Why people fear communism

[condor]

People fear communism because they believe it will eliminate competition through state monopolies, and that nobody will live the high life, and that the high life propels people forward...

Is this not the attraction of social democracy, taxing the obscene rich whilst leaving successful artists alone?

[mutualaid]

the high life propels people forward


this is neoliberal propaganda. let's be clear about it, the poor have enough dignity so that we don't have to look admiringly on the rich to consider how we might be better people if we just worked harder - i say this because there is something morally repugnant behind the assumptions in your statement. if you took the time to read up on the subject, you might note that inequality is caused by systemic problems - that, or I guess everyone in the third world is lazy and a few people in the united states and london are humanity's spare role models. you might read some of the stickies in learning before dropping this uninformed nonsense.

[Aslan]

I think of it in these terms. 1% of the world's population get 60% of the pie. While 99% get 40% of the pie. In order to keep this majority of the wealth pie, the 1% must create a propaganda machine of nationalism or just plain old panem et circenses to keep the population pacified. So I say to our opponent, Do you see a problem with our current system? What is the solution to this predicament we have? Where in equality is rampant and only a slow trickle of money is sent to the 3rd world to help billions. Why can't humanity in a classless society have all the pie to themselves? What is stopping us? is it the neo-liberal/neo-conservative global societal tribunal?

The opponent will counter with the claim of ''Communism will make everyone poor'' and ''All the times communism has been attempted it has failed''. However the opponent is ignorant of the fact that this is not communism but mere authoritarian socialism. The poorness we see in Soviet Russia is not their faults, they were a society taken over by a Marxist-Leninist bureaucracy which had their own interests in mind. Communism is not about ''richness'' or ''poorness'' it is about eliminating classes and creating a higher stage of civilization.

[condor]

this is neoliberal propaganda. let's be clear about it, the poor have enough dignity so that we don't have to look admiringly on the rich to consider how we might be better people if we just worked harder - i say this because there is something morally repugnant behind the assumptions in your statement. if you took the time to read up on the subject, you might note that inequality is caused by systemic problems - that, or I guess everyone in the third world is lazy and a few people in the united states and london are humanity's spare role models. you might read some of the stickies in learning before dropping this uninformed nonsense.

People can live the high life without being obscenely rich.

[The Jay]

People can live the high life without being obscenely rich.

I think that the bigger issue is that your assumptions of psychology are flawed and that they are the same assumptions that neoclassical economists hold. Now, that may not have been your intention but that's how it came across.

In terms of "high life" and wealth that gives me pause as to what you think that Communism is.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

People fear communism because they believe it will eliminate competition through state monopolies, and that nobody will live the high life, and that the high life propels people forward...

Is this not the attraction of social democracy, taxing the obscene rich whilst leaving successful artists alone?

Obviously there are no state monopolies in communism, as there is no state in communism, and there are no monopolies in communism anyway, as there is no buying and selling, no market, in communism. Communism does, however eliminate competition, both the competition for higher wages and the competition between various sellers (even if the sellers call themselves "democratic workplaces", "workers' councils" etc.), which is replaced by the scientific planning of production.

But socialism is not universalised poverty, but free access to everything modern society produces, for every member, based on modern, global and objectively socialised industrial production.

Perhaps the prospect of letting certain members of the petite bourgeoisie such as artists retain much of their income is part of the appeal of social-democracy. But appeal to who? Artist types, one would guess. I don't think many workers are worried that, after the revolution, Carrot Top will not get as much money.

[mutualaid]

Carrot Top will not get as much money.

"When they came for Carrot Top, I said nothing."

[Shinyos]

People do not fear what they don't know. They simply don't know what communism is. It is supposed to be the job of communists to educate people about it, instead of posturing and making fun of the working class.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

People do not fear what they don't know. They simply don't know what communism is.

In my experience, many of them do know what communism (or socialism) is, better than many student types. It's just that the idea of communism is no longer widely identified with the progress of humankind among workers. Workers understand, for example, that communism means the abolition of the market, but due to the reactionary period we are living in they think markets are good. This is not helped by many market, circulationist etc. "Marxian" professorial types.


It is supposed to be the job of communists to educate people about it, instead of posturing and making fun of the working class.

I don't think anyone on this thread has made fun of the working class. I've made fun of artists, i.e. a particularly annoying (I think most people don't quite understand just how annoying they are) stratum of the petite bourgeoisie.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Moved from Practice and Propaganda to Learning

[Shinyos]

In my experience, many of them do know what communism (or socialism) is, better than many student types. It's just that the idea of communism is no longer widely identified with the progress of humankind among workers. Workers understand, for example, that communism means the abolition of the market, but due to the reactionary period we are living in they think markets are good. This is not helped by many market, circulationist etc. "Marxian" professorial types.

I have yet to see an actual acknowlegdement or critque of communism from someone who is not already aware of communism, or, an actual ordinary person. Many people are still under the assumption that communism has authortarian leanings.


I don't think anyone on this thread has made fun of the working class.

Not here, but it is the general attitude of most leftists forums I've been to, this one incuded. I would like to think that as a movement, the people who are aware of revolutionary politics should be cooperating with the working class and connect with them on a personal level, but many leftists seem to be too eager to sepearate themselves from them and adapt a patronizing attitude towards those who don't identify with revolutionary politics.

[Aslan]

The reason people who know what communism is and still don't accept it is because they've never read later additions to Marx. For example some members of my family would most likely like Chomsky and Gramsci if they read him. However they do not have enough class consciousness to address their critique. Also many bourgeoisie-sponsored groups (ie right- libertarians and conservatives) spread around lies about communism being a religion or even calling it satanic! They use religion and traditions as a tool to crush revolutionary potential.

[Guardia Rossa]

Move this to OI at once. This guy is a joke.

[Burzhuin]

I had recently a meeting with my fellow workers. We were discussing current political and economical state of the United States and Commonwealth of Massachusetts particularly. And listening to them I understood that more or less they were talking about socialism. When I told them so, they started to deny it. They most popular argument was: socialism is BAD. But I offer to discuss every so called "bad" socialist features. The funny part is when we discussed socialist features one by one they have no objections to ANY OF THEM. I know I did not turn them into socialists, but I force them to THINK. And that what our society needs more than anything else.

[Comrade Jacob]

They fear it because they fear having to do something.

[John Nada]

People fear communism because they believe it will eliminate competition through state monopolies, and that nobody will live the high life, and that the high life propels people forward...Which "people", the vast supermajority who don't care if it's 1 state monopoly or a private duopoly ordering them around, or the small minority who seek to eliminate rival bourgeois competition, have a stake in capitalist monopolies and live the high life a the expense of almost the entire human race? The latter is the bourgeoisie, and should be afraid of communism. Not because its "state monopolies prevent people from live the high life", but because they're in the way of smashing the state, monopolies and everyone living the high life. Capitalism itself is obstructing the progress of humanity. A step up from feudalism, but its usefulness has long expired and it's time to move on to communism
Is this not the attraction of social democracy, taxing the obscene rich whilst leaving successful artists alone?
I don't think most really care about artists having a far tax rate, nor to they expect to either be successful or artists. Social democracy's appeal over communism is it's safe and familiar. It's premise is practical and consistent with the status quo, as opposed to the seemingly utopian communism. It's not threatening to oppressing classes and offers aid to the oppressed masses. It's easier to default back onto the capitalist hear and now, as opposed to something in the future that might not happen. It's one thing to put your feet in the water, but another to sail across the sea.

Social democracy claims to offer the best of both worlds without revolutions and drastic changes that might be a little inconvenient for those busy living paycheck to paycheck. It's like a comprise. Have a better system with all the benefits of revolution, without actually having to make a revolution! 50% off!(terms and conditions may apply) Unfortunately, we now see most those social democratic reforms are being repealed, often by the same social democratic parties who enacted them, to the point they're now to the right of the old right. If religion is an opiate of the masses, reformism is an amphetamine. Promises energy and weight loss without sleeping, diet or exercise, but does not replace any of the latter. Keeps the proletariat on a binge for a election or a few, followed by a crash of reaction.

[Alan OldStudent]

People fear communism because they believe it will eliminate competition through state monopolies, and that nobody will live the high life, and that the high life propels people forward...

Is this not the attraction of social democracy, taxing the obscene rich whilst leaving successful artists alone?

Hello Condor,

I will talk about compensating the artist in another post. I want to discuss what I view as the more interesting aspects of your statement/question.

Your question has three basic underlying assumptions, all of which seem dubious to me.


Competition is a desirable phenomenon.
Capitalism fosters competition.
Communism discourages competition.



For assumption 1: WHY IS COMPETITION GOOD?
Competition, under certain circumstances, can lead to innovation and superior goods. But competition can also lead to monopoly control of our lives. It can lead to wars being fought over control of world marketplaces, natural resources, and international labor markets. Is that good? Maybe competition is good at certain historical junctures and not so good at others. What do you think?
_
For assumption 2: DOES CAPITALISM FOSTER COMPETITION?
Yes, especially when the capitalist system was young. But in the present day, this is not so true. Contemporary capitalism has a tendency to stifle competition with its monopolistic corporate practices, planned obsolescence, and anticompetitive patent and licensing systems, etc. That’s because competition in the marketplace is competition to exercise more and more control and domination. Capitalist competition ultimately struggles to weaken, strangle, and then eliminate competition. As capitalism matures, it tends to discourage competition more than to foster it. Money and wealth become more and more concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. This has been the historic tendency of capitalism from its beginning a few hundred years ago. So paradoxically, capitalist competition develops a strong anticompetitive tendency in its dotage.
_
For assumption 3: WOULD COMMUNISM INHIBIT COMPETITION?
Communism would inhibit the kind of competition of people or corporate entities who struggle to dominate the market, regardless of social or environmental consequences. And, that’s a good thing, don’t you think?. Under communism, production is for human need, not market advantage or private profit. The kind of competition communism might foster would be for finding the best and most environmentally sound techniques to fulfill human needs. In other words, people would compete for social reward of recognition, the gratitude of other humans, not the reward of economic domination. Even today, some people volunteer time in what they consider to be worthwhile contributions to society with no expectation of financial reward. In the transitional phase to full communism, some aspects of the market and market competition may exist, but these need to be kept under control of the workers’ state.

Let me know if anything is unclear. I’ll tackle the question of art in a bit.

***AOS***

[Comrade #138672]

People fear communism because they believe it will eliminate competition through state monopolies, and that nobody will live the high life, and that the high life propels people forward...

Is this not the attraction of social democracy, taxing the obscene rich whilst leaving successful artists alone?
No. Capitalists fear communism because they will lose the source of their wealth. It has nothing to do with competition, which is a joke (in the way capitalists picture it anyway).

When workers oppose communism, they are generally much less passionate about it. And when workers oppose communism, it is not because they care so much about the free market, but because they fear a brutal dictatorship due to indoctrination and poor Stalinist examples.

The difference between the fears should be clear.

[WideAwake]

I think that most people, most average people fear getting into communism, into marxism, into ultra-leftist parties, and movements because the natural instincts of violence, war spirit, agressive behaviour, and rage of humans has been sedated, lowered, and/or even destroyed by education, by morality, religion and legal codes, the media, movies, etc. Because capitalism, and most oligarchic plutocratic political systems of the last 3000 years are a threat to the humans, and the natural reaction to that threat should be to be violent against all the political systems that we've had for the last 3000 to 5000 years. But religion, morality and education has destroyed those natural instincts of violence and agression of humans. And since communism, marxism, socialism is a very radical new political system, and a very radical new philosophy of life a destroyer of old values. And since being a communist, an ultra-leftist would put people at risk of being offended, insulted by the tyranny of the majority, because in a way we live in a tyranny of the majority. So because the majority in America think that capitalism is good and communism is evil. the people who do decide to become communists, must confront, and fight against that majority ruling who would harass the minority of anti-capitalist communists.

So in a way being a communist, while living in a society where the majority thinks that the free markets is the best political system, while communism is evil. Would require communists to become warriors, to be on the defensive and ofensive all the time. And like I said (The natural warrior attitude and instincts of people has been maimed, lowered and destroyed by thousands of years of morality, religion and education), it is normal for most people to be reluctant to choose to join communist parties. And that's why even though communist parties advocate for a paradise of wealth (of 15 dollars per hour), free dental services, free medical care, free university degrees and turning the world into a sort of Disney World paradise. While capitalist parties promote the maintainance of the very low minimum wage of (7 dollars per hour), medical services like surgeries at 20,000 dollars, university degrees at 50,000 dollars, and turning the world into a hell of stress (because of so many bills and taxes and fees) and even though living in communism feels like living in heaven, while living in capitalism feels like living in a hell. People would rather live in this current capitalist hell because it doesn';t require any fighting to support the system of Donald Trump, Hillary and Jeb Bush. But supporting the political system of The Socialist Equality Party, Marxists, Anarchists, Ultra-leftists and Trotskists would indeed require armed struggles, blood, death and war (but because humans today in this 21st Century have almost 0% of warrior spirit (except Middle East insurgents, Islamic State, Hezbollah, Africa etc) but not in all other countries like USA, Mexico, Europe etc.

So I think that's why people hate and fear communism. Because communism requires fighting, while capitalism does not require any war, any armed struggle, any verbal, moral and physical fighting at all






People fear communism because they believe it will eliminate competition through state monopolies, and that nobody will live the high life, and that the high life propels people forward...

Is this not the attraction of social democracy, taxing the obscene rich whilst leaving successful artists alone?

[suneo]

Supposed to be in this country there is no tax system, because the current reality is a lot of misuse of the money raised from the tax sector

[suneo]

Supposed to be in this country there is no tax system, because the current reality is a lot of misuse of the money raised from the tax sector

[olahsenor]

Some fear that because they belong to the bourgeoisie class they will be eliminated. Crap! Fidel Castro was bourgeoisie! The Chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines was bourgeoisie. Landlords.

[Comrade Jacob]

Some fear that because they belong to the bourgeoisie class they will be eliminated. Crap! Fidel Castro was bourgeoisie! The Chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines was bourgeoisie. Landlords.

kek, you can leave any time you want, you know? :lol:

[Comrade Jacob]

People are scared because of generations of anti-communist indoctrination.

[condor]

Isn't the job of communists to lead workers to a planned, democratically elected economy? Why is equality essential to this.

It seems most people believe in meritocracy rather than equality, and this is what puts people off communism.

[condor]

If Marxists spend more time describing what communism would look like, they could attract people to socialism rather than have them repelled from capitalism.