Psychology's Use

[hazard]

Can't remmeber if I discussed this already. Will find some update links ASAP.

The primary function is to generate capital. Directly through the indoctrination of this "field" as a post secondary discipline, through diagnosing and force feeding people expensive medications which are manufactured and sold for profit, by running and conducting psyhciatric treatment facilities ALSO for profit. Indirectly by drugging the population, ala BRAVE NEW WORLD, so they can be more productive, less emotional and throughtful and able to generate capital for the capitalist masters who rule their lives, all of our lives, like the slaves they make us. Indirectly in a secondary phase is to isolate and torture, denegrate and ridicule those identified as having an ability to incite and influence people into rejecting the capitalist smokescreen as it exists as an active delusion to force people into a lifetime of mandatory labour. As such, those who are able to penetrate the smokescreen and identify the problems of society are labelled as having an "illness" under the psychological interpretation of reality.

In other words, psychology's use is to convince people that the capitalist version of reality is the correct one. This version, of course, is not the one where a minute portion of the population controls an incredibly disproportionate level of the wealth through forcing a lifetime of mandatory labour, also known as slavery. The capitalist version of reality is the one where we are free. How are we free? We are free to buy one of a dozen brands of soft drinks, a hundred types of fast food restaurants and watch a million different television stations. And all of these so called freedoms are all telling us the exact same thing, that we are free! We are free! However, this version of reality, the LIE that the capitalists force us into believing, is as about as believable as the material from which it is constructed. How many discarded fast food cola containers and aisles of boxed cereal will it take for people to realize tha this so called freedom is a rather hastily constructed trap that may have been effected fifty years ago in a world STILL cowed into submission under the constant threat of war and early death. However, in today's world, this idiotic trap is as meaningless as it is insulting.

Psychology's job, its use, is to force a modern form of forcing, or cowing people, into submission. The most "popular" psyhcological "illnesses" these days seem to be a form of depression. Why are people depressed? Psychology does not atempt to answer this question as it effects the population, in an accurate and general sense. No, they, as is a component of selling the lie, focus entirely upon the individual. Is there anything less capitalist than this? Clearly, it is a simple process for a shrink to isolate events within a person's past and attamept to piece together some sort of rag tag "reason" why they are suffering from this illness ( emotion ), and then force feed them medication. All for the purpose of generating capital. The shrink gets paid. The drug company gets paid. The factory where the depressed person works generates more capital. And the individual is denied access to this emotion, and when droves of people are being forced to take emotional suppressing drugs, one has to wonder WHY nobody has attempted to prove that our soceity is in complete self destruct mode. Those who attempt to place blame where it is due are diagnosed with a seperate set of illnesses that range from psychosis to schizophrenia, and are shunned and isolated from society as well. All, once more, to protect the LIE as it is presented by capitalism. Done for profit, too.

In order for this method of protecting capitalism as a capital generating mode of production, the basic population intelligence type is taken as a factor. All at this level or beneath it are taken to fall for the lie, that is, watch their TV, eat their fast food, work, sleep, fuck and die. Within this level are the components of psychology themselves. Too stupid to see what they are, which are those who serve their capitalist masters like blind mice, used to frighten the population at whispers and shadows and claim to have no knowledge of what they do. For if a component of psychology were in fact intelliegent enough to understand that they are involved in a fraud so vast and sickening that their life, as it serves only to replay and reproduce the lies of society like a scratched record skipping on a needle, would hold even less value than the so called "crazies" they are ordered to ostracize and label with as many different psychological ailmenst as possible while pumping them full of drugs so they can manufacture all the worthless products necessary to keep the majority of the population "happy" with their lot in life. The average intelligence employs a tactic known as REVERSE INSANITY ( thank the foofighters for that phrase ). This is where the psychology field, blind to this process, label a person as having an "illness" while the rest of the population behaves in according to the symptoms of that "illness". This effect furthur compounds the problem. So, taking depression again, the cattle herd under reverse insanity, would go out of their way to make the depressed person feel sad since they know that this person is depressed. Naturally, the depressed person can only become more depressed as a result of this. The "illness" at this point is clearly more synthetic than it is an accurate portrayal of a person's so called problem, and also effects the population as a whole rather than the individual in question, in isolation from society.

The cataloguing and branding of people wh present a threat to capitalism is the only use of psychology. The people who are components within the field of psychology are lead to believe that they are protecting society from insanity are far too idiotic to realize what they really are. Tools used to sell the illusion, the delusion of capitalism. The goal of capitalism is to produce capital. Psychology protects this goal in two ways. One through increasng productivity and two by preventing people from presenting threats to the now outdated and self destructing mode of production. Material cannot be any substitute for real value, real worth, real feeling and really undertsnading reality for what it is. Psychology's only use is to sell and force people into believing the capitalists version of reality, by any means necessary. It is about time we turned the tables on this field and force them to see reality as it really is. By whatever means we ahve available. Pelt the psycholgists with their mind numbing drugs! Bash their brains with their thousand page textbooks that do nothing but redefine EMOTIONS as ILLNESSESS! Chase them around like the sheep they are, for as long as they bleat the ba ba ba-ing that is the lie that capitalism attempts to sell them, and us, we are suckers and idiots for believing them.

[Individual]

Didn't quite read it all.. Well, not even past the first sentence... Little long..

However you are talking about Psycology as in counseling? Not as in the study of the mind. Correct?

[hazard]

im talking psychology as a tool used to subjegate the massess

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Absolute drivel not worthy of anyone's time.

Wake up Hazard.

[hazard]

wake up?

fuck off

your post is less absolute drivel than it is extreme stupidity

my attempt to wake YOU up is answered with what? the same claim with no support

way to go geist, way to go

[Zorio]

Obviously you've never actually studied psychology and are going on the views portrayed in the media. I'm currently taking a class in Developmental Psychology, care to explain how learning the various life stages and how we change between them is brainwashing people into agreeing with capitalism?

The goal of psychology is to use the empirical method in order to better understand the human mind. Not all psychology is done in the form of councelling, a lot is done in labs around the world. Very little of psychology deals with prescription drugs and assisting people who are "crazy". Much of it is neuroscience, social interaction, the study of culture, self-image, the list goes on.

Yours is a rant written out of ignorance. Better luck next time.

[hazard]

zorro:

like what the fuck do you mean by luck? by luck my fingers randomly hit all the keys in the correct sequence to spell out all of those words?

through studying people at various stages in life, psychology is better able to enact different methods of population control by increasing the effectiveness of standard control methods. such as TV and sports. you are correct in that I did focus upon how psychology encourages the ostracism of the intellectual elite and socially majestic. you are incorrect if you think I failed to mention all the other components of psychology.

these components are, mainly, upholding the CAPITALIST DEFINITION of REALITY. the lie. this is why ALL the fucking studies and case reports and books are written. simply to identify what capitalism has defined as reality so as to keep those who exist in opposition to it as clearly identifiable as possible. call these people, um, insane.

[peaccenicked]

Psychology is not intrinsically ideological eg colour blindness has no class basis. However, the use of psychology or psychiatry can be manipulative and by implication have ideological underpinnings. This would be a misuse of psychology which undoubtedly is the content of many forms of marketing including what is a good practice within the overly medicated area of mental health. The issues are not black and white.

[hazard]

I disagree

the whole purpose of psychology is ONLY to sell, or approximate, what is to be considered the applicable version of reality within any capitalist society. sort of like a bunch of cassette tapes all playing the same music. those involved in the field, or with any knowledge, are given this "tape" which defines for them HOW they should perceive reality. that way, through comparisons that are necessary for capitalism to function ( such as I have MORE or LESS than that person, or, I am MORE or LESS able to function under the current version of reality as it is replicated by those in the psychology field ), reality is given a substance that need not exist otherwise.

the only version of the psychology "tape" that plays on endless repeat is the one that broadcasts "freedom", and especially the so called freedom to choose as it pertains to brand selection. of course, part of this "tape" includes what to do with people who see through this smokescreen and such people are only free to choose between name and generic brand mind control medication so that the idiots within the psychology field who endlessly repeat their moronic and failing version of reality can actually effect those who reject it. through use of poison that effectively disables any emotion or reasoning ability.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

the whole purpose of psychology is ONLY to sell, or approximate, what is to be considered the applicable version of reality within any capitalist society.

Psycology can hardly be simply a tool for sell a certain view of society. First of all, psychologists are not working their patients toward a capitalist view of society as such as a way of putting their patients into a healthy state of mind.



sort of like a bunch of cassette tapes all playing the same music. those involved in the field, or with any knowledge, are given this "tape" which defines for them HOW they should perceive reality.

Well we all view reality subjectively of course but there is a general objectivity needed in order to understand the world. If we all percieve reality in wildly different ways then how the hell do we get things done? Yes some genius' will view reality is a different way but that's what makes them different, the majority of us see it in the mundane capitalist reality that it is and after the revolution we will see it in the mundane socialist reality that it will be.



that way, through comparisons that are necessary for capitalism to function ( such as I have MORE or LESS than that person, or, I am MORE or LESS able to function under the current version of reality as it is replicated by those in the psychology field ), reality is given a substance that need not exist otherwise.

Hmmm, thats actually intetresting but blaming psychology on convincing people of capitalism etc. seems a bit harsh. For example so few people when you think about it actually go to them that surely it would be pointless to go to such effort.



Hazard I don't like arguing with you because you never accept anybody else's points and conclude oddly enough that you are some form of genius which your inability to understand grammar and spelling disproves on its own surely.

[hazard]

in order

first para: a healthy state of mind, as you phrased it, is measured by what is conisdered average. an average state of mind is the eat, sleep, fuck mentality spirnkled with the occasional vacation, thatre trip and dickweed hobby like hunting or knitting. the actual capitalist view is that all of these are done and measured according to the accumulation of and generation of capital, however, in order to be healthy, all of these cannot be seen except as simply living, or passing time, or having fun. psychology makes sure people don't see anything but this LIE, that going to a movie is having fun and not a ridiculous cash money trap to generate profit.

second para: can you make any less sense? what the fuck are you talking about? you almost had me when you mentioned genius, right, but then you stopped making sense all over again. subjectivity and objectivity in a general world sense. clarity. how does that sound?

third para: gibberish

final para:I would accept someone else's point if they had one. you don't. understand "grammar and spelling". fuck are you dumb. which makes me, by comparison, a genius! now go and look up some more dead poets and say I'm not as good as them. fuckwad.

[LSD]

Hazard,

Not everything is ideological.

Of course psychology can be used as a tool of oppression, so can most aspects of society if so geared.


But I fail to see what it is you are proposing as an alternative?

I don't know if you have ever studies any psychology, but if so you can hardly deny the fact that there are valid mental illnesses.

And your idea that we should just "accept" these diseases and different "realities" is insulting to the people who are actually suffering. Tell a patient who has recovered from a Major Depressive Disorder that they are now worse than before, tell them that they have just been indoctrinated by the agents of capitalism.

Without psychology should we just let these people suffer?

Should we let them be miserable and in pain because some psychologists could be espousing a certain ideological perspective?

It's like abandoning medicine, because it can be used to abuse and oppress.


Psychology is not about enforcing what a "movie" is or deciding what "hobbies" you have. It's about treating the sick. And your conception that somehow there is no such thing a normal if applied to physical medicine would imply that there are no sick at all!

A Schitzophrenic is not experiencing a different reality, they're sick.

A Manic Depressive is notexperiencing a different reality, they're sick.

An Obssesive Complulsive is notexperiencing a different reality, they're sick.

And advocating withholding their treatment is akin to seeing a man drown and taking away his rope.

[hazard]

that is really the only valid counter to my argument, and I am glad that it was finally raised

the question of "valid" mental illness

lets look at what constitutes a mental illness, regardless of whether or not it is to be considered valid. they are notarized exclusively with a persons ability to function within a given society. now, prior to capitalism, certain "illnessess" were treated completely differently. first of all, emotions were not illnessess. so manic depressives were not SICK as you stated, but sad. next, superstitions were considered normative social practices, akin to saying "God bless you" after someone sneezed and not walking under ladders and avoiding black cats and wearing garlic under full moons and painting blood on your door during passover and not eating meat on fridays. so obsessive compulsives were not SICK, but superstitious. finally, prophets and visionaries were often held with the highest respect. so schizophrenices were not SICK, but in tune with an higher level of existence.

society has, and IS, constantly defing what sort of behaviour is able to work best in conjunction with what that society wants to achieve. and, since capitalism wants only to generate capital, all three of your examples are labelled as SICK since they interfere with this generation.

sad workers are less productive. call them SICK and pump 'em full of drugs so that they can produce just as well as the "naturally" emotionless or happy workers (stupid workers) and generate all the precious capital for their greedy and evil and twisted capitalist owners.

superstitious people, as obsessed as they might seem, are equally as unproductive as sad workers. additionally, due to their outdated but perfectly normal behaviour, based upon what time period you view them from, the drugged or emotionless or stupid workers become distracted by their outlandish antics, such as washing their hands twenty times every hour on the hour. still, when one consideres the TRILLION dollar hygene industry, capitalism is just as much to blame for certain aspects of this "sickness". so, drug 'em for this reason or the former one so that the trillion dollar hygene industry can continue running their soap and shampoo and body wash and paper towel and toilet paper ads around the clock.

visionaries present the largest threat to capitalists. as they can influence the world, the people, in ways the capitalists can only dream of, the threat to capital generation is seen best by this type. so, call 'em sick and drug 'em. that way they are too doped up to influence the drugged or stupid or happy workers and possibly induce a revolution of some kind.

mental illness is a phrase that exists only in a capitalist society. it litterally means that the illness is non-existant. a figment of one's imagination. and as such, by its own defintion, it is not an illness at all. only a society that is forced to believe that such interpretations of reality as being sick is sick, and not the other way around.

[LSD]

Oh come now,

The fact that in the middle ages certain mental illnesses were not treated as such is irrelevent.

Many physical illnesses were not recognized as such, that doesn't mean that those illnesses are "cultural".

Certainly you aren't saying that cancer is only a real disease if the medical establishment recognizes it as such, so are you saying that disease is only non-cultural if it is non-neurological, but cultural if it is?

What about the neurological symptoms shown to be associated with depression, such a neurotransmitter levels? Doesn't that mean that it qualifies as a physical disease and therefore is not "cultural".

As to your theory that we only treat the depressed or the obsessive compulsive because of a capitalistic desire to increase production, what about the treatment of the bourgeois and their families?

Are the evil capitalists trying to oppress their own as well?

Furthermore, although a "sad" or "superstitious" worker may not "produce" very well, they also have problems in every aspect of their lives.

Ask a depressed person if they are happy with their lives and I can tell you what they'd say. The fact is it's about more than just production it's also about living one's life.


As far as "visionaries", I think you should study the manifestations of schitzophrenia. A patient who believes they cannot move a muscle lest the world explode is not helping society. Rather they are unable to live their lives.


mental illness is a phrase that exists only in a capitalist society. it litterally means that the illness is non-existant. a figment of one's imagination. and as such, by its own defintion, it is not an illness at all.

That's not what it means at all.

That is a ridiculous intepretation of the words.

"Mental illness" mean an illness of the mind, not an "imagined" one.

The fact is the mind is as much a biological organ a any other and so it can become as sick as any other organ. And although we do not fully understand its intricacies, through psychology and psychiatry we are able to at least help people.

[hazard]

cancer is not a mental illness. it is a physical illness. it is of the body, not of the mind.

culture has nothing to do with medical inferiority on a basis of time. a doctor can look at a dying person, in any age, and without properly diagnosing the illness as cancer can conclude the patient is close to death. diagnosing a disease has little to do with whether or not it exists.

which is what the so called mental illness thing is all about. names. labels. attributions.

sad is depression. depression is an illness. prophetic is schizophrenic. shizophrenia is an illness. and so on.

what was once considered nomral BEHAVIOUR, like crying when sad, is now considered abnormal. why? you avoid my conclusion and seem to think that it REALLY is sick to feel emotion. your example of "their own" is inapplicable. like what are you saying? the capitalists snort cocaine while the workers smoke crack? this has nothin to do with the false attribution of emotion as an illness.

the shcizo who cannot move a muscle because he believes the world will explode is an outstanding example. outstanding. where do sch beliefs come from? when the planet is a powder keg of nuclear weapons that can be triggered with a twitch of muscle, is this not less an illness than it is a prophetic vision of the world and what capitalism has brought it to? thanks for bringing that up. field as many shcizophrenic examples as you can.

where is my mind? seriously. you can't even tell me where it is and you start talking about the brain as a biological organ. I can invent so called mental illneses and also go around branding people with them. that does not amke them any MORE real than my imagining a purple sphere rotating around your head like pluto in our own solar system.

[LSD]

ancer is not a mental illness. it is a physical illness. it is of the body, not of the mind.

Yes, it was a metaphor.


culture has nothing to do with medical inferiority on a basis of time. a doctor can look at a dying person, in any age, and without properly diagnosing the illness as cancer can conclude the patient is close to death. diagnosing a disease has little to do with whether or not it exists.

Not nescessarily at all.

Sure some diseases present physical signs, but what about high blood pressure? Or heart disease?

There are no recognizable physical symptoms until the patient has a heart attack.


which is what the so called mental illness thing is all about. names. labels. attributions.

..well so is any medicine. Categorization, labeling. Makes them easier to treat if there's standardization.

Doesn't make it any less real.


sad is depression. depression is an illness. prophetic is schizophrenic. shizophrenia is an illness. and so on.

what was once considered nomral BEHAVIOUR, like crying when sad, is now considered abnormal. why? you avoid my conclusion and seem to think that it REALLY is sick to feel emotion. your example of "their own" is inapplicable. like what are you saying? the capitalists snort cocaine while the workers smoke crack? this has nothin to do with the false attribution of emotion as an illness.

No one claims that crying when sad is abnormal, but crying all the time for no discernable reason and suffering because of it is.

It isn't about emotion, it's about suffering, it's about an inability to lead one's life because one is always crying or is hallucinating.


the shcizo who cannot move a muscle because he believes the world will explode is an outstanding example. outstanding. where do sch beliefs come from? when the planet is a powder keg of nuclear weapons that can be triggered with a twitch of muscle, is this not less an illness than it is a prophetic vision of the world and what capitalism has brought it to? thanks for bringing that up. field as many shcizophrenic examples as you can.

Prophetic vision?? Really?
Strange, no one but you seems to get that.

Besides, what good would it do anyone?

If they stand in their apartment for months at a time, doing nothng at all....who's being helped?
Who's being "enlightened".

Maybe if they were treated they would be able to contribute to society and fix some of the problems you've outlined, being unable to move isn't.


where is my mind? seriously. you can't even tell me where it is and you start talking about the brain as a biological organ.

um...your mind's in your brain which is in your head.

You know, right above your neck...


I can invent so called mental illneses and also go around branding people with them. that does not amke them any MORE real than my imagining a purple sphere rotating around your head like pluto in our own solar system.

Well, that would be because you have no training, much as if you started to pronounce any diseases, people would be loathe to believe you without some evidence.

But if you could back up your claims with case examples and trials then people would be willing to at least consider your pronouncments.


I think what you're not realizing here is that the brain is as able to be genuinely sick as any other organ. No part of the human body is perfect, we are all just evolutionary products, and as such are intrinsically flawed. Therefore is it that hard to imagine that it can experience problems??

[hazard]

para 3:

here's my point. I am going to blindly attribute to you a new mental illness called purplerotatoid. I am simply, on abasis of what you say, diagnose you with this illness. you ARE now suffering from it, as I have diagnosed you with it. too bad. there is no cure. now two percent of al your life earnings will be spent on some brain numbing chemicals. this is how psychiatry operates. you are literally attributed with a NON EXISTANT illness and forced to live with the so called symptoms of it and all capital generating components of it as well. also, you are suffering from thyryouidfergur. and beedfarutym as well. purplerotatoid is the one where you have a sphere rotating around your head but noone can see it. thyryouidfergur is the one where you constantly wake up on the wrong side of the bed. beedfarutym is the one where you spend an extra five minutes in the shower every time you take one.

para 4:

you say crying for no reason. so admitedly psychiatry states THERE IS NO REASON. so they INVENT a reason, give it a name, and inhibit the emotion. the real reason is societal decay and malaise from an overly materialistic, emotionless and loveless society. this is all in conjuction with my original post.

para 5:

we are working with an extreme example. I've never known a schizo to behave like that. still, as schizo's DO display and DO tend to believe in ESP type phenomena (voices, angels, visions), who knows. maybe the xhizo has his brain waves crossed with a freaked out missile commander or something. simply pumping these people full of drugs doesn't solve the problem or explore it properly. neither does subjegating or treating them like guinea pigs. ALL religious leaders in the past provide the modern tamplate for schizophrenia. as far as capitalism is concerned, as religion tends to stop people from entertaining their material needs, suppressing the schizo's is necessary to protect their cash money and their generatin of capital.

para 6:

uh, is it?

para 7:

the evidence is in my original post

please refer back to it and quote FROM THAT post as opposed to responding to my responses to your responses. as it is, I am already repeating the arguments I have laid out firmly tehre which tells me you have not even really read it

[LSD]

here's my point. I am going to blindly attribute to you a new mental illness called purplerotatoid. I am simply, on abasis of what you say, diagnose you with this illness. you ARE now suffering from it, as I have diagnosed you with it. too bad. there is no cure. now two percent of al your life earnings will be spent on some brain numbing chemicals. this is how psychiatry operates. you are literally attributed with a NON EXISTANT illness and forced to live with the so called symptoms of it and all capital generating components of it as well. also, you are suffering from thyryouidfergur. and beedfarutym as well. purplerotatoid is the one where you have a sphere rotating around your head but noone can see it. thyryouidfergur is the one where you constantly wake up on the wrong side of the bed. beedfarutym is the one where you spend an extra five minutes in the shower every time you take one.

Yes that happens, it's called scamming...fine.

I think you are missing the fundamental basis for psychological treatment and that is the patient is suffering. Your examples hardly qualify. In fact there is a standard list that psychologists can go through to determine whether something can genuinely qualify as a mental illness. Besides suffering one the key ones is that it prevents one from living one's life, your hypotheticals do not. Manic Depression does.



you say crying for no reason. so admitedly psychiatry states THERE IS NO REASON. so they INVENT a reason, give it a name, and inhibit the emotion. the real reason is societal decay and malaise from an overly materialistic, emotionless and loveless society. this is all in conjuction with my original post.

Oh come on...

Everyone suffering from depression isn't actually depressed rather they're suffering the "societal decay and malaise from an overly materialistic, emotionless and loveless society"?

What about heredity???

Are children of the depressed just more suseptible to the "societal decay and malaise from an overly materialistic, emotionless and loveless society"?? (and the heredity correlation exists in those who were not raised by their biological parents, a clear genetic link HAS been established).


we are working with an extreme example. I've never known a schizo to behave like that.

It's called Catatonic Schitzophrenia, and the fact that you've never heard of it means nothing to me, other than to show that you are ignorant of the subject at hand.


still, as schizo's DO display and DO tend to believe in ESP type phenomena (voices, angels, visions), who knows. maybe the xhizo has his brain waves crossed with a freaked out missile commander or something.

Ah yes, metaphysics, ESP.....

I don't suppose you have anything approaching evidence for that...


ALL religious leaders in the past provide the modern tamplate for schizophrenia. as far as capitalism is concerned, as religion tends to stop people from entertaining their material needs, suppressing the schizo's is necessary to protect their cash money and their generatin of capital.

That's untrue.

Several religions have indeed promoted capitalism (e.g., Scientology).


simply pumping these people full of drugs doesn't solve the problem or explore it properly. neither does subjegating or treating them like guinea pigs.

It has definetly helped.

Schitzophreniacs today are in a far better position than they were, say, 500 years ago.

500 years ago they were treated as witches or posessed, today they can function and to a greater degree live their lives.


uh, is it?

Yes,

Try reading a neurology textbook.



the evidence is in my original post

please refer back to it and quote FROM THAT post as opposed to responding to my responses to your responses. as it is, I am already repeating the arguments I have laid out firmly tehre which tells me you have not even really read it

Evidence??

I asked you a question, a question that you have not answered:

I think what you're not realizing here is that the brain is as able to be genuinely sick as any other organ. No part of the human body is perfect, we are all just evolutionary products, and as such are intrinsically flawed. Therefore is it that hard to imagine that it can experience problems??
Would you please address the above query.
I looked and the answer is not in your original post.

My other question which you haven't answered is what is your alternative?
If we declare psychology to be too capitalistic than how do we treat these people? Or do we even treat them at all?
Do we let them suffer?



Hazard, you've been making a lot of assertations here and the biggest is your repeated claim that none of these diseases exist, that they are all capitalistic constructs. But you have offered no evidence for this contention, rather you are demanding that I prove that the entire scientific establishment is not engaged in a massive conspiracy. The burden of proof is on you here, and despite your numerous and verbose postings, you haven't offered anything even approaching evidence.

[hazard]

para1:

suffering. clearly. but the response should not be to treat the individual, but to treat the source of the problem. society itself. read the original post.

para2:

I see such depression an indication of rejecting the material world of capitalism. what is SUPPOSED to make you happy ( superbowl halftime shows, beer and bimbos ) no longer works. this has something to do with a level of intellect that does correlate with heredity. a NON EXISTANT illness cannot have genetic ties, as the psyhcological industry asserts.

para3:

I thought that was called a coma. what is the fucking difference? THIS IS MY POINT!!!!

para4:

since you believe in psyhcology I have evidence. you do know that psychology is not even a science, don't you? it is on the same level as astrology. a pseudo science. so I should be easily able to convince you in extra sensory phenomena and psychic events.

para5:

perposterous. thats a cult anyway. protestantism is what capitalism is based upon, but since protestantism is only a rip off of catholocism watered down to cyphen money off of mentally weak indiciduals unable to convert, this basis is impossible to prove to a society so easily duped into following brand superiority (ie. baptist, anglican, pentecostal, etc, etc, etc ).

para6:

that is complete horsehit. 500 years ago schizo's were treated as high holy mena and oracles, seers, prophets and wise people.

para7:

the existence of the MIND is a philosophical question. while one cannot doubt the physical existence of the grey matter that is the brain, the mind itself is a whole other story. look into it.

para8:

clearly the brain can become as physically ill as any organ. question answered.

para9:

by defintion none of these diseases exist. which begs the question. why are we being lied to concerning their so called existence? my original post is a suggested answer to this question.

[LSD]

suffering. clearly. but the response should not be to treat the individual, but to treat the source of the problem. society itself. read the original post.

But as you admit yourself, not all mental problems can be blamed on "society".


I thought that was called a coma. what is the fucking difference? THIS IS MY POINT!!!!

A coma and catatonic schitzophrenia are entirely different, research the damn field be before you delcare it void.


since you believe in psyhcology I have evidence. you do know that psychology is not even a science, don't you? it is on the same level as astrology. a pseudo science. so I should be easily able to convince you in extra sensory phenomena and psychic events.

No, it's a science, more on the level of sociology than, say, physics, but still adhering to basic conceptions of evidence and correlation and causation and empiricism.


perposterous. thats a cult anyway. protestantism is what capitalism is based upon, but since protestantism is only a rip off of catholocism watered down to cyphen money off of mentally weak indiciduals unable to convert, this basis is impossible to prove to a society so easily duped into following brand superiority (ie. baptist, anglican, pentecostal, etc, etc, etc ).

The protestantism-capitalism link has been made many times, but it's irrelevent here.

Your argument was that capitalism labels "visionaries" as sick because religions oppose capitalism.

You just listed several which do not!


that is complete horsehit. 500 years ago schizo's were treated as high holy mena and oracles, seers, prophets and wise people.

Ha!

In some societies, certainly, but in most of the world they were believed be ill.

In western society specifically they were generally believed to be demonically possessed.


the existence of the MIND is a philosophical question. while one cannot doubt the physical existence of the grey matter that is the brain, the mind itself is a whole other story. look into it.

It is nearly universally accepted that what we call "the mind" is the interaction of neurons within the brain.

Since you admit that it is possible for this organ to experience problems, then it flows logically that the mind can experience problems, hence mental illness is possible.


see such depression an indication of rejecting the material world of capitalism. what is SUPPOSED to make you happy ( superbowl halftime shows, beer and bimbos ) no longer works. this has something to do with a level of intellect that does correlate with heredity. a NON EXISTANT illness cannot have genetic ties, as the psyhcological industry asserts.

by defintion none of these diseases exist. which begs the question. why are we being lied to concerning their so called existence? my original post is a suggested answer to this question.


Again, you claim that these diseases are nonexistent despite evidence to the contrary, while still providing none of your own.

These diseases show similar patterns, respond to similar courses of treatment, often show visible, demonstratable PHYSICAL symtoms (e.g., neurotransmitter levels in depression or schitzophrenia), and show clear genetic correlation as well as similar evironmental causes.

....but they don't exist??

If you want to make that point, you're going to have to back it up.





clearly the brain can become as physically ill as any organ. question answered.

Thank you.

Now, how about some elementary logical deduction, hmm?


1) The brain is a collection of neurons.

2) According to every medical expert in the field (neurology, psychology, psychiatry, neuroendicronology, internal medicine...) the interaction of those neurons are responsible for human thought, emotion, sensation, and every other aspect we associate with the "mind".

3) Your statement: "the brain can become as physically ill as any organ"

4) Based on 2, the "mind" and the "interaction of neurons" are the same.

5) Based on 3, it is possible for the brain to become "ill", based on 1, the brain is a collection of neurons, therefore it is possible for the interaction of those neurons to become "ill".

6) Based on 5, it is possible for the interaction of those neurons to become "ill", based on 2, the mind is the interaction of nuerons, therefore it is possible for the mind to become "ill".

7) Based on 6, it is possible for the mind to become "ill", therefore "mental" "illness" can exist.

QED


If mental illness can exist, as we've established above, your primary assumption, that being that these diseases "DON'T EXIST" is eliminated. So far, all of your contentions have predicated on that notion and then attempted to offer "theories" as to why people are "making up diseases".

by defintion none of these diseases exist. which begs the question. why are we being lied to concerning their so called existence? my original post is a suggested answer to this question.

Clearly your "definition" is flawed.

[Individual]

LSD...

As I'm sure you already know. Hazard is ignorant, unwilling to accept any thoughts besides the abnormities that appear in his head. Read any, and every response concerning someone's questions on any one of his theories, and you will find that we are all 'idiots' and he is a 'genius'. I've lost all hope in trying to communicate with this... well.. bastard.

I'm starting to think what hazard really wants is to isolate himself. So lets give it to him.

He seems to agree/side with nobody on Che-Lives. He calls us all idiots. I actually tend to wonder. If he is so damn perfect, what is he doing talking on this board. He obviously could care less what anyone has to think. So I think we should let him be. Let him be isolated. Actually, pretty soon here I think I just may have to start a thread about it. The movement to isolate hazard. haha. Honestly though. There is no winning, he is one of the most ignorant persons I have come across, which is a hard accomplishment.

You may feel abliged to carry on this debate and plunge into the deep. However no matter how much you may prove him completely wrong, no acknowledgement from himself. So really, I think what he wants, is to be isolated. I think we should give it to him.

Ahh, isolation.

How's it going to feel hazard. Nobody to care about your life's measely theories and your ignorance. Boo-hoo.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

He does it because in reality it is highly likely he is the loner kid in school or work. People dont recognise his 'genius' so he goes on here and spouts his rubbish.

[Wenty]

i find it hard to believe anyone could be that arrogant though, not anyone sane anyway.

it could be an elaborate ploy to just wind us up.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 02:18 PM
He does it because in reality it is highly likely he is the loner kid in school or work. People dont recognise his 'genius' so he goes on here and spouts his rubbish.
Geist.

Yes, I realize this. I just don't want to put it that way to him. I tried to acknowledge his theories in a decent light, only for him to blow them off. He did it to himself. Therefore he deserves what is coming.

What you have said is also where I think he gets these ideas for his theories. He does not realize they relate to himself. However this is honestly why I believe he hates these 'people' in his theories so much. This thread on psychology I have not even bothered to comment on besides his personality. I do not dare clue him in that everything about himself is identifiable through psychology. I honestly think we should give Hazard what he seems to want. Isolation. I now propose that we not acknowledge a word he says, and see what happens.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I guess so, but be prepared for much spam and attempts to inflame the likes of us.

[Individual]

This is my point.

If you give a whining child what he wants, he stops whining. If we all ignore hazard, he will stop whining. Get what I'm saying? Hazard can spam me all he wants, his words have no respect, from anyone. We all know that arguing with him leads nowhere. So lets just let him be.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Ok let's see how it goes.

[Individual]

I know he will do everything in his will to not 'let us win'. However just let him post his theories. Let him spam you. Don't take any of it to heart or let it anger you. Infact, if you see a thread he starts, it may be best just not to read it.

He is not going to let this happen to him, I know this. So he will get worse before he stops. He will think up things to aggravate everyone in a personal way. The only way to isolate him, is to completely ignore him.

EDIT: Notice what he is doing in this next post of his.... If your sick of his shit, my advice would be to all out ignore him.. It's up to you.

[hazard]

But as you admit yourself, not all mental problems can be blamed on "society".


I never even said this. How ca you say I admitted this?



I thought that was called a coma. what is the fucking difference? THIS IS MY POINT!!!!

A coma and catatonic schitzophrenia are entirely different, research the damn field be before you delcare it void.


different in the same way I have been asserting all along. in name alone



since you believe in psyhcology I have evidence. you do know that psychology is not even a science, don't you? it is on the same level as astrology. a pseudo science. so I should be easily able to convince you in extra sensory phenomena and psychic events.

No, it's a science, more on the level of sociology than, say, physics, but still adhering to basic conceptions of evidence and correlation and causation and empiricism.

no its a pseudo science. it is UNFALSIFIABLE, and that is the definition of a pseudo science



Your argument was that capitalism labels "visionaries" as sick because religions oppose capitalism.

You just listed several which do not!


that is complete horsehit. 500 years ago schizo's were treated as high holy mena and oracles, seers, prophets and wise people.

Ha!

In some societies, certainly, but in most of the world they were believed be ill.

In western society specifically they were generally believed to be demonically possessed.


you laugh. but he(or she, heh) who ,laughs last laughs hardest.

your logical construction makes no sense. I do not agree to any one of those points. this is going nowhere. I am right. I have proved my point. current events. chek em out. NEWSFLASH! you lose. again and again and again and again and again. and again and again and again. and again.

actually thats it. this argument bores me. I won at default. you lose.

psychlogy is useless for any other reason than I have outlined in my original post

current events, AN UPDATE!!!! you just got your ass kicked

[LSD]

I never even said this. How ca you say I admitted this?
------>"clearly the brain can become as physically ill as any organ. question answered."


different in the same way I have been asserting all along. in name alone

RESEARCH!!!!!!


you laugh. but he(or she, heh) who ,laughs last laughs hardest.


actually thats it. this argument bores me. I won at default. you lose.

psychlogy is useless for any other reason than I have outlined in my original post

current events, AN UPDATE!!!! you just got your ass kicked

Alright, that's it.

I'm done here.


Seriously, Hazard, I think that you are entirely incapable of intelligent discourse so I'm out.

If you want to think you "won", have fun, but I think it's pretty clear to everyone here that you could use some of that "useless" psychology yourself.

[hazard]

its about fucking time too

considering you refuse to discuss what the real point of my orignal post was, It couldn't have been sooner

you should have been questioning the reason and causes, as well as the justifcation and effects of using a medical front to control revolution as well as for generating capital.

this is a fucking communist website anyway. in case any of you post nov03 members forget or something

[Iepilei]

Calling psychology useless because it's medicinal abuses by it's money-greedy counselors and physicians is about as absurd as claiming medical study is useless because of our use of curative medicines.

Psychology is the study of the mind and is largely a compliment to sociology in the study of humanity and human interaction. It is based largely on theory, as we haven't developed technology capable of allowing us to study the human mind in further, greater detail. However, it is necissary for human development to understand what causes us to act as we do.

It's a benefit to our cause, not a curse.