Why did the Warsaw Pact fail?

[Zwatt]

What primarily caused the Warsaw Pact to collapse?

[OnFire]

Primarily bc Gorbachev set it up to fail, he let counterrevolutionary movements happen in all warsaw pact states, especially the most important ones: GDR, Poland and Russia. It is truely a shame the August coup failed and the bourgeouis alcoholic Jelzin came to power. A better leader than Gorbachev would have went with the "Chinese" solution for the CIA sponsored anti-communist protestors and so saved the WP.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Primarily bc Gorbachev set it up to fail, he let counterrevolutionary movements happen in all warsaw pact states, especially the most important ones: GDR, Poland and Russia. It is truely a shame the August coup failed and the bourgeouis alcoholic Jelzin came to power. A better leader than Gorbachev would have went with the "Chinese" solution for the CIA sponsored anti-communist protestors and so saved the WP.

what a crude and thoroughly non-Marxist reading of what happened. "The Warsaw Pact was fine, until one guy came along and messed it up for EVERYONE". Gorbachev may not have been a particularly great leader, but all the flaws which manifested in the late 80s were a long time coming.

It is truly a shame that the post-war USSR set up an unsustainable alliance of statist economies in eastern Europe based on military occupation instead of worker's revolution.

The "Chinese Solution"? You mean becoming an Imperialist capitalist power which extracts surplus value from the workers of the world to pay for the luxuries of Beijing bureaucrats? A country where irresponsible corporate leaders can load warehouses full of explosive and toxic chemicals which explode, killing or poisoning many?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

The lack of flexibility accorded to non-Russian Warsaw Pact states;
The perception amongst Warsaw Pact populations that 'Greater Russia' was overly dominant and that power was centralised in Moscow;
The stagnation and eventual collapse of the economy of the USSR;
Interventions by Soviet troops in Hungary and Czechslovakia in 1956 and 1968;
Pro-capitalist, western propaganda that lured the unfree populations of the Warsaw Pact countries into dreaming about 'freedom' and 'democracy' under capitalism.

Take your pick, I haven't yet decided on which was most important.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

The lack of flexibility accorded to non-Russian Warsaw Pact states;
The perception amongst Warsaw Pact populations that 'Greater Russia' was overly dominant and that power was centralised in Moscow;
The stagnation and eventual collapse of the economy of the USSR;
Interventions by Soviet troops in Hungary and Czechslovakia in 1956 and 1968;
Pro-capitalist, western propaganda that lured the unfree populations of the Warsaw Pact countries into dreaming about 'freedom' and 'democracy' under capitalism.

Take your pick, I haven't yet decided on which was most important.

Nope, none of those had anything to do with it. It was just Gorbachev. All him.

[John Nada]

Primarily bc Gorbachev set it up to fail, he let counterrevolutionary movements happen in all warsaw pact states, especially the most important ones: GDR, Poland and Russia. It is truely a shame the August coup failed and the bourgeouis alcoholic Jelzin came to power. A better leader than Gorbachev would have went with the "Chinese" solution for the CIA sponsored anti-communist protestors and so saved the WP.what a crude and thoroughly non-Marxist reading of what happened. "The Warsaw Pact was fine, until one guy came along and messed it up for EVERYONE". Gorbachev may not have been a particularly great leader, but all the flaws which manifested in the late 80s were a long time coming.OnFire's not entirely wrong, abet possibly by accident.

The USSR under Gorbachev replaced the Brezhnev Doctrine(codified tankyism) with the "Sinatra Doctrine". This was basically the USSR letting the cards fall where they may. Also, since the USSR was the most powerful member of the CoMecon, Gorbachev's "reforms" affected the other members, and the USSR encouraged other members to do similar "reforms". The USSR also encouraged members of the Warsaw Pact and Comecon to take loans(though this started before Gorbachev), and later even join the IMF and World Bank. And as part of an oral agreement, the USSR let the GDR reunite with west Germany in exchange for NATO not expanding into former Warsaw Pact countries.
It is truly a shame that the post-war USSR set up an unsustainable alliance of statist economies in eastern Europe based on military occupation instead of worker's revolution.Now it's an unsustainable alliance of statist economies in Europe based on military occupation instead of a workers' revolution.:lol: Social imperialism of the USSR got replaced by US and German imperialism. "New boss, same as the old boss." Though I wish it was a real proletarian socialist revolution that overthrew those governments, instead of coups that finished off the counterrevolutions.
The "Chinese Solution"? You mean becoming an Imperialist capitalist power which extracts surplus value from the workers of the world to pay for the luxuries of Beijing bureaucrats? A country where irresponsible corporate leaders can load warehouses full of explosive and toxic chemicals which explode, killing or poisoning many?From a Machiavellian perspective, the state-capitalist governments could've done that. Not that it'd be better.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

OnFire's not entirely wrong, abet possibly by accident.

The USSR under Gorbachev replaced the Brezhnev Doctrine(codified tankyism) with the "Sinatra Doctrine". This was basically the USSR letting the cards fall where they may. Also, since the USSR was the most powerful member of the CoMecon, Gorbachev's "reforms" affected the other members, and the USSR encouraged other members to do similar "reforms". The USSR also encouraged members of the Warsaw Pact and Comecon to take loans(though this started before Gorbachev), and later even join the IMF and World Bank. And as part of an oral agreement, the USSR let the GDR reunite with west Germany in exchange for NATO not expanding into former Warsaw Pact countries.

Some Eastern bloc countries were taking loans well before this, and the social movements that toppled these governments already existed. The only reason the Eastern Bloc was taking out such unsustainable loans in the first place was the economic stagnation which had been hanging around since the 60s, less favorable oil markets, and continued military overspending. Perhaps if the Warsaw Pact countries had changed their economic priorities in accordance with long-term productivity and popular needs earlier on, and perhaps if they had adopted a more worker and citizen centered form of economic management and decisionmaking, they might have lasted a little longer.


Now it's an unsustainable alliance of statist economies in Europe based on military occupation instead of a workers' revolution.:lol: Social imperialism of the USSR got replaced by US and German imperialism. "New boss, same as the old boss." Though I wish it was a real proletarian socialist revolution that overthrew those governments, instead of coups that finished off the counterrevolutions.Yes, but at least the new boss doesn't drape himself in a red flag and try to fool everyone into thinking he's a real communist. At least Merkel doesn't go around calling herself a "communist", unlike Honecker. Everyone knows she's the class enemy.

Really, the revolution would get rid of all of these folks. It's a shame that the progress made by the Soviet workers and their sacrifices were a failure, but it is what it is. I wish the nostalgia wing of the contemporary Communist movement would just grow up and seriously analyze why the USSR failed, instead of just blaming Gorby for the world's problems as if the system was just fine before him, or at worst needed "reforms".

[Hatshepsut]

This thread basically duplicates another current thread, at
http://www.revleft.com/vb/world-revolution-ussr-t193919/index.html

Over there it was blaming or praising the August Putsch. The USSR and WP weren't really separable from one another in terms of fate; Hungary's opening its Austrian border and the 1989 Round Table in Poland apparently spelled Gorbachev's political demise. I'm not that sad to see it gone, though look what's replaced it.