Hello,*help a comrade out

[MathAndMarx26]

We all know that we need to fight capitalism and ultimately overthrow it with a revolution. But HOW??? There are so many ideologies, organizations, movements and tendencies that are all struggling or claiming to struggle against capitalism. As far as I know, here in the Philippines, the rather nationalistic left speaks of fighting for a "National Democracy", while the Communist Party essentially follows the Maoist ideology and has an armed wing that wages guerrilla warfare in the rural areas. I've recently contacted the IMT with the aim of helping build an internationalist and socialist group in my country, but I still have so much doubt concerning the best actions and ideas to take and adapt in order to further the struggle.
Should I join an international marxist-leninist-trotskyist group like the IMT and help organize, if yes, then which one out of the many groups? Should I join the local maoist revolutionary armed struggle? And then there is Libertarian/Anarcho Communism which seems to be a viable idea, with less focus on the taking of power.
I want to do something about capitalism, so I read, study, and explore. But we know that we have to do more than those in order to achieve a revolution. So I read, study, and explore some more in order to find out what to do...

Sorry for the long intro, there really is just so much to learn still!

[Q]

Welcome :)

If you have political questions, you can ask them in the Learning forum. That's why it's there after all!

If you have questions about your account, don't hesitate to send me a PM or ask here.

Whether or not you should be joining any group depends on what it can offer you in your political development. These groups are often very small, the IMT for example is no larger than a few thousand members worldwide.

Second, many organisations of this nature require you to agree, at least publically, with their political positions, even if you personally think otherwise. If you're living more isolated then you probably have some leeway in this, but with an established section you're required to toe the line.

If you're willing to go along with these caveats, then sure, join the IMT or a similar group!

[Црвена]

The most important thing, of course, is to join an organisation which shares most of your political positions and is organised in a way that you approve of - i.e. if you're not a Trotskyist and not into democratic centralism (or at least the version of it practised by Trotskyist groups), don't join the IMT. Before you join an organisation, I'd suggest reading more theory, familiarising yourself with the history and political line of organisations which you're interested in and clarifying your own position a bit more.

[MathAndMarx26]

Thanks for the good advice! I suppose that compared to the rest of the groups here, the IMT is better for my political development. I will see how my correspondence with the IMT works out and will hopefully try to help build a section here in my country as there is none yet.

[MathAndMarx26]

But the question that lingers in my head and is constantly bothering me is whether the "way that I approve of" is even right, or at the very least helpful and not detrimental to the struggle against capitalism. I am constantly in the process of clarifying my own position and I don't know if that is good. Thanks for the advice!

[Fourth Internationalist]

We all know that we need to fight capitalism and ultimately overthrow it with a revolution. But HOW??? There are so many ideologies, organizations, movements and tendencies that are all struggling or claiming to struggle against capitalism. As far as I know, here in the Philippines, the rather nationalistic left speaks of fighting for a "National Democracy", while the Communist Party essentially follows the Maoist ideology and has an armed wing that wages guerrilla warfare in the rural areas. I've recently contacted the IMT with the aim of helping build an internationalist and socialist group in my country, but I still have so much doubt concerning the best actions and ideas to take and adapt in order to further the struggle.
Should I join an international marxist-leninist-trotskyist group like the IMT and help organize, if yes, then which one out of the many groups? Should I join the local maoist revolutionary armed struggle? And then there is Libertarian/Anarcho Communism which seems to be a viable idea, with less focus on the taking of power.
I want to do something about capitalism, so I read, study, and explore. But we know that we have to do more than those in order to achieve a revolution. So I read, study, and explore some more in order to find out what to do...

Sorry for the long intro, there really is just so much to learn still!

A correct, revolutionary program is the fundamental aspect to look for in any communist organization, and I believe that if you are joining an organization (the IMT in this case) simply to "do something" then you are headed down a misguided path. While it is good to get involved, the way to do so isn't to join an organization you may not fundamentally agree with, one that argues for a program that you don't believe points towards the correct road to revolution.

As of right now, you don't know whether to join a 'Trotskyist' organization, a Maoist organization, or an anarchist organization. The differences between Trotskyism, Maoism, and anarchism are HUGE! Even then, there are big differences between various organizations within each one of those tendencies.

I think the best way to go about this is to read a little bit into each one of these tendencies and decide which one is in line with your own thoughts and beliefs. Write down what your own thoughts are, and compare them to what the beliefs of these tendencies are. Read arguments in favor and against each of them, and you can decide for yourself what you think is right. Check out the Marxists Internet Archive (https://www.marxists.org/) to read materials from many, many communist writers, including Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, etc.

You may or may not fit in well with any current communist organization in your area, and I think it is important to accept that. The left is small and divided into various propaganda groups throughout the world, for the most part. If you find a group you do agree with but they don't have a section in your part of the world, contact them anyways. It is better to build a small but revolutionary organization than to "do something" within the confines of a bigger, non-revolutionary organization. Remember, you can still participate in politics outside the confines of any particular organization and discuss revolutionary politics with those who are interested.

Anyways, that's just my take on the issue. Feel free to respond to me and anything I said, if you want to :lol:

[MathAndMarx26]

A correct, revolutionary program is the fundamental aspect to look for in any communist organization, and I believe that if you are joining an organization (the IMT in this case) simply to "do something" then you are headed down a misguided path. While it is good to get involved, the way to do so isn't to join an organization you may not fundamentally agree with, one that argues for a program that you don't believe points towards the correct road to revolution.

As of right now, you don't know whether to join a 'Trotskyist' organization, a Maoist organization, or an anarchist organization. The differences between Trotskyism, Maoism, and anarchism are HUGE! Even then, there are big differences between various organizations within each one of those tendencies.

I think the best way to go about this is to read a little bit into each one of these tendencies and decide which one is in line with your own thoughts and beliefs. Write down what your own thoughts are, and compare them to what the beliefs of these tendencies are. Read arguments in favor and against each of them, and you can decide for yourself what you think is right. Check out the MarxistsInternet Archive to read materials from many, many communist writers, including Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, etc.

You may or may not fit in well with any current communist organization in your area, and I think it is important to accept that. The left is small and divided into various propaganda groups throughout the world, for the most part. If you find a group you do agree with but they don't have a section in your part of the world, contact them anyways. It is better to build a small but revolutionary organization than to "do something" within the confines of a bigger, non-revolutionary organization. Remember, you can still participate in politics outside the confines of any particular organization and discuss revolutionary politics with those who are interested.

Anyways, that's just my take on the issue. Feel free to respond to me and anything I said, if you want to :lol:
I agree. But then it always comes down to whether what I think is right IS right. :/ I have been reading and studying already but it always just seems to lead to more questions. As of now however, I have established contact with the IMT, so we will see how that turns out. Thanks!

[Fourth Internationalist]

I agree. But then it always comes down to whether what I think is right IS right. :/ I have been reading and studying already but it always just seems to lead to more questions. As of now however, I have established contact with the IMT, so we will see how that turns out. Thanks!

I would recommend also using the search function here on RevLeft if you come across an issue within revolutionary politics that you want to see debated out from the perspective of the different tendencies. For example, if in your studies you read about the Kronstadt rebellion and want to know where anarchists and Trotskyists differ on the issue, you should look it up here on RevLeft. There have been tons and tons of threads about it with many intelligent, well-thought-out posts on the subject from both sides of the issue. I have found many good, former users' posts here to be quite informative and helpful in my political development. :)

[Asero]

You darn dastardly Trotskyite wreckers got to him first!!1! *shakes fist*

First of all, the culture here in the Philippines is completely different than it is in the West. These people who are recommending you to just go up and join some organization come from a background where your previous political affiliations won't come back to haunt you, where 'mass politics' is done in an ivory tower. If you join up with an organization, whether it be if you've decided to divorce yourself from your friends and family to run off to the mountains, or to join some politically irrelevant Rejectionist sect, you better be ready to make it a life-long commitment. If you just went up and left one party to join another tendency or group, your former comrades with think you've betrayed them, and will label you a traitor. And once you're affiliated with someone, be ready and prepared to denounce every other Left sect, and get denounced back. Filipinos prize loyalty, and to betray that loyalty is social suicide.

Secondly, most theoretical debates in Philippine politics, at least those not limited to small academic circles, tend to follow the movement, and not determine it, and often this following of the movement means entrenching theory in the movement's contradictions. The Filipino's fear of social reprisal means this happens quite often. Too often do armchair intellectuals concentrate on 'pure theory' instead of understanding that very often theoretical polemics are beholden to movement and not the other way around. I'll give you an example: the way abstract universalities are often imposed upon the theoretical debates during the Russian Revolution. (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/07/the-lies-we-tell-about-lenin/) Remember this if you ever get into the old Rejectionist/Reaffermist polemics. Politics in the Philippines is violent. Radical politics even more so. This violence is inescapable. Don't lose your head over some empty "theoretical" dispute.

Lastly, above all else, including theory, learn the history of the Philippine Left. It is a long and rich history; the Left here is the oldest in Southeast Asia. Understand that Communists are violent radicals, with the guillotine just right around the corner. If you do decide to join up with anyone, do not harbor any illusions.

[MathAndMarx26]

You darn dastardly Trotskyite wreckers got to him first!!1! *shakes fist*

First of all, the culture here in the Philippines is completely different than it is in the West. These people who are recommending you to just go up and join some organization come from a background where your previous political affiliations won't come back to haunt you, where 'mass politics' is done in an ivory tower. If you join up with an organization, whether it be if you've decided to divorce yourself from your friends and family to run off to the mountains, or to join some politically irrelevant Rejectionist sect, you better be ready to make it a life-long commitment. If you just went up and left one party to join another tendency or group, your former comrades with think you've betrayed them, and will label you a traitor. And once you're affiliated with someone, be ready and prepared to denounce every other Left sect, and get denounced back. Filipinos prize loyalty, and to betray that loyalty is social suicide.

Secondly, most theoretical debates in Philippine politics, at least those not limited to small academic circles, tend to follow the movement, and not determine it, and often this following of the movement means entrenching theory in the movement's contradictions. The Filipino's fear of social reprisal means this happens quite often. Too often do armchair intellectuals concentrate on 'pure theory' instead of understanding that very often theoretical polemics are beholden to movement and not the other way around. I'll give you an example: [the-lies-we-tell-about-lenin the way abstract universalities are often imposed upon the theoretical debates during the Russian Revolution.] Remember this if you ever get into the old Rejectionist/Reaffermist polemics. Politics in the Philippines is violent. Radical politics even more so. This violence is inescapable. Don't lose your head over some empty "theoretical" dispute.

Lastly, above all else, including theory, learn the history of the Philippine Left. It is a long and rich history; the Left here is the oldest in Southeast Asia. Understand that Communists are violent radicals, with the guillotine just right around the corner. If you do decide to join up with anyone, do not harbor any illusions.

Thank you for this new "closer to home" perspective. As a matter of fact, just a few days ago, I hesitated to push through with trying to help out the IMT because I realized that I wasn't 100% a M-L-Trotskyist, although I find the articles and posts on their website very educational and informative.

As for the dominant nationalistic radical left groups, the way I understand it, they are still essentially fighting for a "National-Democratic Revolution (with a socialist perspective)", similar to a Nationalistic Bourgeoisie Democratic Revolution, or even National Socialism.This is based on their analysis that the main problems of the country are Bureaucrat Capitalism (corruption), Imperialism, and Semi-Feudalism. I am not fully convinced that this is still applicable in the present context, and more than that, I really hope that this National-Democratic "stage" is unnecessary in the long-term goal of achieving socialism/communism.

I have been gradually studying the Philippine Left, and I also have been trying to follow the present situation of the Left groups, along with ideas, actions, and events that they are involved in. And I cannot say that I fully agree with the radical nationalism and patriotism that they seem to be so inclined towards. Although given the colonized and fragmented context of the country, I can see why this is understandable and maybe even necessary. As for the violence, I guess its an obvious reaction to the violent repression by the present system. But are you also talking about violence within the Philippine Left? I am not fully aware of current killings over theoretical disputes...

And still, the pressing need to do something concrete is still there, but it would be great to clear things out (in my head at least) before "doing something."

Please correct me if anything I said is false, I really do still have a lot to learn.

I can see in your signature that you are not a big fan of Anarchism...
But just so you know where I'm coming from, my ideas and political orientations lean towards and are influenced by Marxism (of course), Trotskyism, Anarchism, Anarcho/Libertarian Communism, and Left Communism. (A merry confused mix, I know.)