john brown project

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

tell me about john brown. Anyone? Please.

[Red, Green, and Gold]

John Brown was a rabid, "bible-beating" abolitionist from Kansas. In 1859, he, his sons, and several other likeminded people travelled from Kansas to Harper's Ferry, Virginia. A major federal arsenal was located at Harper's Ferry, and Brown's plan was to seize the arsenal and arm the nearby slaves. He then planned to incite an armed slave revolution, in which the slaves would kill their masters and assume control of the United States -- or at least the South.
The government heard of Brown's plans, and sent Robert E. Lee (then a Union general) to take Brown and his followers captive as soon as they reached Harper's Ferry. Brown had gone too far - his planned attack on the arsenal constituted treason against the United States. Brown and his followers were hung soon after their capture.
Tensions had been rising between the North and South on the issue of slavery, and the hanging of a leading abolitionist was a major victory for the South and slavery. Many of the Northern abolitionists were angry, increasing the tensions between the North and the South.

Hope that's enough of an answer for you, man.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

thanx

[Red, Green, and Gold]

No problem. :)

Here's a pretty good site (http://www.iath.virginia.edu/jbrown/master.html) for you, for all it matters.

[Jimmie Higgins]

John Brown was the first person killed by a federal exaccution (I'm pretty sure but not 100%, so don't cite me... or really anything on the internet for that matter unless the material on the internet has some good sources itself). John brown was very religious but so were many of the abolitionists. Don't believe your textbooks when they claim John Brown was crazy, this is just white supremacist lies because to their mind, why would any white man want to fight and die for black people. John Brown was radical but not crazy and he met with many promantent people of the time - which would have been hard if he was really crazy. John Brown fought in the Kansass insurrection that happened when congress compromised over slavery (kansass-nebraska act) and let the territory vote on weather it would be slave or free. Dureing these battles southerners came into the state and harrassed the local small-farmers and tried to scare them away from voting and they even attacked the farmers who were abolitionists or even slightly anti-slavery. So John Brown gathered some other abolitionists and armed small farmers to fight back against the pro-slvery pogrom against abolitionists.

And then Brown came up with the plan to start a huge slave revolt which would avalance and cause the south to become a separate nation run by ex-slaves like in Hati.

John Brown's statement at his exaccution: "Now, if it is deemed necissary that I should forfit my life for the furtherences of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further witht the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I say, let it be done"

John Brown's eluogy by Henry David Thoreau: "It seems as if no man has ever died in America before, for in order to die you must first have lived. These men in teaching us how to die, have at the same time taught us how to live."

Victor Hugo: Hanging John Brown, "...will open a latent fissure that will finally split the Union asunder. The punishment of John Brown may consolidate slavery in Virginia, but it will certainly shatter the American Democracy. You preserve your shame but kill your glory"

[Rastafari]

John Brown isn't looked upon too highly today (people want nothing to do with "terrorism"), but he is one of my heroes. Brown firmly beleived (unlike most abolitionists) that Whites and Blacks were equal. Brown was willing to sacrifice his life to promote this cause, like a real romantic should. Everybody in his age was afraid of him, because he wasn't fit to simply sit by and critique the things that were happening around him. He wanted to change them by action.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USASbrown3.jpg

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

thank all of you

[Rastafari]

which reminds me, this year is the 50th anniversary of Brown v. the Board of Education

[Hampton]

http://www.digisys.net/users/hootie/brown/Girl.jpg

[Rastafari]

wow. good photo Hampton.
in fact, the whole court ruling reminds me of a little problem we had a long time ago about an hour away from where I live. In Louisville Kentucky, which is really a sore spot on the state itself (except for the Annual Big Lebowski Festival and What-have-you). Anyway, the schools in the ghettos were obviously not equal to those in the rich white neighborhoods, and to try and bring every one into the same school system, a new method was "thought" up. Instead of marginally improving the schools in poorer areas, the genius city council thought that it could just start busing a few African-American students to the rich/suburban schools, and taking, ideally, as many white kids to the bad schools. Of course, the urban school systems would be helped a little, but not really much at all. So anyway, kids would have to wake up bright and early to get on a bus and be shipped to the other side of the city, which could take as long as a couple of hours. This obviously wasn't too popular at all with White or Black parents, so the council was forced to go back to the old way without marginally improving the situation.
A Pulitzer prize-winning photograph was taken somewhere along the way, which "proved" that Louisville's whites were all racists and opposed to change. While this may have been the case with quite a few of the poor fools, the cause that these people were protesting was taken up by both sides. Bad City Planning Fucked everybody over, but "just happened to" screw the blacks over more. I think that they probably predicted the whole thing and saw it as a way to hold people back from realizing their true potential, but...

I can't find Das Photo.

[Hampton]

Yea, 1976 busing idea that went horribly wrong. It's wrong but the fact that how good schools are based on economic status and location is still around, be in Jefferson County of not which, I guess, is the story of America in a way. I gots more to say but will have to say it at a later date.

Here's a picture I found, from www.ket.org It's ridiclious the amount to sites that mention the photos won the prize, but, like none have any of them. Here's one:

http://www.ket.org/content/civilrights/images/gal20_damaged_buses.jpg

[Rastafari]

Here's a picture I found, from www.ket.org It's ridiclious the amount to sites that mention the photos won the prize, but, like none have any of them.
Indeed. Pulitzer.org doesn't have shit, and neither does newseum.com. The only two places I thought to visit. Thanks for the pic.


. It's wrong but the fact that how good schools are based on economic status and location is still around, be in Jefferson County of not which, I guess, is the story of America in a way.
Yeah, in Cincinnati (or Detroit, Philidelphia, anywhere), some of the worst public school systems in the country are literally a 30 minute drive from some of the best.

[Hampton]

It took me a while to get back, but, here I am. You said you live like an hour or so where the whole fandango went down, right? What's it like now, any better? I mean like obviously you weren't born yet when it all happened, but, growing up was there this silent legacy about it or did people talk about it and how the school systems are any better or worse after the concept of busing failed. Must be intresting to be so close to a part of the civil rights struggle.

--Hammie

[Rastafari]

well, the whole nation is really a "civil rights struggle," and always will be over the race issue or, if we ever move past that, something just as foolish. But anyway, I do know that Louisville has one of the highest comparitive crime rates in the country, and it is literally a divided city. On one side (the East side, I think), you have UofL, the Hospitals, the Suburbs, Louisville Slugger Museum, etc. On the other side, you have smoke-belching factories, railroad lines, and housing developments. It is really strange crossing from one half to the other. Going from a gray and irregular neighborhood with billboards advertising for beer and adoption to the picket fence half with signs trying to sell cars and public radio stations.

As for people talking about it or discussing it up here, I hear very little. but then again, I hear nothing about the state of civil rights in this country from anybody anyway. I guess people think that some kind of status quo has been reached.

[Hampton]

I see that a lot around here also, probally in a lot of big cities where gentrification draws boundaries of where they want people to live according to income or race or both. And where they tear down the slums and build high rent places and push people into further poverty. It's the American way I think, as long as they don't start sleepin on the street where the GAP is I don't care.

[Rastafari]

yeah, as stupid as this sounds, the history I am most interested in studying is contemporary history. That's what I'd like to end up researching/teaching at least. Infusing it with all kinds of bad opinions.

[Hampton]

If that's stupid, count me in. If I had a choice I'd much rather teach the last 50 years of U.S. history than anything else, but, curriculum dictates doing the whole history, lies and deception included, to the kids. Of course, nobody said you had to follow that. Wink wink. But I think it's an important job that nobody wants, teaching annoying teenagers and getting paid little for it isn't glamorious at all. And I think the people who do do it and put effort into not just spewing the same lies and not criticizing the system that employs them is doing themselves and those who they teach an injustice.

[Rastafari]

exactly, man. If I can't be teaching contemporary/social history, then I'm definately going to look into teaching African History. Some of the most advanced cultures on the face of the planet, and no research on them at all.
Where else could you find people living in Matriarchal Societies?
Historians looking at the French Revolution and the Civil War and that are fine, but they are a dime a dozen. Only problem is, African History isn't taught anywhere.

[Hampton]

See, now you're turning me on talking like this. But seriously, you're 143% right about it now being taught anywhere, especially in high schools, save except for one month where kids learn about a few token personalities. There's nothing about the situation now and how to connect the history that is being taught with today and how to prevent the same shit from happening again and how to fix the problems that were brought upon by the past.

It's criminal there ought to be a law.

[Rastafari]

I think it'd be interesting to have a course taught (college-wise, maybe high school too) in American History, from a specifically Black viewpoint. Or from the side of any minority, really, but especially African Americans.
What really gets me excited to think about is what kind of guest speakers a professor could get in to talk with his students.


kids learn about a few token personalities
and, with no disrespect who kids are taught are the tenants of Black culture and salvation, the same Dozen people are pulled off the shelves every year. Kids are almost taught during black history month that Martin Luther King, Jackie Robinson, and Louie Armstong (and maybe 5 or 6 more)are the only people who have been Black and done anything at all for the world. At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot (which I probably have done already), black history month as it is taught now does as much harm as good.

The best thing to do during each February would be to take each kid individually, sit them down, and say:"Listen, 95% of how Blacks are portrayed on your tv, your radio, your magazines if FUCKING BULLSHIT, junior."
Barring rational solutions, the next best thing would be to maybe integrate the many great African Americans into the whole year's teachings.

[pandora]

Do it! Become a history teacher, what's stopping you?

[Rastafari]

I am, don't worry ;)

[Hampton]

I hate using quotes but I'm all absent minded today and don't want to get off track


I think it'd be interesting to have a course taught (college-wise, maybe high school too) in American History, from a specifically Black viewpoint. Or from the side of any minority, really, but especially African Americans.
What really gets me excited to think about is what kind of guest speakers a professor could get in to talk with his students.

I had a course kinda like that, it was called African American literature and what it did, it was cut up into two courses. The first was set in the slavery period and we read a bunch of slave narratives and broke some misconceptions about slavery and that time period. But, like if you were doing this course, which I think needs to be done, I'd think it would be a good idea to start with narratives, giving the first hand account of what happened instead of what someone who wrote a textbook says it was like to make it a more personal experience.

Like around a year ago Ramona Africa, of MOVE, came to the school I go to and talked about her house being bombed and the MOVE 9 her imprisoned brothers and sisters. And you’d think having someone who survived COINTELPRO and all that shit would change some people’s perspectives, but, when leaving you’d hear some people saying stuff like ‘If you don’t like America you can leave” and all the usual bullshit. It’s kind of upsetting and really funny at the same time.


and, with no disrespect who kids are taught are the tenants of Black culture and salvation, the same Dozen people are pulled off the shelves every year. Kids are almost taught during black history month that Martin Luther King, Jackie Robinson, and Louie Armstong (and maybe 5 or 6 more)are the only people who have been Black and done anything at all for the world. At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot (which I probably have done already), black history month as it is taught now does as much harm as good.

It can do a lot of good and a lot of bad, depending on how it’s used. I think the way the month is used know it does bad when you’re only teaching biographies about people and not going deeper into what they wanted to change in society and if that change has happened or what will it take for it to happen, I don’t think a lot of people do that today, so I think you’re right and you’re not sounding like an idiot, you’re making much more sense that you or I know.

If I were to teach it today, it would be more centered around what’s happening today and how the cop who shot that kid in Bed Sty gets off with not being charged with anything and David Clayton Hill gets convicted of shooting a cop is sentenced to die in March and how putting they’re literally putting a price on black life and what is that saying to the kids and present an open dialogue to the kids and what they think and how they feel and what they want to do about it. Run on sentence at it’s finest.


The best thing to do during each February would be to take each kid individually, sit them down, and say:"Listen, 95% of how Blacks are portrayed on your tv, your radio, your magazines if FUCKING BULLSHIT, junior."
Barring rational solutions, the next best thing would be to maybe integrate the many great African Americans into the whole year's teachings.

Exactly, teach the history and as you pass through periods bring up the unknown elements in history that they’re weren’t taught before. That’s where I think Howard Zinn’s “People’s History” would make a great teaching tool and I would push it in the face of every student in hopes that they would read it. All kids, regardless of gender and race and probably some teachers too.

[Rastafari]

Yeah. The major problem with U.S. history as it is taught at levels are the hundreds of little peices of "Folklore" that teachers feel obligated to insert into their lessons. If you could even just teach a nation's history without any opinion (and present facts as facts) or need for patriotism, it'd be a good start.

[Hampton]

Tis radical indeed, I wonder how long before we got fired for teachign such truths...