Tradesman based "charity" services

[Hezadukii92]

(Was not sure where to post this, this is not a political idea nor is t meant to be as such, figured here or DIY)

Hi all,

I used to belong to this forum years ago in the Che Lives years when I was in my teens and had tonnes of free time, I stopped posting due to work and everything else. Unfortunately I could not remember my username or the email I used for sign up so I had to go ahead and create a new account.

I had an interesting discussion today with a friend regarding general hassle in life for working people, my friend had problems with his house and the cost of repairs is going to be sizeable. We started discussing the trades and jobs within the trades and how important these skills are :

Electricians
Plumbers
Joiners & Carpenters
Welders
Mechanics

The list goes on but you get the point.

We both either have or had relatives in the trades and we discussed how much of a relief in life it is when you have a cousin or uncle who can fix your electrics, fix your house, sort your boiler out etc.

I thought about how most charities are ineffective and problematic and how community organising has largely been similarly useless in many places. Because someone giving people short term monetary enhancement or other shortsighted schemes does little to offer real effective help.

I said if people within the trades could organise for both community services and "charitable" solidarity work how much more of an effect that could have. I know charity is not the solution to the systemic problem of inequality but that does not mean it is better to not try and do anything. Some examples we discussed were:

Housing situations in rural areas of the developing world - The money pumped into ineffective solutions to easily fixable problems is astounding. A team of tradesmen comprised of electricians, joiners and construction workers with the right logistical support could build permanent housing and buildings for essential services like hospitals and schools.

Local community services - As previously mentioned anyone with relatives in the trades knows how much of a life saver it can be to have free labour done on essentials like having someone fix your car, repair a busted roof or simply lay down your carpet saving you money so your kid can eat something that same day. This isn't political or about building something other than a service of working class people for working class people.

Refugee and emergency response aid work - Government funded charity and aid relief often end up using generated money on private companies who overcharge for basic and under qualified staff to build rapid mass shelter areas and refugee crisis centres. A self organised group based on free labour from its volunteer tradesmen and money from donations for supplies would mean incredibly effective and non profit based responses to genuine human demand for emergency construction and settlement.

Think if a team of just a hundred tradesmen were organised on the Syrian/Turkish border and how that would of offered immense help to the thousands of fleeing refugees of our fellow workers fleeing a horrible situation.

Or think about how quick-construct living quarters for the migrants at Calais or for those arriving in Greece would help immigrants who often end up on the streets, forced back into warzones or having to sell themselves for somewhere to stay.

Basically I recently gave up my job and got a part time one in order to be able to go and do an into course at a local college at the advice of my uncle who is currently in the trades himself. I will then be embarking on an apprenticeship as is the only real way to gain real access to a real route to work and connections within the trades themselves.

I am doing this because it is something I want to do and am passionate about. Some of my relatives were involved in the trades during the height of the labour movements and helped immigrants and other people get work and organise and I love the tradition of that type of solidarity within the trades and the benefits that offers.

Once I have completed my apprenticeship and have gained some experience I will be looking at starting something based along the lines of voluntary community service, things like offering free labour days on sundays or any days I can where I will complete jobs for free only charging for materials used and setting up a network via social media for other tradesmen to join and donation links for the purchasing of materials so we could offer truly free services to people who really need them.

I have relatives who I am sure would be on board, some in other nations who could start local branches of a big network. I know this probably sounds kinda far fetched but I am very passionate about this, not just the doing something positive aspect but this direction I am taking in general.

I would be interested in hearing some of your thoughts regarding the idea and from tradesmen on their feelings about the subject.

** Please no lectures about how you can't abolish capitalism through charity or any other obvious stuff. This is not about that, just about doing something positive i am passionate about **

[Hezadukii92]

You can't abolish capitalism through charity. Obvious.<br /><br />What was your old name?

Did you read what I said ? Obviously you can not. However you can simply help other working people and create a support system for yourself. I know you are not a worker, have no experience in the workforce elt alone manual labour, you have no bills to pay because your parents pay them for you so you could not understand simply looking to establish a support system like many local workers have done, some are terming them "life unions".

One person is a great mechanic, another is a master mason, the other guy is a joiner, someone else is involved in local producing harvesting. Connections like these, especially in working class neighbourhoods can mean the difference between missing payments and not being able to afford the rent and having a brother or sister help you out as a form of mutual aid.


Also the stalking my posts is a tad bit awkward, seems sad, I would advise you stop.

[John Nada]

Did you read what I said ? Obviously you can not. However you can simply help other working people and create a support system for yourself. I know you are not a worker, have no experience in the workforce elt alone manual labour, you have no bills to pay because your parents pay them for you so you could not understand simply looking to establish a support system like many local workers have done, some are terming them &quot;life unions&quot;.

One person is a great mechanic, another is a master mason, the other guy is a joiner, someone else is involved in local producing harvesting. Connections like these, especially in working class neighbourhoods can mean the difference between missing payments and not being able to afford the rent and having a brother or sister help you out as a form of mutual aid.


Also the stalking my posts is a tad bit awkward, seems sad, I would advise you stop.I can post. No rule against that. Better than other threads.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/ch01.htm This shit is nothing new, though I don't see this as much different than say homes for humanity. Also who's going to pay them?

[#FF0000]

I think it's an interesting idea and that things like this are kind of necessary for a movement. The difficult thing, though, would be keeping it from just ending up as some do-gooder charity thing with no politics. It's a line that a lot of initiatives like this walk. Other than that I think the biggest issue would be getting people who work in the trades to join in on this. In my (limited) experience, American tradespeople really exemplify that "fuck you got mine" attitude in general.


Also who's going to pay them?

You didn't read the post.

[John Nada]

You didn't read the post.Yes, I did. There's already charities like this. It's damn near the same as Habitat for Humanity. Just swiped "sweat equity" for "free labour".

[Sewer Socialist]

How would this work with people whose labor skill is useless in isolation, or useless without access to means of production? ie, a truck driver who doesn't own their own truck, or someone who works assembling autos or whatever? many of the people who could use this help have no way to reciprocate. And it seems likely that those who could are already overworked and unwilling to work more beyond that for free.

[Hezadukii92]

I think it's an interesting idea and that things like this are kind of necessary for a movement. The difficult thing, though, would be keeping it from just ending up as some do-gooder charity thing with no politics. It's a line that a lot of initiatives like this walk. Other than that I think the biggest issue would be getting people who work in the trades to join in on this. In my (limited) experience, American tradespeople really exemplify that "fuck you got mine" attitude in general.



You didn't read the post.

It would basically just be a collective of like minded working class people coming together like any other working class club or organisation from skinhead groups Mc's (motorcycle clubs), labour clubs etc.

The difference with it being around tradesmen though is that it offers genuine working class mutual aid in a meaningful way. Things start small but just like boot makers joining together and buying the original Dr Marten/Solovair factory and selling their own made in England boots.

Think of a unofficial club where local tradesmen get together, they could do cheap work the community, use subs and donations for a clubhouse, create a natural monopoly within a community and use the money from having the trades on lockdown to fund anything from getting local boot makers to start a factory producing Dr Marten type workers boots, taking on local people for apprenticeships and then partners in a tradesman cooperative sharing the work and making sure members all get enough work to earn a decent wage etc.

Basically this thing world start small, really small, and it might never get bigger than a few guys helping one another and their immediate community out. But it could create something bigger than that.

I will put more focus on it once I am further into the process.

[Hezadukii92]

How would this work with people whose labor skill is useless in isolation, or useless without access to means of production? ie, a truck driver who doesn't own their own truck, or someone who works assembling autos or whatever? many of the people who could use this help have no way to reciprocate. And it seems likely that those who could are already overworked and unwilling to work more beyond that for free.

It wouldn't be that kind of logicstical large scale thing. You would be looking at basics first and foremost and would be relying on family and friends who have trades and are interested in the idea.

For example say I am a joiner, my Uncle Keith is an electrician. My mate is a plumber. I have a cousin who is a mechanic. Not only do you have a social club founded where you have mutual aid in most aspects of your life from getting your car fixed, having one of the guys do your new lights and wiring system etc.

But from there you have possibilities for cooperation, basically community owned and funded businesses once they get to a certain scale. As I said above I am not going into some pointless plan because it isn't anywhere near time for that but I am interested in it and have talked to friends and family who are tradesmen about it and I have had some interesting conversations about possibilities.

[Hezadukii92]

Yes, I did. There's already charities like this. It's damn near the same as Habitat for Humanity. Just swiped "sweat equity" for "free labour".

It isn't a charity, it is workers simply joining together into an independent body parallel to the state like they do in MC's and other social groups clubs etc. Not some kind of commune or charity but just a sort of mutual aid that could offer opportunities to do more than just help one another on a small scale.

See above for the broad idea but as I said no point going in detail about something that is not happening yet, i just thought it would be interesting to discuss. If you don't ant to no one if compelling you to.

[John Nada]

It isn't a charity, it is workers simply joining together into an independent body parallel to the state like they do in MC's and other social groups clubs etc. Not some kind of commune or charity but just a sort of mutual aid that could offer opportunities to do more than just help one another on a small scale.

See above for the broad idea but as I said no point going in detail about something that is not happening yet, i just thought it would be interesting to discuss. If you don't ant to no one if compelling you to.No, this is a self-serving thread to cover your other racist posts. You're trying to make yourself look like a good worker, and with your attitude you probably be corporate's favorite. You're not a laborer. You're not a proletarian. Not that I give a fuck or think that's a bad thing, but you're full of shit. This is unoriginal shit.

[#FF0000]

Yes, I did. There's already charities like this. It's damn near the same as Habitat for Humanity. Just swiped "sweat equity" for "free labour".

Yeah but where they don't exist or aren't meeting needs, I think socialist organizations can and should organize things like this ourselves.

[Sewer Socialist]

So it's for petty-bourgeois tradesmen only; owners of enough capital to do this by themselves, and probably the people who need it the least.

[John Nada]

It would basically just be a collective of like minded working class people coming together like any other working class club or organisation from skinhead groups Mc's (motorcycle clubs), labour clubs etc.Skinheads are fucking working class now?
The difference with it being around tradesmen though is that it offers genuine working class mutual aid in a meaningful way. Things start small but just like boot makers joining together and buying the original Dr Marten/Solovair factory and selling their own made in England bootsStrange how you use a brand that's popular with skinheads as a positive example. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/20/1379034/-Dr-Martens-Promotes-Skinhead-Connection

I'm not going to help you set up your little fake-ass bonehead gang.

[Hezadukii92]

Skinheads are fucking working class now?Strange how you use a brand that's popular with skinheads as a positive example. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/20/1379034/-Dr-Martens-Promotes-Skinhead-Connection

I'm not going to help you set up your little fake-ass bonehead gang.

You are a moron who is now staling me weirdly, again I might add. Yes skinheads are working class, they are about as working class as you can possibly get.

Skinhead culture is a mixture of working class white blue collar and the influence of Jamaican doc workers and Ska. Seriously pick up a book or realise you are a kid and need to actual;y learn things and you don't know that much.

[Hezadukii92]

So it's for petty-bourgeois tradesmen only; owners of enough capital to do this by themselves, and probably the people who need it the least.

I told you it isn't political it is a way to help one another and in a broader context your community. It isn't middle class people with pare cash doing charity. As I am not well off and I am a worker I can't afford that, neither can other workers, which means the best thing is a social collective where e can pool labour, resources and create parallel systems of reliance as opposed to just the state.

[Hezadukii92]

No, this is a self-serving thread to cover your other racist posts. You're trying to make yourself look like a good worker, and with your attitude you probably be corporate's favorite. You're not a laborer. You're not a proletarian. Not that I give a fuck or think that's a bad thing, but you're full of shit. This is unoriginal shit.

Do you understand what marxism is? What class is? I have since leaving school years ago had the following jobs:

Kitchen staff
Manual labourer (construction & assembly)
Retail

What was my elation to the means of production? I am a worker. Now I know you are mad because I told you I don't respect your opinion because 1. You are a kid 2. You are a student and 3. You have not had life experience to form consistent opinions yet.

Just because you are not a worker does not mean you can't have valid thoughts but yours are so over the top cliched and faux radical it makes me cringe because it makes me think of myself and other people at 14 who went though that phase already.

[Rudolf]

I told you it isn't political it is a way to help one another and in a broader context your community

This is where i get disappointed, i think it ought to be overtly political. With a group of skilled labourers there's a hell of a lot you could do. Failing any sort of imaginative thing even something as simple as seizing empty buildings, making them habitable and opening them up as community spaces, homeless shelters etc and using this as a basis for further political activity would be really useful. There'll be the inevitable response from the state but if you've played your cards right you could draw a lot on the wider community for its defense.

[Decolonize The Left]

No, this is a self-serving thread to cover your other racist posts. You're trying to make yourself look like a good worker, and with your attitude you probably be corporate's favorite. You're not a laborer. You're not a proletarian. Not that I give a fuck or think that's a bad thing, but you're full of shit. This is unoriginal shit.

Verbal warning. Please PM me if you need explanation as to why this post, the following posts, are against the rules.