shortfalls in material availability would *actually* play out: through the existing, lacking system of nation-states.

[Aslan]

Saying that liberals are diverting attention away from the patchwork of inherently *competitive* (capitalist) nation-states is not merely facile 'name-calling'. I'd be much more appreciative and gracious if the reality of international *competition* -- overshadowing possible cooperation -- was emphasized by such liberal and corporate / mainstream reporting in their coverage of environmental crises.

(Recall that the politics of fascism is entirely about contrived political lines -- bullshit, essentially -- standing-in for *real* political issues, even moreso than usual.)

I'd be looking to see actual technological policy solutions proffered, over this extended sustained display of anxiety and hand-wringing.

Again, it's a juxtaposition of bullshit contrived 'natural resource wars', compared to the *politics* of how such shortfalls in material availability would *actually* play out: through the existing, lacking system of nation-states.

Ok I see your point.

But to be honest I don't really know what to do. Population control programs sound like something vile but necessary in 1st world countries. But that doesn't help with 3rd world countries. You could see programs like the 1 child policy happen in Nigeria, India, Egypt, etc.

[ckaihatsu]

Ok I see your point.

But to be honest I don't really know what to do. Population control programs sound like something vile but necessary in 1st world countries. But that doesn't help with 3rd world countries. You could see programs like the 1 child policy happen in Nigeria, India, Egypt, etc.


Sorry to be the one to point this out, but you're falling right into the political trap of a 'Malthusian' mindset -- that there are "just too many people in the world for the earth's natural resources".

It's a fallacy, one you may want to look into -- it's been covered here at RevLeft and I won't get into it in this post.

What *I* would be looking for is 'How do we treat water faster, and cheaper?', and 'How do we cheaply desalinate water from the oceans if we need it?'. (Etc.)

[Aslan]

Yes I'm afraid I went down a rabbit hole to authoritarianism with that one.

But all that nonsense aside I still think an international program could help. With your points on treating water faster and cheaper also being very important

[ckaihatsu]

Yes I'm afraid I went down a rabbit hole to authoritarianism with that one.

But all that nonsense aside I still think an international program could help. With your points on treating water faster and cheaper also being very important


Yes, I don't mean to rely on geopolitical or technological means, because either one is substitutionism for actual working class control, meaning a *collective*, comprehensive global solution to outstanding problems regarding resource extraction and use -- something that could *never* be realized under existing conditions of a near-monolithic world empire and lesser, competitive nation-states and even renegade separatist fundamentalist factions / forces.

Even if the best, fully-free methods were discovered tomorrow, it would still be *incremental* compared to what a worldwide *organization* and implementation could accomplish, practically overnight, through workers' revolution.

My concern with anything like this is simply that the hegemonic powers-that-be are just basically standing still, 'killing the clock' as-it-were, while we're seeing our time wasted when we don't have the luxury for such on our side.

[Aslan]

We have to work with what we have. I'd love to see what humanity could do in an international socialist society. We wouldn't be here talking about this in the first place...

[The Intransigent Faction]

I just attended a talk by a self-described "sustainable economist" this week. Even though he argued that pressure was being put on water as a scarce resource for a growing global population, he all but said it was foolish to blame demographics before we've come anywhere near the extent of our ability to use water "efficiently" (i.e. reuse, reduce, recycle, not to mention investment in "green technology").

Even many workers who have been bombarded with capitalist ideology to the point of resignation seemed to find something intuitively wrong with Nestle bottling water and selling it back to residents in B.C. in the midst of a drought. If there's a water war brewing, it should be about resistance to that sort of thing.

The trouble is with taking that aversion to waste to a radical, anticapitalist conclusion. The notion of "efficiency" needs to be decoupled from profitability and addressed purely as a matter of meeting as many people's needs as possible.

[ckaihatsu]

'Waterland' vs. 'Waterstan'


x D

[Futility Personified]

Yes this shit is raw coming at your door, start to scream out loud, wu-tangs back for more, yes the hours four, I told you before, prepare for mic fights and plus the cold war