Why doesn't this site have more activity?

[Gunsmas]

I know web-forums seem to be dying a slow death, but I used google to search leftist forums and it keeps pointing me right back here suggesting there isn't some bigger place I am unaware of. :unsure:

[Armchair Partisan]

What I cansee right now is that the quality of debates is really low and there are a lot more flamewars than intelligent discussions around (or so it seems), and apparently it's been that way for a while. I guess the atmosphere here is really hostile and unforgiving, which scares away a lot of people.

[Sharia Lawn]

I could tell you, but then I'd be banned, restricted, or infracted. (protip: that's the answer)

Edit: Yes, seriously, look through some old posts of members. Find banned users you think are really smart. Look at their last posts on this forum. That will clue you in.

[Gunsmas]

I could tell you, but then I'd be banned, restricted, or infracted. (protip: that's the answer)

Edit: Yes, seriously, look through some old posts of members. Find banned users you think are really smart. Look at their last posts on this forum. That will clue you in.

I've noticed when I read through old threads, half of the users seem to be banned or restricted... when I read through their post histories I can't seem to find out a good reason why.

It makes me scared to speak my mind and opinions if I have a constant fear of getting the boot.

It's great this forum exists and I am happy to be a part of it but I'd like to see it flourish.

[Sharia Lawn]

I've noticed when I read through old threads, half of the users seem to be banned or restricted... when I read through their post histories I can't seem to find out a good reason why.

It makes me scared to speak my mind and opinions if I have a constant fear of getting the boot.

It's great this forum exists and I am happy to be a part of it but I'd like to see it flourish.

There are several cultural issues that are near and dear to liberals where, if you veer even slightly from MSNBC talking points on the forum, you will be fucked hard and suddenly. Meanwhile, there are posters on the forum who are perfectly free to tell developing leftists to vote for or not oppose bourgeois parties and candidates. Some of them are even moderators.

Draw your own conclusions about what this means.

[PhoenixAsh]

There are several cultural issues that are near and dear to liberals where, if you veer even slightly from MSNBC talking points on the forum, you will be fucked hard and suddenly. Meanwhile, there are posters on the forum who are perfectly free to tell developing leftists to vote for or not oppose bourgeois parties and candidates. Some of them are even moderators.

Draw your own conclusions about what this means.

Really?

Then it would be very easy for you to provide a link to the exact post where a moderator said exactly what you say here...that developing leftist should vote for a bourgeois party and/or where they told people that they couldn't oppose them, right?

[Fourth Internationalist]

Really?

Then it would be very easy for you to provide a link to the exact post where a moderator said exactly what you say here...that developing leftist should vote for a bourgeois party and/or where they told people that they couldn't oppose them, right?

You closed an entire thread just three days ago where you were debating Izvestia about this very issue because you wanted to save Izvestia from harming himself (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2848875&postcount=120). So why are you even replying to him now? To start another "debate"?

[Patchd]

There have always been flamewars and admin/mod disputes on revleft. These traditional forums just seem to be dying out in favour of other message board formats, and there's probably been a bit of disillusionment and abstentionism from politics or political activity from some of the previously active members. My last post before tonight here was about 2 years ago, and I wasn't even as active as I had been then, as I was a few years before even.

[Redistribute the Rep]

I've noticed when I read through old threads, half of the users seem to be banned or restricted... when I read through their post histories I can't seem to find out a good reason why.


But how many were self bans?

[PhoenixAsh]

You closed an entire thread just three days ago where you were debating Izvestia about this very issue because you wanted to save Izvestia from harming himself (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2848875&postcount=120). So why are you even replying to him now? To start another "debate"?

O hey look...white knighting... :rolleyes:

I reply to anybody I want to reply. Does this pose a problem for you? Do you take issue? Should we PM you a request for permission every time we want to reply to somebody?

I want him to finally provide the exact quote I keep asking for where anybody here said exactly what he keeps alleging people say, both in that thread (and has admitted he can't quote btw) and for the last few years, and plastering over this forum.

But I like how you put "debate" in quotation marks...because yes...I completely agree with you that given his continuous flames from the very start of that conversation (which you conveniently overlook) he is in no way interested in a honest debate....which is indeed his usual style.

[Fourth Internationalist]

O hey look...white knighting... :rolleyes:

I reply to anybody I want to reply.

I want him to finally provide the exact quote I keep asking for where anybody here said exactly what he keeps alleging people say, both in that thread (and has admitted he can't quote btw) and for the last few years, and plastering over this forum.

So yes you want to start up the debate again. Gosh you know you can just answer directly.


But I like how you put "debate" in quotation marks...because yes...I completely agree with you that given his continuous flames from the very start of that conversation (which you conveniently overlook) he is in no way interested in a honest debate.Another mod disagreed with this. As do I. And others. But sure, let's go with this if you want.

[PhoenixAsh]

So yes you want to start up the debate again. Gosh you know you can just answer directly.

No. I want him after being asked for it more than 5 times over the last months...to finally provide the link to where that is said by a mod. Unfortunately he hasn't provided that link, even said he couldn't provide that link. Yet...like a good FOX news student keeps repeating this.

So he needs to put up or shut up.


Another mod disagreed with this. As do I. And others. But sure, let's go with this if you want.

O, you deny this?

Well....there you go:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2848281&postcount=32

That kind of attitude doesn't show any intent to have a honest debate, at all, and in fact rather displays the attitude to polarize and escalate.

So no. Don't give me that crap about how you "disagree"...you, and that MOD, simply failed to notice (which is giving you the huge, huge benefit of the doubt there that this isn't yet again another case of subjective positioning).

[Sharia Lawn]

Eh, FourthInternatioanlist, don't waste your time with this pro-Syriza "anarchist." Anybody in this thread who is really interested in answering the question of the OP can look through PhoenixAsh's posts and the posts of the other users on who make up the forum's core userbase. If they can read English, they can see where what I described happens all the time. In the meantime, his dredging up this issue is clearly just him looking to start a fight that he wanted to shut down in another forum. It's probably him wanting to shut this thread down as well, which wouldn't be surprising in the least. Hmm. I wonder why this forum is so inactive?

[PhoenixAsh]

Eh, FourthInternatioanlist, don't waste your time with this pro-Syriza "anarchist." Anybody in this thread who is really interested in answering the question of the OP can look through PhoenixAsh's posts and the posts of the other users on who make up the forum's core userbase.

Answer the question Izvestia and provide the link to the post where what you allege is said in those exact words...you keep dodging that. I wonder why? (well...I don't wonder at all...I know exactly why you are dodging this. But it is a nice turn of phrase).

Because what you are doing is exactly the answer to OP's post.

[Sharia Lawn]

Answer the question Izvestia and provide the link to the post where what you allege is said in those exact words.

If you want to debate the content of another thread that has been closed, re-open it. Otherwise, you're clearly derailing this one, which is nothing new for you, since you are one of the worst posters on this forum.

For those who want to see the kind of "moderator" we are dealing with here, here is an image from that closed thread of a different moderator's post after he re-opened the thread and let Phoenix know how far out to lunch he was in the debate. Phoenix, unable to brook any criticism, quickly deleted the post and reclosed the thread, chiding that moderator.http://i.imgur.com/7E0dH9f.jpg

[PhoenixAsh]

If you want to debate the content of another thread that has been closed, re-open it. Otherwise, you're clearly derailing this one, which is nothing new for you,

I think you have that backwards Izvestia. You made a very specific allegation in this thread. And not for the first time.

You, and not me, made it a subject in this thread. So here we are...

And once again (after being asked yet again) you fail (yet again) to provide the quote where a moderator said exactly what you are alleging here.



since you are one of the worst posters on this forum.

Coming from you I take that as a huge compliment.

[Fourth Internationalist]

No. I want him after being asked for it more than 5 times over the last months...to finally provide the link to where that is said by a mod. Unfortunately he hasn't provided that link, even said he couldn't provide that link. Yet...like a good FOX news student keeps repeating this.

So he needs to put up or shut up.

So, it's still a yes, you want to continue to debate him.


O, you deny this?

Well....there you go:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2848281&postcount=32

That kind of attitude doesn't show any intent to have a honest debate, at all, and in fact rather displays the attitude to polarize and escalate.

So no. Don't give me that crap about how you "disagree"...you, and that MOD, simply failed to notice (which is giving you the huge, huge benefit of the doubt there that this isn't yet again another case of subjective positioning).I think Tim's post has already addressed that both Izvestia's and your posts were quite abrasive, albeit in different ways (polemical vs personal). But of course, me, the mod, etc. all are wrong and you're right. Whatever makes you happy. *inserts obnoxious smilie*

[PhoenixAsh]

For those who want to see the kind of "moderator" we are dealing with here, here is an image from that closed thread of a different moderator's post after he re-opened the thread and let Phoenix know how far out to lunch he was in the debate. Phoenix, unable to brook any criticism, quickly deleted the post and reclosed the thread, chiding that moderator.

O no I am pretty aware of what I called you. And I stand by every word I said to you...with keeping in mind that I was being deliberately nice.

That said Izvestia, like I said in that thread, people like you are a dime a dozen. They set out in a debate making sly ad hominem attacks and polarizing the debate from the start. You weren't interested in a debate, you weren't having a debate....you were pushing to start shit, like you usually do....and you got shit.

And you couldn't handle it. So you started balling about how unfairly you are treated here on the forum.

You purposefully misrepresent arguments, you straw man, you make ad hominem attacks....and you plaster your false allegations, you fail again and again to actually produce in quotes, all over the forum while you whine about how low the post quality is. But when push comes to shove you simply got what you gave.

Tim didn't notice what you were doing and as per guideline you don't post in a closed thread as a mod. Posts are deleted. That discussion however was continued through PM, where it belonged in the first place.

[PhoenixAsh]

I think Tim's post has already addressed that both Izvestia's and your posts were quite abrasive, albeit in different ways (polemical vs personal). But of course, me, the mod, etc. all are wrong and you're right. Whatever makes you happy. *inserts obnoxious smilie*

What Tim did and didn't address is of no consequence for the fact that he is objectively wrong in his assessment. And per extent that means that indeed all of you are wrong. Suggest you do some searches about flaming and how people have a varying set of standards to assess it: http://my.ilstu.edu/~posull/flaming.htm

That will explain things for you....and why what Izvestia started out to do in that thread is in fact flaming and flame baiting. And he got what he gave, yet as usual friends will be friends.

That however is all besides the fact that Izvestia has still to provide evidence for his allegation.

And you seem to not be very interested in him doing so. Which means that you find it perfectly ok that users make such allegations without having to back it up. Ironically...you did have a problem when I did exactly the same to Izvestia later in the thread. Hypocrisy is an art form.


So, it's still a yes, you want to continue to debate him.

He wants to apparently make allegations in another thread....so it is more the situation that he needs to provide evidence that moderators here indeed said what he claims. Seems fair and not to much to ask. Doesn't it?

[Sharia Lawn]

While derailing yet another thread, PhoenixAsh wants to pose as an authority on flaming. Well, he has plenty of experience with the topic, so why not? Take a look at his handiwork in this thread, look at the whole thread from start to finish, noting who is flaming who. Then consider the question posed by the OP, the role Phoenix is playing in the present thread, and the general issue of "leadership" exercised on this forum.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2793921&postcount=223

[PhoenixAsh]

While derailing yet another thread, PhoenixAsh wants to pose as an authority on flaming. Well, he has plenty of experience in the topic, so why not? Take a look at his handiwork in this thread, look at the whole thread from start to finish, noting who is flaming who. Then consider the question posed by the OP, and the role Phoenix is playing in the present thread.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2793921&postcount=223

Owww...Izvestia. That post is soooo October 2014. And you have sooooo much new material to chose from.

For example....after having been requoted as "Syriza's legal council" for a few posts...I said you would have an awesome future as a discount circus clown. Which you then, incidentally, immediately started crying about....because...hypocrisy I guess. I never said I didn't flame you....I said I was still being nice.

It seems however to be perfectly fine when you make ad hominem's and flames but when it happens to you it suddenly isn't all that much fun now is it? If you can't handle it...then don't do it. And of course everybody treats you very unfairly. You are still here aren't you? Have you ever gotten an infraction from me? Ever? Nope. You haven't. You haven't been banned....and the only thing you have to put up with is me mirroring how you treat me. So indeed....get it through your skull...I am mirroring you. Take some fucking responsibility.

And even in this thread you just can't be honest and try to weasel your way out of it.

You made allegations. You were asked to provide the quotes that show this actually being said. This is not derailing a thread. This is asking you to put up or shut up....about a post you made.
Now...nowhere do I actually see a quote supporting the allegation you have been making in this thread. What a surprise.

So...is that actually forth coming or are you going to keep whining about how I flamed you after you flamed me in an attempt to dodge this yet again?

[Fourth Internationalist]

What Tim did and didn't address is of no consequence for the fact that he is objectively wrong in his assessment. And per extent that means that indeed all of you are wrong.

I don't think he was wrong. I already know you don't think he was right. Obviously.


Suggest you do some searches about flaming and how people have a varying set of standards to assess it: http://my.ilstu.edu/~posull/flaming.htm
That will explain things for you....and why what Izvestia started out to do in that thread is in fact flaming and flame baiting. And he got what he gave, yet as usual friends will be friends.I'm not reading that link (chances are, you didn't either)


That however is all besides the fact that Izvestia has still to provide evidence for his allegation.

And you seem to not be very interested in him doing so. Which means that you find it perfectly ok that users make such allegations without having to back it up. Ironically...you did have a problem when I did exactly the same to Izvestia later in the thread. Hypocrisy is an art form.So, at BEST, you're both guilty of doing something wrong, of committing the same crime (though, Izvestia has addressed this already, and he is capable of doing so in the future if he so wishes). The important point here is, you, as a mod, shut down a thread over it, over a debate you were involved in, one in which you did the same crime you accuse Izvestia of (again, he can answer for himself on this). That's why I first posted here, noting you're trying to restart the debate (perhaps just to shut it down again).

I have nothing against you pressing Izvestia on a point in an argument you were making, but you shut down the thread where that action was appropriate, and are bringing it up again. Reopen the thread, or stop bringing it up. It's pretty simple. Do as you wish, though. I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right no matter what. If using mod powers helps with that, then more power to you. It just makes you look silly when you bring it up again.

edit: anyways, I'm not replying anymore. I've said all I've had to say. Other users can judge for themselves.

[Sharia Lawn]

Owww...Izvestia. That post is soooo October 2014. And you have sooooo much new material to chose from.

There are many other examples to choose from. This just happened to be conveniently at hand and epitomizes the behavior that many, many people have pointed out about your posting proclivities. Heck, even somebody friendly with you on a personal level pointed it out to you in the thread you closed in a tantrum. Your behavior is one of the things that drags the quality of the whole forum down, tbh, especially since you post so much. People will notice I didn't flame you in that thread, while being flamed at least a dozen times. Does anybody wonder why, after no action was taken against you in that thread (and many others), I would suddenly start flaming a little, though not to the same degree that you regularly do, in a thread a year later?

I strongly hope people who have the same question as the OP look at the posting history and arrive at their own answers. Don't trust me or Phoenix. Trust your own two eyes.

[Hatshepsut]

I've noticed when I read through old threads, half of the users seem to be banned or restricted...It makes me scared to speak my mind and opinions if I have a constant fear of getting the boot.

I don't worry too much about it. Having an Internet forum account shot out of the sky just isn't that big a deal to me given the real adverse events I consider likely to befall at some point. I'm new here and haven't really done anything to support this web site; therefore I don't blame its longtimers from taking what you might call a protective stance.

There is some Political Correctness here, not all of which I subscribe to, but which may have the reason of keeping the place friendly to members for whom such issues are important. I occasionally prefer the "tougher hide" of the time & place I grew up in, yet also realize that time is gone now. Who's sad they took Archie Bunker (1971-1979) off the air anyway? It was a crappy TV sitcom with a slob delivering a lot of Polish jokes, a good example of what the "Opposing Ideologies" forum might have looked like had it existed 45 years ago.

What disturbs me more is that the Archie Bunker mentality still resonates with a large segment of U.S. society, only this is all underground now; not even the blogosphere gives it public billboard. Driving retrogrades out of sight, as PC does, isn't the same as defeating them, even given that control of the language is an important element of the psychological war against imperialism.

As for declining activity, there's only so much one can do on a forum before the avenues of discussion are exhausted and one gets tired of it. Leaving doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the forum; just that participating no longer furthers someone's growth so they move on. Forums age like people do, enjoying finite lifespans; The Labour Standard Engels wrote for went out of print quickly without hurting the big picture.

I've never been a Revolutionary myself in the true sense; no opportunity in the USA to do what Lenin did has arisen and I'm not good at the type of shouting protests that have been possible. The project of building a society according to Leftist principles of any kind, whether anarchism or communism, is tremendously difficult, involving a number of unsolved problems (not to mention beyond the scope of this or any other online community). Experiments and movement activities to date have achieved limited results; further progress will undoubtedly come long after I'm buried. I'm pretty confident the days of capitalism, an inherently unstable system predicated on endless growth and exploitation, are numbered, however.

[PhoenixAsh]

I don't think he was wrong. I already know you don't think he was right. Obviously.

I'm not reading that link (chances are, you didn't either)

So, at BEST, you're both guilty of doing something wrong, of committing the same crime (though, Izvestia has addressed this already, and he is capable of doing so in the future if he so wishes). The important point here is, you, as a mod, shut down a thread over it, over a debate you were involved in, one in which you did the same crime you accuse Izvestia of (again, he can answer for himself on this). That's why I first posted here, noting you're trying to restart the debate (perhaps just to shut it down again).

I have nothing against you pressing Izvestia on a point in an argument you were making, but you shut down the thread where that action was appropriate, and are bringing it up again. Reopen the thread, or stop bringing it up. It's pretty simple. Do as you wish, though. I'm sure you'll continue to think you're right no matter what. If using mod powers helps with that, then more power to you. It just makes you look silly when you bring it up again.

edit: anyways, I'm not replying anymore. I've said all I've had to say. Other users can judge for themselves.

I brought it up?

Did or didn't Izvestia make this post:



There are several cultural issues that are near and dear to liberals where, if you veer even slightly from MSNBC talking points on the forum, you will be fucked hard and suddenly. Meanwhile, there are posters on the forum who are perfectly free to tell developing leftists to vote for or not oppose bourgeois parties and candidates. Some of them are even moderators.

Draw your own conclusions about what this means.

Because if he did then he brought it up and not me. He makes allegations....he needs to substantiate them. He made them here...he made is relevant and me pressing him for it here is a direct result of his actions and because of his actions
is appropriate.


The rest of your points:


1). Read that link two days ago. It is a fucking long ass article. Skipped a part of the graph/figure explanations though because I was on my phone and couldn't find the graph.

The main point why I linked that was because it is an extensive article about how flaming and what is considered flaming is consistently failed to be defined accurately and interpreted inconsistently even by objective third parties. One of the reasons is that what is considered flaming is contextual and varies from sender to receiver.

2). We weren't both doing the same thing. We both flamed. He flamed me. I replied. He started whining about it and complaining. Zero respect from me. If you give then you get. And if you can't handle it then don't start it. So no...we weren't doing the same thing.

3). And yes indeed. I closed the thread over the flaming. As it should have been days ago and you know it. I had wanted to do that two hours earlier but there wasn't any other mod or admin online. So I had a choice. Let it escalate further or close it. It doesn't win a beauty contest and usually we don't close threads we are involved in but the alternative would have been to continue along the mutual flame exchanges and degenerate it further....because neither Izvestia nor me would have given up in that.

4). Izvestia hasn't actually addressed it before now that I am aware of. If he did then I missed it.

[Patchd]

What is this I don't even.

[PhoenixAsh]

There are many other examples to choose from. This just happened to be conveniently at hand and epitomizes the behavior that many, many people have pointed out about your posting proclivities. Heck, even somebody friendly with you on a personal level pointed it out to you in the thread you closed in a tantrum. Your behavior is one of the things that drags the quality of the whole forum down, tbh, especially since you post so much. People will notice I didn't flame you in that thread, while being flamed at least a dozen times. Does anybody wonder why, after no action was taken against you in that thread (and many others), I would suddenly start flaming a little, though not to the same degree that you regularly do, in a thread a year later?

I strongly hope people who have the same question as the OP look at the posting history and arrive at their own answers. Don't trust me or Phoenix. Trust your own two eyes.

I don't care about many, many people. I don't know Tim in real life. And I think your behavior is actually pretty disgusting and a demerit for this forum. And many, many people don't like your style or behavior either.


So let me carefully explain you things by quoting the next post from that 2014 thread in reply to the one you quote:


You will notice that most of these posts are actually posts calling you out on your behaviour...most of these posts I substantiated with quotes of you actually doing what I said you were doing. All of what I said is completely true. Non of it therefore (admittedly except for your last one) actually constitutes anything resembling flaming....except of course posts like this one actually proof that too.

And here is why.

This entire debate you have attacked me over a straw man you created, been strawmanning, continued to straw man. lied, deceived, slandered and weaseld your way through it. You have falsely accused me and other members here of supporting imperialism, called several members unrevolutionary for qualifying imperialism...while qualifying imperialism yourself...and generally being a complete and utter hypocrite...not least of all because of your ad hominem riddled posts.

Which seems to be a reoccurring theme between you and me.

Because low and behold....almost a year later...we are having the same fucking issue....almost verbatim. I can provide more quotes that are simply coming down to exactly the same issue.

I don't MIND you flaming. I don't care. I have told you this before. But when you give, you get. And you accept it.

What I mind is the fucking hypocritical attitude you display when you immediately start whining when you do it and somebody replies with the same. Take some fucking responsibility. That shit you keep doing is dishonest as fuck. You dished out...you got back. And you whined. That to me displays a very untrustworthy attitude in the debate and that means to me you are actually more interested in having the debate escalate to suit a personal agenda than having it to exchange ideas.

And that is on top of the fact that you straw man arguments and misrepresent what is said. Now I don't mind that happening once or twice or when you honestly misunderstand what is being said...but when you continue to do it even when you get a clarification then you are simply not interested in a honest debate. THAT is something I absolutely mind....and you did that in that 2014 thread you quoted and you are still doing it. In fact...in your quote you can see me being very, very annoyed by that simple fact. And you kept doing that over and over and over again.

Yet you don't get infracted, you don't get banned, you don't even get administrative warnings. You don't get moderated in a debate with me. Ever. And I am not posting all over the forum insinuating things about you. You on the other hand...an entirely different matter. You continuously seem to use my mod position as if that allows you the freedom to do whatever the fuck you want. You post your allegations here...and basically every thread since 2013 and when asked you don't substantiate the allegation with quotes that show that was actually being said. This is sad and pathetic. And actually substantiates the idea that you are merely trolling.

So lets be absolutely fucking crystal clear here. You mind being called a circus clown or a fucking idiot....and I mind being called Syriza's legal council or being called a reformist....and I absolutely mind you posting your shit all over the forum in other threads. And I am calling you out on this bullshit. Either put up or shit up.

What I see as insults or take as insults is very different from yours....and Tim's. Tim and you mind being called names. I don't. I mind when you straw man me, or insult my opinion. That is what I see as insulting. You can disagree or argue passionately against it. But I dislike being insulted on it. I don't however feel insulted when you would call me a fucking idiot or moron. You will immediately get it back....but that it part of the "get what you give" issue. YOU don't get to tell me what I should and shouldn't feel insulted about...or that your flaming is lesser. K?

[ChangeAndChance]

OK, can we just have a "Phoenix vs Izvestia flame thread" or something? This thing is so contagious it's spreading and quite frankly, I think I speak for most of us when I say that seeing threads turning into a "you're a reformist POS" "no, I'm not" "yes, you are" "no, I'm not" back and forth spam. Please, both of you need to either calm the fuck down or take this stuff elsewhere (i.e. your own personal thread where you can get catty).

[Gunsmas]

I think I may have opened a can of worms here :laugh:

[RedAnarchist]

I'm closing this thread because it's just turning into a flame war.

Thread closed.