Trying to be a little more revolutionary

[VCrakeV]

So, I don't expect to start a revolution. However, I'd like to at least think I'm doing my part. Any idea of what I could do? I don't have much education in communism and socialism (and what I do know is informal), so I can't start and lead a group, be it on social media or in person.

Is it worth looking into communist parties? You know, the small ones that no one hears of. What about groups; do you think there are organized groups for different areas?

[BIXX]

I'd recommend sitting tight and enjoying your life. Maybe if you're into hypermasculine posturing go work out and whatnot to prepare for the trenches but if you're a well adjusted human being just have fun with your life don't fuck it up too bad.

[Quail]

You could look into local groups that help make life more bearable under capitalism, or even consider starting your own. I don't know what there is in your area, but I would suggest looking into local campaigns rather than communist parties - just stuff that makes a tangible difference to people's lives. You could also get involved with a union like the IWW, or if you're unemployed you could look into starting a claimants' union (to support each other when your benefits inevitably get cut off!). There are loads of things you can get involved in, and contrary to what the above poster claims, they're not a waste of time.

[cyu]

Gotta love Quail :wub:

Anyway, even if you were a shut-in or can't get around much, there are things you can do simply with an internet connection, commitment, and your own judgement.

1. Go to as many places where news is posted as you can.
2. Any article, comment, or idea you like, simply repost it to as many of the other news sites as you can.
3. Spend as much time as you can doing that without burning out.

You don't need a lot of theoretical education (that will come just by doing this a lot) - all you need is your personal opinions - you are the judge of what news and ideas you like, and what you don't like - and you spread only the stuff you like. As long as you like generally the same things we like, then you are only helping - even if you don't like the exact same things we like, maybe we should like what you like, and you are doing the rest of us (and society) a favor by promoting the politics you like. The more people that do what you do, the more those ideas start resonating in society, and before you know it, you've helped create a critical mass of would-be revolutionaries. You know what happens after that :grin:

[BIXX]

they're not a waste of time.

Sorry, that's not my claim. My claim is that leftists fetishize doing things for the sake of doing things. Which is frankly dumb. If you wanna participate in fmreformist campaigns or whatever be my guest but folks should stop pretending that it's for communism or whatever or has anything to do with the revolution.

[Quail]

Campaigns aren't inherently reformist though. For example, supporting immigrants/asylum seekers has a real impact on actual human beings... Or providing food and shelter, organising childcare, running a community centre... All of these things do actual good things for human beings who are suffering under capitalism, and show by example that there is another way of organising a society.

[Ele'ill]

escalate towards nothing

[BIXX]

Campaigns aren't inherently reformist though. For example, supporting immigrants/asylum seekers has a real impact on actual human beings... Or providing food and shelter, organising childcare, running a community centre... All of these things do actual good things for human beings who are suffering under capitalism, and show by example that there is another way of organising a society.

Or these formulations are just radicals coming up with the new exciting way to ease tensions within capital

[Sewer Socialist]

I think there are at least a couple comrades here from Newfoundland & Nova Scotia, maybe they are more familiar with the active groups in the area? The Garbage Disposal Unit is one, I forget who the other one was.

I'd say getting some experience with an existing group is useful, and if you don't like it, remember what you dislike, try to find a better group, then maybe think about starting a new one if necessary, possibly with like minded people you've met.

[#FF0000]

According to my friends in Newfoundland, it's really hard to get involved in things out there. The IWW's a big presence in Canada now though, or so I hear. Maybe contact them and see if there's anything going on near you.


Or these formulations are just radicals coming up with the new exciting way to ease tensions within capital

gotta build a movement, and these things are part of that. people suffering doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna overthrow capitalism.

[Bala Perdida]

Nova Scotia. Try joining the New Scotland Front. It's a dangerous game though. All worth it for a free sovereign socialist Nova Scotia.

[Bala Perdida]

According to my friends in Newfoundland, it's really hard to get involved in things out there. The IWW's a big presence in Canada now though, or so I hear. Maybe contact them and see if there's anything going on near you.



gotta build a movement, and these things are part of that. people suffering doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna overthrow capitalism.

That's not revolutionary though. That's not gonna overthrow the existing regime and replace it. It's not bad, but it's not revolutionary.

[#FF0000]

That's not revolutionary though. That's not gonna overthrow the existing regime and replace it. It's not bad, but it's not revolutionary.

1) I think it's ridiculous to talk about anything being "revolutionary" right now, when the working class is completely disorganized and unable to defend itself in any capacity.
2) By your very definition, what would be revolutionary?
3) Building working-class organizations and parties is a necessary part of building the movement to overthrow capitalism. No one's talking about doing charity work for its own sake but these kinds of mutual aid and support projects are necessary.

[Bala Perdida]

1) I think it's ridiculous to talk about anything being "revolutionary" right now, when the working class is completely disorganized and unable to defend itself in any capacity.
2) By your very definition, what would be revolutionary?
3) Building working-class organizations and parties is a necessary part of building the movement to overthrow capitalism. No one's talking about doing charity work for its own sake but these kinds of mutual aid and support projects are necessary.
The question asked is what can they do to be revolutionary. Not hold revolutionary ideas, but actually carry out revolutionary actions. There's a reason most radicals aren't revolutionaries. It's a dangerous role.

Something revolutionary would basically be an action carried out (violent, I can't imagine it not being violent tbh) with intention of overthrowing a regime and replacing it with something else.

From what I see the post that lead to this was suggesting a mutual aid program to demonstrate alternatives to capitalism. Even though it's not really doing that, and it's not revolutionary. I don't disagree with doing that, I've been trying to do that myself. I just don't think that's something a radical can consider agitating. Also I don't find organizations and parties effective at overthrowing capitalism.

[BIXX]

gotta build a movement

I think this is the fundamental issue- I don't think a movement of any sort is going to lead to a revolutionary situation (setting aside all my obvious reservations about revolutions themselves). I think that a revolution is far more likely to stem from generalized flight from capital and more situations of workplace sabotage and generalized sabotage of the systems in our lives. But a movement I think is the least likely way a revolution is going to happen.

[#FF0000]

Something revolutionary would basically be an action carried out (violent, I can't imagine it not being violent tbh) with intention of overthrowing a regime and replacing it with something else.

Sounds like we agree more or less. I think it's silly to call anything "revolutionary" right now though unless it's mean in a long-view "we advocate revolution when it's possible" kind of way (which still sounds ridiculous). Even ppl who wanna take up guns and run around in the woods aren't "revolutionary". They're "delusional" and "suicidal".


I think this is the fundamental issue- I don't think a movement of any sort is going to lead to a revolutionary situation (setting aside all my obvious reservations about revolutions themselves). I think that a revolution is far more likely to stem from generalized flight from capital and more situations of workplace sabotage and generalized sabotage of the systems in our lives. But a movement I think is the least likely way a revolution is going to happen.

I can actually probably meet you halfway here cuz I don't think the movement is going to lead to a revolutionary situation. "Revolutionary situations" happen when the old order falters and risks losing control. I think that can happen for a lot of reasons, most of which are outside of our control or the control of a "movement". A movement is necessary to make anything of that "revolutionary situation", though. If a working-class movement doesn't exist to take power, something else, something worse, will.

[BIXX]

I can actually probably meet you halfway here cuz I don't think the movement is going to lead to a revolutionary situation. "Revolutionary situations" happen when the old order falters and risks losing control. I think that can happen for a lot of reasons, most of which are outside of our control or the control of a "movement". A movement is necessary to make anything of that "revolutionary situation", though. If a working-class movement doesn't exist to take power, something else, something worse, will.

When you say take power, do you mean take over the function of society? Much like how Marxists describe the withering Way of the state (society gradually taking over the functions of the bourgeois state) but in a more generalized sense?

[#FF0000]

When you say take power, do you mean take over the function of society? Much like how Marxists describe the withering Way of the state (society gradually taking over the functions of the bourgeois state) but in a more generalized sense?

yep

[cyu]

Armed propaganda (as coined by someone in another thread).

I think revolutionary activity clicked for me when I first heard the phrase "have gun, will travel" - it was like, what does a gun give you? In the abstract, it is power - the power to do whatever you want. The real question is, if you could do whatever you want, what would you do? What if you were "The Law" all in yourself? What if instead of waiting for government officials to come around and enforce new policies, you were the one to come around and enforce new policies?

You could stand in front of politicians trying to give a speech. If they try to use the microphone, you say "F**k you, what makes you so special that you get all the microphone time?" Any command they give, you countermand it. Haters might think there's no point in that, because the minions won't listen. But if you had enough revolutionaries with you, you could enforce your orders just like them. You could "assume command", rule by decree or martial law. (Of course, if you were an anarchist, you wouldn't do exactly that, but this is just a list of possibilities.) You announce your own rules of engagement for any capitalists that dare to attack you.

So what kind of policies do you implement (backed by your armed rules of engagement)? It would basically be direct action ("civil" disobedience) implementing all the "laws" you would implement if the revolution already succeeded - employee control of workplaces, abolishing poverty, community control of the mass media. And you use your armed control of the local mass media to spread the revolution to neighboring areas, and show them how they can take over their own media outlets.

[BIXX]

yep

What functions then are you thinking ought to be maintained and what would be the force that maintains them?

[Guardia Rossa]

Make propaganda (Like, graffiti...), distribute books and pamphlets, organize the socialists you know and teach people what is socialism and what it stands for.

It doesn't matter they believe it to be an utopia if you can teach them what we stand for. As #FF0000 said, the system needs to enter a deep crisis in order for we to have an actual chance and people that aren't afraid of socialism because of anti-socialist propaganda may actually join us, even if they aren't marxists or anarchists.