128+ leftists lose lives in Ankara terror attack

[Sasha]

this morning a trade union/kurdish demonstration in the turkish capital of Ankara against Erdogans war against the kurds was attacked by a twin sucide (?) attack, by last count 128 people lost their lives.
the riot police (again) teargassed the scene and blocked ambulances from taking the wounded until they where beaten away by enraged demonstrators.
turkish media are blocked from reporting on the attack since this evening, thousands demonstrated against the AKP this evening.
the PKK called for a "defence only" ceasefire until the november 1st ellections in the aftermath, leftist tradeunions called for a 2 day national strike during the days of mourning.

[Aslan]

this is an outrage. The turkish government should be put in a international tribunal for their crimes against the Kurdish people. My condolences to the the hurt and their families, and I will never stop saying that Erdogan and criminal friends deserve to be put in prison.

[khad]

I bet you by this time next week Erdogan have his entire constituency convinced that the PKK bombed the rally.

Cuz reasons.

[mesut]

I bet you by this time next week Erdogan have his entire constituency convinced that the PKK bombed the rally.

Cuz reasons.
Haha, what do you bet with me?

[Antiochus]

But who really was it?

MY money would be on ISIS cells. SOme of you may say the Turkish gov. (and they have links to ISIS which even U.S intelligence verified), but the sheer scale of this, in Ankara too, which is eyed by the entire world, leads me to believe it was ISIS or a faction like that, not Erdogan. Though it could also be a faction within the Turkish gov/AK party that is acting independently from Erdogan.

[Qayin]

ISIS cells that are supported/or at least given a free pass by the Turkish State.

Erdogan will hang comrades.

[hexaune]

I bet you by this time next week Erdogan have his entire constituency convinced that the PKK bombed the rally.

Cuz reasons.

There was an article in the guardian yesterday iirc in which Erdogan is claiming its either ISIS or leftist terrorists, but I can't find it today.

e2a: Titles changed and it was the pm not erdogan that made the claim, its still in the content: ''Scuffles break out in Turkish capital as PM suggests Isis, Kurdish or far-left militants could be behind deadliest attack in Turkish history''

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/11/turkey-bomb-blasts-ankara-mourning-scores-killed

Not too sure why far-left militants or kurdish millitants would bomb a demo organised by HDP, labour unions, left wing groups... !

[khad]

There was an article in the guardian yesterday iirc in which Erdogan is claiming its either ISIS or leftist terrorists, but I can't find it today.

e2a: Titles changed and it was the pm not erdogan that made the claim, its still in the content: ''Scuffles break out in Turkish capital as PM suggests Isis, Kurdish or far-left militants could be behind deadliest attack in Turkish history''

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/11/turkey-bomb-blasts-ankara-mourning-scores-killed

Not too sure why far-left militants or kurdish millitants would bomb a demo organised by HDP, labour unions, left wing groups... !
Because it's fucking Erdogan. He could strangle a baby on live TV, and his stupid supporters will believe that PKK terrorists made him do it.

[hexaune]

Khad, how has all of this affected the HDP in the polls? Are they likely to get above the 10% threshold again in November's elections and if they do, do you think we will have the same situation as last time where no one can govern out right or form a workable coalition or can you see a way around that?

[Sasha]

Khad, how has all of this affected the HDP in the polls? Are they likely to get above the 10% threshold again in November's elections and if they do, do you think we will have the same situation as last time where no one can govern out right or form a workable coalition or can you see a way around that?

it very unlikely the HDP will be pushed below the treshold, some poll (even before the latest attack) give a rise to HDP and MHP (ultranationalists) and a loss for the AKP, other polls give a small win to AKP and a small loss to HDP and MHP but not big enough to make a significant impact on the result.

[Comrade Jacob]

Truly horrific and sad. The Turkish government are to the Kurds what Israel is to the Palestinians.

[hexaune]

it very unlikely the HDP will be pushed below the treshold, some poll (even before the latest attack) give a rise to HDP and MHP (ultranationalists) and a loss for the AKP, other polls give a small win to AKP and a small loss to HDP and MHP but not big enough to make a significant impact on the result.

What do you think Erdogan will do then after the next election? Presumably it will be just as impossible to form a working coalition as last time if there is a similar result.

[Sasha]

Honestly I dont know, maybe strike a coalition with the mhp, maybe a suspension of democracy though I d have no idea if the army will accept. Maybe he wil try to declare the HDP unconstitutional.

[Aslan]

This most likely has nothing to do with ISIL. Remember that to ISIL, Turkey is just an evil secular nation. Turkey has been fighting off these guys for years now and I don't think Turkey would help them. My money instead is on the Grey Wolves. These motherfuckers are zealous anti-communists and anti-kurds. They've worked with the Turkish government in the past and are a known paramilitary organization.
They also are about 1.6 million in size and aren't religious fundamentalist.

Grey wolves: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Wolves_(organization)

[Sasha]

dont think the greywolves use suicide bombers, nah, my money is on ISIS or kurdish hezbollah but like the HDP co-chairman said
"I am talking as someone who lost almost 150 friends within recent months in attacks like this.
Damn your ballot boxes. Damn your greed for power. Damn your palace! We would not exchange a finger nail of our people for the trillions you have stolen. We are the ones who are dying. We, the children of this poor nation, are the one ones who die. Not you! So, it is not us who have to give an account. It is you! You are governing this country. You are responsible for every death. It's Ankara, the capital of Turkey. If a bird flies in the air, the state knows about it."



the MİT (turkish intelligence) has to have had knowledge and let it happen...

[Aslan]

The grey wolves have helped in the Chechen war, Azerbaijani coup-de-estat, and Bangkok bombing. They have since their inspection been anti-leftist and anti-Kurdish. Their founder was a ex-colonel in the Turkish army.
It isn't far-fetched for the conservative Turkish government to be tied to the nearly 1.6 million member strong organization.
Besides, Turkish intelligence has flushing ISIL as a top priority for quite a while now, I don't think they are the perpetrators of this.

[N. Senada]

I spent a week in Izmir two years ago to the annual summer camp of Devrimsci Isci Partisi (Workers Revolutionary Party)
When i saw the video of the explosion just some meters far from the large DIP banner i really trembled.
Tomorrow for the political consideration, now i'm just gettin worried.

[Sasha]

The grey wolves have helped in the Chechen war, Azerbaijani coup-de-estat, and Bangkok bombing. They have since their inspection been anti-leftist and anti-Kurdish. Their founder was a ex-colonel in the Turkish army.
It isn't far-fetched for the conservative Turkish government to be tied to the nearly 1.6 million member strong organization.
Besides, Turkish intelligence has flushing ISIL as a top priority for quite a while now, I don't think they are the perpetrators of this.

Grey wolves are fiercly secular kemalists, AKP is islamist, there are way more ties between the AKP and islamist gangs than with the greywolves. Heck the MIT runs a whole islamist group in kurdistan (kurdish Hezbollah) plus is in deep contact for supplies and coordination with many Syrian islamist groups. Greywolves dont work for erdoghan, they hate his guts for breaking the power of the military. You are pointing the wrong way mate.

[The Feral Underclass]

Sorry if someone has said this already; I've not had chance to read through the whole thread.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a Turkish state sponsored ISIS attack. Basically, it feels like the Turkish state sub-contracted this to ISIS, or at the very least had intel about it happening.

[N. Senada]

Erdogan and the AKP government has 100% surely an objective responsability.
It would be no surprise if they even are involved subjectively in the attack.

[Sasha]

good general write up; https://news.vice.com/article/anger-grows-at-turkish-government-after-worst-terror-attack-in-countrys-history?utm_source=vicenewsfb

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Besides, Turkish intelligence has flushing ISIL as a top priority for quite a while now, I don't think they are the perpetrators of this.

You mean when they bomb random supposed Kurdish targets and say it's "totally IS"? That's about as much as they have fighting IS as a priority. Cover for convenient self-interest bomb raids.

[khad]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRIHFpwWcAApfDI.jpg

Turkish Media: "Ankara bombings were ordered by Assad & carried out by PKK" :rolleyes:

[Sasha]

http://www.kurdishinfo.com/police-knew-about-the-suicide-bombers-two-months-ago

[John Nada]

Grey wolves are fiercly secular kemalists, AKP is islamist, there are way more ties between the AKP and islamist gangs than with the greywolves. Heck the MIT runs a whole islamist group in kurdistan (kurdish Hezbollah) plus is in deep contact for supplies and coordination with many Syrian islamist groups. Greywolves dont work for erdoghan, they hate his guts for breaking the power of the military. You are pointing the wrong way mate.A lot of the AKP's members were from the Islamist National Salvation Party. The Grey Wolves have teamed up with these Islamists against leftist, Alevis activists and Kurdish activists in the past. In the 70s supporters of the Islamist party the National Salvation Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Salvation_Party)(MSP,successor to the National Order Party(NMP) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Order_Party)]and the Nationalist Movement Party(MHP) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_Movement_Party), were both in the National Front. There were battles in the streets between leftists and Kurdish activists on one side and the Grey Wolves and Islamist on the other. These rightists were trained and backed by the US and NATO as part of Operation Gladio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio) as "counter-guerrillas". This was during the wave of violence against leftists in the late 70s, like the Taksim Square Massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taksim_Square_massacre). By 1980 the military used the political violence as justification for a coup to "restore order"(and implement neoliberalism). Similar happened in the 1971 coup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat).

A lot of the leftist groups in Turkey and northern Kurdistan cut their teeth in street battles with these rightists, including the PKK. And a lot of the rightist got spots in high places.
Sorry if someone has said this already; I've not had chance to read through the whole thread.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was a Turkish state sponsored ISIS attack. Basically, it feels like the Turkish state sub-contracted this to ISIS, or at the very least had intel about it happening.Won't put it past them. Hell, wasn't there a leak that the Turkish military discussed giving Al-Nursa sarin, and staging an attack on Turkish troops to justify invading Syria?

The Turkish state has long done false-flags and collaborated with vicious reactionaries against leftists and Kurds. The Turkish state did a lot of false-flag ops in its counterinsurgency(with US and UK backing, why do they keep creating monsters wherever they go?), committing massacres and pretending to be the PKK or Communist rebels to pin the blame on them. The state's been the worse perpetrator of terrorism for decades, wiping out whole villages. When people in Turkey and Kurdistan say the state's in on this shit, they got past experiences as a reasonable basis. Looking at history it wouldn't surprise me if this is a coup in the making, maybe a "self-coup" by Erdogan.

[Sasha]

Good write up by roarmag; http://roarmag.org/2015/10/ankara-bomb-attack-fuels-anger-against-akp-government/

They make a good point why letting this attack happen makes sense for the AKP even if earlier attacks actually boosted HDP support.
They likely knew the PKK was about to declare a ceasefire and that could be even worse, they probably hoped that this horrific attack would make the pkk reconsider.

[John Nada]

One of the suicide bombers was a brother of the Suruc bomber, the other's father warned authorities long before the massacre that his son was working with Islamists in syria and was dangerous. He was just questioned and released. http://kurdishquestion.com/index.php/kurdistan/north-kurdistan/father-of-suspected-ankara-bomber-i-reported-my-son-to-authorities-countless-times.html

Nearly a thousand leftists get locked up, yet they let reactionary Islamists go. One who's brother already murdered dozens of people in Suruc. Strange.

[hexaune]

Acording the the turkish PM ISIS and PKK worked together for this bombing, you can't make this shit up!


Davutoğlu told the TGRT news channel that both Isis militants and members of the PKK were involved in the attack but he did not explain how Turkish investigators linked the two groups, who are fighting each other in Iraq and Syria.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/15/ankara-bombings-10-more-people-arrested-suspected-isis-pkk-links