Military Training

[Comrade Njordr]

I'm planning on joining the Canadian reserves in exchange for training and for a source of income. Having combat experience will make me a valuable comrade once I am able to aid in liberation movements and such. I despise the military, yet I see no other viable alternative.

[RedWorker]

1) Stop seeing yourself as in the role of an external liberator. The people liberate themselves.
2) You don't need military training. Only the most crude, purely violent understanding of revolution suggests this.
3) You should not join the bourgeois military for any reason. I believe this is a basic principle.
4) There are clearly several alternatives for sources of income and even 'training'.

[Comrade Njordr]

I'll leave once I'm satisfied. But during a revolution, I wouldn't want a civilian with no experience with weaponry fighting beside me, they are a liability. And I don't see myself as an external liberator! I want to be able to reinforce the people and help train them if necessary! Are you suggesting I ignore them and allow them to be repressed by the enemy?

Edit: liberation movements are violent! Not everything is peaceful, mate! Also having inside knowledge on how the bourgeois military operates is useful.

[Comrade Njordr]

I'm not going to war for them and as I mentioned previously, there are no other options for me besides this due to my age and location.

[Cliff Paul]

I'm planning on joining the Canadian reserves in exchange for training and for a source of income. Having combat experience will make me a valuable comrade once I am able to aid in liberation movements and such. I despise the military, yet I see no other viable alternative.

I can see if you are doing it for a source of income, but you don't need the training or experience. There's not going to be an armed insurrection against the Canadian government anytime soon.

[Guardia Rossa]

I can see if you are doing it for a source of income, but you don't need the training or experience. There's not going to be an armed insurrection against the Canadian government anytime soon.

He still can be usefull in other parts of the world, if he so wishes. I would be at Chiapas right now, If I only had the money, equipment and training... And had no one to answer to/take care of...

[BIXX]

I'm planning on joining the Canadian reserves in exchange for training and for a source of income. Having combat experience will make me a valuable comrade once I am able to aid in liberation movements and such. I despise the military, yet I see no other viable alternative.

That's a really bad idea. I can't help but recommend against this. If you're going to do it then you're going to do it, but I can tell you now it's a mistake.

[Comrade Njordr]

That's a really bad idea. I can't help but recommend against this. If you're going to do it then you're going to do it, but I can tell you now it's a mistake.
I'm not planning on joining the regular army. I want to avoid going to war for them.

[Armchair Partisan]

I'm planning on joining the Canadian reserves in exchange for training and for a source of income. Having combat experience will make me a valuable comrade once I am able to aid in liberation movements and such. I despise the military, yet I see no other viable alternative.

Combat experience? Training with a gun is not combat experience, and you can do it at home without some reactionary asshole yelling at you trying to dehumanize you. Doing stupid military drills only serve the same purpose (dehumanization) and are of little use in combat. If you're not in some sort of special forces, or at least a professional soldier, I think all you learn is how to shoot a gun, how to make your bed and how to blindly take orders from your superior officer (again, the only one of these skills that you can use is the one you can learn at home). While I haven't actually served in a military myself, and I would emigrate if I were forced to (for a capitalist country, anyway), I'm pretty sure all that is accurate.

If you actually want to be thrown into a meatgrinder for the benefit of your imperialist overlords, well, first of all, it's not worth it, and secondly, I don't think you're going to have great opportunities for that in the Canadian reserves.

Here is a viable alternative: don't. How about that? You're not going to be that much more helpful with a stint in the reserves than being self-trained, you'll still face much more professional soldiers. Unless you want the majority of the working class to follow your example (which is ridiculous), there is no point in what you're doing at all. I know this sounds pretty grim, but fighting in a popular communist revolution essentially means that you want the state to collapse faster than how fast the workers are demoralized and go home because of the losses they take.

[Thirsty Crow]

I'm planning on joining the Canadian reserves in exchange for training and for a source of income. Having combat experience will make me a valuable comrade once I am able to aid in liberation movements and such. I despise the military, yet I see no other viable alternative.
Viable alternative - to what?

Destitution? Economic enlisting is indeed a phenomenon, and if it is so, then all the best and take care.

But don't fool yourself with any rationalizations about the revolutionary potential inherent in any such thing. And more importantly, you may want to give this whole combat angle a serious thought as you wouldn't want to enlist with the sole purpose of serving an insurrectionary fantasy you cooked up for yourself (now would be the time to mention the book Nihilist Communism - go and google and read).

[The Feral Underclass]

I'm not going to war for them and as I mentioned previously, there are no other options for me besides this due to my age and location.

I'm confused. You say you want combat experience but you're not going to war for them...:confused:

Also, if you're a reserve soldier, you don't get much choice to decide. If Canada does go to war or has some Nato rotation in which reserve soldiers are deployed, you don't get to say no.

[Comrade Njordr]

I'm confused. You say you want combat experience but you're not going to war for them...:confused:

Also, if you're a reserve soldier, you don't get much choice to decide. If Canada does go to war or has some Nato rotation in which reserve soldiers are deployed, you don't get to say no.
You can leave the reserve and at some point I'll likely leave the country. I'm too young for them to send me out yet anyway. I don't want to aid their imperialist agenda by going to war for them but they do simulate war like situations which will give me some experience at the very least. My family has a military history and my father has spent 20+ years in the British army, he shows revolutionary potential as do many other soldiers (though many do not).

The group I'd be joining is often sent to aid civilians during natural disasters such as floods so at the very least I may actually be helping people who require it during my training period.

They not only train you in combat, they also teach various skills such as operating and fixing vehicles, military grade weaponry and so on.

[Comrade Njordr]

Btw, I'm not doing it primarily for the income, that's just a bonus. When my father joined the reserves, the money allowed him to pay his college tuition, something I can't afford as of now. This also seems to be the best paying job available at the moment. I don't want to work at Tim Hortons.

[Anglo-Saxon Philistine]

My family has a military history and my father has spent 20+ years in the British army, he shows revolutionary potential as do many other soldiers (though many do not).

Soldiers have "revolutionary potential" (i.e. they have the potential to join the civil war on the side of the proletarian dictatorship, not to start a revolution) because a lot of them are from proletarian roots, destitute, abused and forced to expose themselves to mortal danger for the benefit of a privileged officer corps and the bourgeois state. Because they're meat for the grinder. Do you want to be meat for the grinder? Don't get me wrong, if your job prospects are nil and the military is the only place you can go, that's just economic conscription. But then don't romanticise it by talking about your revolutionary potential like the military is a trainer in an RPG you go to to level up your Revolutionary Potential.

And the proletarian dictatorship will win, not because communists are ultra kewl full spectrum warriors, or because we will take on an imperialist army using pistols, but because it can split the imperialist army, drawing the proletarian and plebeian element to it. You don't need military training to do that.


The group I'd be joining is often sent to aid civilians during natural disasters such as floods so at the very least I may actually be helping people who require it during my training period.

Such groups also help police disaster areas (like Haiti) in the interest of the imperialist powers.

[Comrade Njordr]

Soldiers have "revolutionary potential" (i.e. they have the potential to join the civil war on the side of the proletarian dictatorship, not to start a revolution) because a lot of them are from proletarian roots, destitute, abused and forced to expose themselves to mortal danger for the benefit of a privileged officer corps and the bourgeois state. Because they're meat for the grinder. Do you want to be meat for the grinder? Don't get me wrong, if your job prospects are nil and the military is the only place you can go, that's just economic conscription. But then don't romanticise it by talking about your revolutionary potential like the military is a trainer in an RPG you go to to level up your Revolutionary Potential.

And the proletarian dictatorship will win, not because communists are ultra kewl full spectrum warriors, or because we will take on an imperialist army using pistols, but because it can split the imperialist army, drawing the proletarian and plebeian element to it. You don't need military training to do that.



Such groups also help police disaster areas (like Haiti) in the interest of the imperialist powers.
Like I said, I'm not becoming a full time imperialist dog so stop thinking that. All I'm trying to say is that it's better to have some knowledge on the subject and some experience to go with it. And I doubt that soldiers will immediately join the proletarian revolution without a little push from the inside.

I might not be able to join in the first place. If they discover that I'm a communist they'll likely send me home.

I am dedicated to the liberation of the proletariat, comrade. Whatever happens, I'll never allow myself to go against that dedication. I'd rather act then sit on my arse all day bickering and whining about nothing. That is my ultimate goal in life, and there's absolutely nothing romantic about it. I'm tired of this and want to impact the world for the better, at least I'm not a coward and will carry out my plans.

[BIXX]

Dude you're being dumb.

[RedWorker]

I am dedicated to the liberation of the proletariat, comrade. Whatever happens, I'll never allow myself to go against that dedication. I'd rather act then sit on my arse all day bickering and whining about nothing. That is my ultimate goal in life, and there's absolutely nothing romantic about it. I'm tired of this and want to impact the world for the better, at least I'm not a coward and will carry out my plans.

Honestly, from an outside opinion it looks entirely romantic.

You want to do something? Why not constantly attend protests, demonstrations, partake in anti-fascist actions, join a party, give speeches, write articles, place propaganda, etc.? You could literally be spending hours a day on this.

[Hatshepsut]

Friedrich Engels spent time in the Prussian Army of 1841, then later drew on this experience when fighting with the Baden-Palatinate insurrectionary army during the 1848-49 revolutions. So I wouldn't say that a military stint is necessarily incompatible with a later career in Leftist politics. Or that the discipline is useless. But there are real downsides to military life, and of course, once you sign on that dotted line they really do own you. You may be sent to a protest site and told to shoot people, as happened with National Guardsmen at Kent State (Ohio, USA, 1970). Military training and fitness also tend to fade off if not used after leaving—Given any kind of combat occurs in connection with revolution, retraining for it will still be required for veterans.

[Bala Perdida]

I might not be able to join in the first place. If they discover that I'm a communist they'll likely send me home.


I was about to say lol... probably don't do that, but if you want this the drawing attention here and talking about understanding their operations for a potential overthrow stops being a personal learning experience and starts to sound more like conspiring terrorism.

Probably don't do either one.

[John Nada]

Like I said, I'm not becoming a full time imperialist dog so stop thinking that. All I'm trying to say is that it's better to have some knowledge on the subject and some experience to go with it. And I doubt that soldiers will immediately join the proletarian revolution without a little push from the inside.So you only want to be a part-time imperialist running dog.:laugh:

I don't think anyone should give any aid to an imperialist state if possible. It's one thing to join out of desperation, get drafted, infiltrate to spread propaganda among the lumpenproletarian soldiers or gather intel on behalf of an already established revolutionary org, and to fall for the "we'll teach you skills" propaganda the state puts out. It's bullshit to recruit people fresh out of high school.

While I do not expect "99%" of the people to side with a potential revolution(proletariat is not the only class), strongly suspect most of the military won't desert/defect(though some will), a bunch of foreign nations will invade to strangle it(with no/not as strong revolutionary movements of "their own" to stop it), a significant minority of proletarians are class traitors, will involve some degree of war rather than politics(the distinction is not great, or real IMO) and will not be one big general strike/protest/election/riot/Second Coming that makes the bourgeoisie surrender power, the violent combat will be a small part in the grand scheme of things. Vast majority of work will be not that violent political work, like propaganda.

My understanding is the training is more to instill discipline and loyalty, not so much create left-wing versions of Rambo. You likely can go to a gun range, at least after driving to the US. You can go hiking and exercise on your own or with friends. You can study literature on war. You likely aren't the only potential revolutionary that can have military training, and they can train people. A lot of revolutionaries were not vets or were self-taught. Honestly you'd be more useful in a revolution going to college or learning a trade.
I might not be able to join in the first place. If they discover that I'm a communist they'll likely send me home.Or you'll find yourself thrown in the shittest of assignment, and in danger on whatever frontline.
I am dedicated to the liberation of the proletariat, comrade. Whatever happens, I'll never allow myself to go against that dedication. I'd rather act then sit on my arse all day bickering and whining about nothing. That is my ultimate goal in life, and there's absolutely nothing romantic about it. I'm tired of this and want to impact the world for the better, at least I'm not a coward and will carry out my plans.Don't fell bad. This wait and do nothing opportunism is widespread, the vast supermajority in fact.:) I'd be lying if I said I was above it. But the opportunism of adventurism is bad too. Fuck if you really want combat experience join the International Freedom Brigade or Lions of Rojava. AFAIK not illegal. A progressive cause to advance the Revolution, and combat experience you definately won't get in a National Guard. Just watch out for snipers and IEDs.(a joke, don't do this:grin: )

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I think it's one thing to have joined the army and then come to a conclusion that rejects imperialism and completely another thing altogether to claim to reject imperialism and then join an imperialist military despite that.