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View Full Version : Sexism as a totality vs. individual displays of sexism



RedWorker
7th August 2015, 01:46
Some products openly advertise themselves through sexualized pictures of women in order to get more profit.

The thing is, some products also display themselves through sexualized pictures of men in order to get more profit.

Ah, but of course, we know that the latter case is a minority.

Furthermore, we know that the former case is a symptom of sexism. Sexism is not down to individual interactions, rather it is a system which should be materially analyzed and which has its base in the collective social, political, economical, etc. power of men and the oppression of the female identity in general. This system also causes some problems that affect men, but every time, such problems have their base on their oppression of the female, the woman as a whole, in the collective oppressive system structured by the power of men.

We can prove that this system exists itself in a totality - but could we prove that a specific instance of sexism is sexist? Not one bit. We could brand one business as sexist in our heads because it advertised itself through a picture of a sexualized woman, the next thing we know it could be having a man posing sexually in their next commercial.

Ah, but it is the fact that she (the model) is a woman changes everything! That she is a woman, by default, means nothing. But the fact that she is a woman is the core of sexism! The fact that we know that this is nothing but a SPECIFIC display of the oppressive system, and that is why she IS a woman, THAT changes everything. She is a woman and this MEANS NOTHING, but at the same time she IS a woman and this CHANGES EVERYTHING.

Did you lose yourself yet?

Liberals, and those with a bourgeois and idealist understanding of sexism and feminism, will come to us and argue: "But you see, it is a woman who has decided to pose as a model. It is her freedom to pose as a model, and this is the core of everything."

We communists, materialists and feminists would reply: "Yes, she is a woman, and she decided to pose, but does sexism go down to these individual interactions? We have not one bit of moralism in us. Each individual, and by extension each woman, has the freedom to pose however they want, to participate in whatever campaigns they want. But the fact is that your beloved woman, who as an individual is entirely irrelevant, and in fact on an individual level her quality of being a woman is irrelevant, is taking part on a advertisement campaign which does not exist on an individual level but which is based on the collective structure of patriarchy, which is observable through a materialist analysis. It is not the individual display of a sexualized woman that we have a problem with. As a matter of fact, sexualization and objectification cannot exist on an individual level. These concepts are talking about a system."

In other words, perhaps 99% of advertisements sexualize women, and 1% of them sexualize men. But:

1) Sexualization is only relevant as a totality. Men are not sexualized. Women are. There may be a specific sexual display of man, but this does not form the basis for collective sexualization and objectification, which are really existing structures.

2) The sexualization of a woman has a sexist character. The sexualization of a man can have a sexist character, too, but this sexist character will always be based in the structure of patriarchy. The sexualization of a man may be sexist in that "men are strong". We could argue that this stereotype could have destructive side effects against men, but we know that it has its basis in the patriarchy.

But we can never prove that ONE of these advertisements sexualizing women comes from a sexist background. We can prove that AS A TOTALITY they come from a sexist background. We cannot prove that a specific one is sexist, indeed this is impossible within our framework.

But there are actions, some of which could be said to originate from a (at least ostensibly) feminist background (and others from moralism) that take up their problem with a specific advertisement campaigns.

For example, in the UK there was an advertisement which included a low-weight woman, labelled 'underweight' by some.

A campaign against that advertisement was led under the banner of 'feminism'. And, the result was entirely counter-productive: the company gained tons of publicity from the feminists' campaign about it. There were tons of people (including many women) commenting in social media: "I am going to buy their products now because I believe in freedom of speech" etc. etc.

So, this action could be criticized on two points.

First, the result was obviously entirely counter-productive.

Second, it is akin to reformism. It is the notion that by struggling against one expression of sexism we can eliminate sexism as a whole.

The utter failure of the campaign against that advertisement soon became obvious and indisputable to all.

If a man says to a woman, "go back to the kitchen" we can say that this, individually, is sexist. As far as most advertisement campaigns are regarded, though, we can only understand them as sexist in a totality, and we can't prove they are sexist individually - only a few advertisement campaigns are openly sexist on an individual level.

So, I pose the following question:

Should feminism not be oriented as a struggle against the totality instead of the individual expressions of sexism, except when these individual expressions are sexist by themselves?

With what other things (not only advertisement campaigns) or feminist actions is this problem apparent?

Furthermore, would this orientation not result in changes that concern an extent much deeper than that described in this post, and that call into question the philosophical base of certain strains of feminism, as well as their strategy and tactics? What would it entail?

What conclusions should feminists take from all of this?

As a matter of fact: I believe, partly as a result of that which was written above and what was written above entails in a context and to an extent much deeper than was described, that sexism is not "the oppression of man by woman" but rather a system which has its basis into a existing patriarchy which must be understood through a materialist understanding, and that to reduce this to terms of 'men' and 'women' misses the point. In one sentence: Marx argued in a note that capitalists are only the expression, the faces, the representatives of capital, and that workers are only the expression of labor. I would argue that men and women are only representatives of the system of patriarchy.

A sexism which in reality has its expression in that women have to endure it and in which man's experience is limited to the occasional side effect in which he can't complain about the violence of a woman because others would laugh at him (and this has its basis in that "men are strong and women are weak", thus still anti-women principles!), but that can only be truly understood by considering what I have said in the above paragraph - if my arguments are correct.

Decolonize The Left
16th August 2015, 19:49
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say but I think that sexism should be battled on all fronts: big, small, individual, systemic, etc. It doesn't matter what "level" it's on because levels don't matter; the lived experience of women is what matters.

Rafiq
17th August 2015, 05:43
For the record, I appreciate you starting this thread as the theoretical discussions on this forum remain continually dry as a result of the righteous philistinism of many users - that makes them think they can abstain from asking and discussing these very real and hard questions.


1) Sexualization is only relevant as a totality. Men are not sexualized. Women are. There may be a specific sexual display of man, but this does not form the basis for collective sexualization and objectification, which are really existing structures.

Well no, both men and women are and can be sexualized. That isn't a point of controversy. The point is - what does it mean for a women to be sexualized in contrast to what it means for a man to be sexualized?

Men can never be OBJECTIFIED, commodified, this is the point, men can never be the object of desire - in capitalist society, women are only capable of making themselves desirable, they can - in Lacan's words, only desire to desire. To clarify, this does not mean that men cannot present themselves as attractive to women, or that women cannot 'want' men, the point is that this is very different from desire. In other words, what a women wants from a man relegates back to her own degree of desirability, while what a man wants from a women relates back to his desire for her.

Sexualization is constitutive to the mere presentation of both the male and female gender, but only the former has an independent sexual identity.


Should feminism not be oriented as a struggle against the totality instead of the individual expressions of sexism, except when these individual expressions are sexist by themselves?

I think the confusion arises here from a fundamental misconception as to the nature of these individual expressions of sexism. What Communists (or radical feminists, specifically) should focus on is how particular expressions of sexism constitute a part of systemic sexism in general. For example, one of the examples you provide :


For example, in the UK there was an advertisement which included a low-weight woman, labelled 'underweight' by some.

A campaign against that advertisement was led under the banner of 'feminism'.
[...]
So, this action could be criticized on two points.

First, the result was obviously entirely counter-productive.

Second, it is akin to reformism. It is the notion that by struggling against one expression of sexism we can eliminate sexism as a whole.

This isn't just the point, though. The feminists who engaged in this struggle probably had absolutely no illusions about its propensity to end sexism as a whole - I suppose we can imagine they told themselves that very specifically it would be a blow to the insanely ridiculous beauty standards in present day capitalist society. The point isn't that it was not enough to combat this "one expression of sexism", because there are plenty of individual instances wherein Communists ought to stand behind particular feminist struggles - for example, in a university, if a professor was telling his students that rape is an evolutionary adaptation, then a struggle to sack the professor would be a worthy one to back.

And there are plenty of examples. Political struggles, for one. Of course we know that in the end, sexual slavery will always persist in capitalist society, but we cannot wish it away with the magic wand of the proletarian dictatorship. We need, as Lenin said, a concrete evaluation of concrete situations. Sexism, or capitalist society as a whole, is not some kind of fortress we need to siege - it's a continual struggle with continually expressive antagonisms. Communism arises only from these antagonisms.

The real problem, specifically, is how dynamic capitalism is in perverting such struggles. For example, there are several companies which use "natural" models, which seek to give a realistic assessment of women's body images. Should we oppose these? Well no, but that does not make them non conductive of sexism and objectification. Because ultimately the basic message is to offer a more realistic standard for it - for women's mortification. A sexually liberated society would not have such a tacit recognition that women who are not beautiful or attractive are worthless, standards notwithstanding (THAT IS NOT to say that being attractive wouldn't be important for people, the point is that they can REMAIN free individuals without it - ugly men, for example, might feel like shit now, but they are not rendered worthless).

Back to the basic point, the real root of the failure is the inability to coordinate these struggles in a manner that is - not so much subservient - but consistently linked to a wider political struggle. Without this, there is no mechanism to prevent feminism from destroying itself (And the smae goes for ALL identity-based struggles, including ones pertaining to racial oppression), no means by which the real basis of women's oppression is understood. Specifically, for example, regarding these advertisements, I don't see how they must INEVITABLY be counter-productive. Linked up with a wider political struggle, it could be a reform worth pursuing. Or maybe not... The point is, whether they are or not has little to do with the fact that they're only individual expressions of a wider, general sexism.


If a man says to a woman, "go back to the kitchen" we can say that this, individually, is sexist.

But this is contradictory. If this can be "individually" sexist, so too can specific advertisements. I basically agree with the point that nothing is sufficient unto itself as far as its qualification, but isn't this a false dichotomy if we begin from the axiom that we are Marxists? Nothing exists independently from its relation to other things, and likewise, a man telling a women to "go back to the kitchen" is quite very much meaningless outside its context. What you might be trying to say is that this would be intolerable, i.e. as Communists we can call individuals out for saying such drivel, but you can't intolerate an advertisement any more than you can 'call out' Steven Pinker's garbage works, or 'sexist art' on an immediate level.

I think the basic point that is missing here is that you CAN approach things on this level - you can attack, criticize and assault sexism in its individual manifestations, but the NATURE of this assault must be in consideration of its wider relation to structural sexism in general, this ultimately is the only point. Most feminists, no matter how much we ought to support them, lack this (absolutely unfamiliar with the continental tradition). What this means is - yes - if we merely play the politically correct game, and act as capitalism's conscience or left-superego, where do we end it? If we attack such advertisements, we must have no illusions about the immediate effects - we must conceive it as a realizable reform (STRATEGICALLY that is) and not some kind of blow to objectification in general. This is the point. Otherwise, it doesn't end - we can start talking about "classism" in cinema and so on.


A sexism which in reality has its expression in that women have to endure it and in which man's experience is limited to the occasional side effect in which he can't complain about the violence of a woman because others would laugh at him (and this has its basis in that "men are strong and women are weak", thus still anti-women principles!)

The problem is that in capitalism, in our present sexual order violence against men by women can and will never be the same as violence against women by men. To be more clear: there is no "objective" phenomena of violence against men of which's representation by sexist ideology makes us laugh at it, for "the laugh" is absolutely implicit and constitutive of the violent act itself. In other words, sexism is not corrupting, or misrepresenting female violence against men, because the sexual order is already implicit in such acts, in their causation, their basis of existence, and so on.

As Communists we should never let some MRA scum try and tell us that there's this hidden phenomena of men being abused by women we're ignoring. It's disgusting. It's disgusting because it tries to de-sensitize, and trivialize actual violence (constitutive of sexual oppression).