Can right-wingers and left-wingers talk?

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

So i was in class today, reading up on some politics in Canada, primarily the scandal going on in Ottawa.

When a guy behind me asks me about politics, and how I feel. I stated that i'm totally a left-winger, and will never change. He and his friend are both right-wingers, who even went as far as to say that Bush was RIGHT for going into Iraq. OMG! I seriously wanted to throw a fit...

I dunno, its like i cant have a constructed discussion with them because my emotions are overwhelming on the topic. They were defending America, while for years I've studied how bad the country is...

Does anyone else find this difficult to even fathom the thought that Bush is actually doing some 'good' in Iraq? He's killed thousands there...how can I say 'that's ok'?

Maybe I'm just weird...haha, jks.

[Pete]

The scandal is bullshit, by the way, I think it shows the problem with our current system, and capitalist 'democracy' in general.

I think the rightwingers should have a chance to reply

*to oi*

[Hoppe]

He's killed thousands there...how can I say 'that's ok'?

So did Hussein, that's the problem (though I am not trying to make any justification here).

[Al Creed]

I'm living proof that Right Wingers and Left Wingers CAN get along.

I know a few,...no, ALOT of right wingers (some more Red Tory, some more extreme Right), and all it does is make for great debate. SOmetimes they have valid points, SOMETIMES, but the trick is to be able to counter those points with your own.

I know a Guy who was pro-Iraq War (which I am not, most definately not), Pro-Life, Pro-Right Wing (A member of the Former Canadian Alliance Party), and as Religious as they come, but that never stopped us from discussion. The trick is, to find common ground, to get along, and when debating, stick to the issue, and not to go on personal attack.

[Comrade Ceausescu]

Al creed is completly right on this issue.


So did Hussein, that's the problem

Yeah Saddam committed human rights abuses,but the most serious ones were years ago. Anyway,since when have we been concerned about human rights?If we were, we would go to war with the Saudi's,who have overall a worse human rights record then Saddam.Anyway,Saddam's grave mistakes are no doubtly hyped up to make them look worse then they really were.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

yeah Al Creed you've gotta good point there...

Its so hard not to though...like, defending Bush?! LOL! It's like defending hitler here man, haha jk.

I've debated constantly thru high school and elementary. I guess its juss cuz i'm new to the political debates. Before it'd be about major issues, like abortion, or depletion of rainforests, etc...

[Xvall]

I guess in Canada, supporting Bush must be really uncommon. Hell, a ton of people here support Bush.

[Commie Girl]

This was on the front page of Canada's premiere news magazine!


So yes, Bush is not popular here at all! :D

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 05:47 PM
So did Hussein, that's the problem (though I am not trying to make any justification here).
So let's see: they supported him at the beginning, so they also have some of that blood in their hands too. And that's not why they went there.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)[email protected] 14 2004, 02:43 AM
So let's see: they supported him at the beginning, so they also have some of that blood in their hands too. And that's not why they went there.
I can come up with several plausible reasons for the invasion. But still in the end you're stuck with your the same dilemma what to do with the people.

But to go back to the original post. I have experienced little difficulties with the other spectrum except in the cases were the opponent lacked knowledge or basic debating skills.

[Valishin]

When a guy behind me asks me about politics, and how I feel. I stated that i'm totally a left-winger, and will never change. He and his friend are both right-wingers, who even went as far as to say that Bush was RIGHT for going into Iraq. OMG! I seriously wanted to throw a fit...
Why? They were right.


They were defending America, while for years I've studied how bad the country is...Maybe that's your problem, you may have a preconcieved notion and you have been trying to make everything fit into that view instead of forming your view based upon reality.


Does anyone else find this difficult to even fathom the thought that Bush is actually doing some 'good' in Iraq? He's killed thousands there...how can I say 'that's ok'?
Because you generally have to break a few eggs to make an omlete. Ask yourself this, and be honest. If it had been Gore or Clinton at the helm making the same decisions would you be so upset?

It seems to me that what upsets liberals so much about Bush isn't what he does so much that he is generally the polar opposite of what they view as best. So everytime he does something it scares the bejesus out of them that he might actually be successful which of course errodes years of work their side has done to turn this country into a social democracy. Which of course the Bush supporters view as making progress in the right direction.

It is also important to realize that conservatives very intentially try to govern based on logic not based on emotions. Not all pull it off but they try. This is why they often seem like heartless bastards. It isn't that they don't care, it is that they try not to let the emotional side get in the way of decision making.



Please don't take any of that as being an insult too you, just trying to give you some things to think about.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 01:46 PM
I can come up with several plausible reasons for the invasion.
...which didn't apply to the actual war.


But still in the end you're stuck with your the same dilemma what to do with the people.

I don't understand this words. Are you talking to me or to another person?

[Lardlad95]

I have plenty of Right Wing friends and plenty left wing friends. It's all just politics anyway. I mean I sometimes argue with them but for the most part it is irrelevant.

[Hoppe]

...which didn't apply to the actual war.

Oil is also a plausible reason, and a rational one. But what the actual reason was, I can only guess.


I don't understand this words. Are you talking to me or to another person?

Yes, to you. What I meant to say is that though you can be against the war, in the end you still have to ask yourself whether you would rather let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive dictator or not. If you see someone who gets beaten up you would probably feel a moral urge to help him, instead of walking away.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 06:07 PM
Yes, to you. What I meant to say is that though you can be against the war, in the end you still have to ask yourself whether you would rather let the Iraqi people live under an oppressive dictator or not. If you see someone who gets beaten up you would probably feel a moral urge to help him, instead of walking away.
Well, in this particular case the fact that Saddam was a dictator doesn't matter because after all the moment where the war happened, the possible real reason of the war, and the fact that they are also responsible for Saddam's dictatorship. And I don't think they are having the time of their lives right now, with a foreign army controlling them and living in absolute poverty.

[Hoppe]

And I don't think they are having the time of their lives right now, with a foreign army controlling them and living in absolute poverty.

Do you have a statistically significant, unbiased survey claiming that the majority would rather have Saddam?


Well, in this particular case the fact that Saddam was a dictator doesn't matter

It most certainly does matter whether he is a dictator or a democratically elected president.

[Knowledge 6 6 6]

Personally speaking, I dont think anyone will ever change my stance on what I think of Bush, or of the atrocities done by America in the past...

Which include installing Burnham (a horrible dictator) into my ancestors' country of Guyana, and dividing the country in the process.

I guess that's why I have such an emotional connection to my stance on this...who knows.