Venezuela deporting Colombians amidst border closure

[Bala Perdida]

Well, the PSUV's gone full on terrible. I feel safe saying that being that most people that would defend Maduro are either gone or quite. Allegedly, a paramilitary attack on the Colombian border killed some Venezuelan military and a civilian. So Maduro closed down the border, then extended the border closing. Also, for some reason started deporting Colombians living in Venezuela. Probably accusing them of undermining the motherland or some bullshit. Hundreds of Colombians have been deported and hundreds more are fleeing before being deported.

I couldn't find a better article to summarize it so we'll have to settle with this French 24:

http://www.france24.com/en/20150826-colombia-venezuela-border-crisis-mass-deportations

Hundreds of Colombians fled Venezuela Tuesday, opting to leave the country with their belongings rather than be deported empty-handed like more than 1,000 people sent home in an escalating border crisis.

Some carted refrigerators or mattresses on their backs as they made the trek from the Venezuelan state of Tachira back to their home country, wading through the waist-deep water of the river that forms the border.

“We left at 3:00 am in the clothes we were wearing. We wanted to come back before they deported us,” said Rosana Morena, a 25-year-old Colombian who left with her two children.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro ordered the border between Tachira and the Colombian department of Norte de Santander closed last week in response to an attack by unidentified assailants on a military patrol, which wounded a civilian and three soldiers on an anti-smuggling operation.

He initially ordered the closure for 72 hours, but later extended it indefinitely, accusing the neighboring country of waging “an attack on Venezuela’s economy.”

That was a reference to the rampant smuggling of heavily subsidized food and other goods out of Venezuela.

Venezuela has long used its oil wealth to fund price controls that keep goods like rice and toilet paper up to 10 times cheaper than in Colombia.

But it is also in the grips of crippling shortages, now exacerbated by tumbling oil prices.

After closing the border, the Venezuelan government launched mass deportations, unleashing what Colombian Interior Minister Juan Fernando Cristo decried as “a humanitarian tragedy.”

Most of the deportees were sent home for alleged documentation problems, without families or their belongings.

Some 600 of them are being housed in shelters, while 400 are staying with relatives, officials said.

Colombian police said another 400 to 700 people had streamed across the border to avoid deportation.

Dozens of those fleeing accused Venezuelan soldiers of robbing their belongings and ordering them to leave their homes within a matter of hours—marking houses with a D for “deported” or an R for “relocated.”

Authorities in the Colombian border town of Cucuta have set up a center to deal with the influx.

The two nations’ foreign ministers are scheduled to meet Wednesday in the Colombian resort city of Cartagena to discuss the crisis.

(AFP)

Date created : 2015-08-26

One thing that sympathetic socialists will probably point out, that I'll give them, is that a border closing happened this week between Honduras and El Salvador I believe. Honduras is claiming that it is closing off the border in order to prevent gangsters and criminals from getting in. I remember watching it last night on Univision, but today a google search didn't pull up any articles. I wanted to link that one on here too, so if anyone finds it and wants to link it here that'd be cool.

[Atsumari]

Well then, there goes more of their international solidarity. It's only a matter of time before even Marxist-Leninists stop caring about Venezuela

[John Nada]

There's five million Colombian immigrants living in Venezuela. 90% of that area is of Colombian descent. This is a relatively small number deported, especially compared to other nations like Mexico, which has deported nearly 100,000 undocumented immigrants later year. Difference being that Pena regime goes along with the US and caters to the bourgeoisie, but in the case of the PSUV the US is determined to bring that government down. The Monroe Doctrine doesn't tolerated even a social democracy in the western hemisphere. And the corporate media goes along with making first Chavez and now Maduro to be like the Anti-Christ.Maduro said that it's not directed at the Colombian people, but towards rightist gangs waging economic war on Venezuela. http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Maduro-Proposes-Creation-of-Colombian-Movement-for-Peace-20150825-0047.html

There's literally a rebellion against the government and the proletariat by the comprador and petty-bourgeois guarimbas. There's an economic war not unlike the one waged against Allende before the coup. Hording, black market speculation on the bolivar and even basic goods, and smuggling is causing shortages and driving up de facto inflation. The border is ran by organized crime profiting off of all this, it isn't some xenophobic conspiracy.

[bricolage]

Maduro said that it's not directed at the Colombian people, but towards rightist gangs waging economic war on Venezuela.
Sounds remarkably similar to the EU governments that say they're after people smugglers and gangs, but never immigrants...

[John Nada]

Sounds remarkably similar to the EU governments that say they're after people smugglers and gangs, but never immigrants...It is very worrying that it could be xenophobic, if it isn't already. And that same site has that exact positive spin towards Merkel and Hollande: http://www.france24.com/en/20150824-france-hollande-germany-merkel-migrant-crisis-immigration-europe-ukraine

My point is it's a social democratic government acting like a government(as in shit), but France's state news is spun as propaganda like it's way worse than the US or France.The former actually having Colombian rightist paramilitaries making a killing off the black market currency exchange, and a reactionary movement(mostly Venezuelan) backed by the US that seeks to overthrow the government. Never these "civilized countries", just all not in those same countries' sphere of influence. All part of this "socialism doesn't work, neoliberalism is the way" narrative(yes it's not socialism).

The problem isn't too much "socialism" but not enough and too much capitalism. Venezuela's problem isn't that it's not letting the free market work its magic. If we oppose the Venezuelan government, it's because they're managing capitalism and not trying to replace it.

[Bala Perdida]

How does deporting people reduce paramilitary violence?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

How does deporting people reduce paramilitary violence?

The Venezuelan govt. has repeatedly accused shadowy "Colombian paramilitaries" of working with the right there to assassinate PSUV officials, etc. Not agreeing with this policy or anything, but I'm guessing that's the rationale.

[Comrade Jacob]

Madurbro pls

[Guardia Rossa]

If I was Maduro I would just f0cking deport every single bourgeois and apprehend everything (US will surely give them homes, cars, etc...), and turn into a freaking state-capitalist nation arleady, with planned economy and all.

Neo-Fabianists....

[Ocean Seal]

Sounds remarkably similar to the EU governments that say they're after people smugglers and gangs, but never immigrants...
Except they do frequently say they are after immigrants. Esoecially when they say things like "unsustainable pace of immigrant" "culture culture" "they're all criminals. This isn't a mass deportation, its not racially or economically targeted, instead its an incisive political move to remove actual terrorists (not like the ISIS guys they make up) from Venezuela. It's kind of like how Cuba/ East Germany were frequently under attack from US/W. German terror plots.

[Armchair Partisan]

Except they do frequently say they are after immigrants. Esoecially when they say things like "unsustainable pace of immigrant" "culture culture" "they're all criminals. This isn't a mass deportation, its not racially or economically targeted, instead its an incisive political move to remove actual terrorists (not like the ISIS guys they make up) from Venezuela. It's kind of like how Cuba/ East Germany were frequently under attack from US/W. German terror plots.

If they are terrorists, why aren't they detained and charged as such? They are being expelled for "documentation problems" according to the article, not for terror attacks.

Considering that Venezuela has recently overdosed on nationalism by bothering people with stupid irredentist claims on Guyana Essequibo, I'm willing to give little benefit of the doubt to the Venezuelan government here.

[Ocean Seal]

If they are terrorists, why aren't they detained and charged as such? They are being expelled for "documentation problems" according to the article, not for terror attacks.

Considering that Venezuela has recently overdosed on nationalism by bothering people with stupid irredentist claims on Guyana Essequibo, I'm willing to give little benefit of the doubt to the Venezuelan government here.

There are networks of Colombian paramilitaries who do frequently make trips over the border to do bad things, and certainly this isn't nationalist sabre rattling because as you said they would be detaining them if they really wanted to pump up the nationalist juices. But they don't because they don't have the evidence, I also don't think its very difficult to come in from Colombia to Venezuela. At least not as difficult as it is to come to Europe or North America.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

If I was Maduro I would just f0cking deport every single bourgeois and apprehend everything

Well, he can't well deport himself, can he now? That wouldn't work. No, better keep at these small-scale actions. Nationalise a firm here and there when it gets troublesome, leave the rest alone. Take no organised action against the banks. Don't want to scare off the capital. Oh...

[blake 3:17]

Venezuela’s U.N. Envoy Defends Crackdown Along Border With Colombia
By RICK GLADSTONE and WILLIAM NEUMANSEPT. 8, 2015

The Venezuelan ambassador to the United Nations offered an impassioned defense on Tuesday of his country’s border closings with Colombia, arguing that illicit trafficking of domestic fuel, food and other goods by Colombian smugglers accounted for 35 percent of all Venezuelan economic output.

The ambassador, Rafael Ramírez, a former foreign minister, energy minister and head of the national oil company, said the action was a response to what he called increasingly brazen acts by Colombian smugglers and other criminals, as well as acquiescence by Colombia’s government.

He said smugglers had been sending 100,000 barrels of inexpensive Venezuelan gasoline and diesel fuel over the border every day and selling it at enormous profits.

Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE

Families crossing the Venezuelan border with Colombia early Thursday morning.Colombians Flee Venezuela’s Crackdown on ImmigrantsAUG. 27, 2015
In an interview at Venezuela’s United Nations mission, Mr. Ramírez said the smugglers, whom he described as “worse than the Mafia,” had also been profiteering from illicit sales of Venezuelan produce, flour and other goods, which are sold at government-regulated low prices in Venezuela but can fetch much higher prices in Colombia.

“They smuggle 35 percent of our national production, which has taken a tremendous toll on our economy,” Mr. Ramírez said, punctuating his point with photographs on his laptop of what he described as hoarded smuggler contraband, including trucks and boats piled high with barrels of fuel.

Mr. Ramírez also rejected accusations of an anti-Colombian purge and human rights abuses committed by Venezuela. He noted that his country had long taken in Colombian immigrants and refugees from that country’s legacy of guerrilla war, paramilitary violence, mayhem and economic uncertainty.

“It’s very important to know that Venezuela has welcomed over five and a half million Colombians,” Mr. Ramírez said.

He spoke after President Nicolás Maduro moved to expand the border crackdown, closing a major crossing with Colombia near Maracaibo, Venezuela’s second-largest city, in the northwest corner of the country.

Mr. Maduro also declared a state of emergency in parts of the area, which gives added powers to the police and military authorities and restricts some civil liberties, such as the right to protest or hold public gatherings.

Venezuela has deported more than 1,000 Colombians as part of the border crackdown, which began Aug. 19. Many more who were living on the Venezuelan side of the border have returned to Colombia out of fear of being targeted.

While Mr. Maduro and other Venezuelan officials have blamed paramilitaries and criminals for the smuggling, many economists say it is largely a result of government policies that maintain low prices on gasoline and staple goods, creating an incentive for smugglers who can sell them for much more across the border. The plummeting value of the Venezuelan currency, the bolívar, has further fueled the illicit trade, since it makes Venezuelan products that much cheaper by comparison.

full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/09/world/americas/venezuelas-un-envoy-defends-crackdown-along-border-with-colombia.html?_r=0

[Bala Perdida]

This one's not the deportation case, but this is the most relevant Venezuela thread right now so I'll just post it here.

LEOPOLDO LOPEZ SENTENCED TO 13 YEARS FOR INCITING PROTESTS:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuela-court-sentences-leopoldo-lopez-to-more-than-13-years-in-prison-1441942474

Given that he's a politician and only helping to increase US interests in Venezuala I'm inclined not to give a fuck. More so given my further radicalization since he got booked last year. Still I think long term prison sentences are bullshit, but I don't think this guy is gonna have it too bad in prison. It looks bad from the videos, but prison in Venezuela is corrupt as hell and he's got money so I'm sure it's basically equal to being sent to his room for him. Which would even be bad for normal people, but he's no normal people.

Anyways, the old me still finds it annoying that US media outlets call human rights and shit on this. Protesting here (for reals protesting) can get you one hell of a sentence, and if Lopez did what he did over here they'd at least do the same here. If not worse. Actually, given the potential he has he'd probably be killed.

The real tragedy is that there's no noticeable subversive alternative in the protest. Instead of burning Venezuelan flags the opposition is waving them just as much as those in power. What the hell do they expect is gonna change? You can see pockets of actual subversive protesters, but most of them just wanna replace maduro. It sucks

[John Nada]

https://i.imgur.com/LjKOjEn.jpg

Seems someone in the Venezuelan government has a sense of humor.:laugh:
The real tragedy is that there's no noticeable subversive alternative in the protest. Instead of burning Venezuelan flags the opposition is waving them just as much as those in power. What the hell do they expect is gonna change? You can see pockets of actual subversive protesters, but most of them just wanna replace maduro. It sucksIt's tempting to sympathize with someone protesting/rioting, supposedly against the authorities. Gotta admit that's often my first instinct. But that in of itself is not always for the better. If the Tea Party and Patriot Movement started setting up armed blockades, this is not a good thing. Likewise, the Guarimberos are a rightist petit-bourgeois movement, backed by the US and the big bourgeoisie, against the proletariat, opposed to anything progressive PSUV and Great Patriotic Pole have done or want to do(like the communes in particular), and want neoliberal capitalism. It's not a protest from the left, but opposition from the right. By that fact alone, it subverts any potential progressive movement by putting them on the defensive against US imperialism.

Shit, I'm more concerned about the lack of subversive movements here in the US.:unsure:

[WideAwake]

You know lack of reading, lack of studying, political science, political systems, and in this socialism, and general knowledge is I think one of the major causes of why the supporters and voters of the government of Nicolas Maduro defend all his policies, unconditionally, even if Nicolas Maduro is not taking Venezuela toward a worker's state, and even though Nicolas Maduro hasn't nationalized many corporations lately. Another motive is the "lesser evil" tactic, the Maduro supporters see that Maduro is less evil than the neoliberal capitalist politicians Maria Machado and Capriles.

I've been in other leftist forums and in Facebook and from what I've heard the Chavistas are behaving like ultra-nationalists, xenophobic, not like nazis, but they are not behaving like socialist people at all. Socialist people should love all poor humans despite of their nationality.

And I am sorry for that type of behaviour of the chavistas Maduro followers, because that hateful mentality, full of hatred, vengeance and negative emotions is an impediment for people to go on with their every day lives. It is real hard for the young to study, for the govenment itself to tackle the domestic economic problems. If it preaches hating the Colombians

And the followers of Nicolas Maduro, are very nervous people, very reactionary, if you say anthing against Nicolas Maduro, they will destroy you verbally. There is a group called "Marea Socialista" that critisizes Maduro, and most chavistas hate that organization.

I am so sorry for most chavistas, not having a clear understanding of what socialism really is











Well, the PSUV's gone full on terrible. I feel safe saying that being that most people that would defend Maduro are either gone or quite. Allegedly, a paramilitary attack on the Colombian border killed some Venezuelan military and a civilian. So Maduro closed down the border, then extended the border closing. Also, for some reason started deporting Colombians living in Venezuela. Probably accusing them of undermining the motherland or some bullshit. Hundreds of Colombians have been deported and hundreds more are fleeing before being deported.

I couldn't find a better article to summarize it so we'll have to settle with this French 24:

france24.com/en/20150826-colombia-venezuela-border-crisis-mass-deportations


One thing that sympathetic socialists will probably point out, that I'll give them, is that a border closing happened this week between Honduras and El Salvador I believe. Honduras is claiming that it is closing off the border in order to prevent gangsters and criminals from getting in. I remember watching it last night on Univision, but today a google search didn't pull up any articles. I wanted to link that one on here too, so if anyone finds it and wants to link it here that'd be cool.