Best ways to convey Marxist ideas

[ComradeKyle]

Lately in my school many of my friends and other students are questioning me about my beliefs and support for communism. They keep saying things like "everyone would just stop working" and I never have a great response so it basically just makes me and my beliefs look bad. Basically what I'm asking for is first of all, where should I look to get a deeper understanding of Marxism and communism? Secondly, what is the best way to get my views acrossed without seeming too aggressive or ignorant? I ask because it feels like no one at my school actually understands communism, yet they all just think negatively of it, and I really want to put a group together to discuss communism/Marxism and possibly get active in the community. Thanks in advance! :)

[ckaihatsu]

The best argument against the retort that 'Everyone would just stop working' is to point out that there's a difference between *participation* and *productivity*.

The *worldview* implied by 'Everyone would just stop working' is that there's a simple, 1-to-1 ratio of work input, to productive output -- what's further implied is that all social productivity would come to a complete, apocalyptic halt because as people successively use their newfound freedom to stop working (at critical life-sustaining roles), productivity (for the products of sustaining life and livelihoods) would likewise precipitously decline, because, in this mindset, 'less work done' = 'less output for all'.

In more *complex* terms we have to look at what work effort is currently done *for*, and where the benefits of machine-leveraged labor actually *go*...(!)

There's much labor effort today that simply goes to 'overhead', for the maintenance of the capitalist exchange-values system -- all finance, military, police, state administration, state services, etc., are not 'productive' in *material* terms, meaning for the production of use-values that any given person can partake of.

We also have to look at where machine-leveraged productivity gains *go*: If we take a one-person's-labor-for-one-year-to-support-that-same-person-for-one-year as a 'baseline', then any material productivity by that person *above* that baseline would go towards a *new* 'baseline', that of *reproducing* that worker's labor-potential, into the future -- bearing and raising future generations of laborers, in other words.

So, with this perpetuation-indefinitely-into-the-future baseline in mind, we then have to ask 'Where do any *additional* productivity gains go?', because obviously the world is far exceeding this baseline of mere labor subsistence and perpetuation.

If the world abolished private property (of the means of mass production), and most people decided to stop working, where would the productivity gains go then -- ? Certainly not a pure 100% of the world's people would stop working, so of those who *did* decide to continue working, for however-many hours per year, would *their* bulk material productivity be sufficient to provide for 100% of everyone in the world, or wouldn't it -- ?

As a sidenote, I'll also point out that the 'Everyone would just stop working' formulation is *too individualistic* -- certainly people would cooperate in groups and produce what they needed to, given more-hospitable conditions for such production (communism).

On a finer, more-internal treatment, I'll note that there *could* potentially be post-capitalist issues with an emergent imbalance between the available labor supply for more-desirable roles (like not-working or being a 'rock star'), and less-desirable work roles (like mining or textiles), if they still existed despite widescale automation of all undesirable roles.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2849838&postcount=205

[WideAwake]

This is a good way to convince people about the need to destroy, to overthrow the capitalist system and replace it with a worker's socialist state, (a dictatorship of the workers and poor US citizens, a dictatorship of the oppressed leftists against right-wing oppressors in USA):

Tell them that USA is a capitalist nation, and that in USA the only people who reach self-realization (physically, mentally, emotionally and economically) are Tom Cruise, George Clooney, Kim Kardashian, Sophia Vergara, Donald Trump, Obama, Bush, the other members of the rich class. And the upper layer of the middle classes (Doctors, lawyers and high-wage workers like the high-rank workers of banks, contractors like Edward Snowden etc) But both (upper class and upper-middle classes are about 25% of the population of the USA)

And then there is the real USA, the other USA (A USA that is not shown in most Hollywood movies, specially not at all in the middle class bourgeoise movies like films with Adam Sandler, Ben Affleck, Robert Deniro, Tom Cruise, Robert Downey Jr. etc), the people we see every day at Wal Marts, shopping at Wal Marts, working at Wal Marts, working at Kroger supermarkets, Publix supermarkets. Young teens (who will never be able to join a university to study how to be a pilot, a doctor, lawyer, business speciallist, architect etc) and who are totally banned and barred from being somebody in life, an important person in life, from reaching a great physical image, a great mind and a great well-being of soul. Because they are forced to push supermarkets shopping carts at Wal Marts, Kroger, or delivering pizzas. They wiil never be able to reach any level of happiness at all (just tell them to look at their faces, because one doesn't need to be Freud, Carl Jung and Alfred Adler and Tonny Robbins psycho-analyst, a face-reader, a body language reader to see with their own eyes how sad are the majority of americans (70% to 80% of the population of USA) because the type of capitalism we have in USA and many countries as well, only benefits about 20% to 30% of the population. (those are the only ones who are allowed to live a happy full life physically, mentally and spiritually)

But like i said the other 70% of the population of America lives a hell on earth. And only a marxist government, a dictatorship of the proletariat, a dictatorship of the working class, of worker's government, with an 100% marxist political and economic system will be able to provide wealth, happiness and self-realization physically, mentally and spiritually for the 70% of the population of USA who right now lives a hell on earth






Lately in my school many of my friends and other students are questioning me about my beliefs and support for communism. They keep saying things like "everyone would just stop working" and I never have a great response so it basically just makes me and my beliefs look bad. Basically what I'm asking for is first of all, where should I look to get a deeper understanding of Marxism and communism? Secondly, what is the best way to get my views acrossed without seeming too aggressive or ignorant? I ask because it feels like no one at my school actually understands communism, yet they all just think negatively of it, and I really want to put a group together to discuss communism/Marxism and possibly get active in the community. Thanks in advance! :)

[ckaihatsu]

Tell them that USA is a capitalist nation, and that in USA the only people who reach self-realization (physically, mentally, emotionally and economically) are Tom Cruise, George Clooney, Kim Kardashian, Sophia Vergara, Donald Trump, Obama, Bush, the other members of the rich class.


https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/wilde-oscar/soul-man/


Oscar Wilde 1891

The Soul of Man under Socialism





The chief advantage that would result from the establishment of Socialism is, undoubtedly, the fact that Socialism would relieve us from that sordid necessity of living for others which, in the present condition of things, presses so hardly upon almost everybody. In fact, scarcely anyone at all escapes.

Now and then, in the course of the century, a great man of science, like Darwin; a great poet, like Keats; a fine critical spirit, like M. Renan; a supreme artist, like Flaubert, has been able to isolate himself, to keep himself out of reach of the clamorous claims of others, to stand ‘under the shelter of the wall,’ as Plato puts it, and so to realise the perfection of what was in him, to his own incomparable gain, and to the incomparable and lasting gain of the whole world. These, however, are exceptions. [...]

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Just flip all arguments on their head. If everyone gets paid shit wages doing back breaking, pointless work, why go back each morning? Capitalism works better in theory, No True Scotsmen cappie argument, point out atrocities, etc that's what I do.

"Oh Communism works better in theory? What about (mention worker suicide in Asia, AIDs pill artificial price hike, slavery, child labor, etc), oh, that wasn't "true capitalism"? So it's never been tried? So it works better in theory? It's all "big government with their patents and regulations"? What about Somalia? It's a decentralized, libertarian society, why isn't the world lauding it as the utopia it is?"

See what I mean?

[The Idler]

Would offering to share this with your friends questioning you about communism be of any help?
http://redquillbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/The-Communist-Manifesto-Illustrated-Chapter-One-English.jpg

[odysseus]

I've found people respond best when I focus on making worker cooperatives the model in how production is organized. Or, as I actually put it, if we made it so worker cooperatives were the norm in how businesses were ran, made it so all the workers made up the 'board of directors', and describe how it already makes life better for the people already doing that and that its been growing faster every year. Throw in that it gets rid of the employer/employee relationship that makes up capitalism, like how Slaveowner/slave relationship makes up slavery.

rdwolff.com is where I was pulled into the Marxism and the anti-capitalism and the communism/socialism. Richard Wolff is an ex-Yale professor, and went to school at Harvard, Yale, Stanford. Hopefully needless to say, he is very, very critical of Ivy league schools and the inequalities they create.

But, ignoring the perspective theories on how to move forward, he does give amazingly thorough and "intensive", as he calls it, 'online classes' about Marx and his work.

rdwolff.com/classes
I'll put them in order here. On the site, it just starts from the bottom of the page up.
rdwolff.com/content/marxian-economics-intensive-introduction
rdwolff.com/content/economic-crisis-and-globalization
rdwolff.com/content/marxian-class-analysis-theory-and-practice-online-course
rdwolff.com/content/advanced-applied-marxian-economics-intensive-course
rdwolff.com/content/marxian-economics-umass-amherst

[Comrade Jacob]

Not quite theory but history, you could use it in theory tho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2WIpsDmZFU

Get wid da youth

[Comrade Jacob]

Memes are hip and trendy, we should do it even more.

[Burzhuin]

Lately in my school many of my friends and other students are questioning me about my beliefs and support for communism. They keep saying things like "everyone would just stop working" and I never have a great response so it basically just makes me and my beliefs look bad. Basically what I'm asking for is first of all, where should I look to get a deeper understanding of Marxism and communism? Secondly, what is the best way to get my views acrossed without seeming too aggressive or ignorant? I ask because it feels like no one at my school actually understands communism, yet they all just think negatively of it, and I really want to put a group together to discuss communism/Marxism and possibly get active in the community. Thanks in advance! :)
I do not have a lot of time. But I would advise you to think along this line: Why anyone would stop working for HIM/HERSELF? The point is simple: Socialism is lower step to communism means that the factories belong to people who work on them.
Another advise if I may, find somebody who believes are similar to yours and let him play "devil advocate" role. And do not be discourage if you do not know all the answers. Nobody does. But looking for them will expand your horizons.

[ckaihatsu]

http://redquillbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/The-Communist-Manifesto-Illustrated-Chapter-One-English.jpg


All comrades have to illustrate The Communist Manifesto. Oh, you didn't know -- ?


x D

[RedMaterialist]

Lately in my school many of my friends and other students are questioning me about my beliefs and support for communism. They keep saying things like "everyone would just stop working" and I never have a great response

Marx said (somewhere) that we already have an entire class of people who don't work. Today we call it the .01%.

[Comrade #138672]

Everyone would stop working? Wow. Never thought about that before. Damn. Your friends are smart.

And I agree, cartoons can be awesome to explain simple ideas about socialism/science/whatever.

[olahsenor]

I having been suggesting this for such a long time. I don't know if it was implemented. Out there in public, there are inconsiderate people who would dare hurt us if we talk of socialism. A certain Joe Hill whose death we shall celebrate on November 17 was wrongfully convicted of a crime he did not commit because he was a Left artist. Be vigilant. Make use of CPUSA's probono lawyers if somebody assaults or slanders us in the public to make sure that we will not only be vindicated but also dispensed with justice.